View Full Version : Stupidest @$%&ing thing I've seen all week...Don't point guns at your associates.
QuietShootr
09-11-09, 17:41
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,549421,00.html
I said this was stupid the first time I saw some assholes doing it, and now that someone is dead because of it, it's even ****ing dumber.
Guess what, assholes, it isn't a BALLS thing...it's a BRAINS thing. If you're ****ing stupid enough to play games like this, you deserve it when your brains are on the floor.
What a stupid ****ing waste of life.
Goddamn.
If you're ****ing stupid enough to play games like this, you deserve it when your brains are on the floor.
As I understood the article... the person with their brains on the floor really aren't allowed a choice. The guy with the gun points it at you and pulls the trigger, what are you supposed to do? Saying "no" won't stop a bullet. I may have misunderstood the game, but I'd think the person with the pistol would be the instigator right?
Now, as for the guy holding the gun... yeah, I agree... that's kinda silly.
Sounds like murder to me, with a poorly conceived cover story. A few years ago, almost the exact same thing happened between two Army Officers. Idiots through and through. I had a S1 POS point his 9mm at me in country in our company cp "sup ni*^&r, staight ghansta yo"
Before I was able to even react to him or his comment my PL took him down in one swift movement, and in another movement stuck him with an Article 15.
QuietShootr
09-11-09, 17:55
As I understood the article... the person with their brains on the floor really aren't allowed a choice. The guy with the gun points it at you and pulls the trigger, what are you supposed to do? Saying "no" won't stop a bullet. I may have misunderstood the game, but I'd think the person with the pistol would be the instigator right?
Now, as for the guy holding the gun... yeah, I agree... that's kinda silly.
A game requires two people to play. A clear statement of "If you EVER point a weapon at me, you'd better ****ing fire it." should be sufficient to stop this shit in its tracks.
God, this shit pisses me off.
And before you criticize, I'm an 11B. I know about gut checks, but this particular one just throws me into a blind rage.
QuietShootr
09-11-09, 17:55
Sounds like murder to me, with a poorly conceived cover story. A few years ago, almost the exact same thing happened between two Army Officers. Idiots through and through. I had a S1 POS point his 9mm at me in country in our company cp "sup ni*^&r, staight ghansta yo"
Before I was able to even react to him or his comment my PL took him down in one swift movement, and in another movement stuck him with an Article 15.
Good. I hope an asskicking was delivered as well.
Quiet,
Not criticizing you at all. I have no right to, I'm just a civilian, but I'd think this game is kind of one sided being that there's only one person with a weapon. Either way, it does seem like a waste of life.
QuietShootr
09-11-09, 18:01
Quite,
Not questioning you at all. I have no right to, I'm just a civilian, but I'd think this game is kind of one sided being that there's only one person with a weapon. Either way, it does seem like a waste of life.
You have a right to question everyone up to and including Jesus, if you think you see something stupid.
These things are done by mutual consent. That's the part I think is utterly ****ed up.
sandman99and9
09-11-09, 19:52
Absolutely stupid !! I can't believe this shit is going on. I saw a guy get muzzle swept bad at ft Benning and the other guy butt stroked him in the face. No article 15 for that one but no one ever trusted him again. What a total waste no matter who it is.
s.m.
John_Wayne777
09-11-09, 21:23
As I understood the article... the person with their brains on the floor really aren't allowed a choice. The guy with the gun points it at you and pulls the trigger, what are you supposed to do? Saying "no" won't stop a bullet. I may have misunderstood the game, but I'd think the person with the pistol would be the instigator right?
Yes...and if you fly out of the bunk and promise to re-arrange his dentistry if he doesn't put the weapon away, odds are the game will stop.
Further, if everybody had that reaction the game would stop.
Now that a good Marine had his brains blown out for no good reason, perhaps this form of stupidity will stop. It's one thing to have a man die in combat...it's another to have him die because some dumbass deliberately points a gun at his head and pulls the trigger.
SeriousStudent
09-11-09, 21:53
I was on a Med float a long time ago, when a PFC not long out of grunt school decided to point his musket at someone and yell "Bang!"
I was in the same compartment, and was nearly knocked down by the flying bodies tackling the moron and taking his weapon away from him. And yes, they really can put you on bread and water aboard ship, if the Captain so desires, and the Bn CO wishes it.
I am pretty amazed at this new "game" that seems to be making it's way through the FMF. Like JW said, it's one thing to take your chances with the bad guys from some third-world shithole. But to die because some lance cooley from East Toadsuck, Arkansas dropped a hammer on you boggles my mind.
Prayers sent for the fallen Marine and his family. :(
QuietShootr
09-11-09, 22:07
Yes...and if you fly out of the bunk and promise to re-arrange his dentistry if he doesn't put the weapon away, odds are the game will stop.
Further, if everybody had that reaction the game would stop.
