Rifle Kits from M&A Parts Inc.? [Archive]

eBandit

09-12-09, 13:14

Anyone ever bought any rifle kits from http://www.mapartsinc.com/

I have been looking at getting my first AR or building one, i seen these being sold at a gun show today and the guy said some are assembled by RRA, some by LMT and other by Sabre or Daniel defense i think it was. They all have M4 feedramps and some with chrome lined barrels. The kits range from $500 to about $545 for what i was looking at and then all i need to get is a stripped lower. I guess they are the same kits sold on their website.

But is this option not getting me the same gun I would if I bought strait t from a manufacturer or bought a kit elsewhere. The price seems a little cheap so I didn't know if I would get a decent rifle for basic use (plinking and home defense).

Should I consider or stay away and keep looking?

Thanks!

Iraqgunz

09-12-09, 13:23

I am a little leary of their stuff. No direct experience with them, but I seem to remember seeing some stuff posted here by others.

eBandit

09-12-09, 13:33

Thanks, I was myself and being new to the AR market I was afraid to end up with something and find out I messed up by trying to save a couple hundred.

In one hand I say, well the uppers are supposed to be assembled by a reg. brand name, but I don't know if he has proof of that or not. They claim they are guaranteed, but I didn't buy one at the gun show yet because I had doubts and they are in Ill. while I'm in OH.

On the other hand I tell myself, if the price sounds too good then you get what you pay for.

jhurt

09-12-09, 14:23

They don't all have M4 feed ramps. Even if what your are getting is supposed to.

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn2/jjhhuurrtt/DSC00775.jpg

Read about my personal experience here:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=24297&highlight=parts

And here:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=22696

bkb0000

09-12-09, 14:29

i keep seeing a LOT of these "made by LMT" uppers. a local guy was selling a couple dozen of them, and it was sort of like pulling teeth trying to get him to fess up that none of the parts are actually LMT, that LMT just receives the parts and attaches the barrel to the upper receiver.. nothing more than that. which doesn't really make sense to me.

it also doesn't add any value to the weapon, even if LMT is "assembling" them. anybody can assemble these things, it's the manufacturing thats important.

eBandit

09-12-09, 15:12

Thanks everyone, the guy at the gunshop selling these for or from M&A said the parts were not made by The brands that assembled them but also claimed that RRA and the others didn't make any parts in the guns those brands sell.

I seen on their website they claim they do not go to gun shows but have individual contractors sell their parts and kits at gun shows. I just thought that sounded funny.

The ones I picked up and looked at did have the m4 feedramps though.

Im starting to think I did the right thing to not buy and go home and post for some advice from people who know much more than I do. I was worried I would end up with something that breaks or should I ever need to sell or want to in order to upgrade later on, I would have gun that I don't know who made the parts. they just said they are parts made from military contractors that make military parts.

By the time I bought or ordered a good stripped lower I wouldn't have saved hardly anything over buying a new del-ton and only a couple hundred over getting a Bushmaster, Smith & Wesson M&P 15 or Stag.

I have been hoping to find a good brand for a decent price locally on something used. Just have yet to find that right deal.

bart305

09-12-09, 21:42

I've got one, a pretty decent plinker. But you get what you pay for. End use matters a whole lot as to the value. Good luck.

uranus

09-12-09, 22:02

Im starting to think I did the right thing to not buy and go home and post for some advice from people who know much more than I do.

Keep in mind that you have asked a question on a forum, where the members are concerned about the best products available, about the wisdom of purchasing the cheapest product available. You won't save any money, in the long run (or maybe even the short run) by buying a low price/low quality product, IMO. You can buy a top quality carbine from G&R or another vendor on this site. If you buy a carbine because you found a bargain, you might not be getting such a bargain. If I knew then what I know now, when I started buying firearms many years ago, I would have avoided a lot of purchases and saved a lot of money. When you buy a quality product, and the correct product, you only need to buy it once. Also, it is a lot easier to buy firearms than it is to sell firearms (without taking a loss), and I don't think that you will save any money buying a cheap carbine with the plan to sell it to upgrade later. In the end, you will spend more money, I believe.

Regardless, welcome to m4carbine, and let us know when you buy that beautiful BCM, LMT, or Colt.

