View Full Version : need advice re: neighborhood altercation and deescalation- long
I *think* I know what I need to do, but I want to run this by the peanut gallery and see if you have any tips or thoughts about any possible course of action.
I have a "neighbor" who lives about 150' from my lot, kitty corner across the street and in a small eye-sore of an apartment building. I do not know his name or which unit he occupies in the building (there are 4 or 6 units, not sure). I have never met him, and I can't honestly say that I have seen him before.
Anywho- as I am getting into my car this AM, the man approached me in the street and asked me if I knew how ****ing annoying my ****ing dog is with all of his barking. I was startled by his sudden appearance (he emerged from around a blind corner to my 6 o'clock while I was loading the backseat of my car, so he was able to close about 50' of the gap before I got me head back on a swivel...) and his tone, but also by his assertion. Here's the deal- not sugar-coated to make me look good or anything:
1- I have a 6mo Aussie. It's a dog, and he DOES bark from time to time, BUT- he barks pretty infrequently with a few exceptions. He is an indoor dog mostly, and people are home with him and keeping him engaged almost all the time. Also, as anybody who knows herding dogs will tell you, most Aussies are not vocal or hard herders. They are quiet and rely on a hard eye. Mine does too.
2- I have 4 other neighbors, 2 to my immediate west, and 2 directly across the street, who also have dogs. All 4 have multiple dogs, and all but 1 bark much more frequently than mine. None of them are what I would call "problem" barkers, though. In point of fact, the dog the neighbor heard this AM was my neighbors' spaniel mix, who sometimes bays at sirens. I like all of these neighbors, and I was not about to push one of them under the bus for something like this, especially since...
3- the man who confronted me this AM (we'll call him "Dick" to avoid confusion) called animal control last week on my dog, and at least twice on other recent occasions on other folks' dogs. I have noticed that in only one case has he reported the correct dog. It seems as though he is willing to call on any barking that last longer than a minute or 2. This is not a stretch at all, either. When these local dogs get started barking it does not last. People are home with them all the time and for the most part they get it under control within a few minutes.
4- Dick has confronted at least one other neighbor, on mulitple occasions. Once for barking dogs (totally out of line since the dogs were literally not on the property at the time) and once for operating lawn care equipment such as a leafblower etc. Dick claims to be a nurse who works graves, and noise seems to really set him off.
My assessment breaks down like this- the man has a job and lifestyle that requires daytime sleeping. He seems to be willing to take things to a confrontational place right off the bat in order to get his way. IMO though he is crossing into the realm of harassment. He is extremely rude (this was our first meeting- he has not made any polite effort to seek recourse) and confrontational*, he is indiscriminant about who he "targets" for complaint, and he is unreasonable about the threshold he sets for what bothers him.
I am preparing for an ongoing campaign by this man. I will in good faith continue to limit my dogs barking, but I am not excited about having a neighborhood feud going on with this guy. I also don't want to feel like I have to force my dog to tiptoe around his own yard or anything.
I made sure that the dog has his vaccinations up to date. I got his license this morning, even though local law doesn't require it for a few more months. I also called animal control myself immediately afterwards and proactively invited them to conduct an inspection of my property to verify that the dog is in fact an indoor dog and that he is well-bahaved and all of that. They declined, suggesting that it was unneccessary. The gal I spoke to actually knows me from an occasion where I reported an illicit backyard Boxer puppy mill on another block. They used my lot to establish visual contact with the property in question in that case, and she recalled that our lot is very dog friendly and that we are good people, as it were.
What else should I do to handle this? So far, I am planning on documenting our encounter and any that follow. I am thinking of asking my neighbor(s) to do the same, and to find out what other interaction that they may have had with our friend Dick. Assuming that this happens again, when and how should I get other authorities involved? Any other tactics to consider? I am not interested in doing anything bad to this guy, or to his property, or whatever. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
* "confrontational"= Dick did not actually threaten violence, and he did not appear to be armed. But his body language, tone, and choice of words would have made any streetwise LEO go to DEFCON2. Raised voice, rude demeanor, multiple f-bombs, and a physical stance identical to the "**** You! I'm an anteater!" pose seen on the interwebs of late. He also made it clear that he will continue to call on me again, and I assume he will continue to do so even if it's not my dog barking.
What shoudl you do? Document your exchanges with Dick and then make sure your dog doesn't bark excessively. If he steps on your property tell him to get off. If he doesn't call the po-po. Be aware and dont let him get that close to you. Sounds like the typical neighborhood crank that is all talk and no walk.
