View Full Version : 9mm AR
Hello,
What have been peoples experiences with the different 9mm AR's? I have been looking at buying a RRA upper but I thought I would ask what else people have had success with and what you have found to be unreliable.
Thanks,
David
Master Blaster
06-07-06, 17:24
You won't go wrong with a Rockriver 9mm upper.
what lower are you going to use ?(you need a round face hammer for it to work with 9mm.)
Brian
I have a Bushmaster and have been very pleased with it.
BravoCompanyUSA
06-07-06, 18:59
I don't have a lot of 9mm AR experience, but generally speaking I would recomend going with a 9mm system that has a interchangable mag system with Colt. It is my understanding that there are a small variety of mags, mag well blocks, etc for the 9mm platform. Going with the Colt type system should give you the largest choice when it comes to aftermarket parts or accessories that are offered now or might be offered in the future.
I think the RRA uses the same Colt mag system.
My RRA 9MM SBR has been flawless for me. I had the bolt shaved and am using an M16 hammer instead of the standard 9MM hammer.
Oh Yea...and lots of eye candy :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/mooneys/GunPics/DSCN30892.jpg
I have one of the first RRA 9mm's made. It has run perfectly and I love to shoot it. I would recommend going with a Colt based mag system as you can use the 9mm Beta's! :D
C4
www.GRTactical.com
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Grant's%20weapons/RRA%209mm.JPG
JTAC_Supply
06-08-06, 08:27
My 9mm RRA has also run like a top. Right now I'm using the VM-Hytech mag block and un modified UZI magazines, and have had nothing but reliable feeding and fun :p The Colt style mag system is a good idea if you want to run beta mags as above. Right now I don't have an M16 so the VM system seemed a better idea for me personally.
OH, and I have midlength RRA uppers in stock now :D
Jason
watersniper
06-13-06, 12:49
I am running a 7" cut down RRA 9mm barrel from ADCO. I then added a Gemtech Trinity. Mag block is RRA, it works well. Magazines are modified UZI and Pro Mags. The Pro Mags so far have all held the bolt back after the last shot, but they don't drop free. The handguard is a DD 7.0, with a PRI front flip up and a YHM flip up rear. It's all topped off with an EOTech 512. Oh yea I'm running a Geissele match trigger, it works unmodified with this 9mm setup! No bolt ramping needed. :D
Once upon a time I had an Oly system 9mm. It worked, but I didn't like the magazines with the attached mag block as much as the Colt/RRA system.
http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/5703/9mm125jk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
I just finished my 9mmAR build using RRA upper and lower, 5" TROS 3-lug barrel, and VM-Hytech mag block w/ un modified UZI magazines. First time out it ran like a champ. The only problem I experienced was with a damaged mag that wouldn't feed properly. My Trident 9 is inbound and will finish off my project.
Can someone take a picture or two of this mag block and explain to me the difference between running modified vs unmodified Uzi mags?
With the price of 5.56 going through the roof the sound of a 9mm AR is sounding better and better. :)
I personally love the 9mm AR platform. It's probably that fastest (mag changes) SMG ever made. The only way it could be made better is if it had a locking breech design. Without it locking feature, suppressing sound is hard to do when gases escape through the ejection port.
Even thought the UZI magazine conversions are nice, I have never got use to it. Every time I change the magazines, I accidentally keep hitting the original release, ejecting the Uzi magwell adapter.
Eric
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/9108/vis6smallfx2.jpg
VM HY-TECH Uzi Mag Adapter
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid73/pc3f559fe67d9e6ffa756a42fd5888d30/fb6773cd.jpg
Hahn Precision, sleeve adapter
http://www.brownells.com/Images/Products/100000443.jpg
I have probably the most simple set up:
Bushmaster Carbon 9mm with EOTech 512. It runs the polymer mags and Colt mags.
No problems whatsoever and the abiltiy to use Colt mags is a plus.
I've shot over 1000 rounds out of it so far and it runs great.
The light weight of the carbon fiber is nice and have seen no problems with durability.
