View Full Version : New Viking Tactics VTAC EXTREME BattleRail - By Troy Industries
GLOCKMASTER
09-15-09, 20:28
In the last week I acquired a new Viking Tactics VTAC Extreme Battle rail manufactured by Troy Ind. I currently have the JP Enterprises version on an S&W M&P VTAC rifle and since I enjoy it so much, I thought I would give the new VTAC rail a try on my 10.5” LMT.
For starters I had to remove a LaRue 10" rail that was on the rifle. Two DPMS wrenches and a one PRI Barrel Nut Tool later I was able to remove the LaRue barrel nut. Once the LaRue Rail System was out of the way I was able to quickly and very easily install the new VTAC Rail without issue. The new VTAC Extreme Battle Rail comes with two 2" and one 4" rail sections. The 4" section comes with a sling attachment point milled into the section.
I really like this new rail system from Viking Tactics because it is so easy to remove for maintenance under the rail. One of the main selling points for me with the Viking Tactics rail systems is since I do not need all the rail estate that usually comes with most rail systems these days I can choose where I want place sections of rail that best suits me and my setup.
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_1679.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_1681.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_1701-1.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_1700-1.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_1696-1.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_1688-1.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_1990.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_2010.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_2024.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_2018.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_2019.jpg
Very cool - I presume they have all lengths?
GLOCKMASTER
09-15-09, 21:37
Very cool - I presume they have all lengths?
They come in lengths of 9, 11 and 13 inches.
I can see that being a pretty good match to a Noveske N4 shorty....
Nice looking rail.
Is it just me or holy shit do you have a ton of ammo stacked up in some of those pics.
NCPatrolAR
09-15-09, 22:47
Nice looking rail.
Is it just me or holy shit do you have a ton of ammo stacked up in some of those pics.
You could say that ;)
Looks awesome.
Any idea what the weight & dimensions are? Looks more narrow than the Larue. I looked on rob_s' Rail Systems chart (google doc) but the data is not there yet.
Thanks.
Looks awesome.
Any idea what the weight & dimensions are? Looks more narrow than the Larue. I looked on rob_s' Rail Systems chart (google doc) but the data is not there yet.
Thanks.
kudos. Weight would be interesting. It's a nice looking product. Kind of reminiscent of a PRI carbon forend.
Without any rail chunks, the 11" TRX VTAC weighs 11.6 ounces. Each chunk weighs about an ounce.
A LaRue 13.2" conventional rail weighs 18.4 ounces IIRC
A JP VTAC 12" tube without rail chunks weighs 16 ounces.
The TRX is pretty thin. In fact, it will fit inside my Yankee Hill tube (12" is 16.4 ounces, BTW)
I have a CMMG 14.5" midlength lightweight barrel on backorder and the TRX is going on it.
Any idea of the weight of these rails as compared to a a Larue in an 11"? I looked on the VTAC sight and didn't see weights.
Jay Cunningham
09-16-09, 10:09
Looks good to me.
Man, I am liking this more and more. I think this might have to be my next rail.
Grant, if you are listening, do you have these in stock?
Let us know how you like this setup.
Good looking rail Jeff. I'll probably install one on my 16" LMT. What length will work best with a 16" barrel and what gas blocks fit under it?
CarlosDJackal
09-16-09, 11:23
Very nice!! How is its weight compared to the original JP Enterprises version?
Thanks for sharing.
parishioner
09-16-09, 11:40
Any idea of the weight of these rails as compared to a a Larue in an 11"? I looked on the VTAC sight and didn't see weights.
Exact question I was going to ask.
Guys, all these are is the new Troy Extreme rails (http://www.troyind.com/TRXrails.html) with a V-tac logo on them and slots instead of holes, much like the old ones were JP tubes with the V-tac logo and a couple of minor tweaks. I have not found the weights either and am still waiting for Troy to get back to me. Guess I should ping them again.
Bear in mind that of course they are going to weigh less, they also offer less in terms of mounting locations and heat protection. On the one hand, yes it's nice to be able to mount rail sections where you want/need them and only in that spot, but those rail sections and the covers most of us put on them do a lot to protect our hands from the heat generated by the barrel.
I'd like to try one of the 9.0 versions, but I'm apprehensive at best.
Vtac version
http://www.vikingtactics.com/images/vtac_xtreme_rail.jpg
Troy version
http://www.troyind.com/Images1/trx_extreme.jpg
Rob_S: I believe Troy keeps their handguards' weight as a highly confidential trade secret. Bring a postage scale to the next SHOT show ;). I noted the weight of my 11" VTAC TRX above
I suspect if Kyle Lamb put his blessing on this, it works. Most of those guys shoot with gloves anyway.
Thomas M-4
09-16-09, 12:31
Does anybody know if the PRI adj low profile gas block will fit inside the battle rail.
http://www.pri-mounts.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/05-075-03_L.JPG
Without any rail chunks, the 11" TRX VTAC weighs 11.6 ounces.
Is that with or without the nut?
Is that with or without the nut?
With.
Failure2Stop
09-16-09, 14:51
How does this rail do with heat?
I looked at one a little bit ago but since bare rails tend to get excessively hot after a few drills I didn't pay much time contemplating it.
Regarding heat. How much barrel heat transfer is from direct contact at the barrel nut end vs heat radiation from the barrel itself?
This rail is very thin aluminum with many holes - it will dissipate any heat quickly. I imagine if the majority of the heat is direct contact heat at the nut it wouldn't be such an issue - especially if you hold forward on the tube per latest practice.
Failure2Stop
09-16-09, 17:04
Regarding heat. How much barrel heat transfer is from direct contact at the barrel nut end vs heat radiation from the barrel itself?
This rail is very thin aluminum with many holes - it will dissipate any heat quickly. I imagine if the majority of the heat is direct contact heat at the nut it wouldn't be such an issue - especially if you hold forward on the tube per latest practice.
I don't know about this rail, hence the question, but I can definately say that aluminum handguards, whether FF or not, get really hot relatively fast unless you have rail covers or an oven-mitt, regardless of where on the HG you hold.
3CTactical
09-16-09, 18:09
I should be getting my Troy TRX 11" Extreme this Thursday or Friday. I also just bought a quality Ohaus scale to weigh it on. I will post results when I get them.
I also just got a Troy TRX 11" STANDARD rail - with the barrel nut it weighs 19.84oz. The width of the rail L to R is 2.200" For comparison, my Troy MRF-MX 10" with a standard barrel nut is 16.16 oz.
In addition I emailed Troy (when I was originally looking into these rail systems) and the following is what I received from them regarding the weights on the STANDARD TRX rail:
----------------------
The weights I have so far are
TRX 7” standard = 13.900
TRX 9” Standard = 16.722
TRX 11” Standard = 20.043
All weights include the barrel nut. I do not have the weight of the 13” TRX standard yet.
--
Tom
Troy Industries Inc.
128 Myron St
West Springfield, MA 01089
So Troy and my measurements were quite close on the 11" Standard TRX rail
And finally, this is what I recieved from Troy regarding the TRX EXTREME rail weights:
---
The TRX extreme 11” is 9.93 with rail sections, The 13” extreme is 11.43 with rail sections.
--
Tom
Troy Industries Inc.
128 Myron St
West Springfield, MA 01089
In a later email Tom said that these weights included the barrel nut. I think they may be off a little on these weights from what I've heard from other people. Like I said, once I get the rail later this week, I'll weigh it to verify and then post results.
memberonly
09-16-09, 18:56
I’ve been using my 11” TRX Extreme for a few weeks now and really like the simplicity of the design. I have smallish paws, so the lower profile gives me a much better control. You will feel the heat after a few mags but it’s really not much worse than any other design out there. Wear a glove and it won’t be an issue.
There is plenty of space under the rail as well. I cutted down my old FSB and there are some space to spare.
I got the same email from Tom with this information
TRX extreme: 9”= 8.46 oz, 11” = 9.93 oz, 13” = 11.43 oz
TRX Standard 9” = 16.72 oz, 11” = 20.04 oz, estimated 13” = 24 oz
I'm pretty surprised at the weights of the Standard version. Twice what the Extreme weighs!
GLOCKMASTER
09-18-09, 06:40
Nice looking rail.
Is it just me or holy shit do you have a ton of ammo stacked up in some of those pics.
Are you talking about this stack?;)
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_1206-4.jpg
GLOCKMASTER
09-18-09, 06:43
How does this rail do with heat?
I looked at one a little bit ago but since bare rails tend to get excessively hot after a few drills I didn't pay much time contemplating it.
I haven't been able to get it out to the range to see how the heat will transfer to the rail. I have the JP VTAC rail on a S&W VTAC Rifle and I have never noticed it getting excessively hot during drills. However, I always try to wear gloves when running carbines.
3CTactical
09-18-09, 17:38
Ok, so I received my 11" TRX Extreme yesterday and immediately put it on the scale to see how she would stack up and I was a little dissapointed as the rail gains weight pretty quickly as you add on the accessory rails. Also, the weights I got weren't even close to what Troy stated in their email to me which was "The TRX extreme 11” is 9.93 with rail sections...and this weight includes the barrel nut" So here are my results:
11" TRX Extreme rail and barrel nut ONLY = 10.24 oz.
3" bolt-on rail section with screws and threaded plate = 1.20 oz.
4" bolt-on rail section with screws and threaded plate = 1.44 oz.
11" Rail, barrel nut, both 3" bolt-on sections and one bolt-on 4" section = 14.08 oz.
Note that the 4" rail section had a QD swivel socket milled into it so at least you wouldn't have to add the weight of an add-on QD socket. If you weren't going to bolt on all the add-on rails, this would be a pretty light weight rail, but in comparison, the Daniel Defense Lite 12" rail only weighs 14 oz. including barrel nut. Granted, you'd have to add a bolt-on QD swivel socket, but the Daniel Defense QD socket I have only weighed in at 0.48 oz.
I guess this is why I'm a little dissapointed, because even with the added weight of the bolt-on QD socket and with full length picatinny rails on all 4 sides the Lite rail (which is also 12" long vs. the Troy's 11") would only weigh 0.4 oz more than the Troy with all the bolt-on sections attached. After looking at the TRX, I think Troy could have made it quite a bit lighter in some areas with a few extra machining steps.
If you were going to run this rail without any of the bolt-on sections, hands down, it is the lightest and smallest rail currently produced and is a pretty innovative design. I would, like some of you in the previous comments, be concerned about heat from the barrel if shooting without gloves and running some high round counts.
As far as the TRX Standard is concerned - I'm with rob - it is an extremely heavy rail and other than how it mounts, I see nothing that really stands out with this rail. Again, looking more in-depth at this rail, there is a LOT Troy could have done to make it lighter - just more machining steps, which of course equals a higher price.
In the end I think I'll just end up putting a Danel Defense 12" Lite rail on this rifle as I think it will better suit my needs than either the TRX Extreme or Standard. I'll be posting them both of the TRXs for sale in the EE pretty soon. :(
Ok, so I received my 11" TRX Extreme yesterday and immediately put it on the scale to see how she would stack up and I was a little dissapointed as the rail gains weight pretty quickly as you add on the accessory rails. Also, the weights I got weren't even close to what Troy stated in their email to me which was "The TRX extreme 11” is 9.93 with rail sections...and this weight includes the barrel nut" So here are my results:
11" TRX Extreme rail and barrel nut ONLY = 10.24 oz.
3" bolt-on rail section with screws and threaded plate = 1.20 oz.
4" bolt-on rail section with screws and threaded plate = 1.44 oz.
11" Rail, barrel nut, both 3" bolt-on sections and one bolt-on 4" section = 14.08 oz.
Note that the 4" rail section had a QD swivel socket milled into it so at least you wouldn't have to add the weight of an add-on QD socket. If you weren't going to bolt on all the add-on rails, this would be a pretty light weight rail, but in comparison, the Daniel Defense Lite 12" rail only weighs 14 oz. including barrel nut. Granted, you'd have to add a bolt-on QD swivel socket, but the Daniel Defense QD socket I have only weighed in at 0.48 oz.
