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Zip06
07-03-06, 21:05
Time to get additional mags for my AR's. My rule has always been if it does not have an NSN look for one that does. Am I wrong?

RyanB
07-03-06, 21:10
Brownells mags are good.

gcpd19
07-03-06, 23:20
I'm really into C Products at the moment. As for long term use, I don't know, but everything indicates that they are more than a field expedient item.

HarveyMushman
07-03-06, 23:24
Time to get additional mags for my AR's. My rule has always been if it does not have an NSN look for one that does. Am I wrong?

Do you have mags that actually have an NSN on the bottom? Who are they made by?



HM

TigerStripe
07-04-06, 02:22
If you want some good aluminum mags buy C Products. If you want some mags that will take a lot of abuse, buy C Products Stainless mags. The best!

http://cproductsllc.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/0073.3.4648329721900023181

Stainless mags begin about half way down the page.



TS

Zip06
07-04-06, 07:44
Do you have mags that actually have an NSN on the bottom? Who are they made by?



HM
My current mags do not have NSN's imprinted on them but they are all from manufacturers who have or had Government contracts for mags and are identical to those production runs. My current mags are primarily Okay's and LaBelles.

sledge42
07-04-06, 08:02
Harveymushman.

ive got mags that have the NSN 1005-00-921-5004 on the wrapper but not on the bottom and they are made by Center Industries corp--- Wichita KS......all the others i have say.
--Sanchez ENT----manfield,OH
--La Belle IND----Oconomowoc,WI
--Colt----Hartford,CT
then the others have Adventure Line MFG---Parsons,KS
i checked them all and the only ones that have the nsn are the ones from center ind corp...hope thats any help for somebody

Robb Jensen
07-04-06, 08:20
I use all kinds of mags for range work or just blasting. For competition, training and in my go to rifle case I use HK 30 rounders.

ArchAngel
07-04-06, 17:39
I've used the Brownells mags for several schools and range sessions.

I've also handled and used CProducts and they were really nice.

A good quality mil-spec mag by a reputible company should be good to go.

If I could ever twist myself to do it I'd drop the money for 10 HK mags but I see them as vanity/"gotta have" mags not necessity.

My next batch will probably be CProducts. I have found a deal on D&H for $9 each but haven't moved on it yet.

Hoplophile
07-04-06, 19:00
I'm sure others can provide more accurate info, but didn't I read somewhere that Brownells mags were being purchased for .mil use?

And didn't I read somewhere else that Brownell's mags are made by C Products?

VA_Dinger
07-04-06, 20:29
IMO: HK mags are undeniably the "Best" mags available - Hands down.

Not everybody has a "Need" for this good of a mag though and they are expensive (Even at $30-$35 each). But, in my opinion they are worth $35 each just for the piece of mind.

I know we have all read the negative "Reviews" (And I use this term loosely) on "other" forums but I would not give two cents for their opinion. Anybody who states they are less durable than a standard GI mag has absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Hell, I seriously question if they have even been within ten miles of an actual HK mag. It's nothing but waste of bandwidth BS.

I'm not saying GI mags are worthless by any means. Hell, I own plenty that work like a champ.

TigerStripe
07-04-06, 22:57
IMO: HK mags are undeniably the "Best" mags available - Hands down.

Not everybody has a "Need" for this good of a mag though and they are expensive (Even at $30-$35 each). But, in my opinion they are worth $35 each just for the piece of mind.

I know we have all read the negative "Reviews" (And I use this term loosely) on "other" forums but I would not give two cents for their opinion. Anybody who states they are less durable than a standard GI mag has absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Hell, I seriously question if they have even been within ten miles of an actual HK mag.

HK mags are definitely better than USGI mags. They are beautiful. They are so pretty and so expensive that I don't take mine out and use them (much). I buy and use C Products mags and beat the hell out of them. They are durable, reliable and just cheap enough that I don't care about (trying to) tearing them up. They cost $17.95 each and you can get eleven of them and ten extra Magpul followers for $179.50 if you act tonight. Post on that other board in the EE tonight and you can either call in for them tomorrow or buy them online if they get their site up before time is up. Shameless plug but I believe in them that much.

TS

VA_Dinger
07-04-06, 23:50
HK mags are definitely better than USGI mags. They are beautiful. They are so pretty and so expensive that I don't take mine out and use them (much). I buy and use C Products mags and beat the hell out of them. They are durable, reliable and just cheap enough that I don't care about (trying to) tearing them up. They cost $17.95 each and you can get eleven of them and ten extra Magpul followers for $179.50 if you act tonight. Post on that other board in the EE tonight and you can either call in for them tomorrow or buy them online if they get their site up before time is up. Shameless plug but I believe in them that much.

TS

I'm sure C Products mags are a great product. I have handled a few and they seemed very high quality. Just becuase I prefer HK mags does not mean that I think everything else is crap. I'm sorry if I gave that impression.

TigerStripe
07-05-06, 02:26
I'm sure C Products mags are a great product. I have handled a few and they seemed very high quality. Just becuase I prefer HK mags does not mean that I think everything else is crap. I'm sorry if I gave that impression.

No, I didn't get that impression at all. Just pointing out that there's something better than standard aluminum and costs less than the HK mags.

TS

Hawkeye
07-06-06, 10:18
H&K mags are definitely top shelf mags. I have a few and love them. However, C Products SS mags are pretty much what I'll most likely be going with in the future. The couple that I got to try out have really impressed me. For me, they are almost as good as an H&K mag, but allow me to add Lumpy plates to them, which has become a must have in my book.

mvician
07-06-06, 15:42
I've been buying used USGI mags when I see them for $5 or less shipped. A little time spent on cleaning and new followers/springs, a new coat of Perma-Slik G and they're good to go. Could just buy new CP mags for around $10, but I'm having fun. :D

Mike

downrangetacticalsolution
07-07-06, 02:49
If you want the best AR15 mags. H&K's High reliability mags are the way to go. Unmatched quality and reliability.


http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g85/downrangetacticalsolutions/Magazines/DTS0011.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g85/downrangetacticalsolutions/Magazines/DTS006.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g85/downrangetacticalsolutions/Magazines/DTS005.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g85/downrangetacticalsolutions/Magazines/DTS003.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g85/downrangetacticalsolutions/Magazines/DTS001.jpg

ArchAngel
07-07-06, 12:55
If you want the best AR15 mags. H&K's High reliability mags are the way to go. Unmatched quality and reliability.


http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g85/downrangetacticalsolutions/Magazines/DTS0011.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g85/downrangetacticalsolutions/Magazines/DTS006.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g85/downrangetacticalsolutions/Magazines/DTS005.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g85/downrangetacticalsolutions/Magazines/DTS003.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g85/downrangetacticalsolutions/Magazines/DTS001.jpg

Almost works of art! ;)

CapnCrunch
07-07-06, 14:50
HK mags don't do so well in Texas. I'm not a fan at all.

And yes, I've owned them, used them, posted reviews (with photos, over 3 years ago) of them, and they get trashed. If you drop them, the feedlips bend or crack, just like a USGI mag. If you live in a humid AO, they will rust. The followers corrode like crazy.

But then again, I guess I don't know anything ;)

Kisara
07-07-06, 14:59
And as I recall, you were the only one who has ever photos of them rusting. But of course, no one on other boards will believe a photo when its posted.

ArchAngel
07-07-06, 15:15
HK mags don't do so well in Texas. I'm not a fan at all.

And yes, I've owned them, used them, posted reviews (with photos, over 3 years ago) of them, and they get trashed. If you drop them, the feedlips bend or crack, just like a USGI mag. If you live in a humid AO, they will rust. The followers corrode like crazy.

But then again, I guess I don't know anything ;)

That is good info.

If one had any steel type of magazine in that type of AO they would just have to get used to treating them like steel mags for other weapon systems.

Everyone has tastes of what they like and want and what they use for practical sakes.

KevinB
07-07-06, 16:03
C Products http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Afghan%20Take%20II/MAGS001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Afghan%20Take%20II/MAGS004.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Afghan%20Take%20II/MAGS005.jpg

I'm not the biggest HK mag fan (heavy -- mine rusted too) and I cant use Ranger Plates.

However I will admit I had some rust after shipping to Afghan of the C Products mag springs...

No function issues at all though

CapnCrunch
07-07-06, 16:05
No kidding. A picture is worth a thousand posts... Every single one flaming the dog poop outta me.

It's not like I kept them in saltwater for a week or anything. The followers corroded, the springs corroded, and the inside of the mag corroded. The exterior was fine, aside from normal finish wear. It's just really humid here, and those particular mags didn't like that. I'm not saying they're terrible mags, but they're certainly not on my list of favorites.

Did you save those pics, by any chance? My HD crashed, and I lost them :(

Kevin, great to see you here! I agree... If I'm going to use steel, it'll be the C-Products. They've held up amazingly well. I thought I'd hate them, but I've fallen in love. I also like the ability to use Lumpy/Ranger Plates, and no added OAL to the mag when compared to a standard USGI.

Burrwood
07-10-06, 11:59
I'm sure others can provide more accurate info, but didn't I read somewhere that Brownells mags were being purchased for .mil use?

And didn't I read somewhere else that Brownell's mags are made by C Products?
I trying to remember where I read that also.
Next time I talk to Larry at CProducts I will ask about the Brownell's magazines.

Hoplophile
07-10-06, 19:21
I trying to remember where I read that also.
Next time I talk to Larry at CProducts I will ask about the Brownell's magazines.
It was on Lightfighter at http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7206084761/m/4061083722

EliteA4Aggie
07-16-06, 11:38
i like the Cproduct mags

C4IGrant
07-16-06, 13:14
Magazine selection is a personal thing. In my mind, you have to take all things into account (internals used, cost, fit/finish & reliability). I personally am a fan of the Magpul Ranger plates and L plates. I cannot use these in the HK mags so that killed them for me right off the bat. They are of course are heavy and expensive as well, but that never bothered me.

For the money, I would have to say the CProducts SS mags are the best mag on the market when you add up what you get for what you pay (Magpul Gen II follower, CS Spring, SS body/floor plate and flat black finish). You can also get 30rds into these mags and they feel like an Alum. mag downloaded to 28rds when doing a tac reload.

There was a apparently a test done by the Border Patrol which involved HK mags, CProducts SS mags and I think the current .Mil supplier. The CProducts mags beat them all. I will post the test results when I get them.

For those of you interested in trying out CProducts SS mags, drop me a line as I offer M4Carbine member pricing on them!



C4

SuicideHz
08-16-06, 10:07
TS- Not trying to start anything, but you refer to C Products as "they" in the following quote buy you have "C Products" in your sig line. What gives? You just really like them? I personally wouldn't think it's a good idea to put a company's name in your sig line unless you are affiliated, which you might be, I just don't know.


HK mags are definitely better than USGI mags. They are beautiful. They are so pretty and so expensive that I don't take mine out and use them (much). I buy and use C Products mags and beat the hell out of them. They are durable, reliable and just cheap enough that I don't care about (trying to) tearing them up. They cost $17.95 each and you can get eleven of them and ten extra Magpul followers for $179.50 if you act tonight. Post on that other board in the EE tonight and you can either call in for them tomorrow or buy them online if they get their site up before time is up. Shameless plug but I believe in them that much.

TS

ETA: Saw your response. I understand. I meant to say that coming into a mag thread and commenting with a company's name in your sig might confuse people.

ChromeLined
08-16-06, 17:06
I think steel AR mags in general are better than GI aluminum..with the c products stainless steel they wont rust and are less maintenance.I use the brit steel and singapore grey steel mags thjat mimick US GI..I love em but I have to take care of em the way I do my M14,and AK mags.I find they do take more abuse than aluminum and dont buldge over time but I agree ive dropped a few and they can dent the body and feed lips just like an aluminum mag but still are more durable.

Cold
08-16-06, 23:47
I bought several mags from a company out of Ft. Worth Texas called DSG ( I believe its for Defense Solutions Group) there mags have been stand up thus far, I had mag pul rangers and the anti tilt followers installed and so far, they have worked like a top.

Just adding in another company into the mix.

TigerStripe
08-17-06, 00:05
I bought several mags from a company out of Ft. Worth Texas called DSG ( I believe its for Defense Solutions Group) there mags have been stand up thus far, I had mag pul rangers and the anti tilt followers installed and so far, they have worked like a top.

Just adding in another company into the mix.

Yeah, that's them. (Defense Solutions Group). I think they're marketed as enhanced reliabilty mags. They have a D&H mag body.

TS

C4IGrant
08-17-06, 08:02
I bought several mags from a company out of Ft. Worth Texas called DSG ( I believe its for Defense Solutions Group) there mags have been stand up thus far, I had mag pul rangers and the anti tilt followers installed and so far, they have worked like a top.

Just adding in another company into the mix.

DSG mags are nothing more than re-badged D&H mags. You can get the same mags from Bravo Company (for most likely less coin).


C4

Cyclic240B
08-17-06, 23:02
I have a lot of G.I. mags I picked up along the way. I have a lot of C Products mags I have picked up lately. IMHO, the C Products mags are better....

M193 BALL
08-25-06, 17:13
I have been useing the OLD COLT 20 rounders with Metal Followers Most of the time
I like them the BEST of ALL

I like them alot better than the Curve BLACK D&H 20 rounders that I have!

I also like MOST ALL USGI 20/30 rounders

I have great luck with THERMOLDS
I like the loaders and strippers better than the USGI type

MountainM4A1
08-28-06, 10:19
I have HK , USGI, and CP SS mags.