CapnCrunch
07-24-06, 05:16
I personally love the 9mm AR platform. It's probably that fastest (mag changes) SMG ever made. The only way it could be made better is if it had a locking breech design. Without it locking feature, suppressing sound is hard to do when gases escape through the ejection port.
Even thought the UZI magazine conversions are nice, I have never got use to it. Every time I change the magazines, I accidentally keep hitting the original release, ejecting the Uzi magwell adapter.
Eric
Breech blast when running suppressed is the only thing that holds it back. It's not as noticable with really short barrels, but I'd still prefer a locking breech. It'd be nice when used in conjunction with CQBR length barrels, as opposed to the Glock 34 length ones that you need to get it pretty damn quiet.
I had good luck with a Colt RO934 SMG -- I like the fact that unlike the MP-5 the drills where (more or less) the same as my carbine.
Question: Has anyone tried or does anyone currently make a mag block or conversion for taking the 33 rnd Glock Hi caps?
I personally love the 9mm AR platform. It's probably that fastest (mag changes) SMG ever made. The only way it could be made better is if it had a locking breech design. Without it locking feature, suppressing sound is hard to do when gases escape through the ejection port.
Even thought the UZI magazine conversions are nice, I have never got use to it. Every time I change the magazines, I accidentally keep hitting the original release, ejecting the Uzi magwell adapter.
Eric
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/9108/vis6smallfx2.jpg
VM HY-TECH Uzi Mag Adapter
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid73/pc3f559fe67d9e6ffa756a42fd5888d30/fb6773cd.jpg
Hahn Precision, sleeve adapter
http://www.brownells.com/Images/Products/100000443.jpg
Eric,
I have the same uzi mag block. I just got it and installed it in a PWA lower where it fit fine. But when I mate it to a RRA 9mm upper something in the block doesn't allow a flush fit. Do these blocks require minor smithing?
eklikewhoa
08-10-06, 07:55
Question: Has anyone tried or does anyone currently make a mag block or conversion for taking the 33 rnd Glock Hi caps?
olympic offers rifles that accept glock mags in either 40 or 9mm
I've built a couple of 9s. I actually prefer the colt 2 piece block to my top load single piece. I was told when I bought it.. that it was a RRA block, but I think it is an ASA... I had to do a lot of work to the feedramp to get it to feed hollow points. The colt was a simple trial and error phase, got the spot.. drill and pin.
I too have found the ProMag waffle mags to be extremely reliable with no hiccups or feeding issues. At $12 from Natchez, they are a smoking deal. I have had no issue with Colt mags either, but I only have the plastic follower type. Both have always activated the BHO feature.
VLTOR: what is that supressor? it looks like it has a HOLO-type quick release mount. Thanks.....
Does anyone have experiance with the "National Magazine" AR-15 9mm mags at Midway? Does it activate the BHO? Feed reliably?
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=933969
I have a factory built complete RRA 16" A4 CAR upper and I built a RRA stripped lower with RRA LPK, Hahn top loading mag block, Colt and Beta C mag and ACE M4 SOCOM buttstock.
My build was smooth, no problems and it runs fine.
Pic link of my carbine (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y232/Alpha-Romeo3/Hunting/RRA9mmCarbine.jpg)
DOUBLETAP76
09-10-06, 03:40
Here is my Colt I love it!
DT!
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/6718/img2931jp2.jpg
I've got a Colt SMG upper on a RAA 9mm pistol lower. It takes Uzi mags. The only drawback that it has is no last round hold open. The pistol runs great, and there isn't hardly any recoil.
"Eric,
I have the same uzi mag block. I just got it and installed it in a PWA lower where it fit fine. But when I mate it to a RRA 9mm upper something in the block doesn't allow a flush fit. Do these blocks require minor smithing?"