Preferred User
09-15-09, 16:57
Unfortunately neighbors can be real *&%$#s. I have one next door. All you can do is make sure you make nice with Animal Care & Control, make nice with your community action Officer (or whatever your local LE calls them), let them know what is going on with the neighbor. Document the issues. Unless literally push comes to shove there is not much that can be done.
Now you can imagine what you want, but practically you are just cursed with a jerk.
So far, I am planning on documenting our encounter and any that follow. I am thinking of asking my neighbor(s) to do the same, and to find out what other interaction that they may have had with our friend Dick. Assuming that this happens again, when and how should I get other authorities involved? Any other tactics to consider? I am not interested in doing anything bad to this guy, or to his property, or whatever. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Yes...document, document, document any and every way possible. Maybe even use your cell phone video camera (assuming you may have one) to covertly record his actions should he ever try it again.
Get everyone else he is harassing to step up for the greater good and do the same. The more who speak out against him, the faster the authorities will realize who the real ass is. Once his credibility is shot, his complaints will only serve to further discredit him.
The world does not evolve around this man's sleep schedule, nor should you.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-15-09, 21:48
Bark at him.
landrvrnut22
09-15-09, 22:06
Document, document, document, then if he confronts you again, call the police. Have all your neighbors do the same. Make sure you get a copy of the police report, and send it to the landlord. The landlord will get fed up, and ask him to leave, or evict him.
At work, we have had similar situations. When they disturb neighbors, or other tenants, we dcoument, then evict.
00leland00
09-15-09, 22:11
Sounds like you performed well on the first encounter. On the next, throw him a set of ear plugs and tell him to 'suck it.' Then to get the hell off your property.
Bark at him.
this.
I seem to be a lot more of a dick than most guys around here, which isn't necessarily a good thing.. but if your dog isn't a problem and he's just taking his divorce out on you, i think i'd probably make it clear to him that you are not a good source of emotional venting. words like "step foot on my property again and i'll assist you off," completely failing to address his complaint. it's my experience that most assholes are assholes because they get away with it, and if they cant get away with it with you, they'll just go be assholes somewhere else. which is all you're looking for.
or it might start a fistfight... either way, someone coming up in front of my house dropping F-bombs in hearing of my family is getting nothing but hostility from me, even if we need to scrap. i swear like a drunken sailor, but not around my family, and you better not either.
That really takes balls. The guy sleeps during the day and expects the world to change because of him, someone needs to inform him that noise during the day is normal. I think telling him to get ear plugs is a good idea.
I know some dogs bark all the time and can be totally annoying, but this doesnt sound like the case with any of the dogs there. Most of the people around here are happy people have dogs, keeps the neighborhood safer. My nextdoor neighbor is real happy my dog was in the yard the day their house was getting broken into or I would never have noticed. Even though it took the police 20 mins to get here, they caught the guys coming out of the house and recovered everything. If it wasnt for my dog they would have cleaned out their house all day long and no one would have noticed.
Wow some people just don't get it.
Barking dogs annoy the crap out of me. But I have respect for my neighbors and always approach it in a neighborly way to start out with. Only once has it had to go beyond that and even then things were quickly smoothed over and the situation was fixed.
In this case I agree with the above. Bark at him!
geminidglocker
09-16-09, 07:32
Sorry to hear about your shitbag neighbor. I just hate people like that. It took me a year and a half to buy a house, because my #1 criteria was no neighbors. Sure other people live on my road, but there like 1000ft up the road, with woods separating us for the most part. Turns out they are decent neighbors after all. They like to shoot guns in there back yards too. Man, I could never go back to city life, you could'nt pay me to do it.
Don't let this guy get the best of ya'. Sounds like he runs his trap to anyone and everyone. Eventually he'll "Bark up the wrong tree" and get his ass kicked. But good on you for seeking out advice before taking action. Perhaps you should make a paper copy of this thread, incase you ever have to testify in court. This thread would show that you are a man of great self-restraint, who prefers peace over violence.
Good luck.
I would begin by documenting his behavior and checking up on the Noise Ordinance laws of your town.
Seek advice from local Law Enforcement persons. If this guy continues to make calls to Law Enforcement they will eventually catch on that he is just a trouble maker.
You have Rights Too.
If that is his "lifestyle" he needs to move out into the country. We had a guy riding a 4 wheeler up in here one Sunday afternoon. It is a county road but it dead ends. Most people don't just rip up and down a dead end road unless they live on it around here.
After the 3rd trip, I met them at the mail box and explained that Dad worked night shift and if the wanted to ride there 4 wheeler they needed to stay on the main road. They were nice about it and didn't come back.
