Another COLT question

[Jon G23]

Don't shoot the messenger here! I was at a gun show today and found a great deal on a Colt 6920. A little later I was talking to a company at the shot that builds tons of AR's, they had like 50 uppers and 20-30 complete guns. The guy there was trying to tell me that COLT is no longer even really Colt and that they are no better in any way than any other brand or maker. There is no Qaulity Control etc etc.....

I am guessing from what I have read here, that COLT is still top dog. Was this guy just plain wrong/misinformed or what?

He also said there is nothing better about Larue Rails vs. YHM rails... "you only pay for the name".

Whats the truth!??

(This is not in hopes of starting any flame war... I just would like to hear the reality.)

Thanks guys!

[Pat_Rogers]

What numbers are involved in "tons of guns"?

He's probably not misinformed, just lying.....
He is trying to sell his stuff and wants your money going into hos pocket, and not someone else's...

[TWR]

The guy was a salesman, possibly from "used car" decent.

I just love it when people try to sell their stuff by saying "it's as good as..."

[Jon G23]

Well... "tons" is in the area of (he says) 200 per year. To me thats a lot..

So if YOU saw a 6920 N.I.B. for $1150, would you grab it and laugh all the way home or what??





What numbers are involved in "tons of guns"?

He's probably not misinformed, just lying.....
He is trying to sell his stuff and wants your money going into hos pocket, and not someone else's...

[Razorhunter]

I was recently in the same boat as you my friend. I had read on literally every forum how great the Colt 6920 was, and then second in line would be LMT.
I read how RRA's and Bushmaster were also next in line behind Colt and LMT.
I had my doubts, because literally every gun dealer (most of which DID NOT carry Colt or LMT), told me that Colt is just a "name" and you will be paying a LOT more for just a name.
THEN, I decided to do a little more research, and find out what exactly one should look for, when buying an AR.
I then proceeded to carefully inspect each brand of weapon, when visiting a number of gun dealers.
What I found was that Colt BY FAR had a MUCH better built weapon than most of the others. I say "most" because I never did get to inspect an LMT, as no one around here carries them.
All you have to do, is pull the BCG out of any brand weapon, and you will SOON see that almost EVERY manufacturer is generating IMPROPERLY staked gas keys, and almost every manufacturer is also IMPROPERLY machining their M4 feedramps. I have a very reputable RRA's dealer right up the street from my house, and there are basically 25 or more RRA's AR15's, and EVERY one of them has this problem.
EVERY Colt I have inspected, has been DONE RIGHT, and absolutely ZERO of these problems exist in the Colts that I inspected. I inspected a LOT of weapons too.
Now some will argue that these problems can be fixed, and gas keys can be properly staked, with a simple staking tool. This is true, but it's up to you if you want to buy what I consider "Sub-Par" weapons from anyone other than Colt.
Although the improper machined M4 feedramps could possibly be fixed as well, it's NOT something I want to deal with, and it really depends on how badly these other manufacturers actually screwed them up in the first place. Many I have seen, have too much metal removed, and cannot really be fixed properly.
COLT is BY FAR MUCH BETTER at quality control, and my 6920 has not had the FIRST jam, FTE, FTF, or any other malfunction to speak of...
There is a reason the military primarily buys Colt.


As for the LMT, I am still trying to get my hands on one, to look it over real good. I'm pretty sure that LMT would be my second choice, and they in fact might be just as good as a Colt, but I can't confirm that personally...

Colt holds it's value much better than ANY other weapon too...

I'm not a "Pro" by any means, but this has been my experience, and I'm VERY VERY glad that I went with a Colt...

[Jon G23]

I can say that after learning what "staking" was..... (on this forum) I today picked up a nice new DPMS BCG and there was ZERO sign of staking!!! ha ha ha

Nice!

Thanks to this forum, I have learned a LOT about these guns.

Jon

[Pat_Rogers]

Jon- i have spent time at the Colt plant as a guest of General Keys, and also spent time at FN.
FWIW, Colt is selling about 8k/ month. FN is probably the same, and when you consider M249, 249Para, MK46 and MK48, M240B/C/G, you'll have to forgive me when i think this guy is smoking crack.

For your second question, yes.

[Sid Post]

What numbers are involved in "tons of guns"?

He's probably not misinformed, just lying.....
He is trying to sell his stuff and wants your money going into hos pocket, and not someone else's...

That's pretty close to my thoughts as well.

Sounds like a "snake oil" salesman pitch to me. I think he would have told you any lie he could think of it he thought you would spend your money at his table at the gun show.

Regarding his comments about the rails, I could see saying a Daniel Defense and Larue Tactical where the same or similar. Comparing either to the lesser brands only works when you don't look at the rails very closely.

