View Full Version : Best to worse CANS?
What is the pecking order from best to worst with cans. KAC, Gemtech......
I know very little and I have heard 2 different opinions. One, buy the best, two: the cheaper are just as good. Now this is rarely true as we know. I looked at the stickies and saw no such info. Is there a Sticky like the AR15 sticky from Rob, which is flat awesome. I am looking for AR15 5.56 (Colt 6940 & LMT Defender both 16inch) and .45ACP for my HK45.
A quick: here are the top 5 to consider and "why" would be a great help. I am not LEO, they would be for classes, possible Hm defense, and general shooting. :confused::confused:
While I can't personally help you, here's a place with great info that ive just started going through. www.silencertalk.com
Rob has a chart of suppressors on his site. http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/69016/92021.html
www.silencerresearch.com pay the premium membership price it's well worth it...
LonghunterCO
09-19-09, 18:44
I recommend the subscription too. For the .45 realize that the .45ACP round is difficult to silence. Many silencer have to be run wet to get the reduction that many want...the AAC Ti-Rant in .45 is now out and it is bosting some very impressive numbers-dry!. Look for it after you get your subcription.
Yup I placed an order for my TI-RANT 45 with Mike a few days ago...I shall receive it at the dealer in 8-12 weeks...:D
www.silencerresearch.com pay the premium membership price it's well worth it...
Just be careful, I told my wife I was signing up for a membership online to research the best cans and all I got was a slap and a chance to cook my own supper for a night.
:p
Silencertalk is a good place to start for free :)
armoredsaint
09-20-09, 20:20
i have my M4-2000 on transfer from major malfunctions :D
Some general comments...
First, the M4C mantra of "what do you want to do with it, and how much do you want to spend?" is always in effect, and very much so in this case.
Clearly some cans are better than others, just like some cars are better than others. But how do you define "better"? The can nerds will point to only the data and only care about how quiet the suppressor is. They *may* care about how it's made as it affects longevity, but this is typically even more academic since most will never shoot the volume of fire at the rate required to make even the crappiest cans fail. Discussions of "best" therefore, in these circles tend to focus on these factors alone and leave out features that are of more importance to many actual users. Factors like cost, length, weight, length added to weapon, mounting system, and even longevity, solvency, stability and marketing tactics of the company. Not to mention initial cost, which is often the strictest factor for many purchasers.
Many purchasers of firearms and firearms accessories (and cars, and motorcycles, and houses, and...) are as equally concerned with the perception of their purchases among their peers as they are with any of the above. A guy that shoots in a club where GemTech is considered the "best" will quite often buy one himself just because it's what fits in. A member of an online forum where another brand is considered "best" may buy a can from that company to make that bunch happy.
I say all that to point out that you have two choices. The first is to educate yourself, figure out what features are important to you, learn about metallurgy, welding, fabrication, etc. Unfortunately, for right now, there is no Explanation of Features that goes with the can chart linked to above. There are a lot of reasons for that, not the least of which is having too many other irons in the fire.
The second is to take a simpler approach. Stick to cans made by the 'big names" in silencers, to include GemTech, Advanced Armament, Surefire, and Knight's Armament (with some slightly smaller companies like SWR, AWC, Yankee Hill, and Ops thrown in as well if you'd like). These are well-established companies, with with plenty of product out on the market, with good quality product reputations (in spite of the mud slinging against one another that some of them participate in) and they generally produce good products. Limit your education to the basics like length, weight, and price and choose accordingly.
I would personally avoid makers outside of those listed above. I have no interest in these little one-man outfits making silencers in their mom's basement, making outlandish claims as to noise reduction and materials, and claiming that secret military units are using their product with zero proof.
Factoring out the "me-too-ism" and the buying to belong crowd, not to mention those that ignorantly become obsessed with a 1 or 2 decibel difference at the exclusion of all else, I have a few that I would recommend at different price points.
YHM Stainless Phantom $585 (http://yhm.net/store/SSphantom556.html)
Decent quality, fast attach mount, relatively inexpensive ($585 is MSRP and they can be had for less) and many dealers will have them in stock because they are cheap to carry. They may not be made of all the high-tech materials, with all the latest and greatest processes, but frankly I'm a little tired of listening to guys that shoot 100 rounds a year suppressed crow about their wunder-can that cost 3x as much.
Gem-Tech G5 $850 (http://gem-tech.com/G5.html)
Gem-Tech has been around a long time, making cans for a long time. The G5 is a good, mid-price-point can that will more than meet the needs of the vast majority of the Form 4 market.
Advanced Armament M4-2000 $999 (plus $100+ for a mount) (http://www.advanced-armament.com/product.aspx?pid=59)
Good mounting system, good, well made can with top shelf materials. Probably a better can than 99% of their "lifestyle" purchasers will ever make use of.
