View Full Version : Night Sights -- Front sight only?
Just wondering if anyone has much of a preference for night sights that have tritium in front sight only vs front and rear?
This is for a Glock 19 that my brother just bought. Most of my guns came with the 3 dot set up, and that seems to be the easiest to find. My Glock 23 came with trijicon 3 dots that I like, but I keep wondering if the rear dots are more of just a distraction than anything. I guess I could always shoot in the dark and sharpie them out.
Ideas, comments?
After trying it, I like it. It does help me focus on the front sight.
I took some black electrical tape and cut it carefully to match the shape of my rear sight, and covered up the rear dots. Try that for a few range trips before doing anything not easily reversible (like dripping paint into the holes or something).
I very much prefer the single front tritium with a plain black rear like the 10-8, yost, or Heinie. I find the Novaks, even without vials/dots, to be too busy.
NCPatrolAR
02-12-07, 15:49
I have never been a real fan of the front sight only set-up. For me, I prefer front and rear tritium inserts (in a straight 8 format). I saw the beneifts to this when doing a pistol class down in GA last year. Those with the front and rear sights had the most accuarte hits at greater distances than people running just a front sight or no night sights at all.
I think it is mainly an issue of personal preference.
I know of a few people, a couple of which are instructors I highly respect, who are fans of black rear sights and plain white dot front sights, with a tritium dot if you just have to. I am undecided on the issue myself, having been a long time 3 tritium dot shooter. That said, I am beginning to think there may be some merit to the idea.
My personal preference is to use a non-tritium rear. I have used both the XS Big Dots we make here at the shop and three dot sight systems, and I lean towards our big dot tritium front with our express rear sight in a white line only configuration. I think having the tritium in the rear sights can create visual confusion (especially three dots of the same color). YMMV.
Joe
I prefer either tritium just in the front, or either a bar or a single dot in the rear. Three dot sights confuse me in low light, especially when using a flashlight.
I actually shoot better in the dark in terms of accuracy, so I don't think having a plain rear sight is holding me back any.
A single front tritium dot is also my prefered system. I thought I weirdwhen I first did this many years ago with my duty USP .45 and it seems that many have come to the same conclusion that this works well, especially in conjunction with a weapon mounted light or good flashlight technique.
I have two G19s. One is set up with Meprolights both front and rear. My second G19 I set up with an Ameriglo tritium front and left the factory sight in the rear. I really like the set up of the second gun. Daylight is very easy with doing the "ball in the bucket" concept of the Glock sight. In low light the front tritium allows me to focus on that alone.
imho a front night sight only setup focuses on CQB and ignores those times when you have the time to line up the sights to sqeeze off a longer low light shot.
I like Heinie flat black for Glocks or Yobos on my 1911s with a tritium front.
I just put a set of AmeriGlo operator sights on my G21, they are custom made for CGR and have no white rings on either of the three tritium vials, and the rear is opened up a little. So during the day they look just like a 1911 style sight, and at night of course you have the dots.
If I had pics I would post em, but no camera.
need funds for ammo, you'all know the story...lol...
Erick Gelhaus
02-14-07, 11:45
I switched to this format 4-5 years ago. I like it and it works for me. Having only one "illuminated" area simplifies & speeds things up for me.
Erick
imho a front night sight only setup focuses on CQB and ignores those times when you have the time to line up the sights to sqeeze off a longer low light shot.
How far can you see/identify a target that you'd need to shoot in low light with a pistol? Are there situations where you can see well enough to i.d. the target, can't see your rear sight, AND can't use a flashlight?
Bolt_Overide
02-14-07, 17:47
Tritium front and plain black rear are absolutely the best choice in my opinion.
How far can you see/identify a target that you'd need to shoot in low light with a pistol? Are there situations where you can see well enough to i.d. the target, can't see your rear sight, AND can't use a flashlight?
flashlights malfunction.
What is this mythical situation wherein you're firing from complete blackness, into complete blackness, but are certain of your target and what's beyond it, have to fire to save your life, and the target is so far distant that you have to line up the front and rear sights and need tritium vials in both in order to be able to accomplish this feat, all with only a handgun by your side and a malfunctioning flashlight?
What is this mythical situation wherein you're firing from complete blackness, into complete blackness, but are certain of your target and what's beyond it, have to fire to save your life, and the target is so far distant that you have to line up the front and rear sights and need tritium vials in both in order to be able to accomplish this feat, all with only a handgun by your side and a malfunctioning flashlight?
Never said complete blackness. Low light. This is not 10-8 where only operators or LE or military or whatever can post comments. This is not a I've been to carbine class so only I can steer conversation or post my opinions and insights to situations. So no need to condecend. Having two vials in my rear is my choice. Yes, I've trained in a dark former shoot house lined up at the 7 yard line with low light conditions. Not complete blackness. Not with my eyes closed. Lining up the sight is something you need to figure out. Not all vials in a straight eight or three dot match up with your poa; you could shoot high or low, depending on the sights and handgun. I feel I need to know this. ymmv.
f.2's points are not without merit. Sights are a very personal preference and there are really no negatives to using 3-dot tritium sights if you have shot them at night and know how they line up for POA/POI. I only use black rears and tritium fronts because it's my preference, not because it's the end-all be-all best way to go.