I guess this is why I'm a little dissapointed, because even with the added weight of the bolt-on QD socket and with full length picatinny rails on all 4 sides the Lite rail (which is also 12" long vs. the Troy's 11") would only weigh 0.4 oz more than the Troy with all the bolt-on sections attached. After looking at the TRX, I think Troy could have made it quite a bit lighter in some areas with a few extra machining steps.
If you were going to run this rail without any of the bolt-on sections, hands down, it is the lightest and smallest rail currently produced and is a pretty innovative design. I would, like some of you in the previous comments, be concerned about heat from the barrel if shooting without gloves and running some high round counts.
As far as the TRX Standard is concerned - I'm with rob - it is an extremely heavy rail and other than how it mounts, I see nothing that really stands out with this rail. Again, looking more in-depth at this rail, there is a LOT Troy could have done to make it lighter - just more machining steps, which of course equals a higher price.
In the end I think I'll just end up putting a Danel Defense 12" Lite rail on this rifle as I think it will better suit my needs than either the TRX Extreme or Standard. I'll be posting them both of the TRXs for sale in the EE pretty soon. :(
Thanks for the info! Much appreciated. Like you, without the weight savings, ths FF is worthless FOR ME. I, like you, would prefer the flexibility afforded by four continuous rails on all sides if it's going to end up weighing in at an insignificant difference.
GLOCKMASTER
09-18-09, 19:29
Rails and sections were weighed today on US Postal scales.
Weights Just ----------Rail---------Rail w/nut
VTAC-EXT-13---------11.1 oz.-------12.6 oz.
VTAC-EXT-11----------9.7 oz.-------11.2 oz.
VTAC-EXT-9----------- 8.2 oz. --------9.7 oz.
VTAC-EXT-7------------7.0 oz. --------8.5 oz.
2" rail = .8 oz. 4" rail = 1.6 oz. Nut = 1.5 oz.
sonrider657
09-18-09, 20:13
What is the relationship between Troy and Viking Tactics? Are they owned by the same company or something?
Troy is an OEM for some of Viking Tactics products. They are separate companies.
Any feedback or reviews on these or the Troy Extreme rails. I really want feedback on heat during extended or rapid fire. I have a 9mm carbine that I would like to put this rail on for local pistol cal carbine matches. I'll be dumping 30 or so rounds pretty quickly per stage.
GLOCKMASTER
11-21-09, 14:48
Any feedback or reviews on these or the Troy Extreme rails. I really want feedback on heat during extended or rapid fire. I have a 9mm carbine that I would like to put this rail on for local pistol cal carbine matches. I'll be dumping 30 or so rounds pretty quickly per stage.
During the EAG class here in October I used my SBR with the VTAC Extreme Rail. The only time I noticed it getting warm was during several back to back NSR drills. It took several for it to get warm however, it never got warm enough that I could not hold it with bare hands.
During the EAG class here in October I used my SBR with the VTAC Extreme Rail. The only time I noticed it getting warm was during several back to back NSR drills. It took several for it to get warm however, it never got warm enough that I could not hold it with bare hands.
Thanks for the reply. I'll be sending my barrel off to Adco to be turned down after this match. No I have to decide on the 7 inch rail with the barrel mounted front sight or go longer and mount a sight on the rail. I don't think I will go longer than 9 inches since I'm trying to lighten this thing up.
Thanks for the reply. I'll be sending my barrel off to Adco to be turned down after this match. No I have to decide on the 7 inch rail with the barrel mounted front sight or go longer and mount a sight on the rail. I don't think I will go longer than 9 inches since I'm trying to lighten this thing up.
I'll keep you posted.
I've been rebuilding my 9mm carbine the last few weeks - I picked up a new Nodak 9mm marked lower, changed over to an ACS and have a 13" Troy TRX Extreme on the way with delivery expected Wednesday.
I was seriously considering the VTAC version because of the slots but fell into a deal on the Troy that I just couldn't pass up. I'll be running MBUS front and rear and my old EOTech 511; slinging is TBD.
I'm considering sending the barrel off to ADCO for a recontour but want to see what the balance is like as is first.
NavyDavy55
11-21-09, 18:01
That Extreme rail really looks nice.
Compared to other rails I imagine it's not like holding a cheese grader.
Any feedback or reviews on these or the Troy Extreme rails. I really want feedback on heat during extended or rapid fire. I have a 9mm carbine that I would like to put this rail on for local pistol cal carbine matches. I'll be dumping 30 or so rounds pretty quickly per stage.
I've run about 500 rounds through my new build with the 13" Troy TRX-E tube on it, half of that was as fast as I could pull the trigger and change mags. During normal firing or even rapid firing 1-2 mags heat is not an issue, even with bare hands. Multiple mags it does get hot, but no hotter than any other tube is going to get after a couple hundred rounds dumped through it. It didn't start getting real uncomfortable untill about mag #5.
So far I love the rail, real light, and solid.
I'm not sure who to blame, but between the Troy sights and rail, and the BCM upper, sighting in took zero windage adjustment, and only two clicks of elevation to be right on. I was real pleased with the tolerances ending up being that close.
Still looking for a good sling mount solution that doesn't involve mounting a section of rail, or the sling stud that is available and uses a teflon nut to hold it in place.
Anyone got sling mount suggestions? KNS has one that looks like it will work, but haven't seen it in use yet.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/new%20ar%20build/newar17.jpg
Still looking for a good sling mount solution that doesn't involve mounting a section of rail, or the sling stud that is available and uses a teflon nut to hold it in place.
Anyone got sling mount suggestions? KNS has one that looks like it will work, but haven't seen it in use yet.
Nice build! I'm really looking forward to mine getting here.
Re: front sling point - I'm probably going with a short rail section and a CQB Forward Mount at the rear end of mine, but I'm wondering if ar15performance is using a standard plumbing nut for theirs. If they are, maybe it's available in brass, too?
http://m.b5z.net/i/u/6132121/i//TQD.jpg (linked because it's too big to display inline)
The more I think about it the more tempted I am to go full awn white trash and just thread the heaviest duy key ring I can find through a couple of the holes to act as a loop to attach a HK hook to.
I just can't bring myself to attach a piece of rail, then buy a sling mount to mount to that rail, all just to snap a sling to.
I'll keep on looking, still have to pick up a sling to put on whatever mount I end up with.
edit: Redneck is as redneck does. Had to give it a shot to see if it would even work.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/new%20ar%20build/newar21.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/new%20ar%20build/newar22.jpg
Figure folks have been using 550 cord and plastic buckles to hold slings together for years, this might just hold up for a while, just have to see. Sure it might fail spectacularly in the "rappel down a cliff using nothing but your rifle sling" test, so I'll just have to avoid that one.:D
I may go completely crazy and thread some heat shrink tubing on there so it doesn't rattle, have to see.
CarlosDJackal
11-22-09, 20:31
Would one of these work?
VTAC-LUSA (http://www.vikingtactics.com/prod_vtac_lusa.html)
Daniel Defense Offset Sling Adapter (http://dsgarms.com/index.cfm/product/1368/daniel-defense-offset-rail-mounted-push-button-qd-swivel-attachment-point.cfm)
spankaveli
11-22-09, 21:11
http://www.countycomm.com/ring.htm
;)
Would one of these work?
VTAC-LUSA (http://www.vikingtactics.com/prod_vtac_lusa.html)
Daniel Defense Offset Sling Adapter (http://dsgarms.com/index.cfm/product/1368/daniel-defense-offset-rail-mounted-push-button-qd-swivel-attachment-point.cfm)
Sure, those would work, I could bolt just about anything to a piece of rail. Just don't like the thought of adding a piece of rail just to bolt a sling mount too, seems too complicated and heavy for what it is.
http://www.countycomm.com/ring.htm
;)
Nice, but a bit long. I have 1/16" stainless cable, ferrules, and heat shrink, I can make one if I get around to it.
I'll probably end up TIG welding a loop to a socket head screw and just using a washer to center it in the hole and a cut down Troy backer to hold it all together. It'll be a couple weeks till I'm back in the shop though, got some surgery to go through tomorrow morning that's going to keep me off my feet for a while.
I'll post pics when I come up with something.
the_fallguy
11-22-09, 21:38
Why not mount the Daniel Defense Offset Sling Adapter on the top rail? Wouldn't that position it close to where your key ring was? I haven't used one, but it looks like it is short enough not to interfere with a sight picture or anything like that.
What about one of those Blueforcegear UWL's?
Why not mount the Daniel Defense Offset Sling Adapter on the top rail? Wouldn't that position it close to where your key ring was? I haven't used one, but it looks like it is short enough not to interfere with a sight picture or anything like that.
Sonofa... <facepalm>
You my friend are a genious, why didn't I see it before? Guess I got stuck thinking in one dimension, that a sling mount had to go on the side of the tube. The DD mount on the top rail should be perfect. Damn, how did I miss that?
No sarcasm, just kicking myself for not seeing the answer right there in front of me. Thanks.
the_fallguy
11-22-09, 22:07
I was taking a shot in the dark, but I'm glad it helped.
Even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while...:D
Robb Jensen
11-22-09, 22:07
Very cool. I really like the 11" Troy I used on my wifes ultra light AR. How much for the 10" LaRue you removed?
Failure2Stop
11-23-09, 01:54
During the EAG class here in October I used my SBR with the VTAC Extreme Rail. The only time I noticed it getting warm was during several back to back NSR drills. It took several for it to get warm however, it never got warm enough that I could not hold it with bare hands.
That's good to know.
This has greatly increased my interest in this HG.
I am not so much interested in the weight savings (to me a few ounces doesn't mean all that much) so much as the HG itself.
Not needing to buy rail covers and maintaining a slim tube to grip are nice attributes, especially if you can hold onto them without cooking your hand.
My rebuilt 9mm - a Nodak Spud lower, RRA upper, ACS and 13" Troy TRX Extreme:
http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac123/HDF62/NoDak-9mm-2.jpg
The more I think about it the more tempted I am to go full awn white trash and just thread the heaviest duy key ring I can find through a couple of the holes to act as a loop to attach a HK hook to.
I just can't bring myself to attach a piece of rail, then buy a sling mount to mount to that rail, all just to snap a sling to.
I'll keep on looking, still have to pick up a sling to put on whatever mount I end up with.
edit: Redneck is as redneck does. Had to give it a shot to see if it would even work.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/new%20ar%20build/newar21.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/new%20ar%20build/newar22.jpg
Figure folks have been using 550 cord and plastic buckles to hold slings together for years, this might just hold up for a while, just have to see. Sure it might fail spectacularly in the "rappel down a cliff using nothing but your rifle sling" test, so I'll just have to avoid that one.:D
I may go completely crazy and thread some heat shrink tubing on there so it doesn't rattle, have to see.
Looking at mine this morning, I wonder how cutting down the 4" rail to just long enough for a HK loop adapter would work? It would only attach via a single screw, but I think that'd be OK. I think the 4" would work better for this than a shorter one because you can crop on either side of the inner hole.
Depending on how bored I get sitting on my ass the next couple days, I may have the wife bring me parts and tools so I can play around with different mounting ideas. I need to order some parts as well so I can go play after the doc clears me to walk again.
I was thinking more about this today. I'm halfassed tempted to just order the ARPerformance flush mount and snap in a QD loop.
Sling mount for the Troy version. Now they need to address the VTAC Extreme.
Scroll to bottom of page.
AR15 Performance Sling mount (http://www.ar15performance.com/new_products)
I wrapped my VTAC sling with a small piece of duct tape, fed it through the VTAC TRX, and while somewhat ghetto it works great. No sling adapter- $0 and 0 oz.
Sling mount for the Troy version. Now they need to address the VTAC Extreme.
Scroll to bottom of page.