Now that a good Marine had his brains blown out for no good reason, perhaps this form of stupidity will stop. It's one thing to have a man die in combat...it's another to have him die because some dumbass deliberately points a gun at his head and pulls the trigger.
Exactly what I meant and was too pissed off to clearly articulate.
RogerinTPA
09-11-09, 22:34
Incidents like this makes me ponder the question "How dumb can a mother****er be???" What a ****ing waste of life. You'd think that macho/bravado shit, especially with weapons, would have been dealt with by now. It was clearly murder, 2nd degree. Those ****ers who "flag" others for laughs, should also have their brains splattered all over the deck or at least placed in a coma. Stupid shit like this pisses me off to no end.
Smuckatelli
09-11-09, 22:49
It's murder, no way around it.....they can call it a game or whatever...peel the onion and it is murder.
Every Marine is taught the 4 safety rules, it doesn't matter what MOS. Forget the condition codes, that idiot can't get past the:
"Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot"
He was murdered, it doesn't matter if he wanted to play the game or it was a unit function or he got up on the wrong side of the rack. The person that pulled the trigger is responsible.
i think leadership generally takes it for granted that youngins will practice weapon safety.. i mean, they're ****in GUNS afterall.. everyone knows not to point guns at people.
i remember doing dime-washer drills and using the other guy's iris as my "target." new guys have absolutely no respect for firearms. it took me seeing a few "unloaded" guns discharging before i really started caring about muzzle discipline and general gun safety.
parishioner
09-12-09, 01:15
Wow. Now hes dead. Real cool asshole.
Everyday he is in the brig they should have someone come "play the game" with him.
Why is a "Game" like this allowed to be played at all? Surly some one of a higher rank knows this stupid ass shit is happening, and should have gotten it already under control. If they knew and didn't, then they too should be held accountable for that shit.
Stupid is, as stupid does.
Yes...and if you fly out of the bunk and promise to re-arrange his dentistry if he doesn't put the weapon away, odds are the game will stop.
Further, if everybody had that reaction the game would stop.
Now that a good Marine had his brains blown out for no good reason, perhaps this form of stupidity will stop. It's one thing to have a man die in combat...it's another to have him die because some dumbass deliberately points a gun at his head and pulls the trigger.
Please, no one get me wrong. If I was brave enough to have joined the military, I'd have been in his (the guy holding the gun) face. I just think that there's a bit of "machismo" associated with being in harms way. I think they almost have to believe that they can't die. If they don't, how can you make it day to day over there?
Again, please realize this is from my perspective, a civilian who respects what the brave men and women of our military do every day. I have a friend, who came back from over there that I knew better than any other friend. His muzzle discipline was out the fraking window when he got back. We went out shooting groundhogs one day and his answer was the same every stinking time he swept someone with the muzzle... "I ain't on the trigger, trust me." I had a very difficult time dealing with him because he was a bit, how shall I say it... easy to set off. He used to be the epitome of safety. He dealt with a lot, and I wasn't about to correct him in that venue. When we were back in the truck and all the guns were put away, I talked with him about it, and he got angry, like I didn't trust him. It had nothing to do with trust, it had everything to do with safety in my book, which we'd been taught since we were 5. Being in that type of environment changed his point of view far more that the childhood of shooting together ever could. We're still friends, but we don't go shooting together anymore.
I didn't mean that people shouldn't question wrong doings, but there's a level of respect that I have for those that have been there done that, that I can never experience. I just think that it's silly to ever point a gun at someone you "trust" regardless of how much they may or may not trust you. Friend or Foe right? You just don't point weapons at a friend.
I guess I can see the "trust issue" side of it, but there's plenty of better ways to establish trust in ones friends. Again, from a person who's never "been there, done that".
I may have taken the so called "game" wrong. I just wouldn't point a gun at someone I called a friend, regardless of what was going on. Perhaps why I consider myself one of the thankful rather than the thankless. God bless our troops.
What a waste.
How come a NCO didn't stomp this guys guts out the first time this was tried?
What a shitty way to leave this world...R.I.P Lance Cpl. Patrick Malone
...Now that a good Marine had his brains blown out for no good reason, perhaps this form of stupidity will stop. ...
Sadly I doubt that it will.
The Marine Corps Times reported this week that the game had similar deadly end in 2007, when a Kentucky Army National Guardsman shot and killed a fellow soldier.
The guardsman who fired the fatal shot later said he learned to play from other members of his unit while deployed to Iraq in 2006.
RogerinTPA
09-12-09, 11:14
Not only is this a complete failure of the chain of command, but the complete failure in the duty and trust of every member in that platoon, to allow a game like this to exist in the first place.
Once someone got shot, right then and there is where if all else, the trust issue just went flying out the frickin window at mock 2! (however you spell the speed of sound) I guess the answer is "**** No I Don't Trust You! You Dumb ****tard!"
man....my understanding about the marines is that trust is something you should not have to prove and is built in from day one.
this is just sad...