I am building a 9mm RRA as well. I got the 9mm RRA midlength and an RRA 5.56 lower. I then installed the ASA magblock. My 9mm buffer and hammer haven't arrived yet :mad: but I decided to put togeather what I could just to see what my baby would look like completed. Problem is that the upper and lower wouldn't fit! I thought it may be the magblock and removed it then tried to close the upper and lower. No go. I can match the front pin and receiver ends but there's a tiny bit at the rear end that wont go in (I have to push it a little and even then the rear pin won't go in! I ended up leaving it with a gunsmith to check the fir of both receivers. I read somewhere that some RRA 9mm upper receivers require a tiny bit of "Tweaking" (from the other AR forum:
"Also, about 25-30% of the time the Rock River Arms setup requires a little "Tweaking" to get it running properly. the most common problem is that it will not strip the last 1-4 rounds out of the Uzi mag, the reason being that the Uzi follower has too steep and angle for the bolt to strip the rounds. This is easy to fix with about two minutes a mag and a pair of pliers (just did it myself) and the mags will still work in an Uzi, but some people don't like having to "tweak" their weapon to get it to run. Also, you might have to get another hammer- the DMPS style AR15 hammer (looks basically like an M16 hammer with the back "rat tail" choped off) works for both .223 and 9mm. Many AR-15's are equipped with a hammer that has a small face out of the top front, and that can hang up on the bolt carrier and cause a bad jam. Figure $15 for a new hammer from Brownells. One final thing that many people do is have the bolt "ramped" as the 9mm bolt can beat kinda hard on the hammer and pins. It is not necessary on a semi lower, the full autos are the ones that seem to get beat pretty hard as they fire so many rounds, but I perosnally figure "it can't hurt." LRM firearms does this service for $35" )
So it is possible that a bit of Gunsmithing may be required to get your AR (and mabe mine) to run properly. Mind you this seems to be the exception rather than the norm. Has anybody else had problems with their 9mm AR builds?
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g99/vinesr6/Picture754.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g99/vinesr6/Picture753.jpg
Max Collins
04-27-07, 10:55
I have an Olympic that takes the Glock mags. I love it. It has been really good to me...100% reliability, good trigger, and shoots pretty accurately. Of course, the brand name is cursed....
I started out with a Colt LEO 9mm AR back in 2001. It was the most unreliable POS I've ever owned. I tried converted Uzi mags and factory LEO 32-round Colt mags, too. It wouldn't feed any shape cast bullet reload, no JHP's, and not even FMJ unless the bolt was absolutely dripping wet with oil.
I swore off pistol caliber AR's after that deal until I shot my friend's Olympic .45acp AR. It fed any shape cast bullet we tried, even down to 165gr SWC's and light loads. After that, I looked for one immediately, bought it, and it's been completely trouble free after thousands of rounds. I'm going to complete one of Justin's AR45 lowers for it so I can use M3 Grease Gun mags to get away from the expensive .45acp Uzi mags.
When I decided I wanted another 9mm AR, I wouldn't buy anything but Olympic after the experiences I've had. I found one that supposidly only had 400 rounds through it with two Oly converted STEN mags for $400 shipped. It did come in looking like new and has proven to be 100% reliable. I've shot a full .50 cal ammo can full of my 147gr cast bullets from wheelweight alloy and homemade lube. In all of those rounds, it's only seen one cleaning. I just spray the bolt with Remoil before I shoot and it just keeps on going. With my alloy/lube/sizing combo, I get no leading, either. I like it so much that I just bought another 30 WWII British STEN mags from Ohio Ordinance that I'm going to weld the square tubing to and mill the slot on, just like Olympic does.
At the same time as I got my Oly, my neighbor traded into another Colt 9mm AR. The same thing happened with his as my old one. It's extremely ammo picky and will not feed well with both the Colt and converted Uzi mags. He does have one Bushy polymer mag that feeds well with FMJ and my cast bullet reloads, though.
For a trouble-free pistol caliber AR, Olympic is the only wya to go, IMO. I've owned or fired three Colt 9mm AR's, and they have all been very ammo picky. My Oly feeds anything I stuff in the mags.
Here's my setup. It's an Oly 9mm upper, Eagle Arms/Armalite lower, DPMS lower parts kit (you don't need a special hammer for the Oly pistol caliber AR's!), Yankee Hill Machine rail forend, Knights Armament vertical grip, Streamlight Strion rechargable 70 lumen flashlight and a Trijicon Reflex with the dot recticle. Mounted on the YHM forend, it cowitnesses perfectly with the factory sights and with the large rear aperature, it's the same size as the outside of the Reflex, so you don't even notice the rear sight.