Flashlights rarely malfunction. But they run out of batteries cause the tailcap gets pushed or twisted all the time. If I had a buck for every time I pulled out the G2 off my assaulters belt and it had gotten turned on in the holster I'd have at least enough for a case of expensive beer. I'm glad I carry 4 lights.
Never said complete blackness. Low light. This is not 10-8 where only operators or LE or military or whatever can post comments. This is not a I've been to carbine class so only I can steer conversation or post my opinions and insights to situations. So no need to condecend.
Perhaps not, but it is important to know who you're talking to and what their experience level is. I'm curious to know how much experience you have shooting both with and without rear vials in low, or no, light situations.
Yes, I've trained in a dark former shoot house lined up at the 7 yard line with low light conditions.
I'm unclear on what this sentence means.
Not complete blackness. Not with my eyes closed. Lining up the sight is something you need to figure out. Not all vials in a straight eight or three dot match up with your poa; you could shoot high or low, depending on the sights and handgun. I feel I need to know this. ymmv.
You implied that those of us that chose not to have rear tritium were somehow leaving out the possibility of a long distance night shot, and I still, despite your response, can't come up with a situation where this might happen.
fthere are really no negatives to using 3-dot tritium sights
I disagree. Just as f.2 says he finds he is more accurate at night with them, I find that I am less accurate in all shooting situations with them. They are too close to the same focal plane with the front sight and it distracts the eye from focusing where it should; on the front sight. The problem just compounds itself at night.
You implied that those of us that chose not to have rear tritium were somehow leaving out the possibility of a long distance night shot, and I still, despite your response, can't come up with a situation where this might happen.
That's cool. I still feel the need exists to have the ability to line up your sights should the situation arise, even though a lack of imagination, such as the most infamous instances of lack of imagination in recent history, Pearl Harbor, 9/11, and I'm not trying to slam you here, cannot [could not] come up with a situation where they would be needed. The best minds tried but failed. But now we have radar (and use it). Now we have airport security. Getting ot here, but laugh all you want at the TSA. Fact remains there has not been a repeat and many instances, some we are not privy to, some that made headlines, of thwarted attacks.
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How much experience do you have shooting at low/no light with or without rear illumination on your sights? At a range or at a bad guy who is shooting back?
Are you LE or military? Not taking a dig at you, I'm just curious what you base your opinions off of.
You can disagree with me all you want and at the end of the day what works for you is all that matters, but don't call this guy out just cause he doesn't like the same sights as you. If I'm not on a flat range I generally only shoot at night by the nature of my employment, and we shoot quite a bit. Most guys shoot standard Glock factory night sights on the 19s or 3-dot Novaks on the 1911s. I hate Novaks so I pony up for my own Heinies. I think most of them could put up a good argument that they are every bit as accurate and as fast as anyone in the world with their inferior 3-dot sights.
Since when is asking someone their experience/qualifications "calling them out"? The guy stated his opinion and I'm asking what he's basing that opinion on. A question that, incidentally, still hasn't been answered.
I've stated why I prefer the sights the way I do, and would like to actually hear experience-based opinions on why people like their setup. I really can't understand why that is such an emotional issue.
I like it because I find most 3-dot sights have too narrow of a rear notch for some reason and there is not enough material to open them up. Also, they rarely line up the same for me IE the tritium dots are staggered when the sights are aligned. It's a pain to learn two sight pictures. I shot 150,000 rounds out of my 2 work pistols since last February, so I have my pet peeves on a gun figured out. Mostly that Novak rear sights suck and Glock mag releases are too small. I formed these at Mid-South, Blackwater, Gryphon Group, numerous service schools, team training, and 6 years of doing this in the real world in conventional and SOF units...as a weapons guy.
You didn't answer my question any more than he answered yours. What practical experience leads you to form your opinions?
Since when is asking someone their experience/qualifications "calling them out"? The guy stated his opinion and I'm asking what he's basing that opinion on. A question that, incidentally, still hasn't been answered.
Not LE. Retired USN, 79-04, but you already knew that from my profile. Was not a trigger puller, but I did pull a trigger. 1.5 years in firearm related employment (NNSA / DOE) with FA M4s, 9mm then .40 S&W 226s, 203s, M60s then M240B and D models. Yeah, not a SPO though, supervisor / LT. Qualified / certified Firearms Instructor Course (FIC), Advanced Weapons Course (AWC).
How much experience do you have shooting at low/no light with or without rear illumination on your sights? At a range or at a bad guy who is shooting back?