The CProducts SS mags are very nice and take a lot of abuse.

jwbradle
08-29-06, 13:53
I have/had most available AR mags. except the plastic ones. All have been alluminum except the stainless steel ones I just got from C Products. The C products, stainless steels are like comparing a diamond to a hunk of coal. They are heavier than Al. but that is the only drawback. Fit and finish is excellent and the followers move up and down like they are greased. They are more expensive but worth every penny. I have shot several mags full from each one and they preformed flawlessly. I have changed my 'ready to go' kit by replacing all the old Al. mags. I am not easily impressed by much of the gear out there, but these mags. are as good as they get. jb

TigerStripe
09-05-06, 01:30
TS- Not trying to start anything, but you refer to C Products as "they" in the following quote buy you have "C Products" in your sig line. What gives? You just really like them? I personally wouldn't think it's a good idea to put a company's name in your sig line unless you are affiliated, which you might be, I just don't know.

Oops! Somehow I missed your post somehow. I am in no way, shape, or form affiliated with C Products. I did win a contest for naming C Products version of a mag pull or Ranger plate, the Tacti-Pull "over there" and won 5 stainless mags. I thought putting C Products mags in my sigline was not much different than someone using a version of a company name as their member name. If me having C Products in my sigline makes it look like I'm affiliated with them or there is a problem with it, I'll remove it.

TS

ROSS4712
09-05-06, 07:23
I'd stick with the USGI especially Okay Industries if you can get them. The only other mags I would recommend and haven't had a problem with yet for fit, finish and reliability are the DSG Arms mags. Their teflon coating hasn't so much as a scratch and I order then direct from the factory with lumpy plates and MP Gen2 followers.

All of my Okay's are outfitted the same and I have never had a problem.

HK's are great and come at a great expense. The USGI mags are made to take a beating and be thrown away when they are damaged or used up. They don't cost an arm and a leg to get either.

C Products mags are good to go but early on I had some severe finish issues and have never bought any more. They were outstanding on the functioning and reliability but if I have a problem with anything once I'll never go back again.

There are tons of great deals and everyone has a favorite like Ford or Chevy. I say get a few and try them out before making a huge purchase or stick with what you have currently used and you know won't fail you.

One thing I hate is going to something new and finiding out you should have stayed with what you knew worked in the first place.

Life's hard.........it's harder if you're stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve
09-05-06, 09:30
A finish is a finish,


I currently run 30 ss C prods
and have about another 20 in there aluminums

my bedside and duty mags are hk mags gen II

the c prods ss have been 100 % for me so far, in training and matches and classes and the finish is wearing off them so ok....... i own krylon and wally world paint when they get real bad they get a dusting of paint and way a we go..............................

STLRN
09-09-06, 16:39
The way I look at it if, you want to use H&K than more power to you. I know I had them issued to me and there are still some in my field gear, but I am not that big of a fan of them. When my unit got its new A4s and M4s I attempted to get Magpul upgrades via GSA sales, however the powers that be decided they would spend the 33 dollars a piece for H&Ks for all the weapons instead. All was fine and good until we started our predeployment training program. Part of that was quite a few ranges and surprise of surprises the new, really expensive magazines caused allot of double feeds with our M4s. So much so we took all the H&Ks back from carbine bearers and gave them standard USGI magazines.

What we also found was that the H&Ks were much more dent prone than the standard magazines when doing speed reloads, and the shorter feed lips would almost always go TU if the mag hit the deck lips down if dropped. In the end we had to DRMO several thousand dollars of dented magazines.

DOUBLETAP76
09-10-06, 03:12
I use USGI Mags.. I purchased a few CP mags and so far there funtion has been excallent so far..

DT!

justbill
09-14-06, 17:50
I've had 100% reliability with my AR Stoners from Midway, which are of course manufactured by CProducts. I couldn't ask for more from mags that cost $10 on sale.

Voodoochild
09-18-06, 10:36
This reminds me I need to order some more mags. Global tactical has the aluminum mags with CS springs and magpul followers for like 9 bucks. i also need to pick up some more ammo as well.

Cobratech823
09-25-06, 19:07
As far as mags go. With the way the market is now, C products are a great value. HK in my book are over priced and hyped up to be more than they really are. I've used USGI mags in situations with no failures what so ever.





Stay with Mil spec alum mags for the price and proven reliability. Besides Denny has a deal for $50 or more free shipping on any amount. I got 6 today in black marlube finnish.:p

davemcdonald
09-26-06, 23:35
"DSG mags are nothing more than re-badged D&H mags"

I can't speak about all DSG's mags but I know the DSG FDE mags are not just re-badged D&H mags just like a BCM upper is not just a re-badged Stag upper. As with just about any manufacturer, if you place a large enough order they will make their product they way you want it as is the case with the FDE mag. The mag body is made by D&H but the Flat Dark Earth HCA and Teflon coating was spec'd out by DSG, who was coerced by alot of begging and pleading by me. There was alot of T&E and R&D that went into the FDE mags for specific reasons other than just a pretty color. Although I have to admit that the color is cool :cool:

Dave

C4IGrant
09-27-06, 08:53
"DSG mags are nothing more than re-badged D&H mags"

I can't speak about all DSG's mags but I know the DSG FDE mags are not just re-badged D&H mags just like a BCM upper is not just a re-badged Stag upper. As with just about any manufacturer, if you place a large enough order they will make their product they way you want it as is the case with the FDE mag. The mag body is made by D&H but the Flat Dark Earth HCA and Teflon coating was spec'd out by DSG, who was coerced by alot of begging and pleading by me. There was alot of T&E and R&D that went into the FDE mags for specific reasons other than just a pretty color. Although I have to admit that the color is cool :cool:

Dave


Roger Dave, can you tell me the differences are (beside color)? I have seen these mags and also know what D&H Distr. he gets them from and have not seen any difference between them and the regular D&H mags.

I also don't think the BCM and Stag comparision is quite right as Stag is closer to RRA (1/9 twist, rifle barrel extension, 4140) than to BCM (1/7, 4150, M4 barrel extension).


C4

Pat_Rogers
09-27-06, 09:19
I don't know the differences (if any) either, but just finished three 5 day classes, almost all mil, where we fired appx 200,000 rds of 5.56. I passed 10 of these DSG FDE mags out to the shooters, and had no mag related problems (not a suprise) and neither did i see much (if any) wear on the FDE finish.
Considering the abuse, pretty good kit.
I have a few more abusive classes coming up in this quarter, so we'll see how they do down the line.

C4IGrant
09-27-06, 09:22
I don't know the differences (if any) either, but just finished three 5 day classes, almost all mil, where we fired appx 200,000 rds of 5.56. I passed 10 of these DSG FDE mags out to the shooters, and had no mag related problems (not a suprise) and neither did i see much (if any) wear on the FDE finish.
Considering the abuse, pretty good kit.
I have a few more abusive classes coming up in this quarter, so we'll see how they do down the line.

Agree Pat. I have been running upgraded D&H mags (ISMI Springs, Magpul GEN II followers) for some time and they have worked perfectly.

It is good to hear that the finish is holding up.



C4

davemcdonald
09-27-06, 13:50
I can't and or will not talk about much of the spec's of the FDE mag as I do not feel that is my place. My name is not on all the legalese paperwork that is involved with the contracts. I am just an end user that talked a buddy into to bringing into production a project that I felt had a niche. There are many magazine options out there and I am not saying any one is better that another. Everybody has their own preferences, opinions and situations that guide their decisions in life and no two people will completely agree on anything.

I can say that the finish is a mil-spec anodized FDE finish sealed in Teflon and the finish is a large part of what sets the mags apart from the other options. The body is manufactured by D&H and the Generation II Flat Dark Earth follower is manufactured by MagPul. I have yet to see a Gen II MagPul follower in FDE on any other magazine. How can there be any difference for Paul, contracting with CMT to manufacture his upper receivers to his exact spec's and D&H manufacturing magazine bodies for DSG to their exact spec? CMT and D&H are both playing the roles as contractors and both BCM and DSG are providing dependable tools of the trade. I agree that Stag and RRA are not manufactured to the same quality that is produced by BCM but CMT makes some of the parts for all three so it is the little things like quality control and cool colored HCA and other desirable options that sets everybody apart.

I will also say that if you decide to get with your buddy that is the D&H distributor to make you some FDE G&R Tactical mags with FDE Gen II MagPul followers then I will be happy to buy some from you :) In the end the good guys get good dependable tools for the job at hand.

C4IGrant
09-27-06, 14:11
I can't and or will not talk about much of the spec's of the FDE mag as I do not feel that is my place. My name is not on all the legalese paperwork that is involved with the contracts. I am just an end user that talked a buddy into to bringing into production a project that I felt had a niche. There are many magazine options out there and I am not saying any one is better that another. Everybody has their own preferences, opinions and situations that guide their decisions in life and no two people will completely agree on anything.

I can say that the finish is a mil-spec anodized FDE finish sealed in Teflon and the finish is a large part of what sets the mags apart from the other options. The body is manufactured by D&H and the Generation II Flat Dark Earth follower is manufactured by MagPul. I have yet to see a Gen II MagPul follower in FDE on any other magazine. How can there be any difference for Paul, contracting with CMT to manufacture his upper receivers to his exact spec's and D&H manufacturing magazine bodies for DSG to their exact spec? CMT and D&H are both playing the roles as contractors and both BCM and DSG are providing dependable tools of the trade. I agree that Stag and RRA are not manufactured to the same quality that is produced by BCM but CMT makes some of the parts for all three so it is the little things like quality control and cool colored HCA and other desirable options that sets everybody apart.

I will also say that if you decide to get with your buddy that is the D&H distributor to make you some FDE G&R Tactical mags with FDE Gen II MagPul followers then I will be happy to buy some from you :) In the end the good guys get good dependable tools for the job at hand.


Dave, again I think the only REAL difference in the mags is the color. I also understand that Magpul did some Gen II followers in a different color for DSG. When all is said and done, we are still talking about color and nothing more. The heart of the mag still remains a standard D&H body and floor plate (with DSG's name on it). Bravo company basically offers the same mag except that they aren't in FDE.

Please invite DSG to this thread so we can learn why and how the DSG mags are different or better than the D&H mags.



C4

Hawkeye
09-27-06, 14:11
I am taking it then that one will be well served by either the DSG or CProducts mags...?

C4IGrant
09-27-06, 14:16
I am taking it then that one will be well served by either the DSG or CProducts mags...?


Most certainly! My only point is that I get a lot of folks that have asked me in the past what is so special about the DSG mags VS a D&H mag with a D&H floor plate and upgraded follower. The simple answer is nothing (less color).



C4

TigerStripe
09-27-06, 19:00
I have some Bravo D&H mags and they work, I just prefer the C Products SS mags. Pat, have you tested or used the C Products stainless mags?

TIA,

TS

Steve
09-27-06, 19:11
I have some Bravo D&H mags and they work, I just prefer the C Products SS mags. Pat, have you tested or used the C Products stainless mags?

TIA,

TS



Not Pat, (but iam taller and better looking)

I have been runing 30 ss C-prods for close to 7 months and over 6k rounds including one of Pat's classe's and several other and monthy matches with no issue's

Heavy Metal
09-27-06, 19:30
Magazine selection is a personal thing. In my mind, you have to take all things into account (internals used, cost, fit/finish & reliability). I personally am a fan of the Magpul Ranger plates and L plates. I cannot use these in the HK mags so that killed them for me right off the bat. They are of course are heavy and expensive as well, but that never bothered me.

For the money, I would have to say the CProducts SS mags are the best mag on the market when you add up what you get for what you pay (Magpul Gen II follower, CS Spring, SS body/floor plate and flat black finish). You can also get 30rds into these mags and they feel like an Alum. mag downloaded to 28rds when doing a tac reload.

There was a apparently a test done by the Border Patrol which involved HK mags, CProducts SS mags and I think the current .Mil supplier. The CProducts mags beat them all. I will post the test results when I get them.

For those of you interested in trying out CProducts SS mags, drop me a line as I offer M4Carbine member pricing on them!



C4


Glad to hear you are carring them Grant, I will be ordering a couple dozen from you in the spring.. You have found another fiendish way to apropriate more of my hard earned wampum!:D

TigerStripe
09-27-06, 19:51
Not Pat, (but iam taller and better looking)

I have been runing 30 ss C-prods for close to 7 months and over 6k rounds including one of Pat's classe's and several other and monthy matches with no issue's


Good to hear that. I abuse mine, but nothing like one of you guys does. I need to get a few more myself. :)


TS

Pat_Rogers
09-27-06, 19:55
Steve- Bite me!!
TS- negative, i have not used any CP mags. If they want to do they can provide 10 of a type for test to destruction, and i'd try to find the time to do it in 07. However, my company has a fair stock of working magazines, so i will not buy anymore for any reason.
As Steve stated, some CP mags have been through my classes, with results both good and less so- about like all mags.
I don't require people to give me a list of what they are using (though i wish i could- what a data base!). We tried it once- people can't read; can't print legibly; can't recall; lie; or have fantasies about what they did. One guy with a BM had a broken bolt. On his form he wrote "No Problems". Apparently the definition of problem is akin to POTUS having sex.
Re magazines- base plate are changed/ replaced, and the maker of the body belongs to the ages. Makes it hard to draw conclusions
Using a Magpul follower is the single best thing you can do to a magazine. Replacing the spring is second, and while i use Wolff or SAW Sales springs on most of mine, i am unsure as to how much better it is then an issue spring (in practical terms).
Mags are wear items, and that is the biggest problem. People fall in love with them.
A friend, who understands that Colt doesn't make magazines insists on using only those with Colt floorplates. I had another friend that - during the AWB- salvaged a bunch of Colt stamped floorplates, put them on beat up GI mags and sold them to people who absolutely insisted on giving him big bucks for it- even after he told them that they weren't Colt mags.
I had a mil class that suffered multiple Type 3 malfunctions with the HK mags- and this isn't the first time. All mags wear.
I hate black, except on hot chicks. Black has no business on a gun.
I like DSG's FDE finish. Beats having to paint mags (though that is always an option) and it looks to last. The mags work, the follower is Magpul and the color is GTG.
I'll run these 10 (actually six now, i left four with a soon to be deploying troop) until i get a bunch more rounds downrange on them.
I'm just happy that there are magazines of good quality available, and that more than one company is making them.