There are ways around noise in the day time, but to be honest they blew a well outside my bedroom window when I worked night shift and I didn't know they were there.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-16-09, 08:48
Maybe my first suggestion was too confrontational, may I suggest a slightly less direct idea:
Big-ass Windchime
first of all, do you know how annoying dogs' barking is? dog owners tend not to see this but to some people it's as irritating as the crap music blasting from punks' cars.
and second, he's probably not singling you out as you've said that there are other dogs that bark but that's the problem. he doesn't care which dog it is, he just wants the barking to stop. you can't blame him really.
if you really want to deescalate this thing you might say to the guy, "hey, I know my dog has disturbed you before and I'm sorry. He's still a puppy and I'm working on that. But he's not the only dog out here that barks and I understand how annoying that can be. I'm sorry and I'll try to do a better job of taking care of my dog in the future."
instead of trying to treat this like a 'tactical' situation, how about you treat it like a human situation and see where that gets you...
first of all, do you know how annoying dogs' barking is? dog owners tend not to see this but to some people it's as irritating as the crap music blasting from punks' cars.
and second, he's probably not singling you out as you've said that there are other dogs that bark but that's the problem. he doesn't care which dog it is, he just wants the barking to stop. you can't blame him really.
if you really want to deescalate this thing you might say to the guy, "hey, I know my dog has disturbed you before and I'm sorry. He's still a puppy and I'm working on that. But he's not the only dog out here that barks and I understand how annoying that can be. I'm sorry and I'll try to do a better job of taking care of my dog in the future."
instead of trying to treat this like a 'tactical' situation, how about you treat it like a human situation and see where that gets you...
You are misunderstanding the situation, likely due to a failure to read the OP first post thoroughly.
And to reward the man's expletive laced tirade with so much courtesy would only lead him to classify the OP as a coward.
first of all, do you know how annoying dogs' barking is? dog owners tend not to see this but to some people it's as irritating as the crap music blasting from punks' cars.
and second, he's probably not singling you out as you've said that there are other dogs that bark but that's the problem. he doesn't care which dog it is, he just wants the barking to stop. you can't blame him really.
if you really want to deescalate this thing you might say to the guy, "hey, I know my dog has disturbed you before and I'm sorry. He's still a puppy and I'm working on that. But he's not the only dog out here that barks and I understand how annoying that can be. I'm sorry and I'll try to do a better job of taking care of my dog in the future."
instead of trying to treat this like a 'tactical' situation, how about you treat it like a human situation and see where that gets you...
And if Dick had approached in a different manner that probably would have been an acceptable response. I'm as nice to people as they are to me. If you start off as an ass then I'm not going to try to kill you with kindness.
The guy sounds like a garden variety neighborhood asshole to me simply because of how he approached the issue. He went straight to "asshole mode" instead of more diplomatically informing you that your dog was disturbing him. No reason for him to be such a prick right off the bat.
You might want to look at the state and local laws on making false reports, etc. Send your dog away for a week and see if he calls YOU in due to the neighbors' dogs. That could be fun.:D
You are misunderstanding the situation, likely due to a failure to read the OP first post thoroughly.
And to reward the man's expletive laced tirade with so much courtesy would only lead him to classify the OP as a coward.
I read it. but I also don't feel the need to be a hard throbbing dick back to someone if they've got a potentially legitimate beef and I might be part of the problem.
he did say he wanted to deescalate it...
And if Dick had approached in a different manner that probably would have been an acceptable response. I'm as nice to people as they are to me. If you start off as an ass then I'm not going to try to kill you with kindness.
true. but every day in life we got decisions to make. you just gotta ask yourself - is this the hill I want to die on?...
Gutshot John
09-16-09, 10:48
First of all any "legitimate beef" was discredited when he decided to act like a dick. This is no longer about the dogs this is about threatening behavior. You approach me like this the first time, and I'm not even going to listen to you...nor would anyone else. He clearly has a pattern of abusive behavior and the issue is how to stay firmly on the right side of the law.
Second, having worked graves in EMS, I have ZERO sympathy. The rest of the world doesn't come to a stop because of his schedule. Buy some freakin ear plugs and a bottle melatonin and suck it up. That said no hospital I've ever worked at keeps anyone on nights permanently unless the person wants it that way.
Third, he's getting himself worked up and that's really the reason he can't sleep. If the dogs barked that incessantly, his brain would start tuning it out as anyone who has lived under an airport landing pattern can tell you. After two days you don't even hear it anymore. Clearly they're not barking incessantly, but he still expects them not to bark at all. Completely unreasonable.
