View Full Version : Stag/S&W M&P-15
Mattallica
02-15-07, 22:21
I've been reading on this rifle and I'm really loving what I find in these articles on google, but I come here and find out a few things not mentioned on the articles I find on google.com. For example when some people talk about the rifle they mention it like it's less of a weapon, also stated such things like it doesn't have M4 feed ramps, properly staked BCGs, and uses the 4140 Barrel instead of the 4150. (Someone also stated they would rather have the 1/7 twist, from what I had to read on barrel twist I prefer the 1/9)
With those topics posted here leave me with a few question I hope I can get some answers to, because I am very interested in buying this rifle.
(Just a side note, I am NEW to AR's but I am reading everything I can about them to learn as much as I can so I know what AR best fits me and what I want from my AR) (Also I don't expect all these to be answered 100% accurate, opinions on the questions will do fine, just state that it's you're opinion)
1) What feed ramps does the M&P-15 have? and why is M4 better?
2) what is BCG's? how could you stake them properly? also why is it right from the factory and not stacked properly?
3) 4140/4150 Someone posted a link that describes pretty much what makes these metals but what is the performance difference between the two? and how noticeable are they? also if it applies, when do you start to notice the differences between the two?
4) Stag, Are they an American based company?
5) Compared to Tier 1 and 2 AR's how does this stand against them performance and reliability wise?
6) What's the warranty on one from S&W?
7) To owners or people who have fired this rifle before, how was the performance of the rifle?
I'm sure I will have more questions as this topic grows, for now I think this is enough lol
ALSO, ANY OPINIONS ON THE ***M&P-15*** WILL BE APPRECIATED!
Thanks a lot for the help and replying you're thoughts!
-Matt
Please no thread jacking or wondering off topic, try to stay on topic. Thanks
You could save money and just get the Stag. It's the same thing. Really.
I'd get an AR from one of the dealers here. You'd get exactly what you want and you can talk to the guy who built it. They're posting here just about everyday.
Sorry I don't have anything to say specifically about the M&P but it's just an AR-15. Nothing more, nothing less. For the price they sell it for you could get something sweet with a Noveske barrel of your choosing.
Look on this forum and you will see where im bitching about my M&PT that is on its way back to Smith as we speak.
I really do like my M&P. Everything fits tight, but not too tight. Seems to be reasonably accurate.
I got mine at a really good price, or I would probably be in another Bushmaster.
Yes Stag is an American company.
They don't have M4 feed ramps. M4 feed ramps extend into the receiver making it less likely a failure to feed will occur. However unless you are using the long and heavy bullets (75gr, 80gr) you're gun might feed 100% anyway.
Stag uses 4140 barrel steel. 4150 has a higher carbon content, so it's harder, therefore harder to machine, therefore more expensive. If you don't get your barrel hot this won't make a difference. If you do run your gun hot, throat erosion will occur at a higher rate with 4140 steel vs the 4150. Also accuracy will drop off sooner with the 4140 when it gets hot.
Stag uses very good bolt carrier groups. If they aren't staked properly, it's not a big thing to stake them correctly. I've not had the problems with Stag BCG's that I've had with Bushmasters personally.
Mattallica
02-16-07, 18:38
oo yea, I'm definitely getting a Stag. I just called both S&W and Stag. Not only did Stag's Customer Service seemed more well informed and able to answer most of my questions on their products, also as we all know cheaper for the same rifle, but get this, all their complete rifles come with a LIFETIME warranty on the same rifles when S&W only offers a ONE year warranty for something they charge more for?!?!?!?! I was going to get the S&W version, yes, I was sorta after the name but **** that now lol I want that wannity. Just a side note, One of the members here told me that CMT makes the parts for Stag which also Colt uses, I did some reading and found out that Stag is really the commercial version for CMT, so really Stag is CMT, can anyone else vouche for this?
Mattallica
02-16-07, 18:55
Yes Stag is an American company.
They don't have M4 feed ramps. M4 feed ramps extend into the receiver making it less likely a failure to feed will occur. However unless you are using the long and heavy bullets (75gr, 80gr) you're gun might feed 100% anyway.
Stag uses 4140 barrel steel. 4150 has a higher carbon content, so it's harder, therefore harder to machine, therefore more expensive. If you don't get your barrel hot this won't make a difference. If you do run your gun hot, throat erosion will occur at a higher rate with 4140 steel vs the 4150. Also accuracy will drop off sooner with the 4140 when it gets hot.
Stag uses very good bolt carrier groups. If they aren't staked properly, it's not a big thing to stake them correctly. I've not had the problems with Stag BCG's that I've had with Bushmasters personally.
Thanks a lot! you answered the most important questions! thanks!
Keep posting though guy's, I'm still reading.
Look on this forum and you will see where im bitching about my M&PT that is on its way back to Smith as we speak.
Do you remember the subject name? I've read a few pages of threads and don't remembing see one as such.
Mattallica
02-16-07, 23:00
Yes Stag is an American company.
Stag uses 4140 barrel steel. 4150 has a higher carbon content, so it's harder, therefore harder to machine, therefore more expensive. If you don't get your barrel hot this won't make a difference. If you do run your gun hot, throat erosion will occur at a higher rate with 4140 steel vs the 4150. Also accuracy will drop off sooner with the 4140 when it gets hot.
How much can a replacement 4150 barrel run? ($$$$ ??) just out of curiosity.
$224 at grtactical.com (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=BRL-BCM&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3D%26searchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html%26category%3DBCOM)
oo yea, I'm definitely getting a Stag. I just called both S&W and Stag. Not only did Stag's Customer Service seemed more well informed and able to answer most of my questions on their products, also as we all know cheaper for the same rifle, but get this, all their complete rifles come with a LIFETIME warranty on the same rifles when S&W only offers a ONE year warranty for something they charge more for?!?!?!?! I was going to get the S&W version, yes, I was sorta after the name but **** that now lol I want that wannity. Just a side note, One of the members here told me that CMT makes the parts for Stag which also Colt uses, I did some reading and found out that Stag is really the commercial version for CMT, so really Stag is CMT, can anyone else vouche for this?
Stag is an excellent company for sure. They do a couple things wrong IMHO. First, their carrier keys are not properly staked (this is a bad thing). They also do not use the proper extractor insert (not a big deal).
If you buy a Stag upper, make sure to address the carrier key issue!
