View Full Version : Agency issued/allowed ARs, what mods allowed
Just wondering what, if any, mods are allowed on your agency issued and personally allowed ARs? You don't have to tell the agency if you don't want to. I'm just trying to get an idea of the balance here. Thanks!
My agency, bone stock only, 14.5" & 20" Colts. I'd say we could get away with some minor mods (lights, gooseneck mounted Aimpoint) on our DCT ARs, but it would probably take some arm twistin'.
We can add a single point sling mount of the type that slides over the receiver extension and clamps, and we can add a sling of our choice once we demonstrate proficiency with it. We are receiving mixed signals on 3x magnifiers to the Eotechs. Beyond that, our M4's are pretty well kitted out as we receive them from the armory. If I could do anything with it I'd get an 11.5 instead of a 14.5 barrel.
Pretty open to accessories. Can add slings, lights, rails, red dots, magnifiers, scopes, stocks, VFG, grips. However the internals need to remain factory and no two stage or match type triggers and factory barrels. However the Gunsmiths / Armorers have the final approval overall.
We have both issued and personal rifles.
We allow rails, lights, tritium sights, Aimpoint or EO Tech sights, changes in stocks and grips. Pretty open policy.
rrpederson
09-22-09, 05:47
my dept. allows personally owned and issued rifles. mods include just about everything from the stock to the barrel. the only issue i think we have is no nfa items, for example short barrels, autos and suppressors. honestly, if nfa items were allowed, i would probably drop some extra money on it. another requirement is that any modification must be authorized before installation, and installation must be done by one of our armorers. they can do this because we have a large department.
Single Point Sling Mount without removing receiver ext.
go figure I was ordered not to mount.. 1. a laser pointer 2. optics:eek: "but 550 cord sling adapter" was allowed "early 90s" now laser pointers and optics issued but you can't use the simple 550 cord sling adapters:p..
go figure.
Other things not allowed then or now, take front site pin out and file down thinner and put back in, so you can see targets at longer ranges for more effective fire. Blanking over sized front sight post.
Reasonable requests to add high quality widgets are generally approved. Approval is contingent upon user understanding of the widgets, proficiency with them, and regular inspection.
We have both issued and personal rifles.
We allow rails, lights, tritium sights, Aimpoint or EO Tech sights, changes in stocks and grips. Pretty open policy.
Same here, the stipulation is that the items are of high quality, and that you can explain the need for the component.
SWATcop556
09-22-09, 18:00
Same here, the stipulation is that the items are of high quality, and that you can explain the need for the component.
My dept first issued 14.5 DPMS with carry handles and a TLR 1 light. I finally got it approved to carry personal rifles. The approval has to be signed by the administration on letterhead and you have to qualify with it before it is carried.
They are pretty easy going on after market gear, which is a good and bad thing. I finally had to get the policy changed up some after so many Aimpoint knock offs and BSA air rifle red dots were shitting the bed. Now it has to be quality parts approved by armorers.
The only thing not allowed is any type of magnified optics. Only the snipers on the Tac team can run a scope or a magnifier.
Kentucky Cop
09-22-09, 22:02
I would like to know how many sworn officers are on the departments also. It seems that the bigger the department, the more policy on rifles in my opinion. It would be interesting to compare...
My department is 650 officers plus. We are only allowed to purchase DPMS, Bushmaster, Colt, Smith, Double Star, and Sabre rifles. We can add slings, rails, stocks, grips, and authorized for most Eotech's and a few Aimpoints. No magnification is allowed. Weapons must be black in color, no exceptions. Weapon lights are not authorized yet but the range master is working on changing the policy. The department usually issues Bushmasters to senior officers and or supervisors first and works their way down. I would say that half of the department has a personal or division rifle with them at all times. In order to carry one, you have to attend a division week long rifle school. We are currently working on an advanced course for officers who want to take it to the next level.
We (an 11000ish department) are authorized Colt, S&W, BM, DSA Arms, RRA, and possibly one or two more. S&W is what we can sign out from the radio room should we choose not to utilize our our rifle. We are authorized to equip a light, red dot sight (only Eotech or Aimpoints) and a sling. Rails might get approved but I hear they don't fit well in the car mounts. Our general order doesn't elaborate much more but we are still new to the patrol rifle game. Don't get me started on how long and hard it is to actually get into the training.
Ours all falls back to policy and says "final approval rest with the chief or his designee" But it is required that we have a sling, light, irons at minimum, and 1 extra mag, not inserted into the magwell to deploy with the rifle. Those are the min. req. Now red dots, and redimag/mod, and magnified optics, and such are to be approved, and be of "high quailty" which is a joke some times. And TCLEOSE(Texas law enforcement governing body) has changed the defination of a precision rifle to one whose optics exceed 3x. A lot of guys had to take some nice ACOGS off of their rifles and that sucked. Our agency is not picky about stock, sling, barrell minus nfa has to be approved, changes to bcg, buffers springs ect. Its really a do as you please just don't break the law, and don't carry a frankingun that "scares" the public.