Steve
09-27-06, 20:25
If i recall, Pat covered all This in a not to past SWAT article as well.


Good stuff for sure.

Pat_Rogers
09-27-06, 20:34
What, somebody actually reads what i write??? I am shocked i tell you schocked....
But, thanks Steve!

Harv
09-27-06, 20:48
From Pat Roger's


What, somebody actually reads what i write??? I am shocked i tell you schocked....
But, thanks Steve!

I need more pictures...... I'm learning Impaired... you know that......;)

davemcdonald
09-27-06, 20:52
Thanks for the update Pat. I hope they continue to run well for you. In a Ranger's hand going down range is were the FDE mags should be. Thanks

Dave

BTW I don't read your articles, I just look at the pictures:D

TigerStripe
09-27-06, 20:54
What, somebody actually reads what i write??? I am shocked i tell you schocked....
But, thanks Steve!

I read the article as well. And I still have the magazine (the paper type). I understand the dislike of black. There were attempts "over there" to get Larry/CP to make an OD or DE mag, Rusty ended up having them made on the D&H mag bodies. I "love" my mags, but not if they are malfuntioning. That's why I have a decent supply of back ups. I think C Products should, 1) send you some mags to evaluate and 2) think about a color other than black. I haven't had a failure with a CP mag yet and I have a thousand rounds through my two main CP SS mags. Thanks for your reply!

TS

Steve
09-27-06, 21:12
What, somebody actually reads what i write??? I am shocked i tell you schocked....
But, thanks Steve!


I always listen and read what you write and say..........

ask Harv

Pat_Rogers
09-27-06, 21:17
Harv....
Oh yeah.

That Guy!

Steve
09-27-06, 21:59
yes he sits there as i read to him and show him the pictures......

Back on topic serious question now

Whats the report on the D&L mag boss

STLRN
09-27-06, 22:19
I had a mil class that suffered multiple Type 3 malfunctions with the HK mags- and this isn't the first time. All mags wear.

Pat

When instructing the EMP, I have seen a ton of double feeds caused by new H&K gen 2 maritime mags in M4s. They seem to work real well with A4s, but 150 or so M4s just weren't reliable with them. The problem seems to go away when a H3 or DPMS counter weight buffer is installed, so I assume the bolt velocity is too high.

Pat_Rogers
09-28-06, 03:21
Beats me. I have never seen HK mags/ A4's used together, so i'm off the trail on that one.
I have seen enough problems with those mags lately that i am re thinking my doctrine as it relates to them.
I have a bunch that are flawless, but have seen brand new ones 3 years ago that never worked (and a lot of them) as well as some recently.
I'll bring a spare H3 buffer with me the next time to see if that cures anything, and i appreciate the tip.

Steve- i have one D&L prototype (25rds only) for 6 months now, and it works like a charm. One is a poor statistical sample, so until i get some more i have to say only that the one i have is GTG.

C4IGrant
09-28-06, 09:07
What, somebody actually reads what i write??? I am shocked i tell you schocked....
But, thanks Steve!


I read everything you write! :D



C4

Pat_Rogers
09-28-06, 09:15
OK, that's two......

Submariner
09-28-06, 09:37
OK, that's two......

Make that three.:D

TigerStripe
09-28-06, 10:04
Actually, four.



TS

Austin_Nichols
09-30-06, 00:32
Who the hell is Pat Rogers?



















j/k as a first post here, I couldn't resist....:D

Turbo Supra
10-16-06, 14:03
Just wanted to add that I picked up a few new mags advertised at MidwayUSA.com for like $9.95 each. They use the grey Magpul followers and are marked "AR-Stoner" on the baseplates. Any idea who makes them for Stoner? I thought the Stoner name was only used by Knight's.

FWIW, they are very nice.

Austin_Nichols
10-16-06, 16:55
C-Products makes them. Good people.

http://cproductsllc.com/

docsprague
10-19-06, 14:57
Most of mine are C Products, I also have a few Brownells and they are good too. Other than that I have all the other major brands Okay, Labella, Colt, probably a few others. They all work. Several I have put new springs and followers in which seems to fix the problem of old age.

Glockster35
11-03-06, 19:05
Pat_Rogers,

Do you use the Wolff +10 percent springs? Or are they standard rate springs?

I have set aside six new 30 rounders ( I have many others) that I would like to make 100 percent reliable.

These magazines have not been test fired yet, I prefer to replace the internals with whatever is the best on the market, before I start using them. I already have the mag springs (+10 Wolff's) and am looking for new followers now. Since you mentioned the MagPull ones, and gave them your stamp of approval, I know they are the cat's meow, and will place an order.

I also want to replace the base plates with the Ranger/L Plates from magpull, but I do have 12 of their original MagPul's on hand, and can use them in the interim.

I do replace all my magazine springs at least once a year. Mostly because I keep my home protection magazines (for the AR) loaded at 28 rounds all year long, if they are stored in my gun cabinet. I have other magazines I use at the range or for training purposes, and eventually I will update a handfull for that purpose.

Interested in your thoughts on this topic.

Glockster35

C4IGrant
11-04-06, 07:50
Pat_Rogers,

Do you use the Wolff +10 percent springs? Or are they standard rate springs?

I have set aside six new 30 rounders ( I have many others) that I would like to make 100 percent reliable.

These magazines have not been test fired yet, I prefer to replace the internals with whatever is the best on the market, before I start using them. I already have the mag springs (+10 Wolff's) and am looking for new followers now. Since you mentioned the MagPull ones, and gave them your stamp of approval, I know they are the cat's meow, and will place an order.

I also want to replace the base plates with the Ranger/L Plates from magpull, but I do have 12 of their original MagPul's on hand, and can use them in the interim.

I do replace all my magazine springs at least once a year. Mostly because I keep my home protection magazines (for the AR) loaded at 28 rounds all year long, if they are stored in my gun cabinet. I have other magazines I use at the range or for training purposes, and eventually I will update a handfull for that purpose.

Interested in your thoughts on this topic.

Glockster35


Am not Pat, but would like to say that you are looking at springs like a wear item (which they are). Changing out springs is a good idea as they wear out (just sitting in the mags). Mags and extractors are the two biggest problem areas in the AR and keeping the springs in them fresh is a wise move.

I personally only use ISMI CS springs in my mags as they wear longer than SS springs.


C4

WILDBILL
11-13-06, 22:34
What is the best stuff that you can use to refinsh some very worn looking, older 30rd. mags to hold-up and look like new? I really don't want to have to bake it in a oven to cure it.

C4IGrant
11-14-06, 10:59
What is the best stuff that you can use to refinsh some very worn looking, older 30rd. mags to hold-up and look like new? I really don't want to have to bake it in a oven to cure it.


No finish is really going to last long if you don't want to bake it. Cerakote is about the best for wear.

If you want to do it yourseld, alumahyde (sp?) is an option.



C4

WILDBILL
11-14-06, 23:23
Grant, which one is the easyest to use and holds up the best?

C4IGrant
11-15-06, 08:28
Grant, which one is the easyest to use and holds up the best?


Well, I have not seen any of the DIY finishes hold up all that well (sorry). The Alumahyde is most likely your best option I think. The next best would be Duracoat, then KG Ceramic and then Black T and then Cerakote (as far as durability).




C4

Turbo Supra
11-17-06, 12:58
I agree with the Alumahyde suggestion!

I have reprayed quite a few old mags, and even new ones with the cheap grey finish. A little fine-grit sandpaper removes the old finish easily. After cleaning the mags, I use Alumahyde Flat Black. It dries to a satin-like finish that closely matches my RRA and Bushy lowers.

It holds up very well, although it will be tight in the magwell until the contact areas wear a bit. The finish is pretty scratch-resistant if you prep the painting surfaces well and apply 2 even coats.

WILDBILL
11-23-06, 06:45
What does everybody think about the easy way out and using Permasilk to coat the 30 rd. mag bodys and make them as close to new?

M4arc
11-23-06, 06:48
What does everybody think about the easy way out and using Permasilk to coat the 30 rd. mag bodys and make them as close to new?

Back in the ban days I used Permasilk to refinish dozens and dozens of magazines and I was always pleased with it. I still use some range mags that were refinished in 2002 timeframe. The stuff holds up fairly well.

WILDBILL
11-26-06, 02:08
Where can I buy some cans of Permasilk?

Dozer
11-30-06, 14:59
Where can I buy some cans of Permasilk?

Wildbill,
Try this place, this is where I got mine from. Don't ask me for a price since it has been a while since I bought it. It works great though.


http://www.neelyindustries.com/prod03.htm

S/F
Libardo

9mm MP5 Machinenpistole
12-16-06, 22:04
For the Okay manufactured magazines, the NSN is: 1005-00-921-5004.

Bliss
12-21-06, 16:52
DSG mags are nothing more than re-badged D&H mags. You can get the same mags from Bravo Company (for most likely less coin).

Depends which DSG mags you speak of, they offer a few different levels and yes you can buy the standard coated D&H but their enhanced mags are far better. I shoot mainly high speed full-auto and Rusty's mags perform flawlessly every time. I like the way he coats them, both inside and out and the kind-of flat dark earth finish has held up to several saltwater immersions with no visible rust.

The enhanced DSG mags are not standard D&H, DSG upgrades with wolfe springs and magpul gen 2 followers.

I also like Labelle and have had no problems whatsoever.

As for H&K, I don’t believe they’re worth the extra buck and my experiences with the new mags haven’t been good. Several of mine have floorplates that bust under tension when loaded. what's funny is that H&K always advertises that specop units use the mags but i've never seen them in use, mainly because of cost. i think it's all a marketing ploy to get law enforcement and mainly civvy’s to buy them.

ROSS4712
12-21-06, 18:20
A finish is a finish,


I currently run 30 ss C prods
and have about another 20 in there aluminums

my bedside and duty mags are hk mags gen II

the c prods ss have been 100 % for me so far, in training and matches and classes and the finish is wearing off them so ok....... i own krylon and wally world paint when they get real bad they get a dusting of paint and way a we go..............................

I know and I have had mags that have seen hard ass use over the last 2-3 years with some finish wear but they still hold up very well. They are all USGI Okays.

The problem I had with the C Products mags was fast. Never even shot them just turned around and sold them.

Came back from shot and was showing the old lady the new stuff since I had ordered 15 of them. Put it in and pulled it out of the mag well once and notice four very bright shiny rub marks and though damn that was fast wearing for one mag change.

I pushed and pulled it in and out of the mag well 20 times exactly after the first time I noticed bright coor's light beer can silver. With 20 in and outs of the mag well about 4 inches of the top of the mag was solid bright beer can aluminum except for the ridges which couldn't touch the mag well sides.

The wife even said those won't last with all the schools and shooting I do (10k+ a year). I have never seen a GI mags finish go like that.

I called C Products and they stated that the finish would rub off unless I bought the marlube finished mags which weren't due out for a couple of months.

I just turned around and sold them. They really were nice on the fit and function but that finish definitely wasn't satisfactory by any means and would not have held up to the amount of shooting and mag changes I would do.

C4IGrant
12-21-06, 19:27
Depends which DSG mags you speak of, they offer a few different levels and yes you can buy the standard coated D&H but their enhanced mags are far better. I shoot mainly high speed full-auto and Rusty's mags perform flawlessly every time. I like the way he coats them, both inside and out and the kind-of flat dark earth finish has held up to several saltwater immersions with no visible rust.

The enhanced DSG mags are not standard D&H, DSG upgrades with wolfe springs and magpul gen 2 followers.

I also like Labelle and have had no problems whatsoever.

As for H&K, I don’t believe they’re worth the extra buck and my experiences with the new mags haven’t been good. Several of mine have floorplates that bust under tension when loaded. what's funny is that H&K always advertises that specop units use the mags but i've never seen them in use, mainly because of cost. i think it's all a marketing ploy to get law enforcement and mainly civvy’s to buy them.


The "enhanced" DSG mags are still D&H bodied (alum) mags with an upgraded follower. I don't classify the wolfe spring as any kind of upgrade as it isn't CS. So it will wear out (lose strength) as time goes by. Extra power springs can also put to much pressure on rounds (holding them too tightly) and induce feeding issues (just an FYI).

The only TRUE difference that the DSG mags offer is that they are coated in FDE.

I believe that there is room for improvement in the mag market, so I took a CProducts SS body and had it cerakoted in FDE and OD. I then installed a Magul GEN II follower with a ISMI heat treated, shot peened, stress relieved CS spring and your choice of either a Magpul L or Ranger plate.



C4


http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Mags/Cerakoted%20FDE%20with%20L%20plate.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Mags/Cerakoted%20OD%20mag%20with%20L%20plate.jpg

Cold Zero
12-21-06, 19:42
grant;

will you cerakote customer's mags? if so, how much for the service?

C4IGrant
12-21-06, 19:43
grant;

will you cerakote customer's mags? if so, how much for the service?