AR15 Performance Sling mount (http://www.ar15performance.com/new_products)
I'm aware of this mount, think it was posted earlier in the thread. Looks like a slick lil unit, I'm just not all that thrilled with the plastic backing nut that holds it on there.
I wrapped my VTAC sling with a small piece of duct tape, fed it through the VTAC TRX, and while somewhat ghetto it works great. No sling adapter- $0 and 0 oz.
You my friend are a redneck god, and that's coming from someone who threaded a keyring through his floater tube for grins.:p
Gentle Ben
11-27-09, 11:51
I picked up one of the new 13" TRXs awhile back for a build I was working on.
The carbine is pretty much all Noveske (picked up a couple of stripped lowers before the '08 election) with a LMT ambi LPK and LMT SOPMOD buttstock assy.
I haven't had a chance to wring it out yet, but so far I like the balance and the streamlined, "no superfluous rails" profile, which allows me to get my support hand all the way out forward. The rail on the bottom near the muzzle has a rubber ladder cover on it, and gives me a nice index point for my hand, and because it functions as an index point and a stop, I'm going to try to run it without a VFG.
The crucible will be Pat Rogers' carbine course at Southern Exposure in a few weeks. Hopefully it won't meet the inglorious fate that many home-built carbines do. :eek:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a353/Snail50/PB260123.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a353/Snail50/PB260124.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a353/Snail50/PB260125.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a353/Snail50/PB260126.jpg
sniperfrog
11-27-09, 11:58
What length barrel is that, 14.5? Looks pretty sweet with the 13" TRX.
Gentle Ben
11-27-09, 12:01
it's a Noveske 14.5" with a permanently attached Surefire brake/suppressor mount to bring it to 16+"
Cinch it very tightly so the sling will not contact barrel or gas block.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/B055H0GG/VTACslingadapter.jpg
Blackheart International lower, Trijicon Accupoint TR21 1.25-4X Accupoint on LaRue SPR-E mount, VTAC TRX Extreme 11", VTAC sling, CMMG 14.5" lightweight midlength barrel with pinned Phantom FH. While I'm right handed, I keep the buttstock end of the sling fastened to the right side of the stock. Less interference.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/B055H0GG/VTACCMMG.jpg?t=1259352163
This "technique" also works on Blackheart's http://www.bhigear.com/bhiriflelengthhandguardforar-15carbine.aspxnew freefloat tubes.....5.45 barrel with a shaved FSB.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/B055H0GG/545sling-1.jpg?t=1259352952
it's a Noveske 14.5" with a permanently attached Surefire brake/suppressor mount to bring it to 16+"
Can you remove the hand guard now that the brake is permanently attached?
Can you remove the hand guard now that the brake is permanently attached? Yes, you can remove the Handguard/Main Tube from TROY/VTAC Extreme Rail Models with pinned muzzle devices that have a smaller OD than the ID of the tube.
SPDGG,
Thanks for the information.
Gentle Ben
11-28-09, 20:12
the handguard can be removed, as it will slip over the gas block and muzzle device.
the barrel nut (which is proprietary to this unit) cannot be removed once the muzzle device is permanently attached.
Ben,
How did your carbine perform at the EAG class in Lakeland?
Gentle Ben
12-28-09, 07:39
Ben,
How did your carbine perform at the EAG class in Lakeland?
Unfortunately, the carbine short-stroked on Wolf ammo (lower pressure than mil ammo), so I defaulted to my ugly & reliable LMT 10.5" for the course.
However, the Noveske ran great on M885 ball (with the H buffer), and when I put a standard carbine buffer in, it ran a bit better with Wolf, so I was able to run a couple of mags through it. I think that the gas port in the bbl is either too small, or that it was partially occluded by the gas block...shouldn't be too difficult to remedy.
Bear in mind that I only was able to get limited use out of the gun, but so far I like the VTAC rail. It's very streamlined and easy to grasp; the placement of the pic rails puts my accessories exactly where I need them, with no extraneous rail-estate; because the tube is so long, I can get my support arm out far enough that pronating my wrist forward is comfortable, which pretty much negates my need for a VFG.
One more question, honest.
Why the Surefire MB556K? Are you using an SF suppressor as well?
Gentle Ben
12-29-09, 08:48
I have several ARs configured for different purposes. For this rifle, I wanted to have the benefit of speed/control more than flash suppression.
I will be getting some Surefire suppressors in the near future, and one of them will be a demo can, which will be mounted on this rifle.
Guess I should update after all the slingmount talk, tried a few different methods and currently have a make do setup.
I didn't even try the ring dealio, it was mostly a joke, but tempting to try. In the end I was concerned with possible wear of the tube due to the steel ring moving against it.
Picked up a KNS sling stud mount for a regular AR handguard, but the diameter of the flanges that come with it are the same as the diameter of the holes in the guard, so it was a no go.
Ended up just throwing a short section of rail on there with an MI sling mount for an HK hook. I looked more at the DD mount that would go on the top rail in a horizontal fashion, but was concerned with wear since the HK hook would be going through a swivel mount. I may try it out at a later date since the current setup looks like a hodgepodge of crap and definatly is not as light as possible. For the time being, it'll do.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/new%20ar%20build/newar24.jpg
Are you talking about this stack?;)
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_1206-4.jpg
Holy sh*t:rolleyes:
Here's my solution to the front sling mount. Chop the rail section with the built-in QD.
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3741&d=1260221866
Here's my solution to the front sling mount. Chop the rail section with the built-in QD.
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3741&d=1260221866
I think VT sells a QD for their own rails that mounts from the inside through the slots.
I like that chopped TD. I did a couple of my own like that but kept the cap.
I think VT sells a QD for their own rails that mounts from the inside through the slots..I'm pretty sure they don't. I chatted with Kyle about this just last month, and he said they might start offering the chopped long rail. They DO have a sweet low-pro rail-mount QD in the works.
I like that chopped TD. I did a couple of my own like that but kept the cap.Thanks. This one is a stubby that I cut down even further since I only use 2 fingers on it. Realized I didn't need the cap either, especially non-functional.
spankaveli
12-30-09, 18:16
Does anyone know the shortest one of these i'd need to cover hte gas block on a 16" carbine? 9"?
The 9" will cover a carbine gas system. 11" if you have a midlength.
spankaveli
12-30-09, 18:25
The 9" will cover a carbine gas system. 11" if you have a midlength.
thank you.
lethal dose
01-10-10, 18:27
what gas blocks are you guys running? larue makes one that would cover both fsb markings, however... i'm concerned about the whole dimple-set screw ordeal. on the other hand, if not done right... shaving your fsb can look terrible. you guys have good luck with the low pro blocks?
what gas blocks are you guys running? larue makes one that would cover both fsb markings, however... i'm concerned about the whole dimple-set screw ordeal. on the other hand, if not done right... shaving your fsb can look terrible. you guys have good luck with the low pro blocks?
I just shaved the FSB. If you take your time it will turn out just fine, and if it doesn't, the rail will cover it anyway, you'll hardly be able to see it.
I guess this is kind of a necro, but Viking Tactics seems to have a nice little QD rail mount for the Extreme rails (or any rail, for that matter) that they displayed at Shot. I figured with all the discussion in this thread about various ways to mount a QD sling swivel, it was relevant. Hopefully Tac40 doesn't mind me linking people to his thread: http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1985
Or more specifically, the right mount shown in this picture:
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu319/horseplay/SHOT%20show%202010%20Las%20Vegas/vtacrail3.jpg
Good reason to bump slippers.
I saw that link and am not sure what I think about it. I have a sling mounted higher than the barrel axis on one gun and I'm not sure what I think about it.
One thing that I do like about it is that it gets a two-point sling out of the way of a Redimag better.
I guess this is kind of a necro, but Viking Tactics seems to have a nice little QD rail mount for the Extreme rails (or any rail, for that matter) that they displayed at Shot. I figured with all the discussion in this thread about various ways to mount a QD sling swivel, it was relevant. Hopefully Tac40 doesn't mind me linking people to his thread: http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1985
Or more specifically, the right mount shown in this picture:
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu319/horseplay/SHOT%20show%202010%20Las%20Vegas/vtacrail3.jpg
How thick is the mount? Let's say I wanted to use the mount plus a light at the 9 o"clock, would the light body ride over top of it if in a Vltor mount? I would use the E series that VTAC offers. So, at the end of the rail would be the light mount first, then the sling mount rght behind it.
I'm thinking the new Magpul RSA may be the killer mount for the Extreme rails...
Rails and sections were weighed today on US Postal scales.
Weights Just ----------Rail---------Rail w/nut
VTAC-EXT-13---------11.1 oz.-------12.6 oz.
VTAC-EXT-11----------9.7 oz.-------11.2 oz.
VTAC-EXT-9----------- 8.2 oz. --------9.7 oz.
VTAC-EXT-7------------7.0 oz. --------8.5 oz.
2" rail = .8 oz. 4" rail = 1.6 oz. Nut = 1.5 oz.
I realize this is an old post but I just noticed it for some reason.
9.0 rail you have listed at 8.2oz without nut and 9.7oz with. Troy quoted me 8.46oz and claimed that was for the tube including nut, but I'm starting to think that it is tube only. It would make sense that the VTAC version would weigh less than the standard version with the slots instead of holes.
Rails and sections were weighed today on US Postal scales.
Weights Just ----------Rail---------Rail w/nut
VTAC-EXT-13---------11.1 oz.-------12.6 oz.
VTAC-EXT-11----------9.7 oz.-------11.2 oz.
VTAC-EXT-9----------- 8.2 oz. --------9.7 oz.
VTAC-EXT-7------------7.0 oz. --------8.5 oz.
2" rail = .8 oz. 4" rail = 1.6 oz. Nut = 1.5 oz.
Very nice looking rail, like the weight and also the slim profile. unless i am dumping 200 rounds full auto, i like the advantage it provide on giving the gun a lower profile on barricade and also better to wrap my hands around it.
I still haven't given up on finding a decent sling mounting option.
Most recent glimer of home is the DD-7300, only problem is it's $47, which is a bit steep for a sling mount in my mind.
http://www.operationparts.com/v/vspfiles/photos/DD-7300-2T.jpg
Next on the horizon is the Magpul RSA which should answer the problem nicely, it's just a matter of waiting on it being released. Supposed to be just under $25, and can be seen in the following vid (can't find a pic online yet).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RidKP_TxD0&feature=player_embedded
You can bet I'll be jumping on the RSA as soon as it's released, just hope it's sometime in the near future and not vaporware.
Viking Tactics now has their new sling mount on their site: http://vikingtactics.com/prod_vtac_lpsm.html
At $39.95 it's a bit pricey. :(
The little magpul leaflet picture floating around shows the RSA release as spring 2010: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2531/4290112055_5bdbea1e9a.jpg
SMGLee has a nice pic from the shot show of the RSA on what looks like a troy trx standard rail:
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/ss10/huge/P1030659.jpg
Thank you for posting the pic/link "Slippers, Appreciate it.
I just cut down a 3" TRX-E rail Section & added a Daniels Defense QD Mount @ 9 O'Clock, its solid.
IMHO: The VTAC Top Side/QD Mount is a great option for these TRX-E rail systems. But, Agree not 100% sure I'd like the higher mounting position vs. 9 O'Clock/Side mount. Probably a minor challenge & just need to get familiar with it, Train.
VIKING TACTICS LOW PROFILE SLING MOUNT
http://vikingtactics.com/prod_vtac_lpsm.html
Have a great one
Guys, all these are is the new Troy Extreme rails (http://www.troyind.com/TRXrails.html) with a V-tac logo on them and slots instead of holes, much like the old ones were JP tubes with the V-tac logo and a couple of minor tweaks. I have not found the weights either and am still waiting for Troy to get back to me. Guess I should ping them again.
Bear in mind that of course they are going to weigh less, they also offer less in terms of mounting locations and heat protection. On the one hand, yes it's nice to be able to mount rail sections where you want/need them and only in that spot, but those rail sections and the covers most of us put on them do a lot to protect our hands from the heat generated by the barrel.