I just bought an aluminum collapsable buttstock for it and I'll put on my Blackhawk single point sling mount to use with my ZM Weapons system bungee sling. I'm also threading the barrel to install a 9mm A2 flash hider. I have several Colt pre-ban lowers and I'll use one of them for it (since I live in MA :( ). At the next gunshow, I'm getting a light gray (Colt colored) A1 slab sided upper receiver and drilling it for the Oly ejector and the colors will match with the lower I'm going to use with it. MA laws suck.
Here's the pic of the work in progress.
http://www.cqbarms.com/photos/albums/userpics/normal_Oly_9mm_AR_new_1.jpg
CarlosDJackal
08-04-07, 12:27
My RRA 9MM SBR has been flawless for me. I had the bolt shaved and am using an M16 hammer instead of the standard 9MM hammer...
Does this mean I cannot just drop in the RRA 9mm upper onto my RRA lower?
I just bought a Colt 6450 and a Magpul CTR and MIAD for it. I'm also planning to order a YHM Wraith QD for it as well.
Hope to get to shoot it for the first time tomorrow.
I just bought a Colt 6450 and a Magpul CTR and MIAD for it. I'm also planning to order a YHM Wraith QD for it as well.
Hope to get to shoot it for the first time tomorrow.
Rob, did you SBR it already? If so, did you go with the SD type upper or an A2/A3 shorty upper?
I'm still debating which route to go with my 6450.
I haven't SBRd yet. I'm waiting for Grant to offer his 9mm SBR uppers. I'll probably start the paperwork shortly though. Still trying to decide where I want to engrave it.
Robb Jensen
08-04-07, 21:19
I haven't SBRd yet. I'm waiting for Grant to offer his 9mm SBR uppers. I'll probably start the paperwork shortly though. Still trying to decide where I want to engrave it.
Above the trigger........brother. High CDI factor there. ;)
Shot the 6450 today to zero it at 50 yards. Two clicks to the right and it was zeroed right out of the box. Blew the center diamond out of a shoot-n-see gridded zero target without problem.
The one thing I wasn't expecting is that it kicks more than my 5.56 ARs; by quite a bit. Granted, with the table/rest I had available to use it wasn't exactly in the pocket, but I guarantee you I'll have a bruise tomorrow after just 40 rounds of Blazer aluminum.
Robb Jensen
08-05-07, 20:52
Shot the 6450 today to zero it at 50 yards. Two clicks to the right and it was zeroed right out of the box. Blew the center diamond out of a shoot-n-see gridded zero target without problem.
The one thing I wasn't expecting is that it kicks more than my 5.56 ARs; by quite a bit. Granted, with the table/rest I had available to use it wasn't exactly in the pocket, but I guarantee you I'll have a bruise tomorrow after just 40 rounds of Blazer aluminum.
More felt recoil is from two reasons.
1. You pushing at least a 115gr round (or more) down range (heavier than 55gr .223)........physics.
2. More reciprocating mass......the carrier and buffer are heavier than a M16 carrier.......physics. (this is the reason why I'm shooting a 1/2 circle unshrouded carreir an a CAR 2.9oz buffer in my 3gun rifle. I may soon try a JP low mass carrier soon too).
40 rounds give or take. 20 before the two clicks, 20 after. I think you can see the results of some of my flinches.:D
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/IMG_1618Small.jpg
John Fettes
08-07-07, 13:12
I have a stock Colt's and like it. My sons and I sometimes shoot plates with an ML3 mounted on a PRI gooseneck mount. That makes it hard to miss!
John
I'd like to hear more about these SBR uppers.
The one thing I wasn't expecting is that it kicks more than my 5.56 ARs; by quite a bit. Granted, with the table/rest I had available to use it wasn't exactly in the pocket, but I guarantee you I'll have a bruise tomorrow after just 40 rounds of Blazer aluminum.
You are joking about the recoil and bruise, right? Yes, there is a little more felt recoil, but not THAT much!
You are joking about the recoil and bruise, right? Yes, there is a little more felt recoil, but not THAT much!