Fourth, dogs bark to keep assholes away from their territory. Remind him that the neighborhood dogs keep his house safe even if he doesn't have one.
Fifth, say nothing to escalate, simply smile and walk away, if he persists, call the cops. In fact I would call the cops anyway to simply start establishing a documented history. You might also ask how to "maximize your legal compliance".
Sixth...be very very careful about your dogs. Don't let them run free and keep an eye out if they're in the yard. This asshole may attempt to poison them. That can escalate into violence very quickly. I would meet with the other dog owners in the neighborhood TODAY and discuss the issue and how to stay on the proper side of the law. You have to watch each other's back.
true. but every day in life we got decisions to make. you just gotta ask yourself - is this the hill I want to die on?...
i can remember times in my life when, filled with righteous indignation, i backed off a situation because i had a moment of concern over the other guy's stability.. these are the only, few, cowardly moments of my life, and i regret them immensely.
i have a few scars, my knuckles have been broken a few times and are probably arthritic for it, and three of my upper front teeth are man-made. every bit of it worth it- because i've never faced the same guy twice, once its come to blows.
like i said- if assholes cant get away with being assholes at you, they'll go be assholes somewhere else. assholes like it easy- so dont be easy.
we're all basing our answers based on the OPs presentation of the situation- maybe he's lying and his dog is a ****in bark factory from hell, and any one of use would have already shot it by now. but that's not the story we've been presented with.. in the OP's version, which seems like it's probably very close to reality, nobody's dog is barking excessively. DOGS BARK.... it just happens.. you can't blow a gasket because i dog opts to bark for 60-120 seconds at some point in broad daylight once a week.. unless you're an asshole, then you will. and since you KNOW you're being unreasonable, you're going to lace your approach with as much anger and scorn as you can muster, to help try to legitimize your illigitimate case.
Dogs bark.
People own dogs.
If you don't want to hear a dog bark, move somewhere without people.
first of all, do you know how annoying dogs' barking is? dog owners tend not to see this but to some people it's as irritating as the crap music blasting from punks' cars.
I totally concur. Some people here may recall my threads from last year that discussed my dog search. I hate incessant barking, and went out of my way to research breeds that have a track record of calm behavior and ease around other animals. I go to great lengths to keep our dog constructively occupied, and when he does bark, I deal with it quickly (2-3 mins max) in most cases.
and second, he's probably not singling you out as you've said that there are other dogs that bark but that's the problem. he doesn't care which dog it is, he just wants the barking to stop. you can't blame him really.
He is not singling me out. In my first post, I'd noted that he had also approached at least one other neighbor ( a guy named Greg) in a similarly confrontational manner (actually, in a more threatening manner as he AND another man came onto Greg's lot to angrily confront him about his lawnmower etc being too loud). He has called animal control on at least 4 of the 5 surrounding houses in the past 3-4 months- at least 3 or 4 times in just the past 3 weeks or so.
Also I respectfully disagree with your comment about the idea that "you can't blame him really". His threshold for irritation is unreasonably low, and his random assignment of blame DOES have consequences. I live in a fairly affluent suburban area. Each of these calls is "going on my record" so to speak. After this, I begin paying fines every time he makes the call. He does not need to accurately document which dog is barking, the decibel level, duration, or anything. Just that he made the call. Once the animal control officer arrives, it's on him to make the call to cite, BUT...
Imagine how this is likely to go, will you? Hypothetically, my neighbor's shepherd mix barks for 3 or 4 mins. Dick gets steamed and calls the po-po. My dog is sleeping in the kitchen, as usual- NOT barking or going nuts or anything. Soon, a big loud F350 pulls into my driveway (approx 3 meters from the kitchen window) and a stranger gets out and begins knocking on my door to establish whether or not there is a dog barking at this residence. Even money says that most dogs would be roused and commence to barking, and viola! A savvy officer is going to park well away from the property, shut off the motor and just listen for awhile, but I know from experience that the day shift officer just barrels in and avoids subtlety. Under the circumstances, I am kinda at their mercy unless I can somehow prove that it is NOT my dog who was barking when Dick made the call.
I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that a certain number of citations is grounds for seizure and/or destruction of the animal.
if you really want to deescalate this thing you might say to the guy, "hey, I know my dog has disturbed you before and I'm sorry. He's still a puppy and I'm working on that. But he's not the only dog out here that barks and I understand how annoying that can be. I'm sorry and I'll try to do a better job of taking care of my dog in the future."