I'd like to try one of the 9.0 versions, but I'm apprehensive at best.
Vtac version
http://www.vikingtactics.com/images/vtac_xtreme_rail.jpg
Troy version
http://www.troyind.com/Images1/trx_extreme.jpg
I think i would have kept the larue for over all looks and quality, added rail space when needed without the worry of having to add rails along with weight when needed. your rail now outweighs the larue and you have nothing to shield your hands from the heat.
I think i would have kept the larue for over all looks and quality, added rail space when needed without the worry of having to add rails along with weight when needed. your rail now outweighs the larue and you have nothing to shield your hands from the heat.
Owners have reported that as long as you're not dropping several hundred rounds in minutes, the heat isn't an issue.
As for "quality," how do you measure that? Do you own both rails like the OP, and have some definitive measure that Larue's "quality" is better than Troy's? I ask this as a serious question. Obviously the OP was content enough with it to use it over his Larue.
Looks/feel are obviously subjective to the user's personal tastes/opinions, so if you do like how it looks and feels, and don't need the accessory rails, then at $165-$175 you have a well priced, extremely low profile, and lightweight freefloat rail system from a reputable company.
Will these work with a standard front sight assembly? I have never seen any pictures of any mounted that way. I would like to mount one on my BCM midlength.
I building a "hunting" AR, 16 inch midlength barrel and this looks like the handguard I want.
Any sharp edges to it? (either the VTAC or TROY version)
I'm planning to use an 11 inch handguard over a low profile gas block. Any thoughts on which gas blocks will fit under it?
spamsammich
02-24-10, 22:15
I building a "hunting" AR, 16 inch midlength barrel and this looks like the handguard I want.
Any sharp edges to it? (either the VTAC or TROY version)
I'm planning to use an 11 inch handguard over a low profile gas block. Any thoughts on which gas blocks will fit under it?
I had a 13 incher that had some poor deburring along the ejection port side of the rail, at the trailing and leading edges of the slots. I didn't care so much so I just hit the burrs with a file and some Birchwood Casey Aluminum Black, now all is good. You might ask your retailer to inspect the rail before they send it out. I have a feeling I just got a Friday, 4:45 rail or something. Shit happens. I've missed out on deburr myself before and had things go all the way through anodizing :(
Thanks, I can live with (and get rid of) a burr here and there, just didn't want to buy one only to find out it's full of sharp edges.
Will these work with a standard front sight assembly? I have never seen any pictures of any mounted that way. I would like to mount one on my BCM midlength.
Wondering the same?
Wondering the same?
Yep. Got mine set up today, actually. I used a 9 in vtac extreme on my bcm 16" midlength:
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6425/vtac9midlength.jpg
Without a magazine it weighs in at 7 lb 2 oz including the vtac low profile sling mount, aimpoint w/adm mount, and kac micro buis. I realize most people go with the longer rail and a low profile gas block, but I really like the standard fsb.
Yep. Got mine set up today, actually. I used a 9 in vtac extreme on my bcm 16" midlength:
Exactly how mine is gonna work out.
Did you leave the handguard cap behind the FSB, or take it off? How "tight" does the rail sit to the FSB without it?
Exactly how mine is gonna work out.
Did you leave the handguard cap behind the FSB, or take it off? How "tight" does the rail sit to the FSB without it?
I took it off. There's less than 1/8" between the fsb and rail, so it won't fit (plus, I think it would look pretty strange).
I took it off. There's less than 1/8" between the fsb and rail, so it won't fit (plus, I think it would look pretty strange).
Exactly what I wanted to see. :D Thanks man.
spamsammich
02-25-10, 02:04
Thanks, I can live with (and get rid of) a burr here and there, just didn't want to buy one only to find out it's full of sharp edges.
When properly finished, the only sharp edges are along the rail. I'm fairly confident mine is a rare case. I'm looking forward to using more of these rails on future builds. This with a DD pencil barrel would be the heat!
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/Centurion%20upper_files/IMG_2670.jpg
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/Centurion%20upper_files/IMG_2693.jpg
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/Centurion%20upper_files/IMG_2691.jpg
Yep. Got mine set up today, actually. I used a 9 in vtac extreme on my bcm 16" midlength: I realize most people go with the longer rail and a low profile gas block, but I really like the standard fsb.
That is the set up I am leaning towards also, thanks.
When properly finished, the only sharp edges are along the rail. I'm fairly confident mine is a rare case. I'm looking forward to using more of these rails on future builds. This with a DD pencil barrel would be the heat!
As I'm sure you know, not all rails are created equal when it comes to sharp edges! <G> Don't recall which brand it was, but I had one rail handguard that was so full of sharp edges that it was like hanging onto a cheese grater, and REQUIRED rail covers on any exposed rail sections.
Yep. Got mine set up today, actually. I used a 9 in vtac extreme on my bcm 16" midlength:
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6425/vtac9midlength.jpg
Without a magazine it weighs in at 7 lb 2 oz including the vtac low profile sling mount, aimpoint w/adm mount, and kac micro buis. I realize most people go with the longer rail and a low profile gas block, but I really like the standard fsb.
That is exactly the set up I was thinking of, thanks for posting. I have looked all over and not found a pic. I have a BCM middy needing a rail.
Has anyone ran these in a class hard to see how it handles heat transfer?
spamsammich
02-25-10, 12:19
Viking Tactics now has their new sling mount on their site: http://vikingtactics.com/prod_vtac_lpsm.html
At $39.95 it's a bit pricey. :(
No more so than offerings from Daniel Defense or Gear Sector. Hell, even Midwest has a heavy duty mount that costs as much. Pricey seems to be the going rate.
Has anyone ran these in a class hard to see how it handles heat transfer?
While making sure everything ran right with my new upper, I dumped 240 rds as fast as I could pull the trigger and change mags. Yes the rail got hot, but I expect any rail would with that type of firing. Had I been wearing gloves it would not have been an issue. Normal rates of fire were fine, no issue with bare hands.
No more so than offerings from Daniel Defense or Gear Sector. Hell, even Midwest has a heavy duty mount that costs as much. Pricey seems to be the going rate.
That's why I'm hoping Magpul releases their RSA fairly soon and keeps to the price point they stated in the SHOT video (mid $20 range). Till then the rail section and MI mount will work, even if it isn't exactly optimal from a weight and comfort standpoint.
spamsammich
02-25-10, 17:14
While making sure everything ran right with my new upper, I dumped 240 rds as fast as I could pull the trigger and change mags. Yes the rail got hot, but I expect any rail would with that type of firing. Had I been wearing gloves it would not have been an issue. Normal rates of fire were fine, no issue with bare hands.
I was using a BCM middy with standard hand guards and my new Centurion barrel based upper and noted a dramatic difference in cool down time between the two barrels. Of course some of that will be a result of the thinner profile Centurion barrel but I'm sure the rail helped. It certainly didn't act as an insulator. I could see the heat rising from the barrel when I was using the MBUS. I'm sure if somebody were to email Kyle Lamb, he'd give you an honest answer.
I just wanted to add that CS from Rainier and VTAC have been pretty good for me so far. Technical support has been prompt, shipping of products has been super speedy.
GLOCKMASTER
02-26-10, 19:24
VTAC Extreme rail on a new Bravo Company 14.5" mid length upper.
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0214.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0218.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0222.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0227.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0235.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0239-1.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0242-2.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0247-2.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0250-1.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0266-1.jpg
Can we back off and get a full side view? That looks nice and purposeful!
GLOCKMASTER
02-27-10, 07:37
Can we back off and get a full side view? That looks nice and purposeful!
Ask and you shall receive.
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0212-1.jpg
Don't seem to be many vendors carrying these. I emailed Brownells as they carry Troy, and they carry VTAC, but don't have the Troy VTAC rail listed.
I purchased mine direct and had it on my doorstep the next day. I do live only 90 miles away, though. VTAC customer service is top notch, for sure.
So I noticed that using the 3 o'clock or 9'clock accessory rail locations to mount my surefire scout caused issues with my grip. On either side, using the forward most slot for the accessory rail resulted in interference when I tried to wrap my fingers around the tube.
I next tried to use the 1:30 slot. Not only would this clear the tube for my grip, it would also reduce the overall width of the entire front end, and move the accessory rail forward an inch. Unfortunately, if you do this, the accessory rail sits too close to the top permanent rail, so it's impossible to mount anything on it.
A quick trip down to Ace Hardware solved the issue. I picked up:
Two: 3/4" 10-24 button cap screws (Ace part # 3882-K)
Six: 3/8" od 3/16" id 1/16" thick black nylon washers (Ace part # 58058-m)
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/7609/vt001.jpg
The 3/4" long screw is too long on its own, and will hit the barrel, so you first slip one nylon washer over it, before sticking it through the accessory rail:
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5542/vt005.jpg
You then flip the accessory rail over and drop two nylon washers over the screw:
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/7448/vt006.jpg
Next, since you're not using the 3/6/9 o'clock slots in the rail, you need to reverse the backplate, so the ridge in it points at your barrel. The 1:30, 4:30, 7:30, and 10:30 slots in the rail do not have the indexing cut, so using the flat side of the backplate will result in a much better fit (shown here screwed into the backplate while not installed):
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/2116/vt007.jpg
Without the indexing cut/ridge, you might think the rail could shift within the slot, but this isn't the case. The specific nylon washers we're using will index the rail properly, as they just barely fit into the beveled edge of the slots. Here's the side view after installation. Notice that the bottom washer is half visible:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/5827/vt008.jpg
And finally showing the surefire scout on the rail, with enough clearance from the top rail to allow easy installation and removal:
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/5558/vt010.jpg
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/8499/vt009.jpg
Yes, I don't have the tape switch plugged in for the picture. The nylon washers can handle up to about 300 degrees F, so if your rail is that hot, you won't be holding it anyways.
teamacacia
02-28-10, 19:10
What kind of red marker, grease pen, etc are you using to mark your screw/bolt positions?
VTAC Extreme rail on a new Bravo Company 14.5" mid length upper.
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0214.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0218.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0222.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0227.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0235.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0239-1.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0242-2.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0247-2.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0250-1.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0266-1.jpg
GLOCKMASTER
02-28-10, 20:46
What kind of red marker, grease pen, etc are you using to mark your screw/bolt positions?
Testors Paint Pen. You can find them at Michael's Craft stores.
teamacacia
02-28-10, 20:55
Thanks,
Not sure if I have a Michael's close by but I'll also check out the local Hobby Lobby. Had a silver paint pen and it would wipe off if the paint got the least bit wet.
spamsammich
02-28-10, 23:14
Silver paint pen comes off pretty easy with solvents. Make sure you degrease the area you will paint with brake cleaner.
Really like the VTAC Extreme rail but it is just begging to have integrated flush cup QD mounts at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions toward the rear of the rail. There seems to be a nice solid spot there that could accommodate an integrated QD there.
For that matter, the rear edge could also use a bit of taper like the original VTAC.
This is the right concept but am holding off to see where certain areas can be improved. Rear 9 o'clock QDs are a requirement for me nowadays....
Uchida paint pens rule and are at Michaels.
One thing about this tube- install the rail panels before you install the tube! The 6:00 position is particularly important.
I also like the fact that the price on these has come down.
One thing about this tube- install the rail panels before you install the tube! The 6:00 position is particularly important.
Why is that? And what do you do if you need to move things around after you install the tube?
Why is that? And what do you do if you need to move things around after you install the tube?
If you have a low profile gas block you can just slide the tube off, move the accessory rails wherever you want, and put it back on.
Even if you want to install them without removing the tube from the rifle first, it's still relatively easy to install accessory rails if you're patient.
VTAC Extreme rail on a new Bravo Company 14.5" mid length upper.
Is that a hammer forged BCM barrel?
How much does the carbine weigh?
spamsammich
03-01-10, 22:54
I screwed up and installed my lower rail right in the path of my Stag gas block. I still managed to slide it into position and attach it without removing the rail. Just took some creativity.