C4
$224 at grtactical.com (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=BRL-BCM&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3D%26searchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html%26category%3DBCOM)
If only they were in stock! :(
C4
Mattallica
02-17-07, 15:41
Well I'm ordering this one from the net lol I just went to my local dealer (Guns & Knives/Arizona Shooting Range) to find out how it would cost to get it through them, yea, it's not happening lol they wanted $1200.00!!! o.0 lol screw that, I'll just order it for $949. and pay the $25 S&H (I think it's $25.) from StagArms.com (http://www.stagarms.com/) or search else where on the web for better prices...
I though this was pretty cool, thought I would post it, I found this on their site.
"Founded in May of 2003, Stag Arms LLC is one of the leading manufacturers of rifles and rifle components. What began as a sister company to a corporation with over 30 years experience manufacturing Aerospace and rifle parts, Stag Arms has grown into a nationwide phenomenon with the introduction of their Stag 15L – the world’s first true left handed rifle of its kind. Stag Arms has since grown into one of the largest AR-type manufacturers in the world. We at Stag Arms are proud to say that all of our major rifle components are manufactured in house, and are therefore made in America. Since none of our components are imported or manufactured overseas, it allows us to guarantee top notch products to our loyal customers. We feel this is important to our customers because we help people achieve the American dream."
Stag is an excellent company for sure. They do a couple things wrong IMHO. First, their carrier keys are not properly staked (this is a bad thing). They also do not use the proper extractor insert (not a big deal).
If you buy a Stag upper, make sure to address the carrier key issue!
C4
Thanks for the info C4,
How would I go by correcting those issues? (If you know a site that shows this that would be great)
Thanks
Mattalica just look at the other threads title S&W or something to that effect.
If you like the M&PT I will sell you mine once it gets back from Smith. I decided to just get a Colt. Its cheaper to get the S&W tactical model then to add all of the stuff to a stag.
i've got an M&P15. its the basic version with a detachable carry handle. paid 900 +tax for it from a local dealer. since i'm using it for patrol, i took it to a carbine class. ran around 800 rounds through it. i purposely did not clean the gun during the class as i wanted to see how grungy i could get it before it started acting up. by the 3rd day, it started getting gritty, but it didnt malfunction. all i did was squirt some lube in through the open ejection port and it was enough.
only really had 2 malfunctions with it, neither were due to the gun itself. the first was caused by a blown primer that got jammed up in the locking lugs.
the second was a mag failure where the follower got stuck on one of the dimple welds and wouldnt push the rounds up into the chamber.
the gas key is staked from the factory and the screws are tight. i check it every time i break the rifle down to clean it.
only real issue was something i wouldnt even have noticed unless i didnt change the part out. and it was a fault of stag, not S&W. i replaced the A2 grip with a tango down. the TD grip wouldnt line up correctly and there was a huge gap. come to find out the screw hole in the lower receiver was milled incorrectly. i talked to someone at TD who informed me of this and how to fix it by drilling out the hole in the grip so that it would snug up. once i did that, it was taken care of.
i havent done price comparisons so i really dont know how much cheaper a complete stag is compared to a basic M&P. i do know that the M&P "A" version comes with a troy BUIS whereas the stag comes with an ARMS 40 BUIS. i've read where people are having issues zeroing the rifle due to elevation problems with the ARMS.
also the M&P15T comes with troy rails and front and rear flip sights. the local dealer has this version for 1250 +tax. seems like a heck of a deal with the troy parts.
i'm no expert. dont profess to be. I used an m16a2 when i was in the army years ago. i'm using this one until it falls apart, which i dont foresee happening too soon.
Mattallica
02-17-07, 22:04
i ran around 800 rounds through it. i purposely did not clean the gun during the class as i wanted to see how grungy i could get it before it started acting up. by the 3rd day, it started getting gritty, but it didnt malfunction. all i did was squirt some lube in through the open ejection port and it was enough.
only really had 2 malfunctions with it, neither were due to the gun itself. the first was caused by a blown primer that got jammed up in the locking lugs.
the second was a mag failure where the follower got stuck on one of the dimple welds and wouldnt push the rounds up into the chamber.
That's sick!
Well, great to hear! lol compared to what I heard some other people go though when they first got it, I hope mine is as sick!
the gas key is staked from the factory and the screws are tight. i check it every time i break the rifle down to clean it.
That's good to hear! but either way it wouldn't be a problem, a monkey could stake it lol or as a I read :P lol for real though, it looks like a 1, 2, BANG! you're done job to stake a carrier key lol
only real issue was something i wouldnt even have noticed unless i didnt change the part out. and it was a fault of stag, not S&W. i replaced the A2 grip with a tango down. the TD grip wouldnt line up correctly and there was a huge gap. come to find out the screw hole in the lower receiver was milled incorrectly. i talked to someone at TD who informed me of this and how to fix it by drilling out the hole in the grip so that it would snug up. once i did that, it was taken care of.
Just so I know, How did the rep at TD inform of how to do this? What were the rep's instructions?
i havent done price comparisons so i really dont know how much cheaper a complete stag is compared to a basic M&P. i do know that the M&P "A" version comes with a troy BUIS whereas the stag comes with an ARMS 40 BUIS. i've read where people are having issues zeroing the rifle due to elevation problems with the ARMS.
I'm not interested in those BUIS's. for now the A3 removable handle will do fine, for later I will be putting on some form of a scope or whatever lol
There's only two reason's why I'm going for Stag over S&W
1) The Warranty.
2) The Price for the same weapon.
If S&W offered the Lifetime Warranty I would go for them, yes, the S&W name would make me feel better 0:) lol
That's sick!
Just so I know, How did the rep at TD inform of how to do this? What were the rep's instructions?
i called them and left a message. Jeff (the owner) called me back and told me how to fix it. really stand up guy.
heres the post i made at another forum about the issue:
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=588262
pictures had been posted, but they've since disappeared
also, heres a report i did about the class i took if you're interested
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=617058
BUIS are a must if the weapon isnt a range only item
Well I'm ordering this one from the net lol I just went to my local dealer (Guns & Knives/Arizona Shooting Range) to find out how it would cost to get it through them, yea, it's not happening lol they wanted $1200.00!!! o.0 lol screw that, I'll just order it for $949. and pay the $25 S&H (I think it's $25.) from StagArms.com (http://www.stagarms.com/) or search else where on the web for better prices...
I though this was pretty cool, thought I would post it, I found this on their site.
