View Full Version : South Korea planning sale of 86,000 Garand rifles to US citizens
Jay Cunningham
09-24-09, 04:50
South Korea planning sale of 86,000 Garand rifles to US citizens (http://www.examiner.com/x-2206-Cleveland-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m9d23-South-Korea-planning-sale-of-86000-Garand-rifles-to-US-citizens)
South Korea's defence ministry has announced plans to sell up to 86,000 M1 Garand rifles to gun enthusiasts and collectors in the United States. Along with a reported 22,000 M1 carbine rifles, the total value of firearms for sale exceeds $100 million.
The U.S. government has approved the plan for sales of the rifles, which were originally given to South Korea as part of a U.S. aid program in the 1950's.
The M1 is reportedly the first semi-automatic rifle generally issued to the infantry of any nation and saw service in the U.S. military from 1936-1966, primarily during World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War. Subsequently, the M1 became a highly sought after collectors item, particularly through the Civilian Marksmanship Program. The U.S. military also sells surplus M1 rifles through the program.
A well-maintained Garand is both accurate and reliable, and the rifle is popular for hunting, target shooting, competitive shooting, military parades and reenactments as well as being prized collector pieces.
South Korea expects this sale to raise tens of millions of dollars.
This is good news for those who peruse the CMP stores. Hopefully it will relieve prices that are insanely high for an M1 carbine--$695 currently.
On the other hand, why the hell don't we just take back what is ours? Let the gov't reacquire them by political force and then sell them to the public.
NinjaMedic
09-24-09, 08:01
Any time frame?
Here's a little more info from various sources:
86,000 M1 Garands.
22,000 M1 Carbines.
This is the biggest batch since the Greek returns came in a few years ago.
The deal has been approved by the US government. That's great news -- the Clinton Administration almost always blocked the re-importing of Garands & M1 Carbines.
No CMP involvement in this deal , according to Mike Orest of CMP.
Looks like the ROK's will hold on to 640,000 war reserve M1 Carbines for a few more years. They plan to phase out the reserve storage Carbines by 2020.
Except for during the Clinton era , Garands & M1 Carbines have been trickling back to the US from South Korea since the Reagan administration. Many needed some work , some were in decent mechanical shape out of the box , a few were like new from factory rebuild.
If a .30-caliber rifle is LENDED or LEASED to a foreign country it's still United States Government property. When that nation is done with it they return it to Uncle Sam, he ships it to Anniston Army Depot, it's refurbished or overhauled for sale, and by law the Civilian Marksmanship Program can offer it for sale to fund the National Matches and CMP mission operations.
If the US SOLD it to a foreign nation under Foreign Military Sales, or gave it as an outright grant then that weapon is property of that country -- they can sell it back, burn it, or melt it -- it's THEIR stuff.
If they're anything like the ones brought in from Korea in the late 80's by Blue Sky or Arlington Imports, they're going to be rode hard and been put away wet.
Still, there are always diamonds in the rough.
Very cool. Now how do I prevent Garand thumb?
John_Wayne777
09-24-09, 09:57
I'm not sure where the last batch of CMP M1 carbines came from, but they were in very good shape....
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/IMGP0343.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/IMGP0340-1.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/IMGP0344.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/IMGP0339.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/IMGP0334.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/IMGP0333.jpg
Mine looked practically brand new.
The last batch of CMP M1 Carbines came back from Greece. The 33K before that were returned by the Italians.
M1 Garands have been returned to CMP by Denmark , Greece and some other counties. A few thousand from Latin America were never sold as complete rifles , but were used as spare parts and the recievers salvaged whenever possible.
Quite a few Garands and Carbines were de-mil'ed and sold as parts kits by private companies when the Clinton administration blocked the importation of complete rifles.
I have two Italian Typo II 7.62 conversion Garand parts kits that were completed with CMP receivers.
