View Full Version : Crossroads of the West Phoenix Gun Show Rant
Went to the Crossroads of the West gun show today in Phoenix and was more than just a little dismayed. If anyone else has been there lately I am interested in comments and observations.
1. The 14.00 entry is a little steep in my opinion, not to mention the 6 or 7.00 for parking.
2. There were some decent ammo deals, I picked up a 500 rd. case of Winchester Super Unleaded 147gr. to run through my suppressor for 128.00.
3. There were quite a few tatooed up gang-banger looking types walking around and buying ammo. Alot of the ones I saw were wearing shorts and tank-tops to show off their ink.
4. Prices on AR's and AK's were still very high with a few exceptions. I saw a few Ruger SR556's trying to get sold for over 1500.00 up to 1750.00 dollars.
5. One of the most annoying things was a company with a large table called GUNTEC USA. They were selling nothing but Chinese knock-off crap. Everything from fake Tango Down QD foregrips to shitty optics and rail systems. I even saw some knock-off KAC foregrips as well.
They weren't the only vendor selling knock-off shit, but they were certainly one of the largest. I could find very little in the way of real deal optics and rail systems.
6. One of the more interesting highlights was a guy who had some Glock parts, to include a few OEM slides and barrels. I was hoping to locate a G17 upper complete and he had some. The first one I picked up and examined had a crack in the slide near the ejection port. I politely asked if he had another one. When he asked why I told him that the one in my hand was cracked. He looked at it and then handed me another complete one. That one too also had a crack that was more than visible. I promptly put it down and told him it was cracked as well.
He mumbled something and then put both of them back on the table. I shook my head and walked away.
All in all this was not one of the better shows that I have seen.
Sounds about par for me. Gun shows are no longer worth my time or money.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-13-09, 02:10
3. There were quite a few tatooed up gang-banger looking types walking around and buying ammo. Alot of the ones I saw were wearing shorts and tank-tops to show off their ink.
I think it is a lot more rebelious nowadays not to have tatoos. Everyone and their nanny has tatoos now. They could be your dentist.
I don't know why I go to gun shows. Ammo supply sucks, and you have to fill out 4473s, so there is not time savings. Maybe I'll go back when ammo is plentiful and I can walk out with a couple thousand rounds at a good price, but till then, the internet has so many more good deals its not funny.
Last month I did see a Krag with a 1913 rail and a crappy scope on it. Silly bastards.
I have tattoos also, and have no problem with them. But, I also know the difference between shop tattoos and prison tats. It was also the manner of dress as well.
There was one vendor that had large quantities of ammo and the prices weren't terrible. I believe he was selling XM193 for 380.00 a case. They had large stocks of 9mm, .40 and .45 ammo.
I think it is a lot more rebelious nowadays not to have tatoos. Everyone and their nanny has tatoos now. They could be your dentist.
I don't know why I go to gun shows. Ammo supply sucks, and you have to fill out 4473s, so there is not time savings. Maybe I'll go back when ammo is plentiful and I can walk out with a couple thousand rounds at a good price, but till then, the internet has so many more good deals its not funny.
Last month I did see a Krag with a 1913 rail and a crappy scope on it. Silly bastards.
Glad I passed this time around. I'm holding off for the December show.
Sounds about par for me. Gun shows are no longer worth my time or money.
+1 here.
Starting in the mid 90's I went to 17 shows a year in the Phoenix area.
Starting around 2002 I began hearing people say they found gun shows a waste of time.
I can remember thinking how dumb a thing that was to say.
I went to my last show in 2006.
:cool:
I have tattoos also, and have no problem with them. But, I also know the difference between shop tattoos and prison tats. It was also the manner of dress as well.
When we have to start explaining these types of seemingly obvious things, the argument becomes mute.
As far as the guy trying to sell the cracked uppers, simply unbelievable. Must be the bad economy.
I have not been overly impressed with the last few Phoenix shows I've gone to. No better then the ones here in California in terms of parts, prices, ammo.
Now the big show in December is another story, but it's also a zoo.
I miss the old Pomona show. :(
sounds like every gun show i've been to for the last 5 years up in my neck of the woods, Gunz.. aside from one or two perhipheral and probably temporary parts, the sole reason i've gone, and the only thing i've bought, was ammo, for the same amount of time.
totally worthless.. the last couple times i've gone, one of the busiest tables has been a chinese knockoff "tactical gear" table.. they're the only people in the entire place selling any kind of assortment of AR parts/accessories, so it's where people who don't know any better go. it helps explain why most of the ARs i see at local ranges are so often decked out in UTG/CAA/Mako.
last time i went, there werent even any "good" deals on ammo. i picked up some more training TAP, but xm193 was at like $450 a case.. i'm just not into paying anything over $399 anymore, and even thats way too much. wolf was something like $350/1000...
pretty ****in retarded. gun shows, once upon a time, were really exciting.. they only came around twice a year, and i'd be practically fidgeting in anticipation... AR parts and accessories, CHEAP bulk ammo, beer, great conversation, buddies, etc. those days are long gone over.