"Founded in May of 2003, Stag Arms LLC is one of the leading manufacturers of rifles and rifle components. What began as a sister company to a corporation with over 30 years experience manufacturing Aerospace and rifle parts, Stag Arms has grown into a nationwide phenomenon with the introduction of their Stag 15L – the world’s first true left handed rifle of its kind. Stag Arms has since grown into one of the largest AR-type manufacturers in the world. We at Stag Arms are proud to say that all of our major rifle components are manufactured in house, and are therefore made in America. Since none of our components are imported or manufactured overseas, it allows us to guarantee top notch products to our loyal customers. We feel this is important to our customers because we help people achieve the American dream."
Thanks for the info C4,
How would I go by correcting those issues? (If you know a site that shows this that would be great)
Thanks
I properly stake every carrier before it leaves my shop and change out the extractor inserts and install a Crane O-Ring. This is a FREE service that I provide to my customers.
C4
Mattallica
02-18-07, 20:06
I properly stake every carrier before it leaves my shop and change out the extractor inserts and install a Crane O-Ring. This is a FREE service that I provide to my customers.
C4
How much could you sell a Stag-15 M1 or M3 for? I didn't see them on you're site, if their up there could you link me or tell me where they are, thanks.
Mattallica
02-18-07, 20:10
BUIS are a must if the weapon isnt a range only item
I figured I could just use the handle sight for when I'm not using a scope or w/e I decide to use, I am thinking of getting the Stag-15 M3 just so I could put on w/e front folding sight I want along with rear. the Stag-15 M3 is only $895. on their site! X_X
M3
http://www.stagarms.com/cart/images/stag_arms_model3.gif
How much could you sell a Stag-15 M1 or M3 for? I didn't see them on you're site, if their up there could you link me or tell me where they are, thanks.
Check your PM.
C4
I figured I could just use the handle sight for when I'm not using a scope or w/e I decide to use, I am thinking of getting the Stag-15 M3 just so I could put on w/e front folding sight I want along with rear. the Stag-15 M3 is only $895. on their site! X_X
M3
http://www.stagarms.com/cart/images/stag_arms_model3.gif
The carry handle will not repeat zero (so you will have to re-zero everytime you re-mount it.
C4
The problem with not having some type of back up sight on your weapon at the same time your using an electric scope/sight is that they break or run out of batteries at the worst possible time. My Murphy can attest to that!
I'm not advocating S&W over any other brand.....but it seems like the 15T is an awesome value for what you get. can someone do a cost comparison of a basic rifle with the addition of Troy front and rear BUIS and Troy Rails. I dont know if the rails are Free floated or what length other than its longer than carbine length. Looking at grants site, the front Buis is 120 the rear is 139, and depending on the length of the rail, they start at 225 for a 9 inch.
that totals around 484 bucks, plus the cost of the initial rifle. in my case, the basic rifle was 900. so if i added the rails and BUIS, i'd be looking at around 1384, give or take. the local dealers are selling the 15T for 1250.
so the question is..whats a better deal given the same rails and sights as the 15T on maybe a different brand of rifle, say stag, or whoever?
thanks
Mattallica
02-23-07, 06:13
Check your PM.
C4
lol
Got it, now check your's lol
I'm not advocating S&W over any other brand.....but it seems like the 15T is an awesome value for what you get. can someone do a cost comparison of a basic rifle with the addition of Troy front and rear BUIS and Troy Rails.
While not exactly what you asked for, I still find the below to be awefully telling. I have no idea what each of these rifles is actually going for on the retail market, but the virtually identical S&W rifle (BUIS is different, but cost of Troy vs. ARMS is about the same) is going for $375 more MSRP.
http://www.stagarms.com/cart/images/stag_arms_model2.gif
Stag-15 with A.R.M.S. #40 A2 Model 2 Pre-Ban
$925.00
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/811002_large.jpg
S&W Model M&P15A Rifle
$1,300.00
Wrote by C4IGrant their carrier keys are not properly staked (this is a bad thing). :
I had that issue when I did my 1st build in aug/05 . Their customer service and response came thru for me . I e-mailed my problem on a monday with pic's and that same thursday I got my new bolt carrier in and I hadnt even sent the old carrier out .
10+ on service .
Mattallica
02-23-07, 11:01
While not exactly what you asked for, I still find the below to be awefully telling. I have no idea what each of these rifles is actually going for on the retail market, but the virtually identical S&W rifle (BUIS is different, but cost of Troy vs. ARMS is about the same) is going for $375 more MSRP.
http://www.stagarms.com/cart/images/stag_arms_model2.gif
Stag-15 with A.R.M.S. #40 A2 Model 2 Pre-Ban
$925.00
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/811002_large.jpg
S&W Model M&P15A Rifle
$1,300.00
For the S&W I've seen the M&P-15T (Tactical) go for $1250 - $1400
For the Stag-15 2T (Tactical) I've seen these go for an average of $1060. They can probably go lower.
You can buy a Stag lower for 99 bucks, buy a CMT lower parts kit for 62 bucks, a 6 pos collapsible stock for 69 and then an upper with bolt carrier group, charging handle, and ARMS sight for 489. Grand total $719 clams. JKiser can hook you up with a deal like this.
http://ar15sa.fatcow.com/store/page2.html
Sorry I can't make it hot as I am mentally challenged.
I just wish I could get one that was 1 in 7 with 4150, m4 feed ramps, and a 14.5 barrel for that price. The 4150 is expensive. Even if they just had a midlength I would buy one.
I spoke to Smith's long weapons dept today, it looks like they are doing most of them inhouse now. Im not sure if they are assembling CMT parts or making their own?
I spoke to Smith's long weapons dept today, it looks like they are doing most of them inhouse now. Im not sure if they are assembling CMT parts or making their own?
I think they are still using CMT parts, but have also heard a rumor that they are using LMT BCG's as well!
C4
I called their longgun dept today and was told they are using LMT BCG's
Mattallica
03-07-07, 07:37
How much of a difference should there be between these now? if any difference can be noticed?
The LMT lower is properly staked and close in price, im sure everyone will agree the LMT is a better product.
BTW my M&PT made it back from Smith. They replaced the upper and the BCG after AI told them they needed to have it staked correctly, I didnt think they would care but were very good about everything. The person in charge of long guns is Wayne Goodman if anyone needs a contact.
Robb Jensen
03-07-07, 20:05
I believe the are now LMT carriers. On the new ones the carrier key staking is more along the lines of Colt/LMT instead of the CMT top staking. I'll take a pic tomorrow of the new carrier from one of our older M&P15s and from a newer 15T that I noticed was different yesterday.