MPi-KMS-72
09-24-09, 10:21
If they're anything like the ones brought in from Korea in the late 80's by Blue Sky or Arlington Imports, they're going to be rode hard and been put away wet.
Still, there are always diamonds in the rough.
There were at least some Blue Sky ones that weren't bad. A friend of mine purchased one that was apparently rebarreled/rebuilt here in 1965(?) and I doubt it had been shot since then. It was the exceptiont to the rule though for sure.
Maybe they culled out the worst of them back then and are just dumping the remainder now- it will be neat to see in any case! :)
CarlosDJackal
09-24-09, 10:22
Let's hope that the leftists don't try to stop this. I'd like to get my hands on another M-1 Carbine.
Very cool. Now how do I prevent Garand thumb?
With a M1A.
MPi-KMS-72
09-24-09, 10:31
Let's hope that the leftists don't try to stop this. I'd like to get my hands on another M-1 Carbine.
The M1 carbine was the weapon my grandfather carried in WWII and was the first surplus/military rifle I ever had any real contact with, I've had a soft spot in my heart for them ever since.
I hope they sell us a crapload of ammo to go with them though. :D
So it seems this is a couple of years off? For a newbie to the collectors world, where would I go about looking for these other then the typical locations (gun shops/shows). Are there particular locations collectors go to first in order to beat the gun store mark up?
So it seems this is a couple of years off? For a newbie to the collectors world, where would I go about looking for these other then the typical locations (gun shops/shows). Are there particular locations collectors go to first in order to beat the gun store mark up?
For right now:
www.thecmp.org
As posted above CMP is not involved in the South Korean deal.
FlyAndFight
09-24-09, 10:43
Amazing condition on your M1 Garand in particular, John_Wayne777.
MPi-KMS-72
09-24-09, 10:46
So it seems this is a couple of years off? For a newbie to the collectors world, where would I go about looking for these other then the typical locations (gun shops/shows). Are there particular locations collectors go to first in order to beat the gun store mark up?
It depends what importer is getting them from the Koreans. Get a subscription to the Shotgun News and keep an eye in there.
John_Wayne777
09-24-09, 10:59
Amazing condition on your M1 Garand in particular, John_Wayne777.
A 1953 gun with matching numbers. Not bad for 400 bucks. I only wish I could afford a lot more.
Sweet I've always wanted to add these to my safe. Hopefully I will.
RogerinTPA
09-24-09, 17:40
This is excellent news. Seems like the most efficient thing for them to do is to send them all here and open up a website. I hope the process in getting these weapons to the public is sped up. I'd like to pick up one of each.:)
oh great - more to collect. This is a terrible addiction. I need to seek counceling soon!
Would absolutely like to pick up another Garand and M1 Carbine - love the carbines, just wish the ammo was more available.
You can prevent M1 Thumb by keeping the heel of your hand on the op rod handle while inserting the clip into the rifle. As the handle moves forward, it kicks your hand (or more importantly, your thumb) out of the way of the rapidly closing bolt. It usually only takes one instance of doing it wrong before becoming motivated to learn to load an M1 properly.
A 1953 gun with matching numbers. Not bad for 400 bucks. I only wish I could afford a lot more.
$400? Holy Moly.
Definitely going to look into one. Would love to own a Garand.
best i remember,, AIM sent me an email ad of m1 carbines,, i think it said they were imported from korea,, but ,, they were $750-$950,, i didn't pay much attention, as i have two inlands, no import marks.
I dont think that is what AIM got, was only 10 rifles or so. Dont remember reading about any import marks either.
Ammo - the key to having some M1Cs seems to be getting the ammo these days.
staugustfla
09-26-09, 16:35
$100,000,000 total deal cost for 108000 rifles.......that is $925.93 per unit....add dealer mark up....etc........what will likely be the selling price to the public?
i'll quickly admit,,, i don't remember. when you get as old as i am,, your memory is the second thing to go--i don't remember what the first one is..
The_War_Wagon
09-26-09, 17:39
$400? Holy Moly.