[Jon G23]

So you think the guy actually knows that a COLT is better than his DPMS with no staked gas key... and his YHM Rail is not as good as a LaRue Rail??? No... say it can't be so!!!

Yeah..... I think he just wanted to sell his wares. It's a pity.





That's pretty close to my thoughts as well.

Sounds like a "snake oil" salesman pitch to me. I think he would have told you any lie he could think of it he thought you would spend your money at his table at the gun show.

Regarding his comments about the rails, I could see saying a Daniel Defense and Larue Tactical where the same or similar. Comparing either to the lesser brands only works when you don't look at the rails very closely.

[John Fettes]

So if YOU saw a 6920 N.I.B. for $1150, would you grab it...??

Yes, I would. All of my limited experience with Colt's has been good. I'm not a high volume rifle and/or carbine shooter. I don't have any experience with any other brands. I'm sure that some other folks may make good uppers & guns.

You likely need to check the battery in your BS meter as the pointer should have been off of the scale. Some people in some shops just flat out lie to customers. They sell what they have or can get easily. What they cannot get is a "jam-o-matic," and not worth the money, in their opinion.

John

[Pat_Rogers]

The lies flow from many sources. A fed friend reported that he was at a VA PD range that uses BM's. Their armorer told him that Colt makes nothing, and that the Colt barrels are actually bushamster rejects.
Yup, he saw those rejected barrels being put into boxes going right to Colt....

Living proof once more that someone deprived of oxygen at childbirth can still find employment as a PD armorer.......

(Sorry Luke...nothing personal!):D

[Razorhunter]

The lies flow from many sources. A fed friend reported that he was at a VA PD range that uses BM's. Their armorer told him that Colt makes nothing, and that the Colt barrels are actually bushamster rejects.
Yup, he saw those rejected barrels being put into boxes going right to Colt....

Living proof once more that someone deprived of oxygen at childbirth can still find employment as a PD armorer.......

(Sorry Luke...nothing personal!):D




OMG, Now THAT has got to be the craziest bunch of bull I've EVER heard! I mean, I've heard some BIG lies, but this my friend, just takes the cake!!!

[John Fettes]

Sounds like this guy left the lid off of his big bottle of Hoppe's!

John

[AR-15A3]

That guy you talked with is full of BS almost the same thing that happened to me when I was looking to buy a Colt rifle a couple of years ago from my local dealer.

I talked to the lady sales person but I learned later that she was the wife of the store owner and she told me that Colt was not the best anymore, etc, and I told her that I had been using Colt ARs for 33 years and had never ever had any problems.

She then refered me to her husband and they don't have them in stock but he ordered me my Colt 6721 tactical carbine and I waited for six weeks before I got it.

I had six former pre-ban Colts started in '71 with my first SP-1 and now currently have two a 6721 that I customized myself with a Global Tactical Operator mid length gas system, medium contour, Rock Creek barrel and a Colt M16A2 upper half with M16A2 buttstock group on my Match Target HBAR lower, the quality is just the same as my former Colts and also no problems.

I have a LMT Defender 2000 16" barrel with LMT M16 BCG, KAC M4 RAS rails, KAC VFG, KAC 300m BUIS, EOTech 551 (which I got from Grant of G&R Tactical) and LaRue QD EOTech mount, I got the carbine about a year and a half ago and It runs fine so far but I can't tell if it's as durable as my Colt until I use it for several more years.

The minor differences of my LMT with my Colts is that the LMT doesn't have finish under the FSB, the lower receiver has a high shelf which is acting as a sear block (Colt have an unmachined web), LMT have small standard FCG pins, Colt have large .170" dia., the LMT buffer tube have 5 position (current production are 6 position) and finished with gray dry lube with three drain holes in the last three rearmost stock detent.

LMT barrels uses Rock Creek barrel blanks while Colt uses ER Shaw blanks.

Same features of the LMT and Colt are Mil-Spec chrome lined 1/7 barrel, M4 feedramps, correct F type taller FSB for flat tops, shot peened/ MPI bolt (LMT are supplied with Crane O-ring for the extractor) and properly staked carrier key screws, Mil-Spec size buffer tube and M4 buttstock.

Overall the forging flash edges of the LMT is slightly rougher than the Colt at the FSB and upper receiver the quality of the lower receiver are about the same except the LMT has a slightly smoother surface finish while the Colt have a rougher bead blast finish.

My two Colts and LMT groups almost the same for me which is around 2" at 100 yards with my Operator medium contour barrel sometimes slightly smaller than 2" using surplus Canadian SS109 ammo.