Not at this time as I am having a hard time keeping up with what I got. :D



C4

Bliss
12-21-06, 19:46
I'll take the above into consideration.

Grant i like your coated mags better, truer to SOCOM FDE. How much? i'll take 200.

DSG's are not coated, they're anodized which is why they look more goldish.
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i146/specsystms/DSG.jpg

C4IGrant
12-21-06, 19:53
I'll take the above into consideration.

Grant i like your coated mags better, truer to SOCOM FDE. How much?

DSG's are not coated, they're anodized which is why they look more goldish.
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i146/specsystms/DSG.jpg

I am not trying to cut on what DSG has done, but I think Alum. mags are old technology (so to speak) and believe that the CProducts SS mag bodies are the way to go because they are stronger and don't rust.

I understand that anodizing is not a coating, but it does change the surface of the mag. It is nearly impossible to anodize alum and get a specific color (like FDE). If you are able to do it, it is again almost impossible to do it over and over.

The Cerakote FDE mags with L plates are $28 and with Ranger plates $29.



C4

Bliss
12-21-06, 20:09
I am not trying to cut on what DSG has done, but I think Alum. mags are old technology (so to speak) and believe that the CProducts SS mag bodies are the way to go because they are stronger and don't rust.

I understand that anodizing is not a coating, but it does change the surface of the mag. It is nearly impossible to anodize alum and get a specific color (like FDE). If you are able to do it, it is again almost impossible to do it over and over.

The Cerakote FDE mags with L plates are $28 and with Ranger plates $29.



C4

C4 I was not trying to skool you. i was not aware if you knew DSG's were anodized…of course you know the difference between the two and yes anodizing does change the surface; in fact it penetrates into the metal which is why it's hardwearing.

C4IGrant
12-22-06, 08:29
C4 I was not trying to skool you. i was not aware if you knew DSG's were anodized…of course you know the difference between the two and yes anodizing does change the surface; in fact it penetrates into the metal which is why it's hardwearing.

No offense taken.



C4

Heavy Metal
12-22-06, 19:49
If anyone wants a magazine paint preperation tip, you can use acetone like you get from an auto parts store to strip the dry film. It will easily strip it.

davemcdonald
12-22-06, 21:59
"The only TRUE difference that the DSG mags offer is that they are coated in FDE."

That is not necessarily true. If you applied the "Tier" system to magazines as you would an AR then the DSG mag would be a lot higher on the totem pole than D&H and most others. That is, if you added the quality control and the warranty. While there is no government employee sitting at DSG checking magazines, there are multiple levels of quality assurance. At least one is an out-sourced off site company that is contracted for the specific purpose of quality control. There are also in house quality control measures that are performed. If I remember correctly there is a max of 1% failure rate to meet government spec. Also DSG provides and backs up the warranty on their magazines. If there are any issues with a DSG mag then contact DSG and they will handle the problem. D&H is not involved. Somebody was talking about how great the customer service is of one company that delivered some magazines and close to half needed to be returned. If that was DSG and they shipped that high of a percentage of failures to some of their customers, I would ride a bicycle over to visit in fear of starting my truck after parking in their parking lot.:D

As I have said before when discussing the "tier" system, scope and scale plays a huge part in the grand scheme of things. DSG fills contracts with Uncle Sam and others in lots of 50K and 100K. Those mags are held to a high standard with a very low failure rate. Comparing a company like that to one that deals in lots of 100s to 1000s is like comparing apples to oranges. John Noveske or yourself Grant can build a much better rifle than what Colt turns out but Colt turns out weapons by the truck load that work and that is the scope and scale that should be considered with DSG mags. Can you build a better mousetrap? Well sure you can. Can you build a one hundred thousand better mouse traps in a month and get them into the hands of our soldiers? Now that is a great question.

The question about the springs is an interesting one. Even among the experts the difference between CS and stainless is one of semantics. For every expert that you find that is in the CS corner you will find one in the stainless corner. Pat Rogers has been running the DSG mags and hasn't reported any issues with the stainless springs. When the FDE mag was being spec'd out, CS was considered but some military units requested the stainless springs. They had had some bad experiences with H&K mags and wanted something less prone to rust. One such unit has a close affiliation to your MOS Grant.

I personally think the stainless magazine is the way to go. I am very interested in seeing how durable they are over the long term. CeraKote appears to be a good option also for the SS mags. Unfortunately we are a long way from seeing Joe issued cerakoted SS mags to take into harms way. The FDE mag was spec'd out with Joe in mind not the 3 gun competitors. I like Grants mags as well. They look great. I have a gallon of FDE cerakote right behind me that I can't way to start playing with.

Dave

Austin_Nichols
01-04-07, 21:20
Austin
I understand the "tier" system completely. Short answer, it is a made up description of which weapons are true military spec and which are not, everything else added to the "tier" is subjective. People pass it off as something more complicated than it really is. Colt and FN are true mil-spec and the other manufacturers are not. If you applied this short answer to magazines then DSG would be higher on the totem pole. I, however, did not apply the 'tier" system to magazines or DSG.

But you did indirectly when you wrote this:

If you applied the "Tier" system to magazines as you would an AR then the DSG mag would be a lot higher on the totem pole than D&H and most others.

My point questioning your understanding of the tier nomenclature comes from this statement. Comparing magazines to ARs is apples to oranges. Colt and FN are the only manufacturers that have a military contract to produce M16/M4 variants. As a consequence, they are the only two entities that possess Colt's TDP (in the US) and this creates a unique situation for all other manufacturers. This is all or nothing in that they are the only ones capable of being tier one; everyone else is not.



While a weapon is a durable item, a magazine is easily replaced and not considered a sensitive item. There is a military spec for magazines as well. Some meet this standard and others do not.

Are you stating that the manufacturer of the magazine bodies for DSG does not meet the MIL standard? My point was that if you have the capability to correctly manufacture the mag body, everything else is just assembly, not rocket science.



DSG meets this standard, and that my friend is not merely subjective judgment and opinion. It is no secret that I am generally biased towards DSG. The owner is a good friend of mine and the FDE mag can be considered my baby. I have first hand knowledge and experience with the manufacturing and quality control steps and that is what I base DSG's "perceived quality".

I appreciate your candor regarding your interest in, and affiliation with, DSG. Too many times folks debate a point while hiding obvious bias (whether relevant or not) based on nothing more than subjective reasoning. Just because you have a personal bias does not automatically disqualify your opinion. It's the hiding of that partiality that becomes suspect.



The biggest short coming, in my opinion, in the "tier" system is that is is based on mil-spec. Contrary to popular belief there is a real quality better than mil-spec and of course there is less than mil-spec. The "tier" system covers the standard and below but does not address above standard. Now THAT is faulty.


I guess this is again where we disagree on the "tier" system. It is not so much about quality per se, it is about applying a defined standard. There are many manufacturers that make great products, but to what standard? The answer is, to their own. In this case the market decides their merits and quality but this QC measure is purely subjective, takes time, and is not suitable for mass military procurement. I am not aware of any COTS AR manufacturer that subjects their product to the complete military specification including performance and QI protocol. It's far too expensive with little financial return in the commercial market place. That being said, I am quite capable of assembling a quality AR with great parts from various vendors that is reliable, accurate, and cosmetically nice. But my parts gun is not built to a defined standard by the thousands, with components and final product sampled, tested, and inspected according to a protocol other than my own. On this point, based on your earlier post, I think we agree.



If you main argument against applying the "tier" system to magazines or any other piece of equipment is based on the presence of government inspectors then admittedly you win. However, having on-site government inspectors may be the bee’s knees for the gamers but it is not impressive to the guys that pull triggers for a living.

It's the entire QI protocol including inspection and lot sampling along with specific standards testing. Again, this is not subjective and is done specifically to insure that those relying on these weapons will receive a standards built, tested, functional product. The whole reason for third party inspection is to prevent manufacturing errors/short cuts. I have no idea how you can qualify the statement that such a process impresses gamers but not professionals? How can third party inspection, in addition to the manufacturers own, ever be a bad thing for the end user? You even mentioned DSG uses third party inspection to great effect. Are you trying to make the point that Government inspectors are not adequate or qualified to meet the needs of the specification in Colt's and FN's contract?

I have no issue with DSG or their products. I wish them great success, and based on your post, I'm sure they put together an excellent product. I'd be inclined to purchase mags from them before I'd buy another HK magazine (I'm more of an old Adventure Line, new CS spring, Magpul follower kind of guy). It was the tier comparison that I found fault with. I guess I'm just over the whole "my tier 3 rifle is better than your Oly tier 4 crap" debate.

Best of luck.

davemcdonald
01-12-07, 22:56
I am completely impressed with your ability to make quotes on your internet discussions. You should be an administator or at least one of the moderators.

In short:

No, I did not apply the "tier" system. I used "if". That makes it a question. However, If a "tier" system is used to classify AR's then I don't see why a similar system cannot be used for mags. Simple as that. I did not compare AR's to mags nor apples to oranges My statement was along the lines that a system to classify apples could be used to classify oranges.


Quote:
Originally Posted by davemcdonald
While a weapon is a durable item, a magazine is easily replaced and not considered a sensitive item. There is a military spec for magazines as well. Some meet this standard and others do not.


Are you stating that the manufacturer of the magazine bodies for DSG does not meet the MIL standard? My point was that if you have the capability to correctly manufacture the mag body, everything else is just assembly, not rocket science.


No I am stating that not all magazines meet Mil-spec.

I appreciate your candor regarding your interest in, and affiliation with, DSG. Too many times folks debate a point while hiding obvious bias (whether relevant or not) based on nothing more than subjective reasoning. Just because you have a personal bias does not automatically disqualify your opinion. It's the hiding of that partiality that becomes suspect.


There are a few here that have even met me in person. I am very open about my backgraound and where I stand. Call it a personality trait. How about you? What is your background?....Experience?


Are you trying to make the point that Government inspectors are not adequate or qualified to meet the needs of the specification in Colt's and FN's contract?

No, My point is that, in my opinion, the gov inspectors are likely to only catch the biggest of problems . They are there more for the threat than actual quality control. It is good for advertisement but I doubt there is much that gets by Colt's and FN's QC that is picked off by the G.

However, having on-site government inspectors may be the bee’s knees for the gamers but it is not impressive to the guys that pull triggers for a living.

I have no idea how you can qualify the statement that such a process impresses gamers but not professionals?

I based it on my experience. I AM a professional and I know and have talked to many others that did not know nor could care less that Colt has a government inspector onsite. All that matters is that the product works.


Thanks for the discussion. I have enjoyed it. :cool:

Here is a pic of the latest version of the DSG FDE mag. The color is not a perfect match to Mil FDE but they are still pretty cool.
http://thumb8.webshots.net/t/57/657/5/25/72/2437525720040656988OGjeHX_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2437525720040656988OGjeHX)

Austin_Nichols
01-14-07, 22:05
I am completely impressed with your ability to make quotes on your internet discussions. You should be an administator or at least one of the moderators.
Ah, then there are those easily impressed....

And thus your infatuation with DSG magazines, explained. :D



No, I did not apply the "tier" system. I used "if". That makes it a question. However, If a "tier" system is used to classify AR's then I don't see why a similar system cannot be used for mags. Simple as that. I did not compare AR's to mags nor apples to oranges My statement was along the lines that a system to classify apples could be used to classify oranges.
I explained why.



No I am stating that not all magazines meet Mil-spec.
I am not aware of any domestically manufactured aluminum bodied magazines that do not meet mil-spec. I'm sure you are correct but which ones?



Are you trying to make the point that Government inspectors are not adequate or qualified to meet the needs of the specification in Colt's and FN's contract?


No, My point is that, in my opinion, the gov inspectors are likely to only catch the biggest of problems . They are there more for the threat than actual quality control. It is good for advertisement but I doubt there is much that gets by Colt's and FN's QC that is picked off by the G.
Both Colt and FN have very sophisticated QI protocols in place as mandated by the specification, so I agree, most problems are caught in house. But if the Government inspectors catch any problem then that's one less potential failure. And if they catch big ones, then all the better. It's usually not necessary to advertise your product to a customer that has already awarded you a contract for that product.



However, having on-site government inspectors may be the bee’s knees for the gamers but it is not impressive to the guys that pull triggers for a living.

I have no idea how you can qualify the statement that such a process impresses gamers but not professionals?

I based it on my experience. I AM a professional and I know and have talked to many others that did not know nor could care less that Colt has a government inspector onsite. All that matters is that the product works.
Indeed, but it is the process that consistently produces products that work. Not all professionals are ignorant of how their tools are manufactured; it appears our experience differs here. Third party inspection is nothing but good for the end user.



Thanks for the discussion. I have enjoyed it. :cool:
I have too, though this is my last post on the subject. We've steered away from magazines to a manufacturing discussion, that while interesting, is definitely off topic. Besides, these quotes are killin' me ;) .Thanks in advance for your reply.


eta: I forgot to say thanks for the DSG pic. I know it's a bit early but what's your initial opinion of Magpul's PMAG?

davemcdonald
01-15-07, 00:31
I think the the PMAG is going to be great and possibly shake up the industry. I think Rich is a perfectionist that will not accept anything less. If any issues turn up then I am sure that MP will adjust. I look forward to putting some through the paces. We should continue this conversation after trying the PMAG.

Dave

Bushytale
01-16-07, 21:41
Yes there was and may still be a US manufactured aluminum bodied AR 223 30 rd. magazine made by USA (the company) that was not even close to mil-spec.