This new LMT BCG has a super tight fit of the bolt inside the carrier, do these go through rings fast?
Robb Jensen
03-08-07, 12:23
Here's a pic of a CMT carrier from an older S&W M&P15.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/IMG_17723.jpg
And here's one from a new S&W M&P15T. Clearly a LMT carrier.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/IMG_17713.jpg
Is this where I should be jealous ?
Tang call them and tell them you want a proprly staked one, im sure they will take care of you.
Robb Jensen
03-15-07, 07:57
I'm pretty sure that the M&P rifles are either partially made in house now at S&W or at least partially. The receivers are marked the same but now start at serial number 500000 instead of 100000, also they have the LMT BCGs and no markings whatsoever on the barrels anymore.
I'm pretty sure that the M&P rifles are either partially made in house now at S&W or at least partially. The receivers are marked the same but now start at serial number 500000 instead of 100000, also they have the LMT BCGs and no markings whatsoever on the barrels anymore.
I would agree. I heard that STAG/CMT just couldn't keep up with their demand and I can confirm the use of LMT BCG's (which is a very good thing).
C4
A S&W Rep was at my friend's shop Thursday. He told me the regular M&P15's like mine are still outsourced, but the T model and the A model are made in house now. He couldnt give me a reason for the switch to the LMT BCG, but S&W customer service told me there was nothing wrong with my double staked carrier (their words).
I would agree. I heard that STAG/CMT just couldn't keep up with their demand and I can confirm the use of LMT BCG's (which is a very good thing).
C4
So is that just for the M&P version, or do the Stag "clones" also use the LMT BCG? I just bought a complete Stag Model 2T yesterday and I'll be picking it up this week. Just wondering what to expect.
Thanks!
Jim
Patrick Floyd
03-18-07, 12:56
Stag is a great gun. CS is about the best, I have every seen.
harry_callahan
03-18-07, 15:03
I have been going back and forth on the AR purchase. Colt, M&P-15, bushmaster and stag.
I am looking for an AR for business, not pleasure. I am in L.E. and need something I can depend on. As to the question I have been reading about M&P-15's. My buddy who just got back from Iraq, bought the M&P over the colt. As a man who carried a colt ar-15 into ever hot spot in the desert, I was suprised when he came home with the smith for patrol and swat work.
My friend said the M&P was mil spect and the colt for L.E. was not. This guy knows his guns. special Infantry, firearms instructor.
My question.... I heard stag makes the smith and wesson. I compared the two pics, side by side. These two AR's look identical. I sure like the STAG price. It sounds like everyone is worried about the barrel.. Ask yourself.. How often are you going to be in a running gun battle with your AR?
So is that just for the M&P version, or do the Stag "clones" also use the LMT BCG? I just bought a complete Stag Model 2T yesterday and I'll be picking it up this week. Just wondering what to expect.
Thanks!
Jim
Stag's use CMT BCG's. Certain M&P models are NOT built by Stag and those models are getting LMT BCG's.
C4
I have been going back and forth on the AR purchase. Colt, M&P-15, bushmaster and stag.
I am looking for an AR for business, not pleasure. I am in L.E. and need something I can depend on. As to the question I have been reading about M&P-15's. My buddy who just got back from Iraq, bought the M&P over the colt. As a man who carried a colt ar-15 into ever hot spot in the desert, I was suprised when he came home with the smith for patrol and swat work.
My friend said the M&P was mil spect and the colt for L.E. was not. This guy knows his guns. special Infantry, firearms instructor.
My question.... I heard stag makes the smith and wesson. I compared the two pics, side by side. These two AR's look identical. I sure like the STAG price. It sounds like everyone is worried about the barrel.. Ask yourself.. How often are you going to be in a running gun battle with your AR?
According to the TDP, the Stag and M&P are NOT mil-spec. The main reason is barrel steel, twist rate, lack of M4 barrel extension, and M4 upper receiver. If were going to split hairs, they also don't have an H2 or even an H buffer in them.
Are they a good gun? Sure are (especially with T and the A models coming with LMT BCG's), but they are not equal to a Colt 6920 IMHO.
I follow the belief that it is better to have something and not need it and need it and not have it. So I personally go with the BEST components when building my AR's. "Good enough" doesn't really work for me. YMMV
C4
harry_callahan
03-18-07, 15:25
According to the TDP, the Stag and M&P are NOT mil-spec. The main reason is barrel steel and lack of M4 barrel extension, and M4 upper receiver. If were going to split hairs, they also don't have an H2 or even an H buffer in them.
Are they a good gun? Sure are (especially with T and the A models coming with LMT BCG's), but they are not equal to a Colt 6920 IMHO.
I follow the belief that it is better to have something and not need it and need it and not have it. So I personally go with the BEST components when building my AR's. "Good enough" doesn't really work for me. YMMV
C4
Completely understand, but how many guys on here actually use it everyday? I completely understand the gun enthusiust... I am one. The thing I am saying, is this is a tool. This is a gun I am going to bang up, scratch and shoot the hell out of. This will not be a gun case trophy.
I read about guys using AR'S for home defense. Crap most cops dont even carry an AR in the field and they deal with gangsters, crack heads and murderers everyday, well at least where I am from.
Oh well, I guess the point of my rant is that I see guys on swat, special forces and such, using different ar's. I guess there is the right AR for the right situation.
Completely understand, but how many guys on here actually use it everyday? I completely understand the gun enthusiust... I am one. The thing I am saying, is this is a tool. This is a gun I am going to bang up, scratch and shoot the hell out of. This will not be a gun case trophy.
I read about guys using AR'S for home defense. Crap most cops dont even carry an AR in the field and they deal with gangsters, crack heads and murderers everyday, well at least where I am from.
Oh well, I guess the point of my rant is that I see guys on swat, special forces and such, using different ar's. I guess there is the right AR for the right situation.
I really don't think it is about using it everyday, it is about needing it to be as reliable as possible.
No AR IMHO is worthy of being a case trophy (especially a Colt). The fit and finish tend to be somewhat lacking IMHO. Their reliability on the other hand, tends to be the best.
Most times, cops/SWAT don't be have any say in what they carry. The pencil pushers buy the cheapest AR's they can find. So I generally NEVER put much stock in what some PD is using.