I have not been to a gun show in like 25+ years :)
sounds like I am not missing much ?
The only show I still go to is SAR in December. Lots of neat things to look at. Occassionly there is a good deal to be had but shows are not what they used to be. I too miss the Pomona show.
variablebinary
09-13-09, 18:32
Sounds about par for me. Gun shows are no longer worth my time or money.
Same here in Utah. The Crossroads show here usually has Colt 6920's for $2000 and Bushmaster's for $1500.
I usually go to see if there are deals on mags, or other gear not usually available at local dealers.
VooDoo6Actual
09-13-09, 18:46
IG,
CHECK.
I was at the last one and same observations.
Obama's AWB perception coupled with "FUD" make people spend more than ever and people are capitalizing on it on the entry fee, gun prices, commie cheapo crap guns etc.
The wannabe tough guys Gang bangers don't get it and NEVER will. See it all the time.
While I share your frustrations and rants I still crack up at people buying Platinum, Gold, Silver etc alia w/o any idea of that LEAD will get all that and more..
But it's easier for us w/o the competition if it came down to that. :D
It's not going to change (and YES I'm sure) just avoid it and keep your circle of people smaller....:p
FWIW, I have same rants.....
bushmasterar15
09-14-09, 01:16
I haven't been to a show in like 3 years. Don't think I miss much as most of my shopping is done online. I would like to go to a show but most of the entry fees suck.
Gun Shows were a family bonding thing for all the men/boys in my family and we looked forward to them like Christmas as a kid and thru college. They usually had more REAL things to buy than fakes and knock offs but these days now its mostly fakes and knockoffs with some REAL stuff hear and there. Miss the old days:(
pleaforwar
09-14-09, 02:42
I went to a Crossroads show back in November, it was a frigging bonanza and a lot of shady dealers trying to maximize the screwing of the customer. Luckily, I just went there to get a good deal for a BCG, and Young Manufacturing was present and took care of me.
I was there on Saturday from opening until around 11:00. Seemed pretty much a typical Crossroads Show. Picked up a couple Mosin-Nagants (Russian 1946-dated M44 and a Hungarian 1953-dated M44) for the collection.
I'll agree that parking + entry fee is getting a bit excessive.
Business_Casual
09-14-09, 09:17
the argument becomes mute.
It also becomes moot, but that's no longer important.
If they have prison/gang tats, then are they using straw buyers to avoid the criminal check? That will get gunshows shut down fast.
M_P
You mean you don't like beef jerky and porcelain figurines?!?! Most gun shows have turned into flea markets.
It also becomes moot, but that's no longer important.
Damn spellcheck...or maybe it was me...:eek:
Business_Casual
09-14-09, 10:19
:D
M_P
I haven't gone to a show in about two years. Last show I went to had plenty of junk, but I sold what I brought for what I was looking to get. I don't go any longer. I can usually find what I need online, so I don't see the point.
MarshallDodge
09-14-09, 10:47
I lost my love for gun shows about 15 years ago.
I go to a show about once every other year or so just to watch the gang bangers try and keep their pants up while carrying a crate of 7.62 ammo. It makes me giggle.:D
Overall, pricing has been so far out of whack at gun shows for many years that when I do go, I rarely buy anything, just like to see what's new-ish.
decodeddiesel
09-14-09, 12:09
You mean you don't like beef jerky and porcelain figurines?!?! Most gun shows have turned into flea markets.
That's what most of the shows in Denver have become. Beenie Babies, jerky of all varieties, coin collectors, and figurines have come to dominate the big top circus Denver calls the Tanner and Crossroads gun shows.
I don't go anymore because there have been something like 3 AD/NDs in the past year alone at the various shows here and frankly I don't want to get shot while wondering why someone is charging $1200 for a 900 round case of XM193 on stripper clips which is sitting on the same table as an ammo assortment that looks strikingly like what the local Walmarts used to have only at 3x the price.
The cross roads of the west gun show I went to this year had the same shit going on. The same guy with guntech commie knock off crap and people selling every thing from toys to crystal glasses. And the same $14.00 entry fee with $3.00 parking. I hardly go to a gun show anymore unless its the Claude Hall local one that has mostly licensed dealers I know and trust.
