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I want to safely be able to shoot a steel plate or a gong. I currently have a 14”x14” ˝” steel plate that I would like to be able to shoot at both with a 9mm and a .40. I would also like to be able to set it out at a 100+ yards and use my .223 and 7.62x39. Is this safe? Any recommendations?
It's not possible to say whether it would be safe or not as you don't mention what kind of steel it is or the hardness.
The minimum safe distance for shooting steel is 10 yards with pistol rounds and 25 yards with rifle. This is assuming the correct hardness plates in good condition with acceptable ammunition. Frangible ammunition allows shooting from closer positions.
While it is doubtful that you would get splatter at your shooting position from 100 yards the .223 and 7.62 x 39 might just burn right through the plate depending on what it's hardness is.
I have no idea on hardness, this was scrap pieces I got from a metal yard. So are those not even safe to shoot at all? I confess I did shoot about 5 rounds of 9mm from about 25 yards, and it didnt dent the plate at all, but didnt want something to come back at me. I will be shooting at this next to a gravel pile in B.F.E
Here's the deal.. if it's mild steel, 223 will either smoke through it or crater the hell out of it.
Do NOT shoot cratered steel at handgun distances. The craters grab lead and throw it right back at you.
I wouldn't worry about shooting mild steel with a rifle at 100+, but the plate will be destroyed quickly unless it is armor steel.
IPSC minimum for steel is 7 yards, IIRC. I've shot it from 5. We got a little bit of splatter, and some bleeders.
Unless IPSC have different rules than USPSA, USPSA's minimum distance for steel is 10 yds, that was several years ago when I still shot USPSA. IDPA is 10 yds. minimum. I use those guidelines and won't shoot steel with pistol under 10 yds. For rifle rated steel, 25 yds. minimum.
And like another poster said earlier, NEVER shoot at steel targets with craters! YOu'll get projectiles coming back at you.
Here's the deal.. if it's mild steel, 223 will either smoke through it or crater the hell out of it.
Do NOT shoot cratered steel at handgun distances. The craters grab lead and throw it right back at you.
I wouldn't worry about shooting mild steel with a rifle at 100+, but the plate will be destroyed quickly unless it is armor steel.
I wish I would have know that about 3 years ago! I was shooting at and old cratered manhole cover with a 357mag and a piece came back and hit my right index finger on the thumb side.
It took one of the best hand specialists in the state to remove the metal which was almost cutting into my digital nerve, which could have caused the loss of all feeling in that finger for the rest of my life...THANK GOD I'M A LEFTY!
I never thought in a million years I would get hit by frag 3 days before I left for Iraq and then 9 months later never got a scratch on me.
Thanks for the great replies, I guess ill use it just for handgun, and get buy something thats made for rifle.
ArCane,
As Zak Smith properly stated you need to know the hardness rating of the steel you are going to use. There are two standard tests that are used for rating steel the Brinell and the Rockwell. For steel being used for firearms the Brinell Hardness Test is the industry standard. Abrasion Resistant (AR) 500 is the standard for use with center fire rifles. For those only familiar with the Rockwell test AR500 is equivalent of C51. Some circles allow for the use of steel targets with an AR250 rating (most likely your steel is even rated less than that) for handguns. However, IMHO a steel rating less than AR400 for handguns is not recommended as the steel eventually concaves creating a potentially dangerous situation with splatter.
Thus, not only is the correct type of steel important but the proper design of the target system. There are several good steel target manufacturers MGM, Porta, LaRue and Salute Products. You can learn more about steel targets at www.saluteproducts.com FAQ portion of their website.
S/F
Arcane, Try Sweetwater Engineering they make all sorts of stuff in AR400 and AR500. Not sure about their website but the phone # is: 770 942 1309 ask for Dan. Regards, Magnum1
CarlosDJackal
03-09-07, 16:18
One option you can look into is using frangible ammo for your rifles.
FWIW, I have seen lead hit someone who was almost 50-yards away from a cratered steel target. The piece of kead embedded itself into this guys cheek (after somehow passing between two other individuals?).