:) Billy

Dave L.
01-23-07, 14:45
Any word on those C-Products SS Straight 20's?

musashi666
02-07-07, 19:45
I spoke with LJ at CProducts yesterday about those 20 round SS mags and he said "look for them in about 2 weeks."

Razoreye
03-05-07, 16:23
I hate black, except on hot chicks. Black has no business on a gun.

This has to do with what, exactly?

Austin_Nichols
03-05-07, 19:37
This has to do with what, exactly?

NVD and IR illuminators.

K.L. Davis
03-12-07, 10:05
NVD and IR illuminators.

Actually black fell out of favor years before NODs were common place... tests within the DOD showed it to be a poor choice under any condition.

K.L. Davis
03-12-07, 14:04
One thing to keep in mind... The NATO Standardization Agreement (STANAG 4179) holds that the M16 magazine well will be the NATO standard -- all magazines will fit the M16 magazine well, and all rifles will accept those magazines (for the most part).

Beyond that, different countries have different standards and ideas about what magazines are... the U.S. has had a operational stand that magazines are "disposable" -- while other countries issue troops a handful in basic and they hold on to them for a long time. Naturally, the quality of the magazine differs based on what the country believes.

There are even periods in the U.S. military past where truely disposable magazines have been tested, in at least one that I saw, the follower actually locks at the top when the magazine is empty and can not be pushed back down.

So, it is expected that you will find vast differences in quality of magazines... and even the worst of them can make MilSpec.

As for "Tier One" and all of that... these terms give me gas. When I hear Tier One, I think of security catagories assigned to foreign nations, of course you will have Tier One personalities from those nations and Tier One operations, but I guess I see equipment as either making the grade or not -- pretty much pass/fail. I have yet to see an armory that has racks marked Tier 1, 2, 3...

As stated earlier, a rifle that is made to the TDP may in fact be of "lessor" quality than other rifles that are not held to that standard... some of the more exotic, specialized weapons in the field are not made to the TDP, so with the logic of some they are not reliable? I prefer to let real life performance be the yardstick to hold up to each piece of equipment, one of the best issue weapons I ever had was made my General Motors... I have no idea what Tier they were?

Austin_Nichols
03-12-07, 20:53
As stated earlier, a rifle that is made to the TDP may in fact be of "lessor" quality than other rifles that are not held to that standard... some of the more exotic, specialized weapons in the field are not made to the TDP, so with the logic of some they are not reliable? I prefer to let real life performance be the yardstick to hold up to each piece of equipment, one of the best issue weapons I ever had was made my General Motors... I have no idea what Tier they were?

That General Motors weapon was made to a defined standard and set of specifications, not reverse engineered as a COTS weapon.

Those exotic specialized weapons not made according to the TDP are not M4s, M16A2s, or M16A4s. And so they may be fantastic, extremely reliable, and extra shiney, but to what yard stick are they objectively measured? How many thousands are in active service? What testing protocol is used to measure their long term performance? It takes time for the market to shake out the duds. Any weapon selected for military service will be held to a standard. That doesn't mean a manufacturer can't/won't produce a weapon that exceeds that standard. If the market is willing to pay, and the manufacturer can sustain that quality in the face of demand, that company will be successful. The market becomes the quality inspector.


But I'll say it again: Third party independent inspection against a defined standard is never bad for the end user.

Ken Rummer
03-13-07, 17:04
Received the April catalog from Blue Press today. They are selling New NHMTG, 30 rd mags, made in Hartford, CT for $14.95 each. I bought 5. (bluepress.com)

This mag is listed in the first tier of rankings by the folks on AR15.com

jsta5.56shooter
03-24-07, 15:52
Yup,C- products mags were the right price for me,I got my first order and looked them over,I must say(imho) its a great mag for the 9.99 per.

USMC_1983-89
04-11-07, 20:56
I, too, went with the Cproducts version. I bought 12 of the 30 round M16/AR-15 magazines, w/ ORANGE Gen. II MagPul follower, chrome silicone spring (smooth operation, corrosion resistant) with the black Mar-Lube finish in mil-spec aluminum.

I have been very happy with them so far.

CarlosDJackal
04-15-07, 10:42
Brownells mags are good.

I second the Brownell mags. I have quite a few of these and have not had a single malfunction that I can attribute to them.

The MagPul PMags looks like it holds promise. But I could not say so first hand because I have yet to get my gubby mits on one of them to try out (although I hope to soon). :D

M193 BALL
04-17-07, 12:57
I like the OLD COLT 20`s w/ metal Followers
been useing since the 80`s

Then again I like thermolds thes same as USGI

safeways1217
04-22-07, 06:10
My wife decided to get me some new mags for my RRA Tactical Elite. She ordered a five pack for $54.95.:rolleyes: Bless her heart:D They were worth every penny:rolleyes: Okay no more sarcasm. The magazines were singapore knockoffs and would not even fead properly. The folowers don't, the springs don't, and the access plate won't let you. I rectified this problem by givng them to a friend who welds steel sculptures and ordering ten HK thirty-rounders. IMO the best value for the dollars spent.

blackscot
05-03-07, 11:49
Got three of the BM 30-rounders. Doing OK so far based on a couple load-fulls through each.

GunLovinTexan
05-07-07, 02:05
I live in texas and have been using HK mags for quite sometime and mine have not rusted.....then agian im not out in the rain shooting or soaking them in mud...the Magpul P Mags look interesting though.

ffhounddog
05-10-07, 08:36
Guys,

I have been to the desert and back and I never used magpul followers or any Stainless Steel. I have 7 OKAY mags that I brought back that I used and they are still stock with green followers and SS spring. Never a Jam. my other 30 round mags are the same way except one that I got from DSG with my Rifle. My 20 rounders are from Cproducts and they all have magpuls but these have never given me a problem either. Is there something I am missing? I shoot 5K rounds a year of .223 since 2005 in 3 gun, training and such. I am in the market for at least 8 more AR 30 round mags for my 240 rounds of Hornady ammo I have. I was just going to get some from the base here who is selling Cproducts with Magpuls for $11.75 but I have read this thread and I am totally confused now.

Any recomendations from the folks here?

sencless
05-10-07, 08:45
I've never had any problems with Bushmaster mags... I get them locally for $20 a pop w/ magpul followers.

ffhounddog
05-10-07, 17:31
How are brownells mags? I can get them for $14.70 locally with chrome springs.

Scott

davemcdonald
05-14-07, 18:47
BTW
FDE PMags shipped last week. Mag Pul dealers should have started seeing them today.

Dave

ffhounddog
05-14-07, 20:31
I have 4 OD Green on Back order I want them.....Please?

WILDBILL
05-19-07, 13:12
Which one is better than the other in fuction and fit? I am thinking about buying a bunch of 30rd. US GI Mags and not sure which one is better than the other? And who has the best deal on USGI Mags?

C4IGrant
05-19-07, 13:46
Which one is better than the other in fuction and fit? I am thinking about buying a bunch of 30rd. US GI Mags and not sure which one is better than the other? And who has the best deal on USGI Mags?


PMAGS get my first vote, followed by NHMTG, followed by D&H. Remember, only the OKAY (NHMTG) mags are official USGI mags. The D&H's are not.



C4

utarch00
05-19-07, 14:50
Which one is better than the other in fuction and fit? I am thinking about buying a bunch of 30rd. US GI Mags and not sure which one is better than the other? And who has the best deal on USGI Mags?


I like the D&H better then the CProducts, but agree with Grant, PMags get the #1 vote for me.

Obiwan
05-20-07, 10:07
I got some FDE PMAGS from Denny's Guns

Free shipping on $50 orders

paradoc
05-26-07, 20:39
C Products does a great deal for military and LE users, I got my mags for like $8.50 or so each. My unit did a group buy and we got a ton of them and never had a single mag related malfunction that I can remember.

davemcdonald
05-27-07, 21:33
PMAGS get my first vote, followed by NHMTG, followed by D&H. Remember, only the OKAY (NHMTG) mags are official USGI mags. The D&H's are not.



C4

Thats almost 1/3 correct.

Okay, Center and Brownells have current contracts to produce USGI mags.

There are several others including D&H that are considered COTS. COTS are considered off the shelf replacements. It is possible to find actual USGI mags with other names on the floor plates as every so often the military renews the contract. Also some companies have changed names and changed hands.

Dave

C4IGrant
05-28-07, 10:56
Thats almost 1/3 correct.

Okay, Center and Brownells have current contracts to produce USGI mags.

There are several others including D&H that are considered COTS. COTS are considered off the shelf replacements. It is possible to find actual USGI mags with other names on the floor plates as every so often the military renews the contract. Also some companies have changed names and changed hands.

Dave

I understand that Center had the contract in the past, but no longer did (from what I was told). Brownells is the surprise because it is my understanding that the manufacturer of official USGI mags, cannot sell them to the public direct (hence why Okay sells their mags through NHMTG).


C4

davemcdonald
05-28-07, 16:07
Center is a Javits Wagner O’Day (JWOD) business and is protected or at least sheltered. They still have a contract and are quite possibly the largest manufacture of USGI magazines.

Whether a company can sell items they hold a government contract for only applies 1) under the defense priorities clause of a specific contract - which is not too common or 2) if it is based on a tech pkg. controlled by the .gov and is restricted.

It appears that Brownells may have received a contract because OKay and Center could not keep up with production. Okay may have gotten a restriction (for civilian sales) for that same reason but that is just speculation on my part.


Dave

C4IGrant
05-28-07, 19:38
Center is a Javits Wagner O’Day (JWOD) business and is protected or at least sheltered. They still have a contract and are quite possibly the largest manufacture of USGI magazines.

Whether a company can sell items they hold a government contract for only applies 1) under the defense priorities clause of a specific contract - which is not too common or 2) if it is based on a tech pkg. controlled by the .gov and is restricted.

It appears that Brownells may have received a contract because OKay and Center could not keep up with production. Okay may have gotten a restriction (for civilian sales) for that same reason but that is just speculation on my part.


Dave


Dave, I think the clear indication that Okay is bound by either rule 1 or 2 is because they formed a new company just to sell to the Civy populace and that Center mags are not available. Since Brownells mags are available to public (and once were made by CProducts) makes me think something else is going on.


C4

davemcdonald
05-28-07, 21:35
Grant
Here is some light reading

Center

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2006/02/center-industries-gets-77m-extension-for-980000-m16/m4-magazines/index.php

Brownells

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-5370569_ITM

http://www.ciras.iastate.edu/publications/CIRASNews/2006Fall.pdf

Okay

https://aais.ria.army.mil/aais/Award_web_03/DAAE2003C0009/000000.pdf

C4IGrant
05-29-07, 09:05
Grant
Here is some light reading

Center

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2006/02/center-industries-gets-77m-extension-for-980000-m16/m4-magazines/index.php

Brownells

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-5370569_ITM

http://www.ciras.iastate.edu/publications/CIRASNews/2006Fall.pdf

Okay

https://aais.ria.army.mil/aais/Award_web_03/DAAE2003C0009/000000.pdf


Thanks!


C4

Bushytale
05-30-07, 03:07
thanks for those links Dave. that info clears up the rumors of who is making Brownell's mags and props up the info about Okay making Colt magazines that we already knew.

;) Billy

C4IGrant
05-30-07, 10:47
I was thinking some more about why Brownells can sell direct to the public and the other two cannot. It appears that their contract was only for a year and it is now most likely over. This would most likely explain why they can now sell direct while the other two cannot.




C4

Bushytale
05-31-07, 01:02
That would make sense. Brownell's did not have the 20 rd. straight mags for sale until recently as well.

Billy

1st Team Vet
06-05-07, 12:00
I just got some of the new P-Mags and for the price I'd say they are going to give the H&K's a run for their money. I was with the 101 back in the early 90's and tried out some Thermold mags that were junk. These P-Mags are in a whole different class. At around $15 they are worth trying out....

WILDBILL
06-08-07, 01:41
Sorry, for a Dumb question,but I am not clear who makes Brownells 30rd. mags now?

C4IGrant
06-08-07, 07:46
Sorry, for a Dumb question,but I am not clear who makes Brownells 30rd. mags now?


They make them in house. It was rumored that CPRoducts made them initially.



C4

Jay Cunningham
06-12-07, 12:36
I ran 5 of the block 2 PMAGS through a carbine class with approx 700 rounds fired and it was pure bliss. All mags were loaded with a full 30 rounds and tac reloads were just dandy.

mmike87
06-12-07, 22:54
I ran 5 of the block 2 PMAGS through a carbine class with approx 700 rounds fired and it was pure bliss. All mags were loaded with a full 30 rounds and tac reloads were just dandy.

I ran about 600 through four P-Mags last weekend during a class. Perfect feeding, last shot hold open, etc. However, one of the four will NOT seat on a closed bolt - nor will the cover install with 30 rounds loaded. I placed the mag on a table and tried to press the cover on - no dice. I pressed HARD and I made sure there were exactly 30 in there (if it's even possible to overload them.)

I am sticking with 28 rounds loaded in everything except my HK mags - they are a little longer and easily take 30 every time. The P-Mag with the issue may loosen up with time, but for reliability sake I'll go 28 rounds for now.

Unloading a P-Mag by hand is VERY easy and smooth, BTW. Not the PITA manyof the metal mags are.

GaryXD
06-17-07, 18:49
thanks for those links Dave. that info clears up the rumors of who is making Brownell's mags and props up the info about Okay making Colt magazines that we already knew.

;) Billy

It also confirms what Larry of CProducts said about Center mags being made by blind people.

Pat_Rogers
06-17-07, 18:55
CProducts initially made the Brownell's mags. Brownell was not happy with the result. Brownell's now make their magazines in house.
They are still making magazines for the military.
Look for an upcoming SWAT story....