Hope this helps
Matt
Colt, DPMS, and Bushmaster are the AR-15s we're allowed to have.
eightmillimeter
09-23-09, 04:03
Large department. Policy allows personally owned rifles but the Chief won't allow them. Plane Jane S&W is issued, no modifications of any kind are allowed.
I've always found it interesting that agencies will specify a list of manufacturers, but rarely specify a list of manufacture and assembly standards that would help ensure their troops have a serviceable gun. That's a terrible disservice to their people.
I suspect that they don't know the differences, don't care, are too lazy to learn, have hidden agendas, or combinations thereof.
Kentucky Cop
09-23-09, 09:50
I would like to know how many sworn officers are on the departments also. It seems that the bigger the department, the more policy on rifles in my opinion. It would be interesting to compare...
My department is 650 officers plus. We are only allowed to purchase DPMS, Bushmaster, Colt, Smith, Double Star, and Sabre rifles. We can add slings, rails, stocks, grips, and authorized for most Eotech's and a few Aimpoints. No magnification is allowed. Weapons must be black in color, no exceptions. Weapon lights are not authorized yet but the range master is working on changing the policy. The department usually issues Bushmasters to senior officers and or supervisors first and works their way down. I would say that half of the department has a personal or division rifle with them at all times. In order to carry one, you have to attend a division week long rifle school. We are currently working on an advanced course for officers who want to take it to the next level.
I forgot to add that policy mandates that we keep them in the cruiser's trunk at all times to we need to deploy them. Rifle should be in a "patrol ready" positon. Rumor is the department was worried about liability of the rifle in a rack up front and claimed that many officers wouldn't take them in at night or place them in the trunk.
I envy the dept's that keep them in a rack up front...., must be nice.;)
SWATcop556
09-23-09, 11:04
I've always found it interesting that agencies will specify a list of manufacturers, but rarely specify a list of manufacture and assembly standards that would help ensure their troops have a serviceable gun. That's a terrible disservice to their people.
I suspect that they don't know the differences, don't care, are too lazy to learn, have hidden agendas, or combinations thereof.
That's why we were issued DPMS. Some bean counter who woud probably shit his pants if he had to hold one of these evil rifles saw that they were $100 cheaper than a decent S&W or Colt.
I love and prefer BCM or LMT but not very many people even have a clue who they are. Most think BCM is Bushmaster and I typo'd a "C" in there. :rolleyes:
Our dept is around 750ish or so.
Personal weapons any modifications. Dept. issued weapons (Colt 14.5) no permanant mods. Weapon must be returned as when issued. Training is a three day class and yearly qualification.
Dept. is 38 officers.
We dont issue rifles yet but have a fairly specific policy on POW mods.
16" barrel unless registered as SBR
Sights - Aimpoint and Trijicon are only authorized optics right now
Slings - VCAS/VTAC only . No single point slings. No HK 3 Point sling of death.
SF white light required
Redimag/Redimod - Ok
Rail system - Ok
We dont list specific manufacturer's as any rifle have to be approved by Dept. Armorer (me)
As far as stock's etc., I dont really care. We make some recomendations as far as BCM extractor upgrade etc. Every rifle has to be inspected by Dept. Armorer before being approved.
We dont issue rifles yet but have a fairly specific policy on POW mods.
16" barrel unless registered as SBR
Sights - Aimpoint and Trijicon are only authorized optics right now
Slings - VCAS/VTAC only . No single point slings. No HK 3 Point sling of death.
SF white light required
Redimag/Redimod - Ok
Rail system - Ok
We dont list specific manufacturer's as any rifle have to be approved by Dept. Armorer (me)
As far as stock's etc., I dont really care. We make some recomendations as far as BCM extractor upgrade etc. Every rifle has to be inspected by Dept. Armorer before being approved.
Do they specify a model or just anything by SureFire?
we can add just about anything. they are very officer safety oriented. the standard issue ar right now is M16-A1's with the full auto option still operational. now that's trust. i use my pers. AR for my duty long gun.
That's why we were issued DPMS. Some bean counter who woud probably shit his pants if he had to hold one of these evil rifles saw that they were $100 cheaper than a decent S&W or Colt.
Exactly. Quality doesn't cost much more. As a point of reference, here are some Colt prices from the latest Phoenix Distributors flyer.
Individual Officer Pricing:
LE6940, $1325.00
LE6920, $1100.00
AR6721, $1100.00
AR6520, $1000.00
Agency Pricing:
LE6940, $1130.00
LE6920, $955.00
AR6721, $930.00
AR6520, $865.00
R0933, $1055.00 (Commando, Auto)
R0977, $1085.00 (M4, Auto)
The last time I bought 6520s, they were $825.00. I had to wait awhile, but they were worth it. I could've had lesser brands shipped immediately, for ~$100.00 less than what I paid.