Are you LE or military? Not taking a dig at you, I'm just curious what you base your opinions off of.
Not military or LE. I've not shot at people in the daylight or in lowlight. That's part of the reason I'm interested in the experiences of others that lead them to their opinions. Obviously, if someone has shot someone at long distance in the dark and they can explain why they felt that having rear vials aided them in making the shot, I'm very interested in hearing that. At the same time, if it's nothing more than an intellectual excercise then I'd like to know that too.
I have shot in approximately 10 dedicated low-light matches, and have had one class with a night of low-light shooting. We also do matches in the evenings once a month where, while the range lights are on, the ambient light is greatly diminished. I've shot no less than 40 of these matches, and probably more like 60.
I've run both Glocks and 1911s both with and without night sights of any kind and with and without rear vials. I have found that both durring daylight and low-light shooting the dots on the rear sight are a distraction. If it gets too dark and the tritium is the same color front and rear the problem is compounded.
I'm not saying my experience is all that great, but it's mine and it is what it is. Without knowing the experience of someone else I can'te evaluate whether their opinion is valuable to me or not.
Novak rear sights suck
I agree with you there brother. I hadn't spent alot of dedicated continuous trigger time behind them until last week when I put 1200+ rounds through an Ed Brown 1911 with a two-dot Novak rear and single dot front. I can't wait to get that rear off there and get a 10-8 or Yost sight to replace it.
You didn't answer my question any more than he answered yours. What practical experience leads you to form your opinions?
I just did. Post #27 above.
Not LE. Retired USN, 79-04, but you already knew that from my profile. Was not a trigger puller, but I did pull a trigger. 1.5 years in firearm related employment (NNSA / DOE) with FA M4s, 9mm then .40 S&W 226s, 203s, M60s then M240B and D models. Yeah, not a SPO though, supervisor / LT. Qualified / certified Firearms Instructor Course (FIC), Advanced Weapons Course (AWC).
Without trying to offend, what in that experience led you to the opinion you have about night sights? What other experiences have you had that lead you to the opinion you have?
John_Wayne777
02-15-07, 11:17
Personally I find 3 dot arrangements are often not ideal for me....
One thing I haven't tried is different colored dots. I know some makers allow you to choose colors for the night sight dots and perhaps this would help in distinguishing which sights are which.
I find that in low light with 3 green dots out there my eyes are drawn to the rear sights instead of the front sight. Maybe different colors would change that....
Anybody ever try that arrangement?
Personally I find 3 dot arrangements are often not ideal for me....
One thing I haven't tried is different colored dots. I know some makers allow you to choose colors for the night sight dots and perhaps this would help in distinguishing which sights are which.
I find that in low light with 3 green dots out there my eyes are drawn to the rear sights instead of the front sight. Maybe different colors would change that....
Anybody ever try that arrangement?
I have a Glock 17 with Meprolight night sights, green front and yellow rear.
Though I haven't done a whole lot of low-light shooting with this gun, I do think the arrangement works better for me than all green. The rears seem more subtle (dimmer maybe?) and my eye is more easily drawn to the front sight.
YMMV.
MOVING ON,
Does anyone know if trijicon or someone offers a good wide notched rear sight with no tritium that matches up with a tritium front sight for a Glock? Primarily for carry use?
I'm thinking maybe a plane Heinie rear and tritium front?
Thanks
MOVING ON,
Does anyone know if trijicon or someone offers a good wide notched rear sight with no tritium that matches up with a tritium front sight for a Glock? Primarily for carry use?
I'm thinking maybe a plane Heinie rear and tritium front?
Thanks
Check out the Warren Tacticals. (http://www.ishot-inc.com/store2/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=45) They are available in front only, dot on dot, and 3-dot versions.
MOVING ON,
Does anyone know if trijicon or someone offers a good wide notched rear sight with no tritium that matches up with a tritium front sight for a Glock? Primarily for carry use?
I'm thinking maybe a plane Heinie rear and tritium front?
Thanks
http://www.yost-bonitz.com/products/glocksight/
You can open up these to whatever width you desire but they're at .140 already. And they maintain the profile of factory sights.
Without trying to offend, what in that experience led you to the opinion you have about night sights? What other experiences have you had that lead you to the opinion you have?
To keep the thread on topic I will pm you an answer.
As far as needing tritium in the rear for longer/tighter shots goes . . . I don't think I miss it. I've fired my pistols enough that I know by now if the rear is aligned well enough with the front by feel and I'll bet most people here do too.
The only time I consciously use my rear sight (in conjunction with a hard focus on the front) is when I'm shooting at 25-50 yards in NRA Action Pistol matches or on those rare occasions when we have shots of that distance in USPSA matches. Other than that, I'm focused on the front sight.
I'll bet most people could shoot pretty well with just a front sight (and no rear sight) as long as they had a consistent presentation and hold.
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