No, not kidding. The benches they make you use at that particular range meant that the stock was sitting right on the ball of my shoulder and not the pocket. I didn't wind up with a bruise but it was definitely sore the next day.
Anything more than a .22 will leave you sore if you don't hold the gun correctly.
Sore from a 9mm AR? :eek:
:D
Sore from a 9mm AR? :eek:
:D
I don't quite get it, either. I guess I just started shooting at a young age, but I just don't see the recoil of a 9mm AR any more abusive than a .22! Sure, it may move more, but I don't even call its recoil a "kick".
I started shooting skeet with my father when I was 10, using a 20ga SxS. Then, when I was 12, he got me a Remington 1100 Skeet. Back then, I was shooting 200 rounds per week, 100 Sunday morning and 100 Tuesday night. Yes, I had a bruise back then, especially since I was young, no recoil pad, and you can't download the charges that much if you want the action to still work.
By the time I was 14 or so, I stopped getting bruised or sore anymore. Hell, just last week I was with my 9 year old daughter at the range. She was shooting mostly her Remington Targetmaster .22, but took 20 or so shots from my .357mag Winchester Trapper Carbine, using close to max charges of .38 Special. No recoil pad, shooting from a bench (and hitting every bowling pin, too, at 25 yards!), with no complaining about recoil and definately no bruise.
I shot my Mosin 91/30 with some Heavy Ball MG ammo while I was there, too. Sure, it kicks, especially from the bench with its metal buttplate and I was wearing just a tank top. But after 40 rounds, still no bruise.
I have just never heard of anyone saying that anything above a .22 will make you sore if you don't shoulder it properly. I'm not insulting or anything, but I've just never heard of that.
The Archangel
09-05-07, 13:45
I'v eread through most of what has been said about the RRA, but just to reconfirm, will the BETAmags work with the RRA mag adapters?
How are the 9mm BETA-Mags compared to the 5.56mm BETA C-Mags as far as reliability? I heard to stay away from the 5.56mm BETA C-Mags.
I'm a newbie in the 9mm AR world so please educate me. :D
I'v eread through most of what has been said about the RRA, but just to reconfirm, will the BETAmags work with the RRA mag adapters?
How are the 9mm BETA-Mags compared to the 5.56mm BETA C-Mags as far as reliability? I heard to stay away from the 5.56mm BETA C-Mags.
I'm a newbie in the 9mm AR world so please educate me. :D
The Beta's will work with the RRA system (run them with mine).
All Beta mags require cleaning and lube. To no tod this makes the mags unreliable.
We have 9mm Beta mags with the clear backs in stock if interested.
C4
The Archangel
09-05-07, 15:26
The Beta's will work with the RRA system (run them with mine).
All Beta mags require cleaning and lube. To no tod this makes the mags unreliable.
We have 9mm Beta mags with the clear backs in stock if interested.
C4
Grant, I will keep you in mind when I get the BETA. Right now I'm in the process of getting the TROS 9mm AR & SWR Trident first. :D
.223 Beta mags unreliable? Not from my experiences. At the MG shoots, the M16's eat up ammo out of them with no issues at all. Maintain them properly, just like any other piece of equipment, and you won't have a problem.
I have an A3 Oly 9mm upper and love it. You can run it on an unmodified 5.56 lower. It uses cheap and reliable Sten mags with a mag block.
Two friend's of mine have RRAs - each of which required some initial tweaking. Tehy seem to run well now though.
My Oly has been accurate and reliable. I love to hammer steel in the IPSC pits with my 9mm AR - good clean fun! Oly does 9mm AR's very well IMO.
With the price of 5.56 ammo (which I don't reload), I do most of my <50 yard practice with my 9mm AR. I reload 9mm and have tons of 9mm brass (you can always find tons of 9mm brass in the pits).
I just bought a 9mm RRA and it runs fine with the RRA mag but runs like crap with the $60 apiece Colt mags I bought? Anyone got any idea why?
Is there a break in period on new Colt mags?
The Colt mags are 35 rounders. Should I try only loading 30?
This situation has throughly pi$$ed me off since the Clot mags are $60 each and are not working like the $30 RRA mag.