I picked up a Noveske VTAC with one of these rails - so far, I'm really liking it. However, I'm also searching for a front QD socket solution like many in this thread. I'm considering the VTAC LPSM, but I thought I read in a VTAC course AAR that VTAC might be offering a 2" rail adapter with a QD socket...apparently some people have been cutting the 4" in half with some success. The 4" with socket is just a bit too long, adds rail in places I don't want to mount extra rail (which sort of defeats the purposes of such a slick handguard).
Has anyone read about a new QD solution or should I just go ahead and get the LPSM?
I picked up a Noveske VTAC with one of these rails - so far, I'm really liking it. However, I'm also searching for a front QD socket solution like many in this thread. I'm considering the VTAC LPSM, but I thought I read in a VTAC course AAR that VTAC might be offering a 2" rail adapter with a QD socket...apparently some people have been cutting the 4" in half with some success. The 4" with socket is just a bit too long, adds rail in places I don't want to mount extra rail (which sort of defeats the purposes of such a slick handguard).
Has anyone read about a new QD solution or should I just go ahead and get the LPSM?
I opted for cutting the 4" in half. It has worked fine.
PJ
I opted for cutting the 4" in half. It has worked fine.
PJ
I'm certainly considering that...it seems like enough people are doing it that they should sell them that way.
spamsammich
03-13-10, 20:56
i use this:
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/Centurion%20upper_files/IMG_2712.jpg
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/Centurion%20upper_files/IMG_2713.jpg
Got it straight from the VTAC website.
i use this:
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/Centurion%20upper_files/IMG_2712.jpg
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/Centurion%20upper_files/IMG_2713.jpg
Got it straight from the VTAC website.
Has that caused any akwardness or problems because it is mounted on the top rail?
If not, I am def down for one of those.
PJ
spamsammich
03-13-10, 21:20
No problems.
tr1kstanc3
03-13-10, 22:46
Uchida paint pens rule and are at Michaels.
Sorry for the off topic post but how does one remove the paint once applied? Been looking at getting some paint pens myself.
tr1kstanc3
03-13-10, 22:49
Yep. Got mine set up today, actually. I used a 9 in vtac extreme on my bcm 16" midlength:
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6425/vtac9midlength.jpg
Without a magazine it weighs in at 7 lb 2 oz including the vtac low profile sling mount, aimpoint w/adm mount, and kac micro buis. I realize most people go with the longer rail and a low profile gas block, but I really like the standard fsb.
I really like how you set this up. I am looking at doing the same thing once the BCM light weight middy comes out.
Originally Posted by Slippers
Yep. Got mine set up today, actually. I used a 9 in vtac extreme on my bcm 16" midlength:
Great looking setup - out of curiosity is any part of the gas tube exposed? Would awful things happen if I had the same setup but shaved down the FSB to fit under the rail? (I don't mind an exposed gas block, just worried about the tube)
Great looking setup - out of curiosity is any part of the gas tube exposed? Would awful things happen if I had the same setup but shaved down the FSB to fit under the rail? (I don't mind an exposed gas block, just worried about the tube)
There's less than a 1/8" gap between the rail and the FSB, which is about the same as a 9" DD lite would leave in the same setup. The gas tube is well protected.
If you intend to shave down your pinned FSB it should be fine. A VTAC extreme 11" rail instead of 9" will completely cover a low profile gas block or shaved FSB on a mid-length barrel.
Just curious, but is the rail itself removable once installed over a low-profile gas block w/ permanent muzzle device?
While it may not be likely, I want to know if it's possible to only remove the rail (not the nut) for maintenance, e.g., replace gas tube.
Also, how easy is it to install lengths of rail once the rail is installed on the upper? Is there enough room to
Or are folks removing the rail to install rail for grips, lights, BUIS, QD sling mount, et al?
Just trying to do some planning beforehand since I'm one of those "special people" who like the 14.5" + perm FS. :D
Thanks.
TwoSqueeze
05-23-10, 11:41
Just curious, but is the rail itself removable once installed over a low-profile gas block w/ permanent muzzle device?
While it may not be likely, I want to know if it's possible to only remove the rail (not the nut) for maintenance, e.g., replace gas tube.
Also, how easy is it to install lengths of rail once the rail is installed on the upper? Is there enough room to
Yes the rail is very easily removed after install. You simply loosen the two allen screws near the barrell nut and slide the rail off. I have added the rail sections with the rail removed and installed. It was slightly more difficult to install the sections with the rail installed but not by much.
-TS
Robb Jensen
05-23-10, 11:57
These are great FF tube/rails. I have two 13" ones, 1 on my 3gun rifle (16" SS410 BCM midlength) and 1 on my hunting gun 16" WOA midlength. My Tac Sol .22 upper has a 11" one on it.
I do wish they made a few other sizes like a 12" and a 15". A 15" would be bad ass on my 3gun rifle and would nearly cover the entire barrel. When I get my 12.5" BCM upper I'm going to do a shave on the FSB and install a 11" VTAC/Troy tube on it with a BCM/DD front sight and a Surefire X300 in front of it.
Hey, do you guys think I will be able to use an M42000 mounted on an AAC brake with an 11.5 barrel and 11 troy rail?
Its looking like no from the pictures of 11.5s with 11 extreme rails.
I think I am gonna make it work anyway, will just shave down the front a little bit.
TwoSqueeze
05-23-10, 15:58
Hey, do you guys think I will be able to use an M42000 mounted on an AAC brake with an 11.5 barrel and 11 troy rail?
Its looking like no from the pictures of 11.5s with 11 extreme rails.
I think I am gonna make it work anyway, will just shave down the front a little bit.
It will not work as configured. You will have to cut about .5 inches off the front of the rail and reanodize it.
-TS
NCSt8man1999
05-23-10, 21:25
I have not read all the posts, but in case someone has not mentioned it, the VTAC Extreme rail is offered as a complete upper on BCM now....
and Noveske.
i like the look. might pick up for future hunting ar.:D
I have a 13" VTAC rail coming for a build using a 18" Noveske SPR barrel and I'm trying to decide on a top tier upper receiver. I also like the Rainier XTC compensator I have on a 16" mid length - Rainer has a special on their Billet Upper that includes a free XTC compensator.
Is there any reason the Rainier Billet upper would be less than optimal for use with the VTAC rail? I know zip about billet uppers.
Any feedback appreciated.
GotM4 installed this exact upper with a Noveske 18" SPR barrel and the VTAC Extreme 13" rail for me - works great. I'll try to grab a picture of the upper this evening.
Cheers,
Pk
GotM4 installed this exact upper with a Noveske 18" SPR barrel and the VTAC Extreme 13" rail for me - works great. I'll try to grab a picture of the upper this evening.
Cheers,
Pk
Thanks! That gives me the confidence I was looking for on the Rainier Billet upper.
I have the standard Troy rail and I LOVE it.
http://www.pakieser.com/firearms/ar15/ar15-troy-600-2.JPG
No wasted rails, and a nice light weight.
Hmmmmmm, I'm not sure but I'm thinking I like the holes over the slots. Since that appears to be the only difference, I wonder if there is a weight advantage to speak of. Probably not, but who knows. Love them both.
I got the 11 inch VTAC rail and it is everything a FF rail should be and nothing it shouldn't. I own 2 Larue rails (11.0,12.0) and two DD omega rails (both 9). I think the VTAC exceeds those. I really like the way it fits the hand it works with my FUG really well.
I will be buying more of these rails in the future. :)
as well as the M&P VTAC 9 :cool:
Just got back from the gunsmith who installed the rail (I have like NO tools to do any sort of work with, just screwdrivers and a hammer).
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/UPSkald/IMG_0290.jpg
VTAC 9" on a 12.5" BCM SBR
Love it. Was thinking of a Larue or DD, but after reading the thread, decided to give it a whirl and so glad I did.
Jeff, thanks for ALL the help you've given me in your own set up, as well as answering some questions.
I installed the 13" VTAC rail on a 16" barrel and it looks great. My only complaint is that the rail does get hot after about 3 mag dumps.
GLOCKMASTER
06-10-10, 20:12
Just got back from the gunsmith who installed the rail (I have like NO tools to do any sort of work with, just screwdrivers and a hammer).
VTAC 9" on a 12.5" BCM SBR
Love it. Was thinking of a Larue or DD, but after reading the thread, decided to give it a whirl and so glad I did.
Jeff, thanks for ALL the help you've given me in your own set up, as well as answering some questions.
You're welcome....I hope you enjoy it.....:cool:
I just saw this over on TOS.
From: Impact Weapons Systems/Mount-In-Slot
"A MOUNT-N-SLOT for Magpul's MS2 & MS3 slings and Push-button Quick Detach in full 360 degree Rotation and a Rotation Limited Quick Detach be the first ones available."
"We'll have a rotation limited and full 360 rotation versions available for the 2" OD hand guards made by PRI, JP, MI Industries and Viking Tactics as well as the versions for 1.75" OD hand guards made by Troy for Troy and Viking Tactics.
We made some improvements in the design of these new MOUNT-N-SLOT brand Direct Attach Mounts. They only have three total parts, have a lower profile, and are less total weight than the current MOUNT-N-SLOT brand Direct Attach Mounts for MOE's and ACR's...
Price: $32.95 ..."
TOS Thread (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=399&t=189768)
Troy needs to establish a proper torque range on these. 1/2 turn past finger tight is a very wide range. 1/2 turn is easy, but my finger tight is hand tight to alot. I'm sure this is true to alot of other users.
My barrel is on it's way back from ADCO(gas block pin), I'll get the rail back on and give it some time. I tightened it per instructions and when I took it off after test fire(three mags), it was looser than "1/2 turn past hand tight" I'll place witness marks on it and if needed use red. If mine strip, I'll work a small 3/16" steel plate and thread two holes instead of using two nuts. Troy should've done this instead of the little inserts. It would be easy to shape a plate that would fit over or slightly recessed into the tab.
spamsammich
06-30-10, 12:21
I agree, the recommended torque range is way too vague for my liking. I am used to building things with this type of "torque to feel" method but it would probably help them out with warranty claims and CS issues if they published a number. I like your idea about a threaded plate vs a helicoil.
fwiw, I've had blue loctite heat up enough to let a screw loosen up when I checked it at the range.
Just got back from the gunsmith who installed the rail (I have like NO tools to do any sort of work with, just screwdrivers and a hammer).
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/UPSkald/IMG_0290.jpg
VTAC 9" on a 12.5" BCM SBR
Love it. Was thinking of a Larue or DD, but after reading the thread, decided to give it a whirl and so glad I did.
Jeff, thanks for ALL the help you've given me in your own set up, as well as answering some questions.
That looks fantastic. What are you planning to unse in terms of optics?
eternal24k
07-01-10, 11:59
Troy needs to establish a proper torque range on these. 1/2 turn past finger tight is a very wide range. 1/2 turn is easy, but my finger tight is hand tight to alot. I'm sure this is true to alot of other users.
I can't believe they did not provide a measurable torque range, especially on a crucial part of a fighting rifle.
I hope to have my upper back by tomorrow from ADCO. I'll try to see if I can establish the torque based on Troy's instructions. Maybe that'll help keep people out of trouble by giving them a range.
That looks fantastic. What are you planning to unse in terms of optics?
I am still leaning towards an H-1 right now, but want to research out the new Eotechs. Any one with some info that can tell me the different new models it would be great.
I was going to go the 7" carbine length, but after talking to Jeff, went the 9" length and it is so nice. It is balanced pretty nicely, and love the way it feels in my hand.
Ok, got the upper back and put it together with the 1/2 turn past finger tight, I went real easy on the finger tight and used red loc-tite. If I have problems, I'll try a bit more, if that doesn't work, someone will get a great deal on this rail.