Definitely going to look into one. Would love to own a Garand.
DEFINITELY!:eek: I'll take rack grade at that price, and take it from there! :D
goodoleboy
09-27-09, 12:26
I hope the barrels and gas pistons are in relatively good shape. Those issued in the 1950s probably have had their fair share of corrosive ammo shot through them. I would be reluctant to purchase one "sight unseen" unless you got them through CMP's grading process.
I've got a surplus M1 Garand Rifle, and I love it. She's no beauty queen, but I shot a groundhog with it once at nearly 250 yards. Awesome rifle.
Jay Cunningham
09-27-09, 12:34
If they are decently priced, I'd be in for another Garand and an M1 Carbine. Damn collectors have put the current prices of the Carbines through the roof... :mad:
i've been doing some serious lusting after one of the fulton armory carbines,, just can't justify the $1299 price,, i can get another 6920 for less than that. ...oh well,,, maybe one of these days----[ they are are thing of beauty, though, to me]
Here's some more peices to the puzzle -- from The Chosun Iibo newspaper:
www.chosun.com
Click on ENGLISH near the top of the page , then search for M1 carbine.
Look for " Korea to sell old rifles back to U.S." -- Sept 23 , 2009 11.31 KST.
FWIW:
CMP started taking orders for the Bavarian police M1 Carbines yesterday. A little too pricey for me , but the Service Grades seem to be in good shape . Too bad the "Game Warden " Carbines are auction only.
www.thecmp.org
There's a hot link on the CMP page marked:
"Further information in regards to the history of the Bavarian carbines can be found....
{ and a link.} "
Looks like some M1 Carbines imports from Central Europe were blocked by the Clintons back in the 1990's. Some of those Carbines were sold to a company in Italy, others finally arrived at CMP years later.
I missed out on the previous Korean M1s but don't feel too bad about it. I got my first from the old DCM in the 80s. Getting a rough one up and running well can get expensive. Barrels, op rods, and gas cylinders are a lot more than they used to be. I got into rebarrelling my own for the experience and moderate savings.
I am having to think about putting a scout scope on one which seems sacreligious. Way back when I learned the manual of arms on the M1 in ROTC I didn't need a stupid scope. But then I could see stuff with iron sights, too. :p
Jay Cunningham
08-18-10, 10:11
US opposes Seoul’s bid to sell old rifles (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/08/205_71329.html)
:nono:
US opposes Seoul’s bid to sell old rifles (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/08/205_71329.html)
:nono:
You can count on the Obummer administration to make the wrong decision every time.
ForTehNguyen
08-18-10, 10:41
“The U.S. insisted that imports of the aging rifles could cause problems such as firearm accidents. It was also worried the weapons could be smuggled to terrorists, gangs or other people with bad intentions,” the official told The Korea Times.
:rolleyes:
"other people with bad intentions"
Like some of the political appointees.
John_Wayne777
08-18-10, 12:02
US opposes Seoul’s bid to sell old rifles (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/08/205_71329.html)
:nono:
May those objecting to doing something the US government has done for DECADES without issue fornicate themselves with a cactus.
....and this is EXACTLY why I'm not interested in hearing about how benign the current administration has been on guns. As this issue demonstrates, they will jump on gun control whenever they are able to do it.
Screw 'em.
GermanSynergy
08-18-10, 13:26
Thank you for the information. I've been looking for one of these for a long time! :D
JW777- some very nice rifles you got there! :cool:
FWIW:
CMP started taking orders for the Bavarian police M1 Carbines yesterday. A little too pricey for me , but the Service Grades seem to be in good shape . Too bad the "Game Warden " Carbines are auction only.
www.thecmp.org
There's a hot link on the CMP page marked:
"Further information in regards to the history of the Bavarian carbines can be found....
{ and a link.} "
Looks like some M1 Carbines imports from Central Europe were blocked by the Clintons back in the 1990's. Some of those Carbines were sold to a company in Italy, others finally arrived at CMP years later.
