Polyshok Shotgun ammo

[Voodoochild]

Doc what say you on this round?

http://www.defensereview.com/polyshok-impact-reactive-projectile-for-military-specops-and-le-swat/

[PRGGodfather]

I had Jim Middleton from PolyShok come out for a demo a few years ago, and he certainly believes in this product. It is very accurate, soft-shooting and performs against glass, steel and wood exactly as described on the PolyShok website.

PolyShok is marketed to LE as having little or no overpenetration potential, and its inherent accuracy allows LE to identify a single threat even among a crowd of people and address such a threat. For the liability-conscious, its use could suit the needs of LE at airports and bus terminals, for example. It also works very well as a breaching round.

Given PolyShok's inherent pre-fragmented construction, I have concerns about its actual performance, especially in the gelatin model.

As such, I called DocGKR about this a few months ago. Essentially, it is much like a Glaser Safety Slug in a 12 gauge format. Accordingly, there are some significant penetration issues and concerns about its ability to overcome light and intermediate barriers. The real difference is the PolyShok's payload is more massive than most pistol and rifle projectiles.

Penetration in ballistic gel is unimpressive, but its payload is good at making soup at initial contact depth -- and an awful lot of powdered lead to pick out at the ER.

Based on these evaluations, it is more a specialty load for very specific mission parameters, rather than all-around shotgun load for LE.

If DocGKR is inclined to jump in, I am certain he can verify and make more specific comments.

[DocGKR]

Several years ago, we tested the 12 gauge 2 3/4" Polyshok "Law Enforcement, Urban Tactical, Impact Reactive SMART Projectile" containing 470 gr of very small spherical lead shot contained in "a low density polymer compound projectile body". Despite some rather amusing claims by the manufacturer, for a general duty load the Polyshok ammunition has inadequate penetration of only 7.9" with terminal performance similar to bird shot. Ave vel = 973 f/s from a 14" Rem 870.

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/12ga_PolyShok.jpg?t=1253061048

On the other hand, it is a great round for breaching!

[DMR]

Doc,

An agency that we work with is quite found of this round for use in their specialty role. They need a round that will not return even after Hitting steel, bricks what ever, with LOTS of people around. 95% of their shots are in confinded spaces so they believe it makes sense.

I have some from a T&E. Interesting specialty round is how I will leave it, I am no ballistics expert.

[MK108]

Sirs,

you can find an interesting article about this round published on Journal of Forensic Sciences at:

www.polyshok.com/images/Ballistic%20Results.pdf

All the best
Andrea

[Glock17JHP]

Doc,

An agency that we work with is quite found of this round for use in their specialty role. They need a round that will not return even after Hitting steel, bricks what ever, with LOTS of people around. 95% of their shots are in confinded spaces so they believe it makes sense.

I have some from a T&E. Interesting specialty round is how I will leave it, I am no ballistics expert.

Underpenetration is still underpentration... and there will always be the possiblity of the 'less than ideal' shot angle, making it even worse...

We worry too much about overpenetration, I think...

[PRGGodfather]

Sirs,

you can find an interesting article about this round published on Journal of Forensic Sciences at:

www.polyshok.com/images/Ballistic%20Results.pdf

All the best
Andrea


Interesting article. Unique wounding mechanism to say the least -- and the subject shot certainly would not argue as to its effectiveness...

Perspectives...

[Glock17JHP]

I would want to see a wound profile or gelatin block penetration picture...

I don't like the shallow penetration (8 inches)... and this was one case study of one individual. You could put that together for numerous poorly designed loads, but they are still poorly designed loads, even if they can kill one case study individual...

How would that load work in a less-than-ideal-shot-angle shooting???

I'll stick with Low-Recoil 00 Buck...

[tucsonan]

I usually just lurk but I might as well make my first post sometime. I'm with Tucson PD. I generally carry a rifle and don't check out a shotgun, but it seems that most of the guys feel confident with the polyshok round.

It makes the administration happy because it won't penetrate barriers like regular slugs, but it retains 100 yard accuracy. We had some past instances where the buckshot could not reach out and touch someone at the desired range.

As far as the penetration at odd angles is concerned there are some issues with that. We had an instance where an officer took a shot from a side angle hitting the upper arm of the suspect. It didn't penetrate the chest cavity but it pretty much removed the entire arm, and stopped the suspect. I guess everything is a trade off.

We also use the polyshok as a practice round for breaching as it is less expensive (or so I am told, I don't keep the books )than the dedicated breaching rounds that we used.

[MK108]

...maybe it could be interesting...

...a slug manufactured in Italy for hog hunting hits the fleshy target as a single projectile....it breaks after some penetration to release six 62 grains each lead polyhedrons...so conceptually is similar to the round above...while the lead pieces are much larger...

...its name is Palla Ferrandi (..Ferrandi bullet..) and in the original loading it has a 31.6 grams bullet (...about 488 grains...) with an initial velocity from my 28" 12 gauge over and under's improved cylinder barrel of about 1450 fps...

some pics of the projectile..a white plastic container with the six lead polihedrons inside...the scale is graduated in millimeters...

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8848/p9190927.th.jpg (http://img89.imageshack.us/i/p9190927.jpg/)

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6087/p9190930.th.jpg (http://img87.imageshack.us/i/p9190930.jpg/)

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/8007/p9190931.th.jpg (http://img15.imageshack.us/i/p9190931.jpg/)

All the best
Andrea

[tpd223]

I think there is a new version of the Federal Flightcontrol OO buck round that is marketed as a "slug" since it's designed to not deploy the OO buck pellets until impact with the target.

[DocGKR]

The Federal Flight Control Buckshot uses a licensed version of Chris Billings' Choke shot spread reducing wad. The Choke "Precision Buckshot" was a different design that held the pellets together until they hit the target--slug like accuracy, but buckshot terminal performance. Louis Awerbuck was hitting bowling pins at 110 yards with the stuff; several area PD's issued the Choke "Precision Buckshot" for 5 years or so--worked great. Unfortunately, the Federal produced version couldn't hit a man-sized target at 25 yards...

Mk108--Thanks for sharing that interesting design. Choke also had a similar shotgun projectile, but loaded with tungsten AP elements--very wicked and made short work of most Level III armor...

[Odd Job]

Andrea that is very interesting, thanks for sharing!