For steel targets the Brinell Hardness test is the industry standard. I know everything meets or exceeds that standard at the state owned range I shoot at, but the local sportsman’s club I belong to probably doesn’t have a single target that meets the standard. The main reason is they get their “targets” from a local center-pivot irrigator factory for nothing. One way we minimize the chance of lead flying back at shooters is to lean the targets slightly forward by placing them between two pieces of bar-stock screwed onto a wooden sawhorse. It’s always worked okay for handgun rounds. I’ve not seen anyone shoot them with a rifle, because we use paper for the majority of the rifle shots and bowling pins for the rest.
To clear some confusion about USPSA/IPSC rules . . . the minimum distances for shooting steel are seven (7) and fifty (50) meters for handgun and rifle, respectively. However, it is unusal in my experience to see steel engaged (with handgun) at a USPSA match at less than ten yards.
I would not fire a rifle at any steel target at less than 50 yards. In my opinion, twenty-five yards is too close unless you are using frangible ammunition.
From IPSC Handgun Competition Rules, USPSA Version January 2004:
2.1.3 Minimum Distances – Whenever metal targets are used in a course of fire, precautions must be taken so that competitors and match officials maintain a minimum distance of 7 meters (22.96 feet) from them while they are being shot. Where possible, this should be done with physical barriers. If Charge Lines are used to limit the approach to metal targets, they must be placed at least 8 meters (26.25 feet) from the targets so that the competitor may inadvertently fault the line and still be outside the 7 meter (22.96
feet) minimum distance.
From IPSC Rifle Competition Rules, USPSA Version January 2004:
2.1.3 Minimum Distances – Whenever metal targets are used in a course of fire, precautions must be taken so that competitors and match officials maintain a minimum distance of 50 meters (164.04 feet) from them while they are being shot. Where possible, this should be done with physical barriers. If Charge Lines are used to limit the approach to metal targets, they must be placed at least 55 meters (180.45 feet) from the targets so that the competitor may inadvertently fault the line and still be outside the 50 meter (164.04 feet) minimum distance.
How close you can safely fire on steel is HIGHLY dependent on the targets design and construction.
As stated, do not shoot dimpled, cratered, cracked, etc steel. It's a matter of time before someone gets hit with frag.
To help avoid issues with splatter, some places use dedicated rifle steel and the same with pistol. Big no no to shoot either one with the other.
I'm sure others have seen it happen, I've seen three people that were a sliver away from death from serious splatter.
If close, be mindful of what's around the steel as well.
Plates used with rifles should be purpose-built and rated for same. Action Target, and others, have some resources online on the construction and safe use of steel. Type is only one of the variables.
This plate is mild steel cut and hung as a pistol swinger. Service calibers had no effect. The craters you see were caused by .223/5.56. I forget which particular rounds in this pic, but 55FMJ, 55JSP, and 40-something grain frangible all had the same effect. After this cratering, the plate could no longer be used safely.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/883273/DamagedPlate.jpg
David Thomas
03-11-07, 09:35
I have not seen the angle of the target mentioned, but the safe distance also depends on the angle at which the steel will be mounted or hung and whether it reacts when shot or not.
For safe shooting, you would be best served by purchasing steel targets designed for your needs.
A good target can be purchased for less than the price of a case of ammo and will provide years of service.
David Thomas
03-11-07, 09:37
And Skintop is right, frangible ammo can crater and even penetrate mild steel (esp. stainless) if you try to shoot at it too close.
Cesiumsponge
03-11-07, 14:00
If you have a local heat treat company, you can probably get the steel treated for a reasonable price if you're nice. Most any steel scraps you find should be able to harden enough for target use but ideally you want to know the AISI or equivalent alloy. You can also do amateur heat treatment with tons of information found online (air, water, oil, etc) but you would have to bring it to a machine shop or similar to verify on a hardness tester.
I believe rifle-rated plates are hardened to 500 Brinell, which is about 250ksi or 51Rc. That would seem to make sense since anything pushing over high 50's in the Rc scale would be brittle and chip/crack easily (ie most knives are 58-62Rc).
All the different hardness names are just various types of scales, like Farenheit, Rankine, Celsius, and Kelvin. You can convert between them using exacting constants and formulas.
You might want to also put a tilt on the target. If you slightly tilt the target top towards you, most of the bullets will go down into the ground. If you slightly tilt it up or away from you, most of the bullets will go upwards. Your steel indoor target traps angle the steel plates just ever so slightly down so that the bullet strikes the plate and follows the angle of the plate back and down into a sand trap or into a deceleration tube.
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