6. One of the more interesting highlights was a guy who had some Glock parts, to include a few OEM slides and barrels. I was hoping to locate a G17 upper complete and he had some. The first one I picked up and examined had a crack in the slide near the ejection port. I politely asked if he had another one. When he asked why I told him that the one in my hand was cracked. He looked at it and then handed me another complete one. That one too also had a crack that was more than visible. I promptly put it down and told him it was cracked as well.
He mumbled something and then put both of them back on the table. I shook my head and walked away.
This just confirms what I have read, and experienced. Namely, that factory reject parts never die, they just end up on tables in gunshows.
These weren't factory rejects. These had been previously fired (I saw the carbon). I doubt very seriously Glock knows anything about it and surely they don't sanction it.
This just confirms what I have read, and experienced. Namely, that factory reject parts never die, they just end up on tables in gunshows.
I can't speak to the AZ shows, but in general gun shows are a mixed bag. The entrance and parking fees are high. To me, it's entertainment. It's kind of like going out to the movies or the game except you get to handle items you otherwise would only see online.
When I go, I walk around the show for a bit and sometimes get to see items I want. There are some deals sprinkled in with a bunch of stuff that is overpriced or flat-out garbage. The issue is whether the item there is a good deal on is an item you want. There have been many times where I've walked out without buying a single thing beyond my admission ticket. Sometimes I would have been better off hanging around the house, drinking a beer and other times I enjoy seeing shooters I know at the show so it becomes a social thing.
Regarding the shady dealers, the buyer beware mentality exists strongly in the gun community. The knockoff gear and optics is disappointing but if enough people vote with their dollars, these guys would disappear. The problem is that, as a group, gun owners are cheap so they'll buy something that they think will be good enough without understanding the difference in quality.
It's not hard to understand that a person may not want to spend $600 on an Aimpoint T-1 but would be willing to spend $80 on something that looks similar and attempts to do the same thing. Some people have to learn for themselves that buying the knockoff is taking cash and putting a match to it.
Yep, about the only one worth going to around here is the Wannemacher show in Tulsa, if you don't mind the crowds. Gotta get there early to pick up on deals.
I can't speak to the AZ shows, but in general gun shows are a mixed bag. The entrance and parking fees are high. To me, it's entertainment. It's kind of like going out to the movies or the game except you get to handle items you otherwise would only see online.
When I go, I walk around the show for a bit and sometimes get to see items I want. There are some deals sprinkled in with a bunch of stuff that is overpriced or flat-out garbage. The issue is whether the item there is a good deal on is an item you want. There have been many times where I've walked out without buying a single thing beyond my admission ticket. Sometimes I would have been better off hanging around the house, drinking a beer and other times I enjoy seeing shooters I know at the show so it becomes a social thing.
Regarding the shady dealers, the buyer beware mentality exists strongly in the gun community. The knockoff gear and optics is disappointing but if enough people vote with their dollars, these guys would disappear. The problem is that, as a group, gun owners are cheap so they'll buy something that they think will be good enough without understanding the difference in quality.
It's not hard to understand that a person may not want to spend $600 on an Aimpoint T-1 but would be willing to spend $80 on something that looks similar and attempts to do the same thing. Some people have to learn for themselves that buying the knockoff is taking cash and putting a match to it.
spoken like a true gun enthusiast, take the good with the bad. it's all about being around what we love and enjoy. I enjoy going to the shows meeting up with fellow shooters/ friends, looking at firearms, checking out items in person rather than looking at some picture online, poking fun at all the yahoo's. when you go to the shows enough times you know who to deal with and who to stay away from. those who complain about dropping 20-30 bucks on parking/ admission maybe you outa take up another sport/ hobby, hell 30 bucks is a drop in the bucket in this sport/ hobby! there's not a whole lot to do anymore for less than 30 bucks.
I have dropped PLENTY of money on guns and ammo over the last few years. My comment about the parking and entry has to do with the quality or lack thereof of the show in question.
spoken like a true gun enthusiast, take the good with the bad. it's all about being around what we love and enjoy. I enjoy going to the shows meeting up with fellow shooters/ friends, looking at firearms, checking out items in person rather than looking at some picture online, poking fun at all the yahoo's. when you go to the shows enough times you know who to deal with and who to stay away from. those who complain about dropping 20-30 bucks on parking/ admission maybe you outa take up another sport/ hobby, hell 30 bucks is a drop in the bucket in this sport/ hobby! there's not a whole lot to do anymore for less than 30 bucks.
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