I used a "weight scale" type wrench and it appears that 12-15 inch pounds is the range, extreme low-high would be 10-18 inch pounds. I didn't want to over do it and break it, I believe the torgue I put on it would "be normal"
Hope that helps out! Maybe Troy will see this and publish their findings.
this is my bushmaster XM-15ES that i purchased pre-election, and before discovering this site, and then learning the joy's of building your own. :D also had zero problems installing, when tightening the handguard clamp screws i simply went back and forth using gentle pressure( think of using a 6-40 tap) until they would tighten no further. your not torquing on a hemi head so turn down the torque on your elbow5455
5456
5457
Saint Michael Arms
07-05-10, 20:17
Forgive me, but I skimmed the thread and did not see an answer....did we establish if the VTAC was lighter than the Troy version given the long slots vice the port holes?
I'd love to see an exact weight comparison.
i use this:
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/Centurion%20upper_files/IMG_2712.jpg
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/Centurion%20upper_files/IMG_2713.jpg
Got it straight from the VTAC website.
Anyone know if the VTAC sling mount is avalible at any dealers? I'm a cheap bastard and hate pay $10 shipping on a single item that only weighs a few ounces. :cool:
Anyone know if the VTAC sling mount is avalible at any dealers? I'm a cheap bastard and hate pay $10 shipping on a single item that only weighs a few ounces. :cool:
PM sent
Forgive me, but I skimmed the thread and did not see an answer....did we establish if the VTAC was lighter than the Troy version given the long slots vice the port holes?
I'd love to see an exact weight comparison.
I believe that the Troy is actually lighter than the VTAC from the numbers I've seen from Troy. I will have both shortly, but not of the same length.
Anyone know if the VTAC sling mount is avalible at any dealers? I'm a cheap bastard and hate pay $10 shipping on a single item that only weighs a few ounces. :cool:
Ordered mine yesterday from gotm4 at Va. Arms--same time I did the Warren sights for the G34.
I was also talking about the torque specs and gotM4 said he's going a tad heavier, 20-25 inch lbs.
Failure2Stop
07-06-10, 08:28
I was also talking about the torque specs and gotM4 said he's going a tad heavier, 20-25 inch lbs.
I have 2 uppers with the VTAC/Troy handguards; one I got as a complete upper from Bravo Company, and one I had gotM4 put on an old BCM upper. The one gotM4 put on displays identifiable narrowing of the gap at the clamp screws. I you are going to have sights or optics mounted on the HG, I think this is the way to go.
PM sent
Thanks Brother. I'll keep you posted.
Anyone have a photo of a 11" vtac rail on a 14.5 barrel with a perm attached flash hider? I just want to see how it looks before I go to purchase.
Anyone have a photo of a 11" vtac rail on a 14.5 barrel with a perm attached flash hider? I just want to see how it looks before I go to purchase.
Not yet I will shortly it is in the works now. It will be an 11" rail with a perm AAC on a 14.5" BCM Middy. If you can wait a week or two I can hep out with a photo.
Anyone have a photo of a 11" vtac rail on a 14.5 barrel with a perm attached flash hider? I just want to see how it looks before I go to purchase.
I thought I had already posted this in this thread, but maybe not
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq10/tacticalyellowvisor/Reviews/Firearms%20and%20Accessories/BCM%20TandEs/DSC_5796.jpg
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq10/tacticalyellowvisor/Reviews/Firearms%20and%20Accessories/BCM%20TandEs/DSC_6128.jpg
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq10/tacticalyellowvisor/Reviews/Firearms%20and%20Accessories/BCM%20TandEs/DSC_6138.jpg
Anyone have a photo of a 11" vtac rail on a 14.5 barrel with a perm attached flash hider? I just want to see how it looks before I go to purchase.
Noveske 14.5 w/ 212A
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/DSCN0101.jpg
Ask and you shall receive. Now I really want mine back.
I may have missed it, thanks for posting. USMC, I look forward to seeing yours.
I thought I had already posted this in this thread, but maybe not
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq10/tacticalyellowvisor/Reviews/Firearms%20and%20Accessories/BCM%20TandEs/DSC_6128.jpg
Rob, whats the empty weight on this rifle?
anyone have a midlength vtac on a 14.5 inch w/ fsb or in a knio configuration? i would love to see pics of these two particular set ups.
thanks..
rob
TwoSqueeze
08-05-10, 13:01
Don't want to double post this information but in the following thread I am attempting to get a Magpul MVG to securely attach to the VTAC Rail.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=59563
-TS
In the last week I acquired a new Viking Tactics VTAC Extreme Battle rail manufactured by Troy Ind. I currently have the JP Enterprises version on an S&W M&P VTAC rifle and since I enjoy it so much, I thought I would give the new VTAC rail a try on my 10.5” LMT.
For starters I had to remove a LaRue 10" rail that was on the rifle. Two DPMS wrenches and a one PRI Barrel Nut Tool later I was able to remove the LaRue barrel nut. Once the LaRue Rail System was out of the way I was able to quickly and very easily install the new VTAC Rail without issue. The new VTAC Extreme Battle Rail comes with two 2" and one 4" rail sections. The 4" section comes with a sling attachment point milled into the section.
I really like this new rail system from Viking Tactics because it is so easy to remove for maintenance under the rail. One of the main selling points for me with the Viking Tactics rail systems is since I do not need all the rail estate that usually comes with most rail systems these days I can choose where I want place sections of rail that best suits me and my setup.
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_1679.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_1681.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_1701-1.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_1700-1.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_1696-1.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_1688-1.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_1990.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_2010.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_2024.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_2018.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/SBR/DSC_2019.jpg
Why did you use the VTAC sling atachment instead of the included rail with QD mount? Is it to prevent rotation? I have one being installed on my BCM Middy by Roob should have it soon!
My back hurts just looking at that stack of ammo.
Are you talking about this stack?;)
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_1206-4.jpg
ForTehNguyen
08-21-10, 08:17
would like to know how much an 11" would weigh with a middy LW barrel like the one being sold at BCM. I did a on paper calc and I didnt see much weight benefit over a standard FST LW middy with plastic handguards.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-LIGHT-WEIGHT-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-mid-16lw%20vtrx11.htm
GLOCKMASTER
08-21-10, 08:22
Why did you use the VTAC sling atachment instead of the included rail with QD mount? Is it to prevent rotation? I have one being installed on my BCM Middy by Roob should have it soon!
I originally installed that piece of rail however, for me it was too long for my SBR setup.
GLOCKMASTER
08-21-10, 08:25
My back hurts just looking at that stack of ammo.
That's a small stack for us.
Now instead of it being stored in my office it's now stored like this.
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0527.jpg
With an already assembled (Troy) VTAC Extreme upper, is it a straight swap with a Troy TRX Extreme rail?
PrivateCitizen
09-09-10, 00:45
With an already assembled (Troy) VTAC Extreme upper, is it a straight swap with a Troy TRX Extreme rail?
Assuming you are using a low-pro gas block and not a standard front sight, yes. Loosen, remove. Place, tighten.
:thank_you2:
Wish there was a "popcorn" smilie.
I couldn't find anything specific about a question I have regarding this rail system in the thread.
I recently built a rifle using the Midwest Industries rail that is similar, at least in appearance, to this rail system. I had a lot of issues as far as where I could place the extra rail sections due to clearance with the gas tube and gas block; basically the only place I can mount rail sections is in the center of the rail system. I see that with this one some people have rail sections directly at the front and back of the rail, and just wanted to make sure there weren't any heavy modifications or big complications with the system to make this happen.
So, easy to install rail sections or not? Thanks!
Edit: Never mind, I believe this picture (http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu319/horseplay/SHOT%20show%202010%20Las%20Vegas/vtacrail2-1.jpg) answers my question.
dennisuello
10-12-10, 11:03
I couldn't find anything specific about a question I have regarding this rail system in the thread.
I recently built a rifle using the Midwest Industries rail that is similar, at least in appearance, to this rail system. I had a lot of issues as far as where I could place the extra rail sections due to clearance with the gas tube and gas block; basically the only place I can mount rail sections is in the center of the rail system. I see that with this one some people have rail sections directly at the front and back of the rail, and just wanted to make sure there weren't any heavy modifications or big complications with the system to make this happen.
So, easy to install rail sections or not? Thanks!
yes, very easy.
might have some problem around the gas block, depending on what GB you use, but in general, the backing plate is low profile, so it will work virtually anywhere on the rail.
yes, very easy.
might have some problem around the gas block, depending on what GB you use, but in general, the backing plate is low profile, so it will work virtually anywhere on the rail.
Cool, thank you for confirming that so quickly. I now know which hand guard will grace my new light weight gun. :D
How hot do the Troy / VTAC rails get compared to the JP/ vtac version.
That's a small stack for us.
Now instead of it being stored in my office it's now stored like this.
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0527.jpg
Now that is what I call a magazine! The loading dock is key! I could have fun there I am sure.
What gas blocks work best for these? I'm thinking up a 14.5" to 16" lightweight middy (Centurion or Noveske N4 barrel) and would like the 11" or 13" rail to cover the gas block. My gut reaction is to get the barrel with a normal FSB and shave it down for weight and cost savings, but if there's a better option that allows easier attachment of rail sections then I'm all ears.
-B
justin_247
10-16-10, 15:23
What gas blocks work best for these? I'm thinking up a 14.5" to 16" lightweight middy (Centurion or Noveske N4 barrel) and would like the 11" or 13" rail to cover the gas block. My gut reaction is to get the barrel with a normal FSB and shave it down for weight and cost savings, but if there's a better option that allows easier attachment of rail sections then I'm all ears.
-B
When I do mine, I'm planning on getting my barrel drilled for one of these:
https://www.danieldefense.com/img/product/1a54cefe518a103429559e1d7bdd3a35.jpg
https://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=283
What gas blocks work best for these? I'm thinking up a 14.5" to 16" lightweight middy (Centurion or Noveske N4 barrel) and would like the 11" or 13" rail to cover the gas block. My gut reaction is to get the barrel with a normal FSB and shave it down for weight and cost savings, but if there's a better option that allows easier attachment of rail sections then I'm all ears.
-B
I have a 16" Noveske midlength that started off as a N4 light basic. Had gotm4 remove my old DD M4 12.0 and install the 13" Vtac extreme - gas block is a shaved FSB on mine...works just fine.
The current plan is to turn a Noveske barrel to something between .600 and .625, either keeping the .750 FSB and shaving it or downsizing to a .625 FSB (which would also be shaved). It didn't occur to me until just now that the skinnier barrel might give a tad more room for playing with rail pieces.
Can rail pieces be added with the rail removed and the handguard installed after everything's in place?
-B
outrider627
10-16-10, 19:31
The current plan is to turn a Noveske barrel to something between .600 and .625, either keeping the .750 FSB and shaving it or downsizing to a .625 FSB (which would also be shaved). It didn't occur to me until just now that the skinnier barrel might give a tad more room for playing with rail pieces.
Can rail pieces be added with the rail removed and the handguard installed after everything's in place?
-B
Yeah you can add or remove rails while the TRX is installed, but it will be harder to add rails the closer you get to the receiver.
Yeah you can add or remove rails while the TRX is installed, but it will be harder to add rails the closer you get to the receiver.
I found it harder to get things installed in the center of the handguard. Just getting the screw to start is a bit of a pain, but once that was done I didn't have any problems at all. The sling attachment I installed at the furthest rearward point of the TRX rail was extremely easy to install because it was close enough to the back end of the rail that I could hold the internal part in place with my fingers.
I ordered a BCM 16" LW Middy (with the VTAC TRX 11" installed) as my FIRST AR:dance3: ... it's en route to me now. But today at the FunShow (I was picking up ammo and some other presents to bestow upon my BCM when it arrives) I had an opportunity to check out the VTAC TRX handguard and it was sure impressive... I loved the relatively small diameter (though it brings the hand closer to the heater!) and I'm sure I will love using it. Thanks to all here for this thread... it played a big part in my decision to go with the BCM 16" LW Middy with VTAC TRX handguard.