Surefire FA556 series ~$1200+ (http://www.surefire.com/RifleCarbineSuppressors556mm223Caliber)
Very good (meaning minimal) POI shift when shooting suppressed/unsuppressed. Good mounting system.
One final note. If you haven't heard a 5.56 can in person, make arrangements to do so before you purchase. buying a 5.56 can without having ever heard one prior is the surest way to a huge disappointment. Once you decide on the can you think you want, figure out a way to get hands, and ears, on that particular model so that the features you think look good on paper actually translate to being good in person.
What about tactical innovations?
That is the only one I have heard in person, on an AR-15 and one on a .22lr. Seemed like they were very good for the price.
Rob, that is exactly what I needed. Thank you for your time. You have helped me and one other guy unravel the mystery, "to a certain extent". As much as I need to anyway.
Again , thank you!
Markm and myself fired my M4-2000 last weekend to include some night shooting. The amount of flash and sound reduction was simply phenomenal. I would say that it sounded a little louder than a Ruger 10/22.
shooter521
09-22-09, 09:21
Good resource and thoughts, Rob, thanks. Do you have any plans to add other caliber cans (9mm, .22LR) to the chart in the future?
With regards to suppressor comparisons in general, I would seriously consider paying the free ( IIRC 30$ ) for the premium membership at www.silencerresearch.com
Lot of good info on various types of suppressors and the gathered sound data is taken with the correct measuring devices and the data is independent.
Markm and myself fired my M4-2000 last weekend to include some night shooting. The amount of flash and sound reduction was simply phenomenal. I would say that it sounded a little louder than a Ruger 10/22.
Indeed. I posted this in another thread....
Your M4-2000 on your 11.5" was as quiet as my M4-1000 on my 14.5" barrel. I've fired cans on 11.5s that seemed a lot louder than your set up.... to the point that it was hurting my right ear a little.
Speaking of the 1000... It goes for $650 (+100 for a mount) and was not mentioned above.
Silencertalk has SOME good info, but be aware it is very AAC biased. Lot of fanboys in there
Thanks Rob....not my first choice but but ended up deciding on a phantom. I know squat about cans, but I have to say the SAS held side by side to the phantom was 'cleaner in appearance' but went with the yhm and dad got the sas. I wanted the m4-1000 but was not in stock.
I'm not in the same league with you guys here, but glad to hear my $$$$$ was spent wisely....hurry up and wait. :):)
Could it be because it's affiliated with AAC? Hmmmm.....
Silencertalk has SOME good info, but be aware it is very AAC biased. Lot of fanboys in there
What is the pecking order from best to worst with cans. KAC, Gemtech......
I know very little and I have heard 2 different opinions. One, buy the best, two: the cheaper are just as good. Now this is rarely true as we know. I looked at the stickies and saw no such info. Is there a Sticky like the AR15 sticky from Rob, which is flat awesome. I am looking for AR15 5.56 (Colt 6940 & LMT Defender both 16inch) and .45ACP for my HK45.
A quick: here are the top 5 to consider and "why" would be a great help. I am not LEO, they would be for classes, possible Hm defense, and general shooting. :confused::confused:
You have had a lot of good feedback in this thread. I will add a couple things.
First, most people have only had experience with one or two cans. So they are really just going off of a friends opinion or the errornet.
Most all of the 556 cans that are out there are within a few DB's of one another. Of those, some will handle FA better than others, but most people do not shoot FA so that is not really a concern.
What matters to me is POI shift. If I zero the gun with the can on and then take the can off, how much shift is there? To me, anything over 1" is not acceptable. To date, the ONLY can that I have found that has under 1" are the SureFire cans. Mine actually has about .3 shift (if that). Simply fantastic.
So if you are going to zero the weapon with the can on and then intend to shoot the gun a lot WITHOUT the can on, POI shift is REALLY going to matter to you.
C4
Very good point, I have a Swr Omega 30 on my REM700 and the poi shift is like 3inches to the left. How much shift does the AAC SPR/M4 get? And does the MITER help or is it a gimmick?
No Bananas
09-26-09, 23:26
What about the SWR Wolverine. I have not heard many cans, I must preface that. I thought it did a pretty good job. It's not quick attach. I never hear anything about it on the boards. ???
I would need a can that has a quick attach. I saw a Surefire on my buddies and was amazed how nice it was and quickly it attached. The only thing I didn't like was it takes a little effort to mount the adaptor/brake/flashhider on a rifle because it has to be timed on. I ordered a AAC SPR/M4 after reading it's test data on silencerresearch, and the fact that it can be manipulated to change the POI Shift. I shall see in a few months if it's worth all the fuss..
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