The reason I bought the Colt mags is that the RRA mags do not lock the bolt open after the last round and RRA is out about 10 to 12 weeks on their mags.
Right now the only way you get a mag from RRA is buy a rifle and they send you ONE with your order. I ordered 5 total when my local gun shop placed my order with RRA in March. I did not get my rifle until July and they said it would be 10-12 more weeks before thay finnished filling my order for mags. So I canceled my mag order and bought Colts. I am starting to think it was a mistake.
I had three Colt mags with my Colt 9mm AR that I used to own. None of them ever fed reliably. My neighbor currently has a Colt 9mm AR, too. Jams constantly with Colt or converted Uzi mags, but it runs well with the cheap Promags. Go figure.
chrismartin
09-09-07, 20:43
I just bought a 9mm RRA and it runs fine with the RRA mag but runs like crap with the $60 apiece Colt mags I bought? Anyone got any idea why?
Depending on the position of the mag block, the magazine can sit a little high or low causing feeding issues. CProducts 9mm (I have 4 CProducts 9mm mags and they have worked well in my AR.) mag discussions on arfcom go into this a little bit. Some one else will have to pipe in on the RRA block, but I think you can loosen the set screw a little, move it a little and tighten it back down.
That's just what I've read though, I have a hahn block.
I just bought a 9mm RRA and it runs fine with the RRA mag but runs like crap with the $60 apiece Colt mags I bought? Anyone got any idea why?
Is there a break in period on new Colt mags?
The Colt mags are 35 rounders. Should I try only loading 30?
This situation has throughly pi$$ed me off since the Clot mags are $60 each and are not working like the $30 RRA mag.
The reason I bought the Colt mags is that the RRA mags do not lock the bolt open after the last round and RRA is out about 10 to 12 weeks on their mags.
Right now the only way you get a mag from RRA is buy a rifle and they send you ONE with your order. I ordered 5 total when my local gun shop placed my order with RRA in March. I did not get my rifle until July and they said it would be 10-12 more weeks before thay finnished filling my order for mags. So I canceled my mag order and bought Colts. I am starting to think it was a mistake.
First, Colt doesn't make 35rd Mags (32 and 20 only). Since the Colt mags don't work in your gun, try adjusting the mag block so that it sits lower in the mag well.
For 9mm Mags, The Cproducts have been great for me and fit/finish is second to none. They are also much cheaper than Colt mags.
C4
Out of curiosity, I fired 200 rds through a Hi-Point 9mm carbine. Felt recoil, which is subjective, was surprisingly harsh. I reasoned that in this rifle the blowback mechanism was not balanced properly; however, there was no premature gas escape when the bolt retracted. Actually, this thing kicked hard.
Years ago I fired a variety of sub-guns in .380, 9mm, and .45. In the latter two,
recoil was mild due to weight and I'm sure other factors as well. In .45, the weapons were a WW2 Ingram(haven't seen one since), a1927 Navy Thompson, and a Reising. The Reising fired from a locked breech and recoil was noticeably mild, despite its light weight.
In one sense the AR 9's are spring guns and function hinges on buffer spring weight. I lack recent experience and have had none with the AR platform in pistol calibers. It seem to me that this idea was an afterthought.
Williejc
Out of curiosity, I fired 200 rds through a Hi-Point 9mm carbine. Felt recoil, which is subjective, was surprisingly harsh. I reasoned that in this rifle the blowback mechanism was not balanced properly; however, there was no premature gas escape when the bolt retracted. Actually, this thing kicked hard.
Years ago I fired a variety of sub-guns in .380, 9mm, and .45. In the latter two,
recoil was mild due to weight and I'm sure other factors as well. In .45, the weapons were a WW2 Ingram(haven't seen one since), a1927 Navy Thompson, and a Reising. The Reising fired from a locked breech and recoil was noticeably mild, despite its light weight.
In one sense the AR 9's are spring guns and function hinges on buffer spring weight. I lack recent experience and have had none with the AR platform in pistol calibers. It seem to me that this idea was an afterthought.
Williejc
The hi point kicks like it is using a much larger caliber. It is alos a POS (sorry). :D
C4
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