Steve
06-17-07, 19:44
had 6 shooters in class the past 2 days.... gearing up for more training in the next few weeks, of the 12 cp mags 8 were junk fail to seat..... with 28 rounds in 3 diffrent guns, failed to lock open fail ftf. gave the shooters pmags and HK and DH, all problems cleared right up.

these are not recreational shooters either.

its bad enough trying to train and fight without having to think about your gear......

striped1
06-17-07, 20:04
[QUOTE=Steve;58529]had 6 shooters in class the past 2 days.... gearing up for more training in the next few weeks, of the 12 cp mags 8 were junk fail to seat..... with 28 rounds in 3 diffrent guns, failed to lock open fail ftf. gave the shooters pmags and HK and DH, all problems cleared right up.
QUOTE]


That is too bad. I have 12 of CP products SS mags that run great and another 20 aluminum that have been function tested but not run yet. I had plans of sending Larry and CP products a check for a bunch more of the SS but it seems that the recent quality issues have not been resolved.

Steve
06-17-07, 20:18
Depends, On what you mean by run great.... each mag before it goes in service is run over 200 rounds flawless before i think of trusting it......as a life saving device.....the group of shooters i train with have had many issues with Larrys mags......... they have gone either to trash or been used as malfunction training mags.......(they wont pay to ship back a defective a mag.)

cheap or matter of principle there call.... I stick to DH pmags and Hk.

Bushytale
06-18-07, 03:41
I got 24 CP st st mags with CS springs late last year after they started to get a lot of good press. I had to debur the interior surface of some of the spot welds to get them to work smoothly and clean the rust off the springs. Originally they came with Magpul followers which it was later determined were not the best fit due to the differences in the interior dimensions of the mags compared to aluminum which the Magpuls were designed for. CP sent me out 24 of their special followers at no charge. I replaced the followers and all has gone well since. Due to the more recent problems CP is having with QC my next mag purchase will sadly not be from them. :o

Billy

USMC_1983-89
06-27-07, 08:10
I've been really happy with my CProducts mags. I got 12 aluminum ones with the black marlube finish, Magpul 2nd generation follower and chrome silicon springs for $12.20 a pop from Widener's and thy've worked like a champ.

Thumbs up and I'll purchase more when needed.

dialM4murder
06-29-07, 02:09
NHMTG ...no problems with those.

TheDutchman
06-29-07, 10:04
I returned to the vendor 28 unopened CProduct mags that that I purchased them from after a stripper spoon would not fit. Also I have had 100% failure rate on 5 SS mags that I purchased with out of spec mag bodies, metal left over from spot welding, and fake Magpul followers. I will likely keep those already in use, but will now buy Pmags or another manufacturer of mags.

Bison
07-02-07, 13:43
NHMTG ...no problems with those.

+1. Both the straight 20 rounders and the 30 rounders.

CM-4
07-02-07, 14:27
This mag issue confuses me. I read one post where brand X is the military supplier, and this particular company is good etc, etc, etc. Now I read that only one or two companies supply the military. What is a good mag to buy beside HK? I don't like HK's crappy, arogant attitude. And what about Parson's, Adventure Line, Sanchez, etc? Are they no longer a military supplier, or did they get bought out and are now under different name? I want to purchase some more mags but am now confused as to which I should buy.:confused:

hatt
07-02-07, 17:02
This mag issue confuses me. I read one post where brand X is the military supplier, and this particular company is good etc, etc, etc. Now I read that only one or two companies supply the military. What is a good mag to buy beside HK? I don't like HK's crappy, arogant attitude. And what about Parson's, Adventure Line, Sanchez, etc? Are they no longer a military supplier, or did they get bought out and are now under different name? I want to purchase some more mags but am now confused as to which I should buy.:confused:


The best deal I've seen going is the teflon D&H which are available from several sources for $11-$13.

R Moran
07-02-07, 19:09
NHMTG ...no problems with those.


Just bought 100 of them from Ken Elmore, with his red spring. Should be here sometime today.

Bob

Moose
07-02-07, 19:16
NHMTG ...no problems with those.

Agreed, plus HK and Colt mags - zero issues with all. Looking forward to trying the P-Mags soon.

billt
07-18-07, 15:58
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/3390/stoner30roundmagscn7.th.jpg (http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stoner30roundmagscn7.jpg)

These are 20 C-Products mags with the grey, anti tilt follower 30 rounders I bought from Midway for $9.95 each. They run well, and I will buy more the next time they put them on sale. I like the seperate packaging. They don't arrive all scratched up. Bill T.

toddackerman
07-25-07, 19:31
USGI Mags don't have an NSN number on them.

D&H Mags are made on the tooling of the original USGI Contract Labelle mags. because they bought the tooling.

It doesn't get any better except the teflon mags that DSG arms and other retailers sell that are manufactured to the USGI spec.

IMHO, the C Products Mags still have some "kinks" in their process and their reliability is questionable. I know there are some that swear by the C Products Mags, but there are an awful lot who have had problems. Very few have had issues with the USGI spec. mags.

Tack

ST911
07-25-07, 20:19
Just bought 100 of them from Ken Elmore, with his red spring. Should be here sometime today.

Bob

Good stuff. Some of my red springs have been through several mag bodies, with no end of service life in sight.

MX5
07-25-07, 21:00
I've found the original Colt 20s tend to be brittle & can crack/break when dropped. Most good quality mags will work very well if inspected & maintained properly. Overall, for the money, I think C-Products are the best buy in a metal mag after putting dozens of their 20s & 30s to hard use. But, don't fall in love with any of them!

ST911
07-26-07, 09:33
I've found the original Colt 20s tend to be brittle & can crack/break when dropped. Most good quality mags will work very well if inspected & maintained properly. Overall, for the money, I think C-Products are the best buy in a metal mag after putting dozens of their 20s & 30s to hard use. But, don't fall in love with any of them!

Not sure about brittle?

I have found the lips of the 20s to be much more prone to damage when dropped, due to the lack of support at the rear.

txgolfer45
07-29-07, 20:21
Well, I found out that the Magpul PMAGs don't work with my S&W M&P15A. The PMAG doesn't seat in the magwell at all. The seller took it back and gave me a Brownell in it's place. I'm sticking with NHMTG, D&H or Brownell. Those seem to work fine.

Lawdog-1
08-10-07, 20:18
I would like to know who makes DoubleStar 30rd. Mags? Are they any good? What other brand name mags would you compair them to?

Gunmetal
08-10-07, 21:34
Well, I found out that the Magpul PMAGs don't work with my S&W M&P15A. The PMAG doesn't seat in the magwell at all. The seller took it back and gave me a Brownell in it's place. I'm sticking with NHMTG, D&H or Brownell. Those seem to work fine.

TXGolfer,

will an empty PMAG seat in the gun with the bolt locked back? Or even then will it still not?

Any ideas why?

dialM4murder
08-12-07, 00:25
What r these "red springs" you speak of?

dialM4murder
08-12-07, 00:27
By the way, are the magpul followers really that much better than the green followers in the NHMTG mags?

C4IGrant
08-12-07, 12:20
What r these "red springs" you speak of?


Colt uses a high grade of spring that are rust colored.


C4

C4IGrant
08-12-07, 12:21
By the way, are the magpul followers really that much better than the green followers in the NHMTG mags?


Yes.



C4

ST911
08-12-07, 14:32
What r these "red springs" you speak of?

The "Extreme Duty" magazine spring available from Ken Elmore at Specialized Armament. Excellent spring.

GaryXD
08-12-07, 21:34
I would like to know who makes DoubleStar 30rd. Mags? Are they any good? What other brand name mags would you compair them to?

In the last year the mags I have bought from them have been made by two different vendors.
The mags with the green followers were made by D&H Industries. These have the date code and CAGE code 04TQ4 stamped on the body.
The mags with the Magpul followers were made by C Products LLC. The bodies on these are unmarked.
Both have worked fine.

R Moran
08-12-07, 23:07
The "Extreme Duty" magazine spring available from Ken Elmore at Specialized Armament. Excellent spring.

Those are the ones I'm talking about. Ken feels his spring combined with a Magpul follower and GI body(he call them by the cage code) is about bullet proof, and thats what I run.

He also feels the Green folloer combined with the Red Spring is alos agood combo, thats not given him problems. I have a case like that, that likely will not see use for awhile.

Bob

ST911
08-13-07, 10:18
Those are the ones I'm talking about. Ken feels his spring combined with a Magpul follower and GI body(he call them by the cage code) is about bullet proof, and thats what I run.

He also feels the Green folloer combined with the Red Spring is alos agood combo, thats not given him problems. I have a case like that, that likely will not see use for awhile.

Bob

I'd agree with that.

During his last Colt AC here, Ken passed out bunches of the red springs, and handfuls of his XP green extractor spring. Both are excellent.

I'd wondered about using the red spring in some of the long life mags, like the CP SS and P-Mag, but haven't done any deliberate experimentation. Anyone else?

Keith E.
08-27-07, 14:20
Never spent an hour reading one thread until today. Thanks to all that contributed.

Keith

toddackerman
08-27-07, 15:35
I'm a die hard USGI with Magpul follower user. I'm also a die hard Magpul supporter.

I ordered one PMAG last week and can't wait to try it, but there are concerns that I have, mainly the spreading of the feed lips.

Thermold overcame this problem and I have 5 that are always loaded for range use that NEVER fail. I think they "Skinned the cat" by putting metal supports in the feed lip area. I would hope that Magpul figures out the same solution because IMHO, there should ne no need for a cap to go on top of the lips to keep them from spreading. Just one more piece to go FUBAR.

Why is this such an issue, and why doesn't magpul figure it out?

DrDrake
08-28-07, 01:05
Thanks you for the kind words. As far as the PMAG feed lips spreading; I've had a PMAG loaded to 30, no snap cover, sitting on my desk for the last eight months. I've checked it several times for spreading by a quick down load of the rounds and a caliper check. No spreading at all. I'd say they have proven zero creeping under constant load for around eight months.

It's been a hellava hump to get over the hump of the "plastic mag" debate or lack of one. In the past they all were/are sub par at best. As time goes on I think the PMAG is going to be very successful and will change minds of some nay sayers. Don't go out throwing away you USGI's though. There are still plenty of funtioning USGI's out there and we like to recycle here in Boulder so use them till they don't work!..........then buy a PMAG to replace.

KevinB
08-28-07, 01:22
I have 16 PMags - I've had them for a bit sitting loaded 24/7 in the Iraqi heat.
No issues with spreading so far - Rich arranged for me to get the new upgrade bodies (even when I told him that I could not ship the old ones back to him - APO shipping rules) and even when I told him I did not feel I needed them - Magpul just wants to ensure they have the best product out there.


As a former Canadian soldier issued Thermold mags - I have the best reason not to trust Polymer mags (Thermold IMHO NEVER solved the problem) and yet while I retired my G19 in favour of my 1911, and run a M4A1 instead of our issued Sig552 (which has polymer mags too) - I have been extremly pleased with the PMag

Go see the pics I put up about running one over (and back again) with a Armored Suburban. - that mag still runs 4 months after it was run over, and spine cracked a bit -- left loaded as well BTW.

toddackerman
08-28-07, 11:49
I have 16 PMags - I've had them for a bit sitting loaded 24/7 in the Iraqi heat.
No issues with spreading so far - Rich arranged for me to get the new upgrade bodies (even when I told him that I could not ship the old ones back to him - APO shipping rules) and even when I told him I did not feel I needed them - Magpul just wants to ensure they have the best product out there.


As a former Canadian soldier issued Thermold mags - I have the best reason not to trust Polymer mags (Thermold IMHO NEVER solved the problem) and yet while I retired my G19 in favour of my 1911, and run a M4A1 instead of our issued Sig552 (which has polymer mags too) - I have been extremly pleased with the PMag

Go see the pics I put up about running one over (and back again) with a Armored Suburban. - that mag still runs 4 months after it was run over, and spine cracked a bit -- left loaded as well BTW.

Tha canadian Thermolds always had isues because they weren't reinforced in the lip area.

My 5 US made Thermolds as I had stated are loaded 24/7 and have been for 7 years with no lip spreading.

If there isn't an issue with the PMAG lips, why do we need amother piece of plastic to worryabout (the Mag cap). Looking forward to getting mine in the mail anyday to test it out.

KevinB
08-28-07, 12:52
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/IMG_3266.jpg

I used the Black Floor plate to indicate which mags are M995 AP.

I think Magpul offered the top plate as not just a brace - but also a dust cover for long term storage.

toddackerman
08-28-07, 13:22
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/IMG_3266.jpg

I used the Black Floor plate to indicate which mags are M995 AP.

I think Magpul offered the top plate as not just a brace - but also a dust cover for long term storage.

What chest rig is that?

toddackerman
08-28-07, 13:23
Where can you find the Ken Elmore red springs?

KevinB
08-28-07, 13:33
Its not a chest rig - its a Kifaru E&E, I run a CIRAS Martitime, the E&E has got essentials...