NB: I would never buy a carbine from the "local" gun store, unless the gun store was also a recognized specialist (and recognized by other people than those that are employed by and shop at the gun store).

bkb0000

09-12-09, 22:05

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=16M4_RIFLE&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3Dbcm%26searchstart%3D9%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html

this is the best value in AR15s anywhere on the planet right now- you get EVERYTHING you need, all in one package, and even a bunch of junk you don't want.

simply the best deal around.

eta: oh yea, and it's unbeatable quality.. most importantly.

.45fmjoe

09-14-09, 15:59

M4tographer

09-14-09, 18:50

Anyway, I would stay away from all the "kit gun" manufacturers and save a little more money.

I picked up a 'complete' lower recently (Mega Gator receiver, strictly for the receiver as it was part of a trade) that was outfitted with Model One Sales 'kit'. Besides the springs being junk, the detent pins were atrocious and the takedown pins, hammer, and trigger were like potmetal (MIM?). The main part for me was the sear...which made me gasp when I took it out. PLEASE spend a few bucks more and get quality parts!

M1S on top, Stag on bottom

http://philmarek.smugmug.com/photos/646124470_6kgsD-L.jpg

WTF, over? See that 'groove' all the way around...I'm assuming from a poor MIM process:

http://philmarek.smugmug.com/photos/646124525_Aqrsb-L.jpg

"Groove" goes all the way around. Check out the contact surface where it grabs the hammer:

http://philmarek.smugmug.com/photos/646124413_VQpFc-L.jpg

crittergetter

09-14-09, 20:42

I bought a kit from MAparts over a year ago to finish a stripped lower I had. It has a 14.5 in. bbl. with permanent flash hider and M4 feed ramps. I don't have what you'd call extensive experience with AR rifles, but I've been around a few of them. I was very pleased with the quality of the parts in the kit I received. They did short me a disconnector spring, but after a phone call, they shipped me one along with an assortment of other springs and pins. It has been very reliable rifle, never a fail to feed or fail to fire, and is fairly accurate to boot. A MOA gun at least, and it will put down a coyote in a hurry.:cool: I'm not speaking for every kit they sell, but I am a very satisfied customer and would buy from them again.:)

fdxpilot

09-14-09, 20:54

NB: I would never buy a carbine from the "local" gun store, unless the gun store was also a recognized specialist (and recognized by other people than those that are employed by and shop at the gun store).

I hope you mean assembled by a "local" store. As long as it's one of the recognized quality brands, I have no problem buying locally if price and availability is right. In fact, my LMT came from the local shop. While I had to sort through a wall of overpriced Bushies and DPMS guns, they had two LMT Defenders. I got the one that had the upgraded charging handle (apparently, it had just come in) and walked out with it, a nylon case and a couple boxes of M193 for a price I was happy with.

eBandit

09-14-09, 20:56

I just want to clarify something, you did not "seen on their website..." Seen is not the past tense of "see." You saw on their website..."

Anyway, I would stay away from all the "kit gun" manufacturers and save a little more money.

I don't check my grammar in forums. :D

I wasn't aware that my forums posts were being graded. :rolleyes:

Back to the topic- I was thinking of ordering either a Spikes tactical upper with Adams Arms gas Piston kit installed and Adams Arms once piece bolt. Or just getting the entire rifle from them, maybe.

Dunderway

09-14-09, 21:15

I was really tempted to buy one of their kits as a back up/loner when I read that they were chambered and assembled by LMT. Then I read their "All your questions answered here" section, and thought that my eyes were going to be permanently rolled into the back of my head. Then I read the reviews here.

eBandit

09-18-09, 18:07

Thanks everyone. I decided to stay away from that kit. I'm going with better quality parts.

Heavy Metal

09-18-09, 18:47

I picked up a 'complete' lower recently (Mega Gator receiver, strictly for the receiver as it was part of a trade) that was outfitted with Model One Sales 'kit'. Besides the springs being junk, the detent pins were atrocious and the takedown pins, hammer, and trigger were like potmetal (MIM?). The main part for me was the sear...which made me gasp when I took it out. PLEASE spend a few bucks more and get quality parts!