C4
harry_callahan
03-18-07, 15:36
We actually purchase our own. We were given authority to purchase and carry. No one purchases the Colt. Believe me, it was my first thought, but you are not buying the same as used in the military. That's why my friend says it is not military spec. He said the M&P was the closest to the colt he carried. The L.E. colt won't take the 5.56 nato round. .223, but nothing else, from what I heard. I could be wrong though.
harry_callahan
03-18-07, 15:48
I just wanted to add, I was not trying to start a typing war, hehe. I just hear so many opinions about what to buy and waht's the best. I think it is funny that we are so particular about our guns. I guess it depends if you are a collector or an operator. I think I am going to get the Stag for now. If it doesn't stand up to the beating, then I will use it as a baton.
Most times, cops/SWAT don't be have any say in what they carry. The pencil pushers buy the cheapest AR's they can find.
Nothing persuades a CLEO like having his own issued good-as bargain gun poop the bed. Nor does anything generate a purchase order as fast.
Interestingly, the price difference between quality and the lessers isn't that great with a smart buyer and competitive bidding.
The L.E. colt won't take the 5.56 nato round. .223, but nothing else, from what I heard. I could be wrong though.
You are.
harry_callahan
03-18-07, 16:59
True.. I see some guys buy the top of the line gun, with all the bells and whistles. After spending 25, 000, they can't even hit center mass. I am looking for something simple and durable. Something that I can shoot on the move and be rough with. I know BMW makes a great car, but it is not practical for me.
harry_callahan
03-18-07, 17:05
I guess it is the old arguement. Do I use a semi auto or a reliable revolver as a back up weapon. You can bury a revolver in the dirt and still shoot it two days later. I like simple and functional. Putting rounds on target is up to the operator. all the money in the world doesn't put rounds in the ten ring.
Seals use the sig sauer. Great gun, I own and use one. Rangers use something else. Whos right? is the 40 better than the 9? it is the age old questions that trigger several answers.
We actually purchase our own. We were given authority to purchase and carry. No one purchases the Colt. Believe me, it was my first thought, but you are not buying the same as used in the military. That's why my friend says it is not military spec. He said the M&P was the closest to the colt he carried. The L.E. colt won't take the 5.56 nato round. .223, but nothing else, from what I heard. I could be wrong though.
You are somewhat right. The only way to get an M4 is to be issued one. The cloeset second there is to the M4 is the Colt 6920. NO OTHER AR IS CLOSER TO AN M4 THAN THIS WEAPON!
Colt's are chambered in 5.56 NATO and will shoot it just fine.
C4
harry_callahan
03-18-07, 17:11
Nothing persuades a CLEO like having his own issued good-as bargain gun poop the bed. Nor does anything generate a purchase order as fast.
Interestingly, the price difference between quality and the lessers isn't that great with a smart buyer and competitive bidding.
You are.
Like I said, I could be wrong, hehe. I do know there is some difference in the law enforcement edition due to rounds. That has been an issue with our range masters.
I guess it is the old arguement. Do I use a semi auto or a reliable revolver as a back up weapon. You can bury a revolver in the dirt and still shoot it two days later. I like simple and functional. Putting rounds on target is up to the operator. all the money in the world doesn't put rounds in the ten ring.
Seals use the sig sauer. Great gun, I own and use one. Rangers use something else. Whos right? is the 40 better than the 9? it is the age old questions that trigger several answers.
A shooter is a shooter (no matter what the weapon). Using the best quality components, proper PM's and lubrication also have a big role in the reliability of the AR platform.
Differences of opinion on calibers is a different animal than what we are talking about here. The Colt AR follows the TDP to the letter. The M&P and Stag do not. It is really that simple.
C4
Like I said, I could be wrong, hehe. I do know there is some difference in the law enforcement edition due to rounds. That has been an issue with our range masters.
I am guessing that they are trying to cram a 223 into a 556 chamber and the 223 brass is just a little too big which is causing malfunctions.
C4
harry_callahan
03-18-07, 17:16
Grant, I will take somewhat right any day, hehe. I am by far no expert!!!! Just something I heard, which is causing some guys to buy th M&P at our dept. Seems like alot of guys are getting away from the bushmaster.
Question. Is it the size or length of the round, that is the issue?
harry_callahan
03-18-07, 17:19
Gotcha. I just saw your last post. That might be the issue. Did you get my private message, regarding purchasing and distribution of an AR. I am curious how Stag will ship.
WOW. WOW is all I can say. Please don't do this type of stuff with your AR15 and make us ALL look bad.
http://a22.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/37/l_6e870b4371975f3439ed740218a7ddcd.jpg
Im one of those guys who should just get it right from the begining. I bought a M&PT as my domestic carry weapon, it had some issues which have been resolved and it runs like a champ now. Im almost retired from the military and have been selling tactical stuff and weapon componets at gun shows in my spare time. Im a LMT dealer now and think their stuff is super duper and have purchased a couple for my own use. Now I want a Colt(because I dont have one) and stumbled across M4 marked Colts that just dont have the burst and im going to have to buy one. Do I think that the M&PT is reliable? YES! But I should have spent alittle more in the beginning and upgraded to a better product from the start.
I am guessing that they are trying to cram a 223 into a 556 chamber and the 223 brass is just a little too big which is causing malfunctions.
C4
Grant, it was my understanding that the 5.56 NATO is the slightly larger dimension, not the .223 SAAMI.
I am guessing that they are trying to cram a 223 into a 556 chamber and the 223 brass is just a little too big which is causing malfunctions.
C4
:confused:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97/bogardaw/556cham.gif
You are somewhat right. The only way to get an M4 is to be issued one. The cloeset second there is to the M4 is the Colt 6920. NO OTHER AR IS CLOSER TO AN M4 THAN THIS WEAPON!
BTW, I'd say a RO977 (http://www.colt.com/law/m4.asp) or even an LE6921 (http://www.colt.com/law/lecarbine.asp) are closer to spec than the LE6920. Both, however, are NFA weapons, and the R0977 is a post-86 MG (LEO only).
WOW. WOW is all I can say. Please don't do this type of stuff with your AR15 and make us ALL look bad.
http://a22.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/37/l_6e870b4371975f3439ed740218a7ddcd.jpg
Where the hell did you get that picture?
Grant, it was my understanding that the 5.56 NATO is the slightly larger dimension, not the .223 SAAMI.