That was more or less how I replied. I am curious if you'd offer similar advice to "Dick"?
instead of trying to treat this like a 'tactical' situation, how about you treat it like a human situation and see where that gets you...
I think you are projecting or something. "Tactical"? Really? :rolleyes::(
I posted in here asking for "practical" advice. I never used the word "tactical", or implied that I would go down that road. In fact, I said as much rather explicitly in my first post. I am a very good neighbor to those people in my immediate area, and a total grey man cipher to all others. As a salesman, I make my living by being nice and respectful towards people. I am concerned about this precisely because neighbor Dick has chosen to make this something other than a "human situation". While I am open to letting this blow over, it is Dick who went ugly early, and as far as I know he shows no signs of chilling out. We'll see what happens but in the meantime I am looking for advice on maximizing compliance and building a case to show that he is a neighborhood crank. That's all.
edited for formatting. sorry.
Dogs bark.
People own dogs.
If you don't want to hear a dog bark, move somewhere without people.
While it's true that dogs bark, there's more to it than that. Dogs would run free and crap on everyone's lawn if given the chance and we don't find that acceptable.
Essentially it comes down to if you want a dog, it's your responsibility to pick up after it and make sure it doesn't become a nuisance to the rest of us who didn't choose to get a dog. -Often if you have a problem dog, it's because you have a problem owner who does not train or take care of their dog(s) properly.
Dog owners can be incredibly selfish and myopic about their pets. Some people don't train their dogs well and as a consequence the dog will behave badly. Dogs can be trained not to bark excessively and not be insane about their territory but people usually don't bother. Part of it is because they're emotionally attached to the dog so they don't see the problem ("dogs are love") and part of it is because they have no idea how to train a dog but think their dog has been trained well enough.
Occasional barking is acceptable to most people as background noise. Sustained barking isn't. One of the things that usually happens with dogs is one dog goes off and that sets off another dog which in turn sets off another and before you know it you've got a bunch of dogs barking to establish their presence. As a routine, that gets old.
Regarding the original poster's problem, the person complaining about the dog made his problems known in a bad way. Coming up to a stranger and being belligerent makes the stranger want to be difficult. The only dog the original poster has any control or authority over is his own. He can make sure he pays attention to his own dog and takes it inside if it makes noise. If the neighbor comes calling later, he can explain to him that it's not his dog because his dog is inside.
Basically, the original poster is going to have to make sure (and document) his dog is not the problem dog for his neighbor. He should also check the local laws for it. In some of the areas I have lived I have heard of Animal Control fining people for dogs that bark excessively. I knew a girl in CA who had an insane Beagle that whined and yelped through the day when she and her boyfriend were away. Her boyfriend mentioned that Animal Control could require her to put her dog through the "debarking" procedure if she got more complaints from her neighbors.
montanadave
09-16-09, 12:49
Two summers ago I was working out of town for extended periods of time and my wife's work schedule was pretty erratic. Our dogs, one of which is an Aussie, were left unattended in the backyard for extended periods during the day and, occasionally, into the early evening. My wife came home one evening to find an anonymous letter in our mail box from "a neighbor" stating their displeasure with our dogs' incessant barking throughout the day and, should the situation not be quickly rectified, they were going to turn over the "evidence" they had gathered to animal control.
Needless to say, my wife was furious and loaded for bear. We had learned from other dog owner's on the block that a couple four houses down had made similar threats towards them in the past and were considered the neighborhood "dog haters." Someone had threatened my wife's "kids," she had identified the target, and was prepared to engage. I convinced her, via long distance call, to let me handle it.
I called the couple up and spoke to the husband, never letting on that I knew the letter had been left unsigned, but I'm certain I caught him off guard. I stated my wife and I had no wish for our dog's to be a nuisance, explained the temporary nature of my out-of-town employment, and requested his patience in affording me an opportunity to get home that weekend and assess the problem. He agreed to delay calling animal control until I got home.
When I returned home, I talked with my neighbors on both sides, who assured me they had not noticed any particular increase in our dog's barking, just the normal yapping at people in the ally, the garbage truck, etc. In an effort to placate the neighbor with the complaint, I purchased two "shock collars" for my dogs and informed him I was going to use these during the day when the dogs were unattended in an effort to reduce the barking, told him I had asked my immediate neighbors to report any excessive barking to my wife, and gave him our phone number and asked that he please call if the "excessive barking" continued.
The change in this guy's attitude was a complete one-eighty. He thanked me for acknowledging his concerns and was appreciative of my efforts to resolve the situation. I think he had been told to "**** off" and had doors slammed in his face so many times he was shocked that someone would actually validate his complaint and be willing to work towards a mutually satisfactory resolution.