John_Wayne777
08-18-10, 14:01
I've done very well with my CMP purchases.
People concerned about the Administration's complaints to Korea about this should ask their Congressman/woman and Senators about this. If enough people ask them about it they may make some inquiries and raise the profile on this some. Can't hurt to have your elected reps asking questions about this.
GermanSynergy
08-18-10, 19:47
I love the preposterous arguement that was made stating that these guns were dangerous and gangs could use em... :rolleyes:
I'm sure every gang member is itching to wield a Garand....:rolleyes:
This is unbelievable. Mexican gangs and homeboys sporting M1 Carbines and Garands. Maybe a 1903 Springfield...
I think we need to hit the Senators and reps on this - should hit some of the grass roots groups with this one...
variablebinary
08-18-10, 20:34
A Garand behind every blade of grass
Truly an American icon
A Garand behind every blade of grass
Truly an American icon
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Range%20122709/OldSchool1.jpg
"Get off my lawn."
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Range%20122709/P1040324.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Range%20122709/P1040327.jpg
GermanSynergy
08-19-10, 17:44
Nice pics, Templar. This thread makes me want to buy a Garand right now.....:help:
How hard is it to get good quality M1 carbine mags?
Nice pics, Templar. This thread makes me want to buy a Garand right now.....:help:
Yeah, that's my dad with his CMP M1 Garand and his Springfield Armory Mil-Spec. He was issued a Garand in the Army.
Brian, I've heard good things about the Korean M1 Carbine mags that AIM Surplus has.
15 round magazines (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=MM1C&groupid=4)
30 round magazines (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=MM1C30&groupid=4)
If the administration wanted to be credible they should have just said we don't guns coming into the U.S. Instead they create a laundry list of crap. WTF, over?
I love the preposterous arguement that was made stating that these guns were dangerous and gangs could use em... :rolleyes:
I'm sure every gang member is itching to wield a Garand....:rolleyes:
This:
People concerned about the Administration's complaints to Korea about this should ask their Congressman/woman and Senators about this. If enough people ask them about it they may make some inquiries and raise the profile on this some. Can't hurt to have your elected reps asking questions about this.
The gun-grabbers tried to stop the Blue Sky imports from the ROK back in the late 1980's . They delayed the imports for over two years , locked up one shipment in Customs for months -- but , ultimately , were defeated. Over 200K of Garands & Carbines reached the US market .
This import blocking action by the current Administration is complete bullshit and very self-defeating.
Make them pay , it's an election year.
This one should be fun to watch .
We are winning.
www.saf.org
www.nra.com
Unfortunately, it appears the current U.S. Administration is intent on destroying part of U.S. history.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/01/obama-administration-reverses-course-forbids-sale-antique-m-rifles/?test=latestnews
The South Korean government, in an effort to raise money for its military, wants to sell nearly a million antique M1 rifles that were used by U.S. soldiers in the Korean War to gun collectors in America.
The Obama administration approved the sale of the American-made rifles last year. But it reversed course and banned the sale in March – a decision that went largely unnoticed at the time but that is now sparking opposition from gun rights advocates.
Please go to website for full article.
Also, Mods, please merge with other thread. Thanks.
Thread in progress :)
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=38377
No surpirse here; I would've been surprised if they allowed us our 2A rights, and buying back our own rifles without trying to **** us in every orifice first.
As most of you already know, Garands cannot take high capacity magazines. Its magazine is En bloc and only holds 8 rounds. It cannot be made to hold more without major surgery that would hardly be worth anyone's time. But of course, all their excuses are just a way to justify appeasement to another liberal constituency, the "gun fraidy cats."
As most of you already know, Garands cannot take high capacity magazines. Its magazine is En bloc and only holds 8 rounds. It cannot be made to hold more without major surgery that would hardly be worth anyone's time. But of course, all their excuses are just a way to justify appeasement to another liberal constituency, the "gun fraidy cats."