I just asked the wife and she said (1500 officers):
Colt 69xx rifle
Reddot (Aimpoint, EO, ACOG, Leupy 1-14)
No mods to the lower (slip on sling adapter and stock)
Upper is open season (she's running a Sabre middy)
No NFA
Not LEO but a recent Army video from Afghanistan - note the variety on the M4s. One guy even has an Aimpoint T1 with 3X mag.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDYjNao0YTw
Almost 450 sworn here.
Rifles are 6920 A2's. No mods. Rifles are sighted in by Academy Staff.:rolleyes:
Dangerous, I know.
Hopefully that will change in the next year. Its getting better. They're even nervous about me taking my SWAT gun on patrol.
Kentucky Cop
09-25-09, 14:36
Almost 450 sworn here.
Rifles are 6920 A2's. No mods. Rifles are sighted in by Academy Staff.:rolleyes:
Dangerous, I know.
Hopefully that will change in the next year. Its getting better. They're even nervous about me taking my SWAT gun on patrol.
Wow! No RDS's or lights and the staff sighting in the weapon?! I hope your chief comes to grips that the world is a different place since he was an officer. SHTF all the time in small cities, big cities, schools, malls, airports. I am sure we all have a certain situation burned in our minds of a active shooter situation that has taken place. (mine is the New Jersey incident where a suspect took out several officers in a street gun battle). I hope your campaign to carry your swat rifle prevails. We need cruisers with automatic weapons out there that can deploy at a moments notice and take the fight to them. Good luck..
Yup...working on it...
Unfortunately the training staff is pretty resistant to the opinions of the dedicated end users. If it didn't come from one of them or someone in their little circle, then they really don't pay much thought to it The department next door is of similar size, and allows any make of AR-15 clone as long as its quality, and inspected by the range staff. Red dots, lights, decent slings are allowed, SBRs to 11.5 are allowed; the CLEO will sign off, but its up to the officer to do the paperwork.
I've tried to steer the training team in the right direction, but they're very resistant to change (read: more work). They're now looking at personal issue/purchase rifles, but they'll only go with 1 specific brand, and while its a good brand, its not the easiest to get. They're also worried about allowing red dots and lights. Why? I don't know. It seems like they feel the need to start from scratch and learn what everyone else has already learned all over for themselves. Let me put it this way: it took us over a year to get handgun lights approved, and that was only last year.
Small security dept with shared rifles between shifts. No changes at all. With sharing rifles, lowest common denominator! :rolleyes:
goodoleboy
09-26-09, 14:47
Not LEO but a recent Army video from Afghanistan - note the variety on the M4s. One guy even has an Aimpoint T1 with 3X mag.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDYjNao0YTw
There's a lot that's changed since I got out in 2000. I never used ACOGs, holographic sights, etc. I can see their advantages over iron sights (until the batteries die).
6933, as issued, no mods allowed. one almost has to ask permission to clean it.
Pmag in for pic, issued with 2 colt 20rnders, issued ammo is federal 62grn bonded (40 rnds)
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd2/103m95g/DSCN1760.jpg
I suppose I'm lucky here. About 45 sworn, rural SO. Patrol is issued either a Bushy or RRA semi. Depending on age some are flat tops, some not. All are 16". Swat guys are issued 14.5 full autos that are fully dressed with Aimpoints and Surefires. All have take home cars so keep their weapons with them as well. Pretty much any reasonable mods can be done as long as myself or the other department armorer approves and does the wrench turning. The patrol rifles are issued with irons only and no lights or tactical slings. Patrol gets 2 20's, Swat 4 of whatever they want, 20 or 30. They can add any quality, reasonable, accessory. some add rails, lights, RDs, and slings. Some nothing. They are required to zero the rifle and then qualify with it.
Ours only leave the racks in the arms room for annual qual, not much use for them in a high rise like you would see in a place with towers. Our M4's have selector blocks, only mod Ive seen to them.
Ours only leave the racks in the arms room for annual qual, not much use for them in a high rise like you would see in a place with towers. Our M4's have selector blocks, only mod Ive seen to them.
MDC Honolulu? FCI Ashland here.
MDC Honolulu? FCI Ashland here.
Yup, FDC Honolulu here, trying to get FPC Yankton so I can homestead in a place that is NFA friendly and a little cooler in the winter.
My agency doesn't issue long guns to everyone. We have a federal grant that is going to start providing ARs to SROs. K9 officers are issued some ancient ex-Army FA M16s. SWAT operators are issued either 7.5" FA Bushmasters or 10.5" HK416s. Everyone is allowed to have their own AR if they want. They need to take a day long course and qualify annually with it. You can put whatever the hell you want on it. Most people keep it either KISS or a simple VFG + light and some sort of RDS.
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