End result: The dogs wore the collars for another month until I got home (and was around more during the day) and the couple now wave as they drive by and stop to visit when they are out walking. My dogs still bark at shit during the day but I haven't heard another complaint in over two years.
Sure, this couple could have taken a much more rigid position (and I could have. also) and the situation might have played out very differently. As others have noted, people often have pet peeves that get under their skin and fester until they finally decide "Goddammit! Enough's enough. I'm gonna do something" and that initial reaction is generally ill advised, guaranteed to meet with resistance and ultimately ineffective. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor and it pays off better to at least make an initial effort to work with someone rather than going to Defcon 1 straight out of the gate. YMMV and I hope you get it worked out, one way or another.
Dog owners can be incredibly selfish and myopic about their pets. Some people don't train their dogs well and as a consequence the dog will behave badly.
I feel the same way about children & parents. But when I go to a restaurant and kids are crying or shouting, I don't walk up to the parents and tell them to muzzle their kids. Why? Because kids are kids and sometimes they're loud and annoying.
My dog barks at two things: strangers in/around our home and the little yippy rat-dog that lives next door and is often left outside for hours on end. In both cases, I see it as my dog doing exactly what I want him to do: being territorial and protecting his home/pack. On the occasion when his barking has annoyed a neighbor, I apologize ... but I'm not going to teach my dog to be silent when someone starts poking around in our backyard.
i can remember times in my life when, filled with righteous indignation, i backed off a situation because i had a moment of concern over the other guy's stability.. these are the only, few, cowardly moments of my life, and i regret them immensely.
i have a few scars, my knuckles have been broken a few times and are probably arthritic for it, and three of my upper front teeth are man-made. every bit of it worth it- because i've never faced the same guy twice, once its come to blows.
like i said- if assholes cant get away with being assholes at you, they'll go be assholes somewhere else. assholes like it easy- so dont be easy.
we're all basing our answers based on the OPs presentation of the situation- maybe he's lying and his dog is a ****in bark factory from hell, and any one of use would have already shot it by now. but that's not the story we've been presented with.. in the OP's version, which seems like it's probably very close to reality, nobody's dog is barking excessively. DOGS BARK.... it just happens.. you can't blow a gasket because i dog opts to bark for 60-120 seconds at some point in broad daylight once a week.. unless you're an asshole, then you will. and since you KNOW you're being unreasonable, you're going to lace your approach with as much anger and scorn as you can muster, to help try to legitimize your illigitimate case.
you're right. but my concern is not with the the other guy's stability. it's with the OP getting what he wants. he said he wants to deescalate the whole situation and getting up on his hind legs is probably not the way to best way get that done.
that doesn't mean you gotta sit there and eat a big turd every time some asshole wants to leave one, but getting what you want out of any situation takes more than one set of responses. it's the whole "be like the water flowing around the rock" type of thing. you wanna be like the o-o-o in smooth...
yeah, it's a lot more satisfying to put your fist in someone's face, I know. I too have some store-bought choppers and a few stories to go with them. was that the best way to handle that? maybe. a couple times it did seem so at the moment. and a couple times I didn't have much choice.
anyway, it's his deal, and his decisions. the first thing he has to decide is what is the best way to get what he wants out of it, then go with that...
Originally Posted by ra2bach View Post
first of all, do you know how annoying dogs' barking is? dog owners tend not to see this but to some people it's as irritating as the crap music blasting from punks' cars.
I totally concur. Some people here may recall my threads from last year that discussed my dog search. I hate incessant barking, and went out of my way to research breeds that have a track record of calm behavior and ease around other animals. I go to great lengths to keep our dog constructively occupied, and when he does bark, I deal with it quickly (2-3 mins max) in most cases.
and second, he's probably not singling you out as you've said that there are other dogs that bark but that's the problem. he doesn't care which dog it is, he just wants the barking to stop. you can't blame him really.
He is not singling me out. In my first post, I'd noted that he had also approached at least one other neighbor ( a guy named Greg) in a similarly confrontational manner (actually, in a more threatening manner as he AND another man came onto Greg's lot to angrily confront him about his lawnmower etc being too loud). He has called animal control on at least 4 of the 5 surrounding houses in the past 3-4 months- at least 3 or 4 times in just the past 3 weeks or so.