The Magpul PMags I have all have the red spring.

m.adams
08-28-07, 13:38
Where can you find the Ken Elmore red springs?

http://www.specializedarmament.com/

Try a search for "RED" (http://www.specializedarmament.com/index.php?p=catalog&mode=search&search_in=name&search_str=Red&x=56&y=8)

SIMPLYDYNAMIC
09-02-07, 01:53
Quick check in on the P-MAG:

I have been T&Eing for Magpul and I have 20 P-mags (mix of Black and Smoke) and I have put over 30,000 rds through the 20 mags now through as many different weapon systems as I could and I have had only 4 problems (3 busted lugs on the bolt and the other the gas rings went out) So not one problems with the mags since the beginning of testing. One mag I have put over 6000 rds through now. Maybe its just my luck but my team hasent had any reported problems of wear, malfunctions, or spreading (I also have been doing caliper checks)

I did have 2 REV-1 Pmags go down a while back but I did a combat dive in the salt water with them loaded with 30rds and didnt get a chance to fire them for 2 weeks later, (just neglect) the springs coroaded and only about the last 15rds would feed. I cleaned them, put new springs in and were new again.

You wont find me or anyone around me in team using anything else.

Hawkeye
09-02-07, 09:01
As SD has pointed out, PMags suck. Please send all you have to me for disposal. I will pay shipping for you.

Indy5000
06-23-08, 16:29
This is an awesome thread and I have learned a great deal as I have on other threads here. My brother and I are starting out from scratch in the AR arena and based on research here, we purchased two ADS Middies from Grant. The question for this thread is: if you were starting out from scratch like we are...what Mags would you start stocking up on?

I know everyone has their own personal collection/likes/dislikes but if you were starting over what would you do? For us it isn't so much the money but spending the money right the first time.

Thanks!!!

mat10x
06-23-08, 16:48
just looked at the C Products site. whats the difference between the "green", "orange' and "grey" followers. what's the "anti-tilt" business? all three come in either CS or SS, which is better?

thx.

toddackerman
06-23-08, 17:02
This is an awesome thread and I have learned a great deal as I have on other threads here. My brother and I are starting out from scratch in the AR arena and based on research here, we purchased two ADS Middies from Grant. The question for this thread is: if you were starting out from scratch like we are...what Mags would you start stocking up on?

I know everyone has their own personal collection/likes/dislikes but if you were starting over what would you do? For us it isn't so much the money but spending the money right the first time.

Thanks!!!

Most might say PMAG's, but I don't have enough expereience or rounds through them like I do my USGI Mags. My choice is USGI Mags from D&H or the other USGI contractors. That being said, the one PMAG I do have has 3,000 fail free rounds.

rifleshooter
06-23-08, 17:08
just looked at the C Products site. whats the difference between the "green", "orange' and "grey" followers. what's the "anti-tilt" business? all three come in either CS or SS, which is better?

thx.

I am not sure from looking at C-Products Web. site if they are offering Stainless steel springs or chrome silicon springs in their Mags.

I do know Brownell's offers the chrome silicon springs. But their Mags are $20 in Stainless or chrome silicon springs.

Their Carbon steel spring Mags are $18

All my Brownell's and C-Products Mags have the green followers and I have had no problems.:)

If you do ever have a problem with any C-Products Mag. they quickly with no hassle will replace the Mag.:)

Same with Brownell's never a hassle just quick replacements if ever needed on all their products.:)

Iraqgunz
06-23-08, 17:25
In all honesty I would stock up on the Pmags. They are very well made and seem to take a beating. For the price (a few dollars more than aluminum) you are getting a good mag. I don't think you can go wrong.

rifleshooter
06-23-08, 17:39
In all honesty I would stock up on the Pmags. They are very well made and seem to take a beating. For the price (a few dollars more than aluminum) you are getting a good mag. I don't think you can go wrong.

I have never had any problems with my many P-Mags even the early ones that Magpul recalled never failed me. I say they are quality and a good Mag. choice. Hey thousands maybe now it's millions of them have been bought that should say something about Magpuls P-Mag quality.

I don't work for Magpul or sell Magpul products. Just a small time user.:)

45r
06-23-08, 20:14
In all honesty I would stock up on the Pmags. They are very well made and seem to take a beating. For the price (a few dollars more than aluminum) you are getting a good mag. I don't think you can go wrong.

Too bad I don't life in a free state. I had a chance to handle one of the PMags and I'd take them over the HK steel or the USGI aluminum magazines any day of the week. They are built TOUGH!!!

Now if only they made 10 round magazines.......:o

Gunmetal
06-23-08, 21:57
just looked at the C Products site. whats the difference between the "green", "orange' and "grey" followers. what's the "anti-tilt" business? all three come in either CS or SS, which is better?

There are others here who can probably answer better but since I haven't seen anyone address your questions directly yet, here is my understanding... if I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll be corrected. :D

"Green" is the USGI follower, which does prevent tilting of the top round in one direction but not both directions. i.e., it will prevent a depression of the cartridge base, but not a nosedive-type tilt. That is off the top of my head but it's either that way, or the reverse.

The MagPul orange/grey followers will prevent tilting in either direction and are highly recommended. AFAIK there is no diff. between the orange/grey other than the color. Orange may make it easier for you to see (thru the ejection port) that you are at lockback or that you just whipped out an empty mag, but that presumes you have sufficient light to rely on visual indicators. I have no idea what other reasons someone might prefer one over the other (any comments?).

Springs: AFAIK the GI springs are SS, which are more resistant to corrosion but do not last as long (in terms of spring fatigue) as chrome silicon springs.

FWIW, I would steer clear of the C-Products mags when you can get different, better mags for roughly the same price (and yes, I have personally had issues with CP mags). c.f. D&H, DSG, PMags, NHMTG.

Jack_Stroker
11-24-08, 15:55
After seeing the video of the guy driving his Chevy truck over a PMag I decided to give them a try. Not only do they feed more reliably in all my AR-15's but the seat properly fully loaded. My H&K and USGI mags did not always do that. I've put a few hundreds rounds through mine so far and I've even dropped a couple by mistake. So far not a single malfunction using them in 3 different AR-15's. Right now they are my magazine of choice. For the price, they just can't be beat.

I think they are the best magazine for the AR-15 on the market today.

AirmanAtwood
11-25-08, 19:44
IMO: HK mags are undeniably the "Best" mags available - Hands down.

Not everybody has a "Need" for this good of a mag though and they are expensive (Even at $30-$35 each). But, in my opinion they are worth $35 each just for the piece of mind.

I know we have all read the negative "Reviews" (And I use this term loosely) on "other" forums but I would not give two cents for their opinion. Anybody who states they are less durable than a standard GI mag has absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Hell, I seriously question if they have even been within ten miles of an actual HK mag. It's nothing but waste of bandwidth BS.

I'm not saying GI mags are worthless by any means. Hell, I own plenty that work like a champ.

do you imply that they are better than Pmags?

gyp_c2
11-25-08, 21:55
If there isn't an issue with the PMAG lips, why do we need amother piece of plastic to worryabout (the Mag cap). Looking forward to getting mine in the mail anyday to test it out.
...dust covers...
I had three loaded from the first LAV class in September '07...I used them in the LAV '08 class a year later and they worked perfectly...sand and all...
Thanks Magpul-Dudes...!
Truly the little covers are nice to keep the trash out...leaving 30 loaded for a year riding in a black bag in the Jeep didn't faze them...oh yeah, Black Mags in 'd Black Bag...Their stuff is great and they are real gun guys too...
Although... Dr Drake frequently disappears on the line due to heavy MultiCam...http://emoticons4u.com/smoking/rauch06.gif

gyp_c2...aka..."slim"

Dr. Quickdraw Mcgraw
11-26-08, 06:46
do you imply that they are better than Pmags?

i believe you will find that that was written well before pmags were commonplace.

decodeddiesel
11-26-08, 14:36
Good grief, does anyone bother to look at the flipping date on a thread before they post to it?!?!?!?!

Most of the data here is old and outdated.

AirmanAtwood
11-27-08, 17:24
i believe you will find that that was written well before pmags were commonplace.

my mistake, I didn't look at the post date.

JeffWard
01-27-10, 17:08
I guess the P-Mag ended this debate over a year ago...

LOL

Jeff

uwe1
05-25-10, 23:34
Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but I wanted to ask for clarification from more experienced members about something I read in this thread regarding PMAGs. Specifically where one of the attendees (G_M) reports Kyle Defoor's opinion on them.

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=52274


One More Thing...
There was one thing that Kyle and Brian had mentioned during a lecture about magazines. They talked about their opinion of Pmags and Kyle even said "The Tan ones are the worst". I was supprised at what they said but kept it in mind.

There was then a picture attached with a crack in the feedlips. Is there some inherent problem with PMAGs that I'm not aware of?

Moose-Knuckle
05-26-10, 08:15
This thread was amuzing...:D

uwe1
05-26-10, 16:24
This thread was amuzing...:D

No doubt! It's interesting to see how PMAGs settled the question of "go to" mags. They are all I own except for 2 aluminum ones. The post about Defoor's opinion on them got me curious as to what (if any) weakness they might have.

RogerinTPA
05-26-10, 18:51
Good grief, does anyone bother to look at the flipping date on a thread before they post to it?!?!?!?!

Most of the data here is old and outdated.

Worth repeating annually. Amazing...this thread hasn't been locked with this outdated info.

Dwane Anderson
10-31-10, 17:39
This is my first post here, and I would like to resurrect this thread. My apologies if you would rather I didn't. Anyway, the US Army is now issuing a new mag with a tan follower and heavier spring. Has anyone here had any experience with these? If so, what do you think of them?

m1a_scoutguy
10-31-10, 19:45
I think steel AR mags in general are better than GI aluminum..with the c products stainless steel they wont rust and are less maintenance.I use the brit steel and Singapore Grey steel mags that mimick US GI..I love em but I have to take care of em the way I do my M14,and AK mags.I find they do take more abuse than aluminum and don't bulge over time but I agree Ive dropped a few and they can dent the body and feed lips just like an aluminum mag but still are more durable.

Thats me also,,I like the Steel mags myself,,especially the Old Brit & Taiwanese mags,,,they are pretty tough ! I like the steel cuz they drop free better I feel,(not that I have trouble with Alum) I'm not worried about weight,,for the stuff I do,,its mostly 4/5 Carbine shoots a Summer,,,,train a bunch during the year and just general range work,,so they meet my needs pretty well !!! Plus I can find the Older mags for a pretty decent price most of the time,,(I need Pre-Ban Stuff) I have me share of Okay,,La belle,Colt,,etc all Alum and all work well also,,I guess its boils down to buy what ya want,,what ya can afford and go from there,,,I also love buying old,,no finish left on them mags,,,I like refinishing them and adding new goodies inside & Ranger Plates,,etc,,I have a ton of mags I bought cheap and rebuilt,,kinda part of the whole experience,,,,LOL !!! This is the place to get lots off goodies for your rebuilds & good prices on New Mags for you guys in Free States !! www.44mag.com

Captains1911
10-31-10, 20:27
Thats me also,,I like the Steel mags myself,,especially the Old Brit & Taiwanese mags,,,they are pretty tough ! I like the steel cuz they drop free better I feel,(not that I have trouble with Alum) I'm not worried about weight,,for the stuff I do,,its mostly 4/5 Carbine shoots a Summer,,,,train a bunch during the year and just general range work,,so they meet my needs pretty well !!! Plus I can find the Older mags for a pretty decent price most of the time,,(I need Pre-Ban Stuff) I have me share of Okay,,La belle,Colt,,etc all Alum and all work well also,,I guess its boils down to buy what ya want,,what ya can afford and go from there,,,I also love buying old,,no finish left on them mags,,,I like refinishing them and adding new goodies inside & Ranger Plates,,etc,,I have a ton of mags I bought cheap and rebuilt,,kinda part of the whole experience,,,,LOL !!! This is the place to get lots off goodies for your rebuilds & good prices on New Mags for you guys in Free States !! www.44mag.com

Seriously??? Why do people keep quoting posts from over 4 years ago? This thread needs to be locked or else it will continue to mislead those who don't know how to read dates.

m1a_scoutguy
10-31-10, 20:40
Seriously??? Why do people keep quoting posts from over 4 years ago? This thread needs to be locked or else it will continue to mislead those who don't know how to read dates.

Oh darn,,,sorry about that Chief !!;) I just looked at the most recent posts & it looked like a decent question so I added my 2 cents,,I quess i should of kept my thought to myself. :)

Captains1911
10-31-10, 20:44
Oh darn,,,sorry about that Chief !!;) I just looked at the most recent posts & it looked like a decent question so I added my 2 cents,,I quess i should of kept my thought to myself. :)

It's just that the majority of this thread existed prior to pmags becoming the overwhelming mag of choice, and posting dated information will surely confuse and mislead some. Hell, it confused the shit out of me the first time I saw it until I realized how old it was, and I would never even had seen it if it hadn't been resurrected by somebody else quoting ancient info. That's all, I'm done.

m1a_scoutguy
10-31-10, 20:56
It's just that the majority of this thread existed prior to pmags becoming the overwhelming mag of choice, and posting dated information will surely confuse and mislead some. Hell, it confused the shit out of me the first time I saw it until I realized how old it was, and I would never even had seen it if it hadn't been resurrected by somebody else quoting ancient info. That's all, I'm done.

No problem Man,,,,no Harm no foul !! I hear ya on the early date,,I just didn't look back,,:o I have a bunch of LEO buddies & they use alot of PMAGS,,I'm not LEO,,so I have to dig up "other" choices thats why I through some stuff at it. :)

TheBelly
03-07-11, 23:24
Anyway, the US Army is now issuing a new mag with a tan follower and heavier spring. Has anyone here had any experience with these? If so, what do you think of them?

I haven't had any of these mags with the 'improved' follower fail me. This was after two short tours to the 'Stan.

I use them instead of PMAGs because they are inexpensive (I buy them for about $9/per on post), and they actually fall free from my DDM4. The PMAG that came with my DD doesn't fall free.

skullworks
05-08-12, 21:00
Rather than creating a whole new thread I'll revive this one. Does anyone here have any experience with IWI manufactured magazines?