I thought so as well, but I recently saw some 223 ammo that had bigger casing than 556 (which is why I posted what I did). After examining them, I found out that they reloads that were not sized properly. :rolleyes:
C4
Does anyone else ever just block out the "my sister's boyfriend's brother's uncle was/is an armorer for the SEALs/SWAT/Rangers and he said use a Taurus because if I put electrical tape on the grip it won't leave fingerprints" kinds of posts?
It constantly amazes me what a load of crap people will allow themselves to be fed simply because they think the feeder is somehow knowledgeable and are too lazy/ignorant/whatever to go find out for themselves. At the very least they should go find out what that person's alleged qualifications actually mean. If I cleaned guns, shot, or acted the way the "firearms instructors" for a certain central Florida police department told me I should I'd be even more screwed up than I am already.
Wearing a red hat, having a badge, or owning dog-tags does NOT mean that the person in question has any idea what they are talking about when it comes to firearms. Their claims to the contrary notwithstanding.
:confused:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97/bogardaw/556cham.gif
BTW, I'd say a RO977 (http://www.colt.com/law/m4.asp) or even an LE6921 (http://www.colt.com/law/lecarbine.asp) are closer to spec than the LE6920. Both, however, are NFA weapons, and the R0977 is a post-86 MG (LEO only).
I would agree on the Colt's, but most folks won't spend the money on a tax stamp.
C4
Rob-
His Myspace page!
oh boy!
Then my other post in this thread is all that more timely.
Where the hell did you get that picture?
That's a good question, but someone should tell him that he needs to cock and lock the 1911 before taking a hostage. :confused: :D
Like I said, I could be wrong, hehe. I do know there is some difference in the law enforcement edition due to rounds. That has been an issue with our range masters.
Nothing due to rounds.
Barrel length and FCG pin sizes (~.170 vs ~.155).
Sounds like your range masters need some armorer courses.
FlyAndFight
03-20-07, 10:42
WOW. WOW is all I can say. Please don't do this type of stuff with your AR15 and make us ALL look bad.
http://a22.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/37/l_6e870b4371975f3439ed740218a7ddcd.jpg
This is the "Harry Callahan" posting all of these questions?? :rolleyes:
Yes. You guys don't have a Myspace page so you can look at his pics huh?
I'd post more of his PUBLIC pics but I don't want to look like I was making fun. I wasn't. I was just trying to make an important point.
Im not really one to make fun of people, but if someone posts a pic like that they deserve to be made funof.
harry_callahan
03-22-07, 23:55
Nothing due to rounds.
Barrel length and FCG pin sizes (~.170 vs ~.155).
Sounds like your range masters need some armorer courses.
Actually he did through colt and other manufacturers. He also gave me a better understanding last night. It is not so much the round, but there has been barrel changes through the years. It was the early barrel dimensions that were causing the problem. Before you start posting "your an idiot replies". understand I am learning.. He was explaining that the barrels were a smaller diameter which caused more pressure and when the cartridge was getting hot, it was having problems getting extracted. Colt made the throat of the barrel a slight bit larger to fix the problem.
harry_callahan
03-22-07, 23:59
This is the "Harry Callahan" posting all of these questions?? :rolleyes:
How did I get tied into that picture? Not me. If that was me in the pic, it would be a liberal instead of the dog..
Before you start posting "your an idiot replies". understand I am learning..
My intent was only brevity, not to be rude.
Serious students are all still learning. Good on you.
Well I was finally able to pick up my Stag AR 15 2T today. It looks and feels pretty good. The BCG looked okay, but gotm4 went ahead and restaked it just to be sure.
Unfortunately I couldn't take it to the range today. My outdoor range doesn't have rifles this weekend and the indoor range burned down last week! So I have a rifle and lots of ammo that are just itching to get busy!
I'm pretty pleased with what I've seen so far.
Jim
Robb Jensen
03-24-07, 20:41
Well I was finally able to pick up my Stag AR 15 2T today. It looks and feels pretty good. The BCG looked okay, but gotm4 went ahead and restaked it just to be sure.
Unfortunately I couldn't take it to the range today. My outdoor range doesn't have rifles this weekend and the indoor range burned down last week! So I have a rifle and lots of ammo that are just itching to get busy!
I'm pretty pleased with what I've seen so far.
Jim
I'm glad you like it Jim. I restaked the carrier key (with MOACKS and counterstaked with P-MOACKS!) and restaked the M4 stock nut too. I think I put a Crane O-ring on the extractor spring for you too. If not let me know. It sucks about Shooters burning down. Maybe Quantico will be open on Sunday next weekend for you.
I'm glad you like it Jim. I restaked the carrier key (with MOACKS and counterstaked with P-MOACKS!) and restaked the M4 stock nut too. I think I put a Crane O-ring on the extractor spring for you too. If not let me know. It sucks about Shooters burning down. Maybe Quantico will be open on Sunday next weekend for you.
You da' man! Glad to see you had a day (or at least a morning) off. I just renewed my membership to Quantico so as soon as they open for rifles, we'll be there!
Jim
Certain M&P models are NOT built by Stag and those models are getting LMT BCG's.
Howdy all,
Does anyone know when the cutoff date (or actually, serial number) was when the M&P15T rifles switched to LMT BCG's?
Thanks in advance.
Howdy all,
Does anyone know when the cutoff date (or actually, serial number) was when the M&P15T rifles switched to LMT BCG's?
Thanks in advance.
No, but it is EASY to spot a LMT BCG. There will be the letter "L" and the letters "MP" stamped on the bolt. The bolt extractor will also have a black insert and a Crane O-Ring installed. The carrier key will be staked normally (not a line across the top).
C4
I saw the Smith and Wesson reps at an expo this past weekend and some of them are plain dumb. I was talking to one about the new AR that uses the Sundevil parts and he straight out told me that they were making the billet uppers and lowers in house as well as the other parts. The rep incharge came over as a crowd was growing listening to the info and whispered into his ear. He then said your right and walked away. I think if they are representing their products they should know what they are talking about. :p
No, but it is EASY to spot a LMT BCG. There will be the letter "L" and the letters "MP" stamped on the bolt. The bolt extractor will also have a black insert and a Crane O-Ring installed. The carrier key will be staked normally (not a line across the top).
Thanks for the response. I'm about to buy an AR after a long hiatus from owning one. I like the M&P15T's after having handled one. Seem solid. Given the option, based on what I've heard, I'd rather it have the LMT BCG. I'll check it out an my local shop. Thanks.