The majority of the rifles according to the article are M1 Carbines, not M1 Garands. The M1 Carbine does have an evil detachable "high capacity" magazine.
The majority of the rifles according to the article are M1 Carbines, not M1 Garands. The M1 Carbine does have an evil detachable "high capacity" magazine.
Don't you think I know that? The article says Garands and carbines. My comments were about Garands to illustrate a point about anti-logical excuses used by the anti-gun crowd. I could have used the carbine to make a similar point. Understand?
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-02-10, 13:56
Need to strip down that posting of the article per copyright, eh?
"Asked why the M1s pose a threat, the State Department spokesman referred questions to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. ATF representatives said they would look into the question Monday afternoon, but on Wednesday they referred questions to the Justice Department. DOJ spokesman Dean Boyd referred questions back to the State Department."
Sounds like the BP-Haliburton-other dudes circle jerk.
Oh my, they are military weapons! Hold onto your 1911, 92FS and pump shotguns!
After reading the post below, I dug a bit deeper into the article and retract some of my statements about the short-sightedness of the article. I was always under the ASSumption that primarily Garands were part of the deal and that only a handful of carbines were in the mix, as well as a few BAR's.
However statements like this are why the reporting is still flawed: "In contrast, 200,000 M1 rifles from South Korea were allowed to be sold in the U.S. under the Reagan administration in 1987". Well, which type of M1's were they? I only ask because unfortunately there is a very big difference between an 8 shot clip and a 15-30 round magazine legally for some, so they should clarify it for us.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/01/obama-administration-reverses-course-forbids-sale-antique-m-rifles/?test=latestnews
ForTehNguyen
09-02-10, 14:21
they were probably talking about M1 carbines which have scary 10+ mags
Don't you think I know that? The article says Garands and carbines. My comments were about Garands to illustrate a point about anti-logical excuses used by the anti-gun crowd. I could have used the carbine to make a similar point. Understand?
From your first post, it seemed as if you thought all the talk about detachable magazines was a total red herring because Garands don't have those, and I was saying the talk about them makes sense because they are talking about the Carbines (even if they are totally retarded justifications for the actions of the State Department)...sorry for the misunderstanding :rolleyes:
The quote from the news article looks like the start of a good news story to me:
Need to strip down that posting of the article per copyright, eh?
"Asked why the M1s pose a threat, the State Department spokesman referred questions to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. ATF representatives said they would look into the question Monday afternoon, but on Wednesday they referred questions to the Justice Department. DOJ spokesman Dean Boyd referred questions back to the State Department."
Sounds like the BP-Haliburton-other dudes circle jerk.
Oh my, they are military weapons! Hold onto your 1911, 92FS and pump shotguns!
Hot potato.
;)
ETA 1
They are throwing that thing around . Everybody is getting burned on the hands and it just keeps getting hotter & hotter. The best plans of miceand kids.......
Looks like some people in Congress are getting tired of the BS and double-talk.
Senator Tester of Montana is introducing a bill in the Senate:
www.tester.senate.gov/Newsroom/pr_100110_nra.cmf
A counterpart bill is moving in the House. The intent is to eliminate the State Department's and the Pentagon bean-counters' power to screw with C & R gun imports.
Seems as though a set of BATFE briefing slides and an internal use position paper have been leaked , reportedly by a middle manager in the BATFE food chain .
www.examiner.com/gun-rights-national/atf-surplus-korean-import-pose-a-threat-to-public-safety-in-the-u-s
Cliff's notes:
Effect of Granting Retransfer Authority....
- Request approved May 2009 to transfer 87,000+ Garands & 770,000+M1 Carbines .
- Other counties have old USGI guns including M-1911 pistols.
- The ROK's ( alone ) own over 10% of the total US M1 Carbine production.
- The large numbers of Carbines and 1911's are a threat to public safety.
Increase in Imported Firearms
- The ROK has authority to transfer 857,000+ plus shoulder guns , many more than the total of 600,000 rifles imported into the US last year.