Also I respectfully disagree with your comment about the idea that "you can't blame him really". His threshold for irritation is unreasonably low, and his random assignment of blame DOES have consequences. I live in a fairly affluent suburban area. Each of these calls is "going on my record" so to speak. After this, I begin paying fines every time he makes the call. He does not need to accurately document which dog is barking, the decibel level, duration, or anything. Just that he made the call. Once the animal control officer arrives, it's on him to make the call to cite, BUT...
Imagine how this is likely to go, will you? Hypothetically, my neighbor's shepherd mix barks for 3 or 4 mins. Dick gets steamed and calls the po-po. My dog is sleeping in the kitchen, as usual- NOT barking or going nuts or anything. Soon, a big loud F350 pulls into my driveway (approx 3 meters from the kitchen window) and a stranger gets out and begins knocking on my door to establish whether or not there is a dog barking at this residence. Even money says that most dogs would be roused and commence to barking, and viola! A savvy officer is going to park well away from the property, shut off the motor and just listen for awhile, but I know from experience that the day shift officer just barrels in and avoids subtlety. Under the circumstances, I am kinda at their mercy unless I can somehow prove that it is NOT my dog who was barking when Dick made the call.
I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that a certain number of citations is grounds for seizure and/or destruction of the animal.
if you really want to deescalate this thing you might say to the guy, "hey, I know my dog has disturbed you before and I'm sorry. He's still a puppy and I'm working on that. But he's not the only dog out here that barks and I understand how annoying that can be. I'm sorry and I'll try to do a better job of taking care of my dog in the future."
That was more or less how I replied. I am curious if you'd offer similar advice to "Dick"?
instead of trying to treat this like a 'tactical' situation, how about you treat it like a human situation and see where that gets you...
I think you are projecting or something. "Tactical"? Really?
I posted in here asking for "practical" advice. I never used the word "tactical", or implied that I would go down that road. In fact, I said as much rather explicitly in my first post. I am a very good neighbor to those people in my immediate area, and a total grey man cipher to all others. As a salesman, I make my living by being nice and respectful towards people. I am concerned about this precisely because neighbor Dick has chosen to make this something other than a "human situation". While I am open to letting this blow over, it is Dick who went ugly early, and as far as I know he shows no signs of chilling out. We'll see what happens but in the meantime I am looking for advice on maximizing compliance and building a case to show that he is a neighborhood crank. That's all.
this is all true. that's why I'd say, "look dude, I'm sorry. he's still a puppy and we're working on that." then, if he's still an asshole, at least you got that out of the way.
also, excuse my use of the word "tactical". I wasn't accusing you of anything but it seems like you're getting your ducks in a row for a confrontation. I just suggested you try to defuse the situation a little first.
I wasn't accusing you of anything but it seems like you're getting your ducks in a row for a confrontation.
Seemed to me he was looking to do just the opposite, hence asking for help here.
Don't sweat it. I guess I am sensitive to the idea that threads like this often end up with people giving advice on how to get revenge or whatever.
I know that for now, Dick has the upper hand in that the burden of proof needed to file a complaint is almost nil. I, OTOH, am in a position where it is quite difficult to prove that my dog is not the culprit most of the time, or that the nature of the barking (when it does occur, no matter whose dog) is not that loud or long-lasting.
In a way, you are correct on both counts. I do want deescalation AND I am getting my ducks lined up, because I expect continued confrontation. I DO NOT intend to take it to Dick, though. At least not right now.
For any LE-
Do you think I should call the Police and try to get out in front of Dick? Should I wait until the next go-round? If so (in either case) how should I go about it?
He is not singling me out. In my first post, I'd noted that he had also approached at least one other neighbor ( a guy named Greg) in a similarly confrontational manner (actually, in a more threatening manner as he AND another man came onto Greg's lot to angrily confront him about his lawnmower etc being too loud).
That just shows the guy has no tolerance for noise, not just barking. The neighborhood should not have to shut down during the day just because of one guy.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-16-09, 15:16
He is complaining about your dog barking when it is in your house? I know noise complaints are noise complaints, but my wife is louder than the dog :D
Do you keep your windows open when no one is home?
He is complaining about your dog barking when it is in your house? I know noise complaints are noise complaints, but my wife is louder than the dog :D
Do you keep your windows open when no one is home?
Usually not. This is Summer in SoCal. The dog is inside when nobody is home, and it'd be too hot not to run the a/c, albeit at a *high* (maybe 78degF or so) with the dog inside. So the windows stay closed.