I'm interested in seeing how BCM is handling the gas block on this rifle.
justin_247
12-05-10, 16:44
What is the width and height of the tube with a rail section bolted on each side so that I can compare it with some quad rails?
Every single time I think I nearly have my next build figured out, new question pops in my head after holding a component in my hand.
It appears this handguard attaches to the stock barrel nut by a squeeze method. Is this correct? That doesn't seem very heavy duty. Almost like I could bend the handguard back and forth while pulling on it so as to slide it off the nut. Isn't there some method to actually lock the handguard to the barrel nut?
It appears this handguard attaches to the stock barrel nut by a squeeze method. Is this correct? That doesn't seem very heavy duty. Almost like I could bend the handguard back and forth while pulling on it so as to slide it off the nut. Isn't there some method to actually lock the handguard to the barrel nut?
The rail slides onto the nut at about 2 o'clock you then rock it left back to noon and then tighten the two allen head bolts. It is pretty solid.
Robb Jensen
12-05-10, 20:38
It appears this handguard attaches to the stock barrel nut by a squeeze method. Is this correct? That doesn't seem very heavy duty. Almost like I could bend the handguard back and forth while pulling on it so as to slide it off the nut. Isn't there some method to actually lock the handguard to the barrel nut?
Stock barrel nut? No, it comes with it's own.
Heavy duty? That's all relative.
The only things I hang off mine are a sling attachment (QD), Surefire X300 and a back up front sight. I would not mount optics or lasers or use it for a tow hook or air drop parachute connecting point. For everything else it works just fine.
The rail slides onto the nut at about 2 o'clock you then rock it left back to noon and then tighten the two allen head bolts. It is pretty solid.
Stock barrel nut? No, it comes with it's own.
Heavy duty? That's all relative.
The only things I hang off mine are a sling attachment (QD), Surefire X300 and a back up front sight. I would not mount optics or lasers or use it for a tow hook or air drop parachute connecting point. For everything else it works just fine.
Thanks for the info. I thought it slid on to the nut and then you tightened it down, with nothing keeping it from sliding off the nut but friction. Thanks for the clarification.
Has anybody had any problems with the tabs bending towards each other when tightening the screws? This would obviously change the axis of the screw holes.
I'm also looking at the MI SS12. How does the mounting and weight compare with the VTAC TRX?
It appears this handguard attaches to the stock barrel nut by a squeeze method. Is this correct? That doesn't seem very heavy duty. Almost like I could bend the handguard back and forth while pulling on it so as to slide it off the nut. Isn't there some method to actually lock the handguard to the barrel nut?
It does squeeze down, but on a proprietary nut. You give it a little twist at the end and it kind of locks down and then you tighten the 2 bolts. it's very secure. You can flex it some but I don't think the attachment point is giving. I think the whole unit just has some flex in it.
elkknuckle
12-05-10, 21:45
What is the width and height of the tube with a rail section bolted on each side so that I can compare it with some quad rails?
Every single time I think I nearly have my next build figured out, new question pops in my head after holding a component in my hand.
I don't think it has the width or height with a rail section on each side, but it's a start.
Link to free float rail chart:
http://tacticalyellowvisor.net/69016/69058.html
Thanks to all for this thread, reading it made me go with the VTAC extreme rail on my new Daniel Defense build.
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/Seagrave77/Private/IMG_5043c.jpg
Thanks to all for this thread, reading it made me go with the VTAC extreme rail on my new Daniel Defense build.
Very nice (brilliant minds think alike). My Troy 11" is in hand; just waiting for my LW DD stripped upper to show up.
Grim Fandango
12-25-10, 22:57
Hey all. I just installed a 13 inch Vtac on my rifle today, and I think I'm having an alignment issue. The top rail on the handguard doesn't line up with the top rail on the receiver. Eyeballing it, I'd say it's maybe 1/16 of an inch further right. It's also lower than the receiver rail by the same amount. Is this within acceptable tolerances (if such a thing exists), or is it more likely that I installed the rail incorrectly? I don't want to loctite the allens without knowing if this is a problem. I'll post pics if anyone thinks it would help.
Hey all. I just installed a 13 inch Vtac on my rifle today, and I think I'm having an alignment issue. The top rail on the handguard doesn't line up with the top rail on the receiver. Eyeballing it, I'd say it's maybe 1/16 of an inch further right. It's also lower than the receiver rail by the same amount. Is this within acceptable tolerances (if such a thing exists), or is it more likely that I installed the rail incorrectly? I don't want to loctite the allens without knowing if this is a problem. I'll post pics if anyone thinks it would help.
Post a pic if you can. The fact that it is lower than your receiver kinda makes me think that your receiver is out of spec. What receiver did you use? Also, make sure that you lined up your barrel nut properly...
Grim Fandango
12-26-10, 01:01
Post a pic if you can. The fact that it is lower than your receiver kinda makes me think that your receiver is out of spec. What receiver did you use? Also, make sure that you lined up your barrel nut properly...
The upper receiver is a Colt that I got from Brownells (M4 stamped above gas tube hole, C and keyhole on right side).
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff171/SUFUpanda-san/Guns/IMG_1467.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff171/SUFUpanda-san/Guns/IMG_1469.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff171/SUFUpanda-san/Guns/IMG_1470.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff171/SUFUpanda-san/Guns/IMG_1471.jpg
I had to get on my laptop to upload those, so I took the opportunity to do a bit of googling. I came up with this thread:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=619237
The problem sounds similar to mine. I can't rule it out, but I don't think my upper is out of spec. Could it be that I overtightened the hex screws on the bottom? I have the instructions here, and they say "tighten 1/2 turn past hand tight... there should be about a 1/8" gap in the clamp." The "1/2 turn past hand tight" thing is pretty vague, but that's what I tried for. The gap is much narrower than 1/8", though. Also, I installed the barrel nut at 45 foot pounds. I started out trying for 60, but there was no way I was going to get the groove lined up to allow me to insert the gas tube. The instructions call for 30-60 foot pounds, so I thought 45 would be a safe bet, and that seemed to get the nut tightened up and aligned with the gas tube hole. It may be worth noting that my rail came with the Troy barrel nut wrench, so I didn't have to jury rig one.
I have a similar issue on a standard Troy 13.0 after initial installation but for my purposes it really doesn't matter and I haven't taken the time to try to sort it out. I have three other Troy/VTAC tubes and none of them have this issue.
I've got 3 of the Troy rails and 1 VTAC. Usually I install and crank it all the way over to the rotation limiter and use my standard issued MK. I eyeball and if needed rotate the tube back till it looks centered. We're talking very small amounts, then tighten it down and call it good. By doing this it seems to allow me to zero without using as much windage on the rear sight. Since the rotation limiter only works one way it's not much of an issue. The teeth on the barrel nut prohibit rotation and I think of the anti rotation tooth as more of an index point. Until you finish it up and shoot it you won't know. With what you're seeing it's a good chance that you won't have any issue with zeroing.
spamsammich
12-26-10, 09:27
I just use a carry handle or an ADM T1 mount to bridge the gap when I install them and they usually get close enough for jazz. Sight it in and if it takes too much windage to get it zeroed, give it a little twist until it lines up ok. Not a big deal.
I've just had 11" rail installed on a BCM upper - with same degree of misalignment. Unless it presents problems with zeroing irons, I am not going to worry.
The upper receiver is a Colt that I got from Brownells (M4 stamped above gas tube hole, C and keyhole on right side).
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff171/SUFUpanda-san/Guns/IMG_1467.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff171/SUFUpanda-san/Guns/IMG_1469.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff171/SUFUpanda-san/Guns/IMG_1470.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff171/SUFUpanda-san/Guns/IMG_1471.jpg
I had to get on my laptop to upload those, so I took the opportunity to do a bit of googling. I came up with this thread:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=619237
The problem sounds similar to mine. I can't rule it out, but I don't think my upper is out of spec. Could it be that I overtightened the hex screws on the bottom? I have the instructions here, and they say "tighten 1/2 turn past hand tight... there should be about a 1/8" gap in the clamp." The "1/2 turn past hand tight" thing is pretty vague, but that's what I tried for. The gap is much narrower than 1/8", though. Also, I installed the barrel nut at 45 foot pounds. I started out trying for 60, but there was no way I was going to get the groove lined up to allow me to insert the gas tube. The instructions call for 30-60 foot pounds, so I thought 45 would be a safe bet, and that seemed to get the nut tightened up and aligned with the gas tube hole. It may be worth noting that my rail came with the Troy barrel nut wrench, so I didn't have to jury rig one.
I would not consider the above acceptable.
Grim Fandango
12-27-10, 00:22
I've got 3 of the Troy rails and 1 VTAC. Usually I install and crank it all the way over to the rotation limiter and use my standard issued MK. I eyeball and if needed rotate the tube back till it looks centered. We're talking very small amounts, then tighten it down and call it good. By doing this it seems to allow me to zero without using as much windage on the rear sight. Since the rotation limiter only works one way it's not much of an issue. The teeth on the barrel nut prohibit rotation and I think of the anti rotation tooth as more of an index point. Until you finish it up and shoot it you won't know. With what you're seeing it's a good chance that you won't have any issue with zeroing.
That was my main concern. I wasn't planning on bridging the upper and rail with an optic, but I was concerned that I might run into issues zeroing the irons. I'm running KAC micros, and they look to have a good amount of adjustment in them, but my local range has nasty wind, especially this time of the year. I didn't want to end up with the rear cranked all the way to one side and still be hitting off the paper at 100 yards.
I just use a carry handle or an ADM T1 mount to bridge the gap when I install them and they usually get close enough for jazz. Sight it in and if it takes too much windage to get it zeroed, give it a little twist until it lines up ok. Not a big deal.
Good idea. I tried holding them lined up by hand, and after several attempts I was still ending up with a slight cant to one side or the other. I ended up borrowing a fake acog and bridging the gap with it. It held the rail and upper in alignment while I tightened the screws on the bottom.
I've just had 11" rail installed on a BCM upper - with same degree of misalignment. Unless it presents problems with zeroing irons, I am not going to worry.
It's both comforting and disturbing that I'm not the only one with this issue, but I trust that Vtac wouldn't sell a sub-standard product, and so far I haven't read any accounts of this affecting performance.
I would not consider the above acceptable.
Neither would I. I was able to get the rails lined up on top, but when viewed from the side, the forearm is still slightly lower than the receiver. I was able to line them up by hand, but I wasn't able to do so while tightening things down. I'm running the Centurion MK12 barrel, which is pretty heavy, so I wanted to save weight on the rail if possible. However, I'm prepared to look at alternatives if this proves problematic (the DD RIS II is staring back at me from the cover of the little BCM catalog).
Problem solved?
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff171/SUFUpanda-san/Guns/IMG_1481.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff171/SUFUpanda-san/Guns/IMG_1483.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff171/SUFUpanda-san/Guns/IMG_1480.jpg
I'm saving up for a Larue SPR or SPR-E, but it's going to be a while until I can afford one. I'm going to try to pick up some 75 gr. TAP T2 or SSA MK262 clone at the gun show on the 1st, then I'll try to zero the irons.
Thanks guys. Any further concerns? Otherwise I'll report back once I've taken it to the range.
Robb Jensen
12-27-10, 00:31
This is one of the main reasons I use the Brownells rail (adjustable) alignment tool that many say is useless since you can sometimes use a non-adjustable removable carry handle but what the hell do I know?
Grim Fandango
12-27-10, 01:04
This is one of the main reasons I use the Brownells rail (adjustable) alignment tool that many say is useless since you can sometimes use a non-adjustable removable carry handle but what the hell do I know?
I've never heard of that, but I'm all about having the right tool for the right job. In fact, I have a little Brownells catalog next to me right now. I was looking at the little Multitasker Tool II, wondering if it would be a better option for me than the Leatherman MUT. This was my first build, so I'm working on assembling all the tools I'll need for future builds and maintenance.
Problem solved?