M1S on top, Stag on bottom

http://philmarek.smugmug.com/photos/646124470_6kgsD-L.jpg

WTF, over? See that 'groove' all the way around...I'm assuming from a poor MIM process:

http://philmarek.smugmug.com/photos/646124525_Aqrsb-L.jpg

"Groove" goes all the way around. Check out the contact surface where it grabs the hammer:

http://philmarek.smugmug.com/photos/646124413_VQpFc-L.jpg

Not MIM, that is stamping flash that was not removed. Teh AR disconnector is a stamping. The hammer and trigger are castings as is the Bolt Hold Open. Always has been this way.

Quib

09-18-09, 19:07

Not MIM, that is stamping flash that was not removed. Teh AR disconnector is a stamping. The hammer and trigger are castings as is the Bolt Hold Open. Always has been this way.

Exactly. That’s flash from the stamping process.

bkb0000

09-18-09, 20:18

i thought stamped parts were stamped through- so you end up with a radius on one side and a sharp edge on the other.. stamping from both sides seems extremely inefficient

Quib

09-18-09, 21:00

i thought stamped parts were stamped through- so you end up with a radius on one side and a sharp edge on the other.. stamping from both sides seems extremely inefficient

I could be wrong, but I don’t think that disconnector was stamped from both sides. Punched from sheet steel might be a better term. It does appear to have an excessive amount of flash though, and doesn’t appear to have been cleaned up at all before being parked.

With the demand placed on manufacturers these days, I think this lack of QC has been pretty common.

M4tographer

09-18-09, 21:08

I could be wrong, but I don’t think that disconnector was stamped from both sides. Punched from sheet steel might be a better term. It does appear to have an excessive amount of flash though, and doesn’t appear to have been cleaned up at all before being parked.

With the demand placed on manufacturers these days, I think this lack of QC has been pretty common.

I just realized you can't see in my photos, but that's a groove (valley?) all the way around the disconnector. It's not just a single ledge like it was stamped from one side.

Quib

09-18-09, 21:11

I just realized you can't see in my photos, but that's a groove (valley?) all the way around the disconnector. It's not just a single ledge like it was stamped from one side.

Is it? From the shadows, it appears to be flash material that was bent over during the stamping process. Hard to tell sometimes without actually having the part in ones hands.

Quib

09-18-09, 21:20

This part indicated below, is what led me to believe was material folded over and sheared off during the stamping process.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/646124525_Aqrsb-L.jpg

bkb0000

09-18-09, 21:24

I just realized you can't see in my photos, but that's a groove (valley?) all the way around the disconnector. It's not just a single ledge like it was stamped from one side.

if you send it to me i can have it tested to find out exactly what it is.. i'll even send it back, with a little burn on one side.

i have a couple barrels that are going in for GC-MS analysis in the next week or two (as soon as i can get away from work), i can take it in at the same time if we're all really curious.

i really don't think it's a stamping.. stamping "flash" is generally only on one side, where it was stamped through the sheet- this gas got to be either MIM or cast. or alien technology that'll release a plague and kill all mankind if it's nature is revealed.

Quib

09-18-09, 21:32

i really don't think it's a stamping.. stamping "flash" is generally only on one side, where it was stamped through the sheet- this gas got to be either MIM or cast.

I’m not going to claim to be anything close to a manufacturing process expert, but is there a procedure that basically pinches a part from sheet material, verses stamping?

Heavy Metal

09-18-09, 21:47

I see no reason to MIM a disconnector. It would literally cost more than one made by the stamping process and produce a part that would not endure any length of time. The hook is a highly stressed area. I have seen over-hardened disconnectors shatter like glass at the hook.

bkb0000

09-18-09, 21:48

I’m not going to claim to be anything close to a manufacturing process expert, but is there a procedure that basically pinches a part from sheet material, verses stamping?

could be- i'm also no expert, but i do know that flat stamping is an extremely efficient wat to make a lot of small, flat parts very quickly and cheaply. pinching the part would more closely resemble forging than stamping

a MIM disconnector would be such a piece of shit... hah.

M4tographer

09-18-09, 23:20

I just looked at it again and it's really strange. The other side of the 'gap' in it isn't as pronounced and looks more like it was ground down for the finish. There is a rounded side like it was stamped, but the rough portions are what baffle me. It's almost as if the stamp didn't go all the way through and the rest of it broke off. At any rate, the contact portions and the edge being at a bevel aren't real comforting.

bkb, I'll send it to ya but I don't expect it back. :D I'm sure not going to use it.

bkb0000

09-19-09, 00:44