When my dog barks, he is usually responding to other dogs barking or to cats/squirrels/birds who come into my yard. I have a koi pond which pulls in various critters for a drink and whatnot. He will sometimes have a bark at the occasional barkyard interloper. Even that is pretty minimal and short-lived, though. Hell, he has never barked at my cat once, even though he does try to herd the cat around. :D
true. but every day in life we got decisions to make. you just gotta ask yourself - is this the hill I want to die on?...
Someone comes on to my property and instantly goes full asshole or anteater or whatever I'm going to tell them to get off my property warn them that they are not welcome and will be charged with criminal tresspass if they come back. If they come over and say "hey man your dog's keeping me up" my response will be completely different.
Fortunately my neighbors are more than 100 yards away and their dogs bark too. Not only that but I doubt anyone that lives near me would come up with attitude trying to start chingasos right off the bat. Shooting in your backyard has several up sides.
To the OP:
I would call the police and tell them that this guy came onto your property and yelled F-bombs at you while assuming an aggresive posture. Just so there is a record of it.
not an easy situation, but at least one option that might settle the issue (if the guy is at least considering viable options instead of just being a pain in the azz).
http://www.amazon.com/HoMedics-SS-4000-Classic-Machine-Projection/dp/B0001W01L0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1246812237&sr=1-5
we use this exact model at home and on those rare days when a mid afternoon nap is possible...this will give a nice back ground noise which can even cover an aggressive and vocal session of "Medal of Honor" combat (Xbox game).
if you get the chance to interact with him in a semi-polite fashion, pass along that some of your friends that also have to sleep during the day, use this item and it allows them to blanket outside noises. Follow it up with a letter and site address, just in case he lost it the first time. Not only being polite, but also excellent documentation that you took pro-active measures and tried to help.
good luck.
I feel the same way about children & parents. But when I go to a restaurant and kids are crying or shouting, I don't walk up to the parents and tell them to muzzle their kids. Why? Because kids are kids and sometimes they're loud and annoying.
I wouldn't equate kids and dogs because it's sort of insulting to children, but either way both need to be socialized/trained as to what is and what is not acceptable behavior. That's your job as a parent or a dog owner. If parents or dog owners aren't doing their job, it's a given that someone will let them know they've dropped the ball.
Why do you think people get upset (and vocal) when someone brings a screaming kid to the movies? The basic attitude is don't make me a partner to your life choices. Since others don't get the benefit, they don't want the inconvenience/annoyance of the kid or the dog.
My dog barks at two things: strangers in/around our home and the little yippy rat-dog that lives next door and is often left outside for hours on end. In both cases, I see it as my dog doing exactly what I want him to do: being territorial and protecting his home/pack. On the occasion when his barking has annoyed a neighbor, I apologize ... but I'm not going to teach my dog to be silent when someone starts poking around in our backyard.
It's a matter of degree. Training your dog not to go psycho when someone walks by the property is different from training it do nothing when someone steps onto the property.
What ever happened to a good old fashioned ass-whipping to "Dick"?
It is a sad indictment of our society when two men who seem to have a "problem" with one another can't settle it like "Men"! Document this,call the police on that....I'm glad I dont live where you guy's live if thats the way day to day "business" has to be conducted.Me personally,I like to settle problems with a crushing uppercut but hey,to each his own.
Hope everything works out for ya!
Collegefour
09-17-09, 05:39
not an easy situation, but at least one option that might settle the issue (if the guy is at least considering viable options instead of just being a pain in the azz).
http://www.amazon.com/HoMedics-SS-4000-Classic-Machine-Projection/dp/B0001W01L0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1246812237&sr=1-5
we use this exact model at home and on those rare days when a mid afternoon nap is possible...this will give a nice back ground noise which can even cover an aggressive and vocal session of "Medal of Honor" combat (Xbox game).
if you get the chance to interact with him in a semi-polite fashion, pass along that some of your friends that also have to sleep during the day, use this item and it allows them to blanket outside noises. Follow it up with a letter and site address, just in case he lost it the first time. Not only being polite, but also excellent documentation that you took pro-active measures and tried to help.
good luck.
This guy has the right idea. I have worked graves for over ten years now. I have two box style fans purchased from Wal-Mart. I usually only need setting one, but sometimes when it gets real noisy outside, I bump it up to setting two. The only thing that won't cover is repeated dropping of heavy items directly on the floor above my bedroom, which of course does not occur often. See if he will try sleeping with a fan on (box fans in particular work well, as they are not designed to be quiet).
Also, just as explanation and not excuse for him, he might have been angry because it was basically two in the morning for him (anybody would be mad being awakened at 2am by noise), and he can't pinpoint where it's coming from, because it stops before he can wake up, get dressed, and go outside to find out where it's coming from.
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