I bought the M&PT as in impulse item, it had to go back to Smith because it was FUBAR and they replaced the whole upper, I also complained about the BCG not being properly staked and they put in the LMT BCG. It runs like a champ now. I have used the AR platform for a living for the past 18years but didnt know about all the technical stuff like and have learned lots since being on this forum. I think the M&PT will hold up well but I have got the AR bug and became an LMT dealer(selling at gun shows is a hobby of mine that shuts the wife up so I can buy more toys) and bought a couple of them for my own use and really like them. Now im gonna get a M4 marked colt with the 14.5 barrel plus tax stamp just like I use to use. This AR disease really sucks.
Thanks for the response. I'm about to buy an AR after a long hiatus from owning one. I like the M&P15T's after having handled one. Seem solid. Given the option, based on what I've heard, I'd rather it have the LMT BCG. I'll check it out an my local shop. Thanks.
If your local shop doesn't have any or at a price you like, give me a call. I will be stocking every M&P AR soon.
C4
I bought the M&PT as in impulse item, it had to go back to Smith because it was FUBAR and they replaced the whole upper . . . .
What about it was FUBAR? What were the symptoms? It sounds like you had an earlier one if they replaced the BCG with one from LMT. True? Thanks in advance.
If your local shop doesn't have any or at a price you like, give me a call. I will be stocking every M&P AR soon.
Thanks. Right now they have one on the shelf that I have handled. If it is gone when I go to buy, I might give you a call.
M4 feed ramps extend into the receiver making it less likely a failure to feed will occur. However unless you are using the long and heavy bullets (75gr, 80gr) you're gun might feed 100% anyway.
Might? I've never had any issues firing 77gr in an AR that didn't have M4 ramps. And as long as I was at the store selling BH ammo, I can't remember ever hearing anyone complain about it either. That's not to say that nobody does, I just haven't heard of it IRL.
My M&P-15T ate through all the 77gr I had... that's what I used to break the gun in. I'm probably getting close to 1k on it, the barrel hasn't settled down yet, but accuracy is improving. I can't remember how much of it I've shot, but the only problems I've had with the M&P was when I started shooting RG through it. Ran like crap with the H2 buffer, consistent short stroking/FTF on a H buffer, but it ran fine with a standard carbine buffer. 75 and 77gr BH runs great with the H2 buffer.
Is it as nice as some of the Colts I've owned? Probably not. For $1250 + shipping and transfer though, it's a damn solid firearm. If the crap hit the proverbial fan, I'd grab my BM-59 first anyways. :p
onebohemian
04-03-07, 08:32
Earlier in these posts, someone reported that the new builds start with serial number 500000 while the old builds' serial numbers were 100000 and up. Has anyone else been able to confirm this? If the 15Ts are the only ones being built in-house, are they the only ones getting the new 500000+ serial numbers, or are the 15s and 15As getting that new number system now too?
I want to order a 15T from an online seller because the shelf prices in my area are close to msrp. I'm trying to put together as much information as I can so when I speak with the online seller I can confirm that the rifle I'm ordering is actually going to be a current, in-house build. I would think the seller could check to see whether there is an LMT BCG installed on the gun before he ships to me, but my gut tells me there's a better chance the guy would check the serial number before he'd field strip the gun to check the markings on the bolt.
Thanks,
The first ones started out with SW 00xxx
Although I haven't seen any 2 digit M&P's, I have seen them in the 100-300 serial range.
Mine was one made right before they started the LMT BCG, They replaced it because I told them I wasnt happy with the staking job on a 1700.00 MSRP carbine. The problem I had was that it wouldnt chamber a round and when I finnaly got it to chamber one it wouldnt chamber the next. Its not a bad deal with all of the goodies it comes with and it runs like a champ now.
Earlier in these posts, someone reported that the new builds start with serial number 500000 while the old builds' serial numbers were 100000 and up. Has anyone else been able to confirm this? If the 15Ts are the only ones being built in-house, are they the only ones getting the new 500000+ serial numbers, or are the 15s and 15As getting that new number system now too?
Thanks,
The A and T are built in house now. As for the serial numbers, I do not know.
onebohemian
04-05-07, 09:31
No, but it is EASY to spot a LMT BCG. There will be the letter "L" and the letters "MP" stamped on the bolt. The bolt extractor will also have a black insert and a Crane O-Ring installed. The carrier key will be staked normally (not a line across the top).C4
Any chance one of you guys with a new S&W M&P15 having one of these LMT BCG's in it could take a picture of the bolt so that I could actually see the location of the "L" and "MP" stamps on it as well as the appearance of the staking from factory? I would like to use the picture with an internet seller to confirm that he ships me a rifle with the updated parts (i.e., a newly built rifle). Being fairly new to this hobby, I'm having trouble explaining exactly what I want him to look for before he runs my credit card. If he confirms for me on the phone that the bolt looks identical to the bolt in the picture I email him, I'd sleep easier knowing the rifle that I see when I open the box will actually be a new one.
If someone's willing to assist, the pics can be emailed directly to me.
I'd very much appreciate the help. Thanks.
Any chance one of you guys with a new S&W M&P15 having one of these LMT BCG's in it could take a picture of the bolt so that I could actually see the location of the "L" and "MP" stamps on it as well as the appearance of the staking from factory? I would like to use the picture with an internet seller to confirm that he ships me a rifle with the updated parts (i.e., a newly built rifle). Being fairly new to this hobby, I'm having trouble explaining exactly what I want him to look for before he runs my credit card. If he confirms for me on the phone that the bolt looks identical to the bolt in the picture I email him, I'd sleep easier knowing the rifle that I see when I open the box will actually be a new one.
If someone's willing to assist, the pics can be emailed directly to me.
I'd very much appreciate the help. Thanks.
You really don't need to see a pic of it as it looks just like any other bolts. You just need to ask them what letters are stamped in the bolt. If the bolt has these stamp markings, then you are good to go.
C4
On Saturday, I plan on picking up a new M&P15T from my local shop (no waiting period here, just can't get there before then). I'm going to pull the bolt out first to make sure it is properly staked though. Wish me luck!
powderkeg45
06-10-07, 19:49
Just got my M&P 15A a couple weeks ago. Only has about 400 rounds through it. Anyone else having problems with FTFs? Tried a half dozen magazines, but still had a few ftfs. BTW, I'm new to the AR platform, and any help would be greatly appreciated.
Just got my M&P 15A a couple weeks ago. Only has about 400 rounds through it. Anyone else having problems with FTFs? Tried a half dozen magazines, but still had a few ftfs. BTW, I'm new to the AR platform, and any help would be greatly appreciated.