Being in Sweden magazines are scarce. The best deal I've found for cage-marked magazines is a 5-pack of Brownells' green follower mags (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=21225/Product/AR-15-M16-20-30-ROUND-MAGAZINES) for $131.58 (yes, ladies and germs - that is $26.32 per magazine). Magpul PMAG 30 with maglevel, which is what I'm currently running, can be found for $38.74 (non-maglevels are $32.90). Oberland Arms G-MAG 30 (http://www.oberlandarms.com/produkte-infos-mags--de-artnr=100-OA+MAG+30+Schuss+223+Rem+Magazine+Mags.html) are $43.86 per mag in Sweden.

So, needless to say I'm looking for alternatives and having read Rob S' thread about switching back to GI mags (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=81074) I'm exploring that area too. However, once again, being in Sweden NHMFG, Okay and similar quality magazines are hard to come by. As I was searching for alternatives I found these IWI Steel Magazines (http://www.gun-parts-germany.de/product_info.php?info=p766_New---Steel-Magazin-AR15-30-Round.html) for €19.90 (approx $25.92). I found the same magazine here (http://www.waffen-centrale.de/epages/61692274.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61692274/Products/J-Mag-30-green), referred to as "J-mag" (and I have a pretty good idea what the J stands for :bad:) for €25.00 ($32.56). So my question is if the IWI mags are GTG or if I'm better off with the Brownells mags if I don't go all-out Magpul?

LOBO
12-14-15, 17:22
Are the D&H mags from BCM good to go?

wildcard600
12-14-15, 17:58
Are the D&H mags from BCM good to go?

I've never had any issues with D&H. OKAY mags are "nicer" but i've never seen any functional difference personally. i like pmags the best overall.

7.62NATO
12-14-15, 18:52
Rather than creating a whole new thread I'll revive this one. Does anyone here have any experience with IWI manufactured magazines?

Being in Sweden magazines are scarce. The best deal I've found for cage-marked magazines is a 5-pack of Brownells' green follower mags (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=21225/Product/AR-15-M16-20-30-ROUND-MAGAZINES) for $131.58 (yes, ladies and germs - that is $26.32 per magazine). Magpul PMAG 30 with maglevel, which is what I'm currently running, can be found for $38.74 (non-maglevels are $32.90). Oberland Arms G-MAG 30 (http://www.oberlandarms.com/produkte-infos-mags--de-artnr=100-OA+MAG+30+Schuss+223+Rem+Magazine+Mags.html) are $43.86 per mag in Sweden.

So, needless to say I'm looking for alternatives and having read Rob S' thread about switching back to GI mags (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=81074) I'm exploring that area too. However, once again, being in Sweden NHMFG, Okay and similar quality magazines are hard to come by. As I was searching for alternatives I found these IWI Steel Magazines (http://www.gun-parts-germany.de/product_info.php?info=p766_New---Steel-Magazin-AR15-30-Round.html) for €19.90 (approx $25.92). I found the same magazine here (http://www.waffen-centrale.de/epages/61692274.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61692274/Products/J-Mag-30-green), referred to as "J-mag" (and I have a pretty good idea what the J stands for :bad:) for €25.00 ($32.56). So my question is if the IWI mags are GTG or if I'm better off with the Brownells mags if I don't go all-out Magpul?

Does ITAR allow you to buy directly from the US?

Rotorhead84
12-14-15, 22:49
Bought a used AR recently and the guy shipped me a new BCM "battleship grey" mag with it. Really nice mag. Looking forward to trying it out. Anybody have any experience with them?

ColtSeavers
12-14-15, 23:00
Last post before today was skullworks on 05-08-12, at 18:00...

zibby43
12-14-15, 23:01
Bought a used AR recently and the guy shipped me a new BCM "battleship grey" mag with it. Really nice mag. Looking forward to trying it out. Anybody have any experience with them?

My understanding is that all BCM mags are manufactured by D&H Industries. The two most popular non-plastic magazines are the mags from Okay Industries (Mil-Spec) and the mags from D&H.

Supposedly, the edge in reliability goes to the Okay Industries mags but I've run both varieties with no issues.

Hope that helps.

ColtSeavers
12-14-15, 23:03
Here's a D&H thread that is NOT from 3 and a 1/2 years ago.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?176820-NHTG-OKAY-vs-D-amp-H-LaBelle

Tape
12-15-15, 22:26
I have 4 30rd Colts, excellent mags
https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server4300/9j9zreeu/products/32369/images/89969/Untitled_1__27979.1429806114.100.100.jpg?c=2

My favorites are the Thermold mags, not the Canadian models known as Thermo-melts but the USA made 20 and 30rds. I have 20-20rd mags and 6-30rd mags. They have a lifetime no hassle guarantee. A lot of bad you hear from them are the Canadian models. I have not had one malfunction from any of them, zero malfunctions. A Utube video of soldiers did a torture test of the top 5 or 6 mags and Thermolds came in second to Mpul because one cracked when run over by a deuce and 1/2 but it still operated without any malfunctions.

http://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.Maee03ef89fe2f4534479c84d6cbdc333o0&w=300&h=225&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0 http://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.M3d492b2a2856f8c9d572633fdd8195c0o0&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0

wildcard600
12-15-15, 22:32
Buddy had some thermolds back around 2000, all feed lips cracked or broke off. no idea if they were candian mfg or what but after seeing that i wouldnt touch them with a ten foot pole.

YMMV

Tape
12-15-15, 23:15
Buddy had some thermolds back around 2000, all feed lips cracked or broke off. no idea if they were candian mfg or what but after seeing that i wouldnt touch them with a ten foot pole.

YMMV
yeah I believe you and cannot blame you for your decision of staying away from them, so many others feel the same way. I probably would feel the same way if it happened to me. I did a lot of research before buying them and the reviews were mixed but I made sure I got the USA mags, the Canadian branch was closed in the early 2000's like '05 if I recall correctly.

waffentomas
12-17-15, 14:30
Given that this thread was started nearly 10 years ago, I'm just happy we are (presumably) talking, still, about drop free 30rd (or more) magazines, and not some Obama/Clinton/Sanders/Schumer approved 5 rounder.

Personally, I prefer the steel, black, FNH magazines. I wish my Colt M4 took the 50rd Galil mags I have...oh well.

_Stormin_
12-17-15, 18:48
I like to think of myself as a person who has diversified his mags, but it really is like 80% PMAGs. I pulled out one of my bins to get a pic to demonstrate and was delightfully surprised to find a couple of A5 systems that I had tossed into one of the mag bins instead of the parts bin by mistake...

36546

bfoosh006
12-17-15, 21:02
Deleted

samuse
12-17-15, 21:51
I don't have mag diversity. I only have mags that work. New Gen M3 Pmags, tan follower USGIs.

brushy bill
12-17-15, 23:33
I don't have mag diversity. I only have mags that work. New Gen M3 Pmags, tan follower USGIs.

Do you have a source for the tan follower USGI? I ordered some Okay with same from Botach a year or more ago and have not seen available since. Thanks.

Moose-Knuckle
12-18-15, 04:01
Do you have a source for the tan follower USGI? I ordered some Okay with same from Botach a year or more ago and have not seen available since. Thanks.

The only place that I can ever find them at on a regular basis is Apex, but they want $16 for them . . .

http://www.apexgunparts.com/magazines/ar15-m16-30rd-magazine-aluminum-anti-tilt-new-in-wrap.html

TheChunkNorris
12-18-15, 05:10
Right now most of my mags are:

-Hk polymer magazines
-Magpul PMAG (Gen1/2/M3)
-Brownells USGI
-HK SA80/HRM
-Lancer

All those mags have run flawlessly but the Lancer doesn't like my HK MR556SBR/HK MR556. It's worked well in a LWRC M6-SL so I don't think it's an overall piston vs DI thing. The MR556 is over-gassed and that's well know so that's more than likely the culprit.

_Stormin_
12-18-15, 20:04
I don't have mag diversity. I only have mags that work. New Gen M3 Pmags, tan follower USGIs.

Never had an issue with the brands I own, and my business pretty much preaches diversity. They all work, and I am not dependant on a single source. To each their own I guess.

Rermey Lee
12-18-15, 20:07
All I know is I got a few hundred 30rd Pmag buried at various places around my property, so if Hillary or Obabma come looking to confiscate, I'll still be good to go. I suggest y'all do the same.

brushy bill
12-18-15, 20:15
The only place that I can ever find them at on a regular basis is Apex, but they want $16 for them . . .

http://www.apexgunparts.com/magazines/ar15-m16-30rd-magazine-aluminum-anti-tilt-new-in-wrap.html

Thanks Moose Knuckle.

Combat_Diver
12-19-15, 02:13
Got about 14,000 USGI mags left on a wooden pallet outside my office.
Current NSN is 1005-01-561-7200
Cage: 6P199
Center Industries Corporation
Wichata, Kansas
come packed in one per palistic bag, 100 per case

Mags are marked on sides and not on base plate. Have the new tan follower. Amazes me every time I go to the range that I'm always teaching young kids how to unzipper a 120 rd 5.56 bandoleer to hold 4ea 30 rd mags.



CD

samuse
12-19-15, 15:09
Got about 14,000 USGI mags left on a wooden pallet outside my office.
Current NSN is 1005-01-561-7200
Cage: 6P199
Center Industries Corporation
Wichata, Kansas
come packed in one per palistic bag, 100 per case

Mags are unmarked on sides and base plate. Have the new tan follower. Amazes me every time I go to the range that I'm always teaching young kids how to unzipper a 120 rd 5.56 bandoleer to hold 4ea 30 rd mags.



CD

They don't have 6P199 and the date under that on the side of the mag toward the bottom?

What has been your experience with the tan follower mags?

TacMedic556
12-19-15, 17:26
The only place that I can ever find them at on a regular basis is Apex, but they want $16 for them . . .

http://www.apexgunparts.com/magazines/ar15-m16-30rd-magazine-aluminum-anti-tilt-new-in-wrap.html

There seems to be two threads on mags going right now [ https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?176820-NHTG-OKAY-vs-D-amp-H-LaBelle/page11 ] and the question of where to get them keeps popping up. Botach appears to be out according to individuals receiving notifications of "backorder" status. Here is a place to get mags right now:

Try www.44mag.com he had NHMTG mags in stock and also OKAY I believe.

4 cases of 100 NHMTG mags left: http://www.44mag.com/product/case-nhmtg-ar15-magazines/81
Hundreds of NHMTG 30 rounders in stock per site: http://www.44mag.com/product/nhmtg_magazine_magpul_follower/81
OKAY: http://www.44mag.com/category/okay-industries

Combat_Diver
12-20-15, 00:12
They don't have 6P199 and the date under that on the side of the mag toward the bottom?

What has been your experience with the tan follower mags?

I stand corrected. They do have the CAGE code and date on the bottom right side. Just very hard to see that I missed it.


CD

Moose-Knuckle
12-20-15, 01:17
There seems to be two threads on mags going right now [ https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?176820-NHTG-OKAY-vs-D-amp-H-LaBelle/page11 ] and the question of where to get them keeps popping up. Botach appears to be out according to individuals receiving notifications of "backorder" status. Here is a place to get mags right now:

Try www.44mag.com he had NHMTG mags in stock and also OKAY I believe.

4 cases of 100 NHMTG mags left: http://www.44mag.com/product/case-nhmtg-ar15-magazines/81
Hundreds of NHMTG 30 rounders in stock per site: http://www.44mag.com/product/nhmtg_magazine_magpul_follower/81
OKAY: http://www.44mag.com/category/okay-industries

All of the Okay/NHMTG mags I have received from 44mag and other sources have Mapgul followers, not the new tan USGI anti-tilt follower.

The one's I linked at Apex do have the tan USGI followers, Brushy Bill was asking for a source for the ones with the tan followers.

Airhasz
12-20-15, 01:26
Moose, what differences are you noticing (if any) in using these different followers?

Moose-Knuckle
12-20-15, 02:28
Moose, what differences are you noticing (if any) in using these different followers?

None.

Jeff_56
12-20-15, 04:22
I just bought a PMAG 30 AR/M4 GEN M3 mag today with the window. I don't know if it's been mentioned or what kind of reputation that have really but I've seen positive reviews and the one that came with my AR works fine.

_Stormin_
12-20-15, 08:13
I just bought a PMAG 30 AR/M4 GEN M3 mag today with the window. I don't know if it's been mentioned or what kind of reputation that have really but I've seen positive reviews and the one that came with my AR works fine.

Prepare to buy more... PMAGs are pretty much the standard in polymer mags.

Jeff_56
12-20-15, 11:50
Prepare to buy more... PMAGs are pretty much the standard in polymer mags.

That's what I thought. It was pretty hard to find them though. Not one place I looked online had them. A LGS has several though and if it wasn't Christmas time I'd have bought more. I just got my first AR about 2 weeks ago and I just now got around to getting an extra mag. I expect there to be ore. I generally get carried away with such things. Luckily I had another .223 rifle so I was stocked up on ammo pretty well when I got the AR.

Mauser KAR98K
12-20-15, 15:18
That's what I thought. It was pretty hard to find them though. Not one place I looked online had them. A LGS has several though and if it wasn't Christmas time I'd have bought more. I just got my first AR about 2 weeks ago and I just now got around to getting an extra mag. I expect there to be ore. I generally get carried away with such things. Luckily I had another .223 rifle so I was stocked up on ammo pretty well when I got the AR.

Check SGAMMO.com.

Jeff_56
12-20-15, 15:53
Thanks.