SeriousStudent
09-12-09, 11:55
Not only is this a complete failure of the chain of command, but the complete failure in the duty and trust of every member in that platoon, to allow a game like this to exist in the first place.
Exactly. As a squad leader, my job was to accomplish the mission while maximizing the welfare of my Marines.
And in my squad, and my platoon, anyone could throw the "Bullshit" flag. This was one of those occasions.
I can bet you that a platoon sergeant and platoon leader got relieved over this. And they should have. If I ever got wind that someone of my squad was even thinking of pulling a stunt like this, he would have been pissing blood for a week.
But that was back in the old days, when they issued us muskets and cutlasses to repel boarders. I don't know if they still do "wall to wall counseling" anymore.
I can't even think of writing that letter home to his parents. :(
John_Wayne777
09-12-09, 11:55
Please, no one get me wrong. If I was brave enough to have joined the military, I'd have been in his (the guy holding the gun) face. I just think that there's a bit of "machismo" associated with being in harms way. I think they almost have to believe that they can't die. If they don't, how can you make it day to day over there?
Evacuating teammates who were wounded/killed in the line of duty should have been sufficient to convince them that they aren't bullet proof.
Again, please realize this is from my perspective, a civilian who respects what the brave men and women of our military do every day. I have a friend, who came back from over there that I knew better than any other friend. His muzzle discipline was out the fraking window when he got back. We went out shooting groundhogs one day and his answer was the same every stinking time he swept someone with the muzzle... "I ain't on the trigger, trust me." I had a very difficult time dealing with him because he was a bit, how shall I say it... easy to set off.
You should have just walked away.
"Dude, I love you like a brother, but I'm not going to tolerate being muzzle swept."
I guess I can see the "trust issue" side of it, but there's plenty of better ways to establish trust in ones friends. Again, from a person who's never "been there, done that".
There are a lot of guys I would trust to have my back if something bad was going down. A number of them post on this forum. I trust them to that level because I've been on the line with them and they have yet to point a gun at me. Somebody who sticks a gun in my face for giggles goes on the NFE list pretty quick.
I may have taken the so called "game" wrong. I just wouldn't point a gun at someone I called a friend, regardless of what was going on.
...and that's the correct mindset. It's a reality that sometimes in a dynamic situation muzzle sweeps do happen...but that doesn't mean that having your muzzle covering someone is no big deal. Safety procedures are layered for a reason, namely that at any one moment something could go wrong or someone can have a brain fart, and then somebody ends up dead.
The mindset that it's OK to walk up to somebody and say "You trust me, right?" then point a gun at their face and pull the trigger is ****ed up. I don't care *who* says anything different or what their pedigree may be, it's still ****ed up. It kills people.
This kind of diseased thinking is precisely what a number of us were talking about in the downrange photographer thread. If you watched the echo chamber there was a whole lot said about being a "warrior" and "trust" and a bunch of other bullshit to cover the core reality that they had a guy standing downrange during live fire to get photos.
"But he was XXX in the military and has all sorts of combat experience!!"
So what. It was still stupid.
Those who have spent enough time around the military or law enforcement have seen some pretty stupid things in regards to handling deadly weapons. Poor training is a contributing factor, as is lack of accountability...but a larger part is people thinking that they are too high speed to worry about stuff like where their weapon is pointed.
That this "game" is going on is a sign that there are some deficiencies in the command structure in some units. Officers and NCOs should go absolutely apeshit if they ever found out anyone was playing this "game" in their unit.
"i trusted you until you pointed a ****in gun at me."
That is really stupid.
:confused:
SW-Shooter
09-12-09, 13:51
We lost two soldiers due the stupidity of testosterone. We lost two warriors because the NCO's failed to do their job. I blame the Non-Commissioned Officers above and beyond anything else. It seems that this stupid game had happened before, as a former NCO, I would have beaten it into my squads head that that sort of idiocy would not be tolerated.
RogerinTPA
09-12-09, 16:42
We lost two soldiers due the stupidity of testosterone. We lost two warriors because the NCO's failed to do their job. I blame the Non-Commissioned Officers above and beyond anything else. It seems that this stupid game had happened before, as a former NCO, I would have beaten it into my squads head that that sort of idiocy would not be tolerated.
I blame the Commander and the Platoon Sargent for the following lack of leadership:
-Not instilling in their men, the purpose and reason behind being "muzzle aware".
-Reminding the men constantly, of safe firearms handling in and outside the wire.
-Not instilling and reinforcing, the notion of looking out for one another, whether in combat or not. "My Brother's keeper" if you will. It's their duty to look out for each other.
-Giving them "cart blanch", in rendering a SOB unconscious if found in violation of the 4 rules, THEN reporting it to the Chain of Command.
-Reinforce the notion that unsafe firearms handling will not be tolerated.
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