Did you clean and properly lube the weapon? At about 200-300rds, the oil will burn off and it will need re-lubed.
C4
powderkeg45
06-13-07, 23:32
Did you clean and properly lube the weapon? At about 200-300rds, the oil will burn off and it will need re-lubed.
C4
After picking up my m&p i cleaned and lubed it with CLP. On the 1st range visit i ran about 250-300 rounds through it. Didn't clean it until i got home that evening. Re-lubed prior to shooting last weekend. With the factory mag I had 5 out of 25 rounds fail to feed. The problem I'm having is the the bolt begins to feed the round, but doesn't quite seat all the way to full battery. When you cycle the action to remove the failed round and feed a new one, the round is bent with scrape marks on one side, and no indent on the primer. I also have two HK mags, and only had a couple problems with feeding on these mags.
ps. on the second range trip i did clean and re-lube around 100 rounds.
Robb Jensen
06-14-07, 06:56
Just got my M&P 15A a couple weeks ago. Only has about 400 rounds through it. Anyone else having problems with FTFs? Tried a half dozen magazines, but still had a few ftfs. BTW, I'm new to the AR platform, and any help would be greatly appreciated.
I repaired a M4C members upper a month or more ago. (it was a S&W M&P15) that was giving his some weird jams and short stroking, not going completely into battery etc.
I replaced the carrier key and screws, staked properly. Removing the barrel from the upper receiver, reinstalled and torqued properly. Reamed chamber to 5.56mm NATO and it now runs fine. His barrel had been installed with approx. 10-15ft lbs of torque and I could turn the barrel within the upper by hand with the receiver mounted in the vise block.
After picking up my m&p i cleaned and lubed it with CLP. On the 1st range visit i ran about 250-300 rounds through it. Didn't clean it until i got home that evening. Re-lubed prior to shooting last weekend. With the factory mag I had 5 out of 25 rounds fail to feed. The problem I'm having is the the bolt begins to feed the round, but doesn't quite seat all the way to full battery. When you cycle the action to remove the failed round and feed a new one, the round is bent with scrape marks on one side, and no indent on the primer. I also have two HK mags, and only had a couple problems with feeding on these mags.
ps. on the second range trip i did clean and re-lube around 100 rounds.
There could be several issues at work here. Your buffer spring could be too weak to push a round into the chamber. Load one round into a mag and drop the bolt. Fire the round. Does the bolt lock back?
If it does, then take a mag loaded with 30rds and drop the bolt. Did it chamber a round? If no, then either your buffer spring is weak or your mag is holding the rounds too tightly.
As M4 stated, you could have a chamber issue as well, but we will wait to check that last.
What ammo are you using?
C4
powderkeg45
06-15-07, 00:58
Thanks for the tips, I'll try loading a mag with 30 rounds and see what happens. The first magazine i tried after cleaning the weapon had 20 rounds in it, and it failed to load the first round by pulling back and letting fly the charging handle. I did try 8-10 mags with only one round in each, and each time the bolt locked back after firing.
First I was using UMC 47 grn hollow points. Then I was shooting federal american eagle 55 grn fmj.
I had a similar problem with my M&PT, the upper was out of spec and they replaced it.
powderkeg45
06-15-07, 01:08
I had a similar problem with my M&PT, the upper was out of spec and they replaced it.
Shihan, how did you go about contacting s&w about that?
The phone number is on their website, have them send you a call tag and tell them you want it returned Air and not ground as you need the weapon back ASAP. If you have the CMT bolt thats not staked right tell them you want it staked and they will probably switch it out for a LMT like they did for me.
Thanks for the tips, I'll try loading a mag with 30 rounds and see what happens. The first magazine i tried after cleaning the weapon had 20 rounds in it, and it failed to load the first round by pulling back and letting fly the charging handle. I did try 8-10 mags with only one round in each, and each time the bolt locked back after firing.
First I was using UMC 47 grn hollow points. Then I was shooting federal american eagle 55 grn fmj.
When you are loading a round, Lock the bolt back and then use the bolt release. Using the charging handle to chamber a round can be a bad idea.
The ammo you have is ok, but 47gr hollow points are geared more for bolt gun than an auto loader IMHO. When troubleshooting a problem, try to always use mil-spec ball. This takes some of the guess work out of it.
C4
powderkeg45
06-16-07, 00:49
Here's a pic of a CMT carrier from an older S&W M&P15.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/IMG_17723.jpg
And here's one from a new S&W M&P15T. Clearly a LMT carrier.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/IMG_17713.jpg
My carrier matches the photo of the CMT carrier. The key is tight however and hasn't seemed to loosen up at all. Don't know if this could be causing my problems or not. I do know that when I try to manually extract the rounds from my factory mag, the right side column is much more difficult to remove from the mag than the left side rounds. The factory 30 round mag is also 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch shorter than the HK 30 round mags.
Just got an email back from someone and S&W saying that I should call them and ask for a return label. Pretty impressive on how fast he got back to me via email.
I've read thru the entire thread and it would seem that Colt has the fewest complaints of all guns. I realize this is a Stag/S&W thread but Colt is a referenced manufacturer.
powderkeg45
06-21-07, 20:26
When you are loading a round, Lock the bolt back and then use the bolt release. Using the charging handle to chamber a round can be a bad idea.
C4
call it a newb question, but why is it a bad idea to use the charging handle? Personally i prefer using the bolt release, but i'm interested to know what problems can arise from this other method.
On a side note, i got my magpul pmags in the mail today so i'm going to try them out this weekend to see if i have better luck with the feeding issues. I tried a friend's h&k mag and had no ftf problems with it, so maybe i'm having magazine difficulties.
thanks again for everyone's input. I am new to the AR platform, and this forum, but you guys have been very informative and helpful.
call it a newb question, but why is it a bad idea to use the charging handle? Personally i prefer using the bolt release, but i'm interested to know what problems can arise from this other method.
On a side note, i got my magpul pmags in the mail today so i'm going to try them out this weekend to see if i have better luck with the feeding issues. I tried a friend's h&k mag and had no ftf problems with it, so maybe i'm having magazine difficulties.
thanks again for everyone's input. I am new to the AR platform, and this forum, but you guys have been very informative and helpful.
Because you can ride the bolt. This slows it down and can give you the dreaded "click!"
Mags are one of the weakest links in the AR platform.
C4
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