- " The ROK is only the beginning "... In 1998 , D of State and ATF grossly underestimated the number of USGi firearms that could be available for import back to the US.
- 2,5000,000 1911 series pistols were produced.
.
- " Generally speaking , the greater the supply of a good , the less it costs."
There's a lot more. The usual freeze-dried 1990's Clintonista BS.
:laugh:
Congress is moving , the NRA , etc , are solidly behind the effort .
The Collectible Firearms Protection Act
Senate:
8 sponsors
House:
129 sponsors
Mauser KAR98K
09-16-11, 19:28
Congress is moving , the NRA , etc , are solidly behind the effort .
The Collectible Firearms Protection Act
Senate:
8 sponsors
House:
129 sponsors
That is fantastic news.
GermanSynergy
09-16-11, 19:40
What are the odds of this piece of legislation being vetoed?
Damn near zero.
The POTUS has not vetoed any pro-gun bills yet. His gun-grabber record sucks but he's no moron.
This whole goat-phuque is ( IMO ) the POTUS's worst nightmare .
Like him or loath him , Obama is way too smart of a pro pol to want to commit career suicide like that. IMO , OK , wild guess -- the Klintons & Holder are trying to set him up for failure -- so they can run against a Republican 4+ years from now.
FWIW & YMMV.
Mauser KAR98K
09-16-11, 22:12
Damn near zero.
The POTUS has not vetoed any pro-gun bills yet. His gun-grabber record sucks but he's no moron.
This whole goat-phuque is ( IMO ) the POTUS's worst nightmare .
Like him or loath him , Obama is way too smart of a pro pol to want to commit career suicide like that. IMO , OK , wild guess -- the Klintons & Holder are trying to set him up for failure -- so they can run against a Republican 4+ years from now.
FWIW & YMMV.
That's unless the Hildabest and Holder aren't thrown in jail over Fast & Furious.
Heavy Metal
09-16-11, 22:34
What are the odds of this piece of legislation being vetoed?
Let him veto it. It will just help Director Larue become a relaity in 2013. He will bring the boys back home!
It's a very dynamic situation.
Paper covers rock . Scissors cuts paper. Rock breaks scissors. Etc....
The Blue Sky USGI Carbine & Garand deal took around 4 years to complete. This current situation is less than 2 years old.
We are winning.
www.saf.org
www.nra.com
This could be a ray of sunshine:
That's unless the Hildabest and Holder aren't thrown in jail over Fast & Furious.
It's the return of the happy ending .
LonghunterCO
09-19-11, 09:58
[QUOTE=A-Bear680;1100432]Damn near zero.
Like him or loath him , Obama is way too smart of a pro pol to want to commit career suicide like that.
[QUOTE]
I am not so sure of that. His first two and half years have been little but "career suicide" decisions. His last jobs speech proved to me that he has become quite comfortable with "Career Suicide". He's a One Trick Pony. He has his vision of America and it does not include gun ownership.
-That said, I hope that this happens but I don't see it happening before 2013.
Won't get any argument from me about anything but the veto part.
2013 is the time frame that I would guess as well . Almost a year has been lost because of the dis-information campaign that has been ( and still is ) sponsored by Century Arms International and Gunbroker.
The 20year old gun-grabber lie that :
'Them Ko-ree-ans is trying to sell back guns we loaned them."
Pure drivel. And the liars actually used flash mobs on the CMP forums to spread the lie.
ETA:
SMOKE 'em , Dano!
Edit #!
Yuck...
Damn ... wish there was a way to just put it on thier foreheads.
Edit #2
Or maybe earmark the bad guys like the old timers did to hogs.
The Collectible Firearms Protection Act is doing OK in the House but is stalled in the Senate.
Back to the REAL QUESTION:
So where can I get one again?
:D
I'd love to have a Garand; although the would be a caliber I would have to stock. Also a M1 carbine.
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