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff171/SUFUpanda-san/Guns/IMG_1481.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff171/SUFUpanda-san/Guns/IMG_1483.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff171/SUFUpanda-san/Guns/IMG_1480.jpg
Two of the three pictures look good. The picture of the bottom of the handguard is very disturbing though. It appears the fit between the tube and the barrel nut is very sloppy, so much so that you have to really tweak on the two screws and literally bend the heck out of the metal in order for it to stay tight against the barrel nut.
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
Concerning the gap seen in the following picture: Did the rail tighten up enough before the gap became distorted? If so, you could put a shim in the gap to allow the screws to be torqued correctly without the distortion. If not, then shims could be use between the rail and the receiver. It may be that shims at both locations will be needed
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff171/SUFUpanda-san/Guns/IMG_1471.jpg
Grim Fandango
12-27-10, 15:46
Two of the three pictures look good. The picture of the bottom of the handguard is very disturbing though. It appears the fit between the tube and the barrel nut is very sloppy, so much so that you have to really tweak on the two screws and literally bend the heck out of the metal in order for it to stay tight against the barrel nut.
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
I'd say that accurately describes my case, though I probably wouldn't have used "sloppy." I just loosened the screws again and experimented with various degrees of tightness, and measuring the gap between the tabs. Even taking the screws completely out, I didn't have the 1/8" gap between the tabs the instructions call for. Tightening down to a 1/16" gap, the rail moved freely left and right on the barrel nut. With the gap at a hair or two under 1/16"--but not yet at 1/32"--the rail tightens up and stays in place, as in my most recent set of pictures.
Concerning the gap seen in the following picture: Did the rail tighten up enough before the gap became distorted? If so, you could put a shim in the gap to allow the screws to be torqued correctly without the distortion. If not, then shims could be use between the rail and the receiver. It may be that shims at both locations will be needed
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff171/SUFUpanda-san/Guns/IMG_1471.jpg
No, there was essentially no tightness without reaching a similar level of distortion.
If anyone else running this rail could post pictures of the gap between their bottom tabs and/or some quick measurements, I'd appreciate it. Again, I don't want to loctite the screws without having determined how much of a issue this is. Thanks for the continuing help, guys.
Grim Fandango
12-27-10, 15:56
EDIT: Double post.
spamsammich
12-27-10, 18:44
Use blue loctite and dont worry about it any further.
If you're not happy you should reach out to Troy to see what they can do for you.
Grim Fandango
12-27-10, 20:23
Use blue loctite and dont worry about it any further.
Good thinking, I hadn't considered using blue instead of red. I'll go get some tomorrow.
If you're not happy you should reach out to Troy to see what they can do for you.
It's not that I'm not happy. Since I don't have any prior experience with this rail system, I simply wanted to make sure that there wasn't a problem. If the guys who've been using these say that everything looks normal, great, I'll move on to the next thing, which will be finding a Vtac 2-point sling and a way to mount it to the rail.
Just to be on the safe side why not e-mail those pics to Troy and see what they say?
glockshooter
12-27-10, 20:47
I got one of the Vtac rails when they first came out. I looked at my Robb Jensen installed vtac rail. It is lined up perfectly. I dont know if it was Robb's adjustable rail mounting thing or not but as per usual Robb's work was great.
Grim,
This rail system same become my absolute favorite. I hope you can get it all figured out.
Robb Jensen
12-27-10, 21:06
I've never heard of that, but I'm all about having the right tool for the right job. In fact, I have a little Brownells catalog next to me right now. I was looking at the little Multitasker Tool II, wondering if it would be a better option for me than the Leatherman MUT. This was my first build, so I'm working on assembling all the tools I'll need for future builds and maintenance.
I have not used the Leatherman MUT but have used Leatherman tools for many years. I have the Multitaskers and am VERY impressed with the quality and design. You'll be hard pressed to meet or even exceed the quality of the Multitaskers even at 4 times the price.
Yes I do like to have the right tool for the job.
Once in a great while I encounter a Troy or VTAC that is very difficult to get to align vertically. I believe this is a tolerance issue and both the receiver and rail and at opposite sides of the tolerances. The alignment tool does a great job of keeping the rail in alignment as you tighten down the two bottom screws.
dennisuello
12-27-10, 22:16
here are some detail shots of my rail. it does appear to be a hair lower than the rail on the upper (M&P15), but looks less that yours. it's as if your barrel nut is smaller OD than needs to be, that would explain both of your problems.
Photography is like shooting for me - no matter how much money I spend on gear, I still suck.
Took whole of 5 minutes to get rail straight, don't know if it can be seen or not.
Also depicted is my method of sling attachment - UWL from Blue Force Gear. Between it and ASAP plate, sling is ambidextrous without multiple attachment point. Plus it weighs nothing.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/Heartachedoc/stuff006.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/Heartachedoc/stuff007.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/Heartachedoc/stuff009.jpg
Wait, I'm confused. I was just about to pull the trigger on this thing and now saw a difference between the VTAC and the Troy version.
Troy
- Barrel Nut
- Wrench
VTAC
- No Barrel Nut
- No Wrench
Question
1) Is the wrench needed to install the VTAC rail?
2) Do I use the stock barrel nut with the VTAC rail?
Thanks
Robb Jensen
12-28-10, 20:35
Wait, I'm confused. I was just about to pull the trigger on this thing and now saw a difference between the VTAC and the Troy version.
Troy
- Barrel Nut
- Wrench
VTAC
- No Barrel Nut
- No Wrench
Question
1) Is the wrench needed to install the VTAC rail?
2) Do I use the stock barrel nut with the VTAC rail?
Thanks
1. VTAC rails have been coming with the wrench for at least the last 1.5 months if not longer.
2. VTAC rails have always as far as I know come with the proprietary Troy bbl nut so I don't know where that disinformation comes from. We've been a VTAC dealer since about 2 months after their TRX VTAC rails hit the market.
1. VTAC rails have been coming with the wrench for at least the last 1.5 months if not longer.
2. VTAC rails have always as far as I know come with the proprietary Troy bbl nut so I don't know where that disinformation comes from. We've been a VTAC dealer since about 2 months after their TRX VTAC rails hit the market.
That's good to know. My information came straight from the manufacturer website.
http://troyind.com/%20/battlerails/troy-battlerail-trx-extreme-11
vs
http://store.vikingtactics.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=VT01&Product_Code=VTAC-TRX-11&Category_Code=
VTAC website makes no mention of a wrench and barrel nut. If it was normal working hours, I would have called them to confirm. Didn't mean to come off as giving misinformation.
A gentleman has offered me a VTAC 11in Handguard + wrench for $110 shipped. I was just wondering if the barrel nut is needed from Troy/VTAC or if I can use my factory one.
That's good to know. My information came straight from the manufacturer website.
http://troyind.com/%20/battlerails/troy-battlerail-trx-extreme-11
vs
http://store.vikingtactics.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=VT01&Product_Code=VTAC-TRX-11&Category_Code=
VTAC website makes no mention of a wrench and barrel nut. If it was normal working hours, I would have called them to confirm. Didn't mean to come off as giving misinformation.
A gentleman has offered me a VTAC 11in Handguard + wrench for $110 shipped. I was just wondering if the barrel nut is needed from Troy/VTAC or if I can use my factory one.
There is nothing there on the VTAC website that shows a lack of barrel nut or anything. Lack of mention does not mean it does not have it.
There is nothing there on the VTAC website that shows a lack of barrel nut or anything. Lack of mention does not mean it does not have it.
True, but the Troy website mentions it for their rail and the VTAC website didn't for theirs. I was just trying to confirm thanks to Mr. Jensen.
There's no point in me picking up that cheap VTAC rail because it won't work with a factory barrel nut. I guess it was cheap for a reason.
Robb Jensen
12-28-10, 21:33
I've not tried it yet but I'm 99.9% certain that the Troy TRX or VTAC TRX will not fit on a stock barrel nut. I have installed a few hundred of these rails. Stock barrel nuts do not have the clearance cuts between the barrel teeth that's need for the rail to fit the barrel nut.
I've not tried it yet but I'm 99.9% certain that the Troy TRX or VTAC TRX will not fit on a stock barrel nut. I have installed a few hundred of these rails. Stock barrel nuts do not have the clearance cuts between the barrel teeth that's need for the rail to fit the barrel nut.
Ahh, makes sense. I'll give Troy a ring to see if I could just purchase the barrel nut. I'm surprise the guy selling me the used rail doesn't have the troy barrel nut. I shot him an email to let him know that it was proprietary. Thanks again!
Robb Jensen
12-29-10, 14:15
Here's the wrench I use for Troy/VTAC rails (in my draw o'wrenches). It's the long silver one in the middle.
I still need to get a KAC URX bbl nut wrench.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/Troywrench2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/Troywrench.jpg
The wrench Troy currently ships with their TRX rails is also the full circle design, but does not have a handle (just the hole for the 1/2" drive).
Robb Jensen
12-29-10, 15:40
The wrench Troy currently ships with their TRX rails is also the full circle design, but does not have a handle (just the hole for the 1/2" drive).
Yep I have one of those too. It doesn't fit the bbl nut as tight as this big wrench does.
FYI, TROY is having a 20% off over $200, free shipping right now thru the 31st.
Got an 11" TRX rail and pre-ordered their anti-rotation QD mount for $170 shipped - great deals!
[QUOTE=Robb Jensen;860239]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/Troywrench2.jpg
QUOTE]
That would make a cool screen saver
The wrench I got with my TRX rails was open on one side and you were supposed to only turn it one direction. I messed up once and "expanded" the wrench a little. So now I just use my genuine surplus GI wrench with the 3 pins. Works great.
I had some commercial clones of the GI wrench that had softer metal and got out of shape (in the flash hider part no less) but my genuine GI (silver paper wrapped bought at gun shows in the 90s) just work.
Quiet-Matt
12-30-10, 15:43
Here's my adaptation of the TRX QD socket.....
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_5kA3JwNkBxc/TR1DEjYt4eI/AAAAAAAAHGo/TJ0UfjlV0LI/s720/DSC01654.JPG
Yep I have one of those too. It doesn't fit the bbl nut as tight as this big wrench does.
Robb,
Where did you get that Troy TRX wrench from? The ones that comes with the handguard kinda suck.
Atticus_1354
12-30-10, 17:32
I may have lucked out, but the closed end wrench that came with my VTAC rail fits my barrel nut very nicely. It also helps that it is probably a one time use item for me.
Robb Jensen
12-30-10, 17:36
Robb,
Where did you get that Troy TRX wrench from? The ones that comes with the handguard kinda suck.
Directly from Troy. I don't think they offer it for sale.
Quiet-Matt
12-30-10, 19:44
Robb,
Where did you get that Troy TRX wrench from? The ones that comes with the handguard kinda suck.
Just put the grinder to it Nick, I got the closed end version as well.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_5kA3JwNkBxc/TR005yyAc9I/AAAAAAAAHGM/jH0tWoV-MBs/s720/mms_picture.jpg
Both of those wrenches look much better than the ones that came with my VTAC TRX rails:
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/7238/sdc10785o.jpg
The one I have pictured above tends to flex & starts to spread open a bit at just about the amount of torque required to line it up with the gastube hole in the receiver when backing it off and then torquing it back down during installation.
I need to call Troy and see if I can get one of those closed-end wrenches like Robb has.
parishioner
12-30-10, 20:38
Here's my adaptation of the TRX QD socket.....
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_5kA3JwNkBxc/TRz77Jx8nPI/AAAAAAAAHF4/xw4raV_TXkA/s720/DSC01650.JPG
Neat. Did you just grind the rails down with a bench grinder?
Quiet-Matt
12-30-10, 20:51
I wasn't happy with the first try, so I took it off and sanded some more (see above post for updated picture).
I used an angle grinder to take off the rail sections, then I used a belt sander to shape it and followed up with sandpaper. A shot of teflon/moly and a trip to the oven and all done. With the smooth radius you hardly notice it when you move your hand across it.
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