Staking the castle nut....Gimme some help.

[billybronco]

It seems like a simple task; however, I'm sure I'll be the one to screw it up and mar something.

1. Lock down the castle nut as tight as possible (we have a wrench).

2. Is there a certain kind of punch that is best?

3. Punch placement..........I'd imagine it best to place the tip so that both the end plate and the nut are struck at the same time.


Oh yeah, speaking of end plates, mine is the Magpul ASAP plate....It's pretty badass.

Thanks to all....

[Ak44]

1. I would screw down the castle nut tight but not tight as possible.

2. A Center punch, I believe bravocompanyusa sells a punch set for a decent price.

3. I would take a look at pictures of staking to get a good idea where you should put the punch.

Good luck :cool:

[KellyTTE]

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=621&xcamp=google&utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=cpc&zmam=33951326&zmas=12&zmac=112&zmap=621

4.00 plus shipping, works great. I usually have to pop it 4-5 times to move enough metal to satisfy me.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/00600-00699/00621.gif

These are also available at Home Depot.

[Bill Bryant]

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=186380-56005-70079&lpage=none

I just staked my Bravo Company parts with this automatic center punch, re-blued the punched spots with Oxpho-Blue from Brownell's, and now have the best-looking, most solid stake job I've ever seen. And it was very easy.

Take your time. The only critical step is placing the first strike of the punch. Thereafter use the punch several times in the same spot until you displace enough steel to satisfy you. Wipe the spot a few times with Oxpho-Blue on a Q-Tip. The rifle will look great, you will have rendered proper obeisance to "THE CHART," and your castle nut will never come off short of taking a Dremel to it.

[Preferred User]

I need to stake a castle nut as well and after a search on this site for Starrett (recommended in the tools sticky) there are 11 pages of results that all mention Starrett automatic punch, which is cool but there are several sizes (18AA, 18A, 18B, 18C). There are 13 pages of results on Brownell's site but only the 18AA & 18A show up for automatic punches.

I looked at Starrett's site and the 18AA & 18A although different sizes appear to use the same tip. I have an 18B in my tool box which of course uses a different tip. Unfortunately Starrett's site does not provide details on the tip size which I guess is the critical factor. (FWIW The 18C is listed as a heavy-duty model "capable of striking a much heavier blow than the other sizes and has a one-piece point and shank which may also be easily resharpened or replaced.")

Can anyone that has an 18AA or 18A measure the tip? Just need to know if my 18B is too big to use.

Or am I silly to spend the money for another Starrett and should I just go with a "regular" punch or the suggested Harbor Freight (where I have had good and bad tool experiences)?

Thanks

[Bill Bryant]

I've got lots of Starrett stuff in my Kennedy, but not a spring-loaded punch, so I can't advise you except to say that I made out just fine with a cheap punch from Lowe's made by General. If I had a Starrett as well I could compare tools, but I don't.

One thing that's easy to do regardless of tool is practice on a piece of scrap steel until you know how to control your punch. That would be wise for anybody unfamiliar with these things.

[Bill Bryant]

Many options are available to the aficianado of fine punches. :p

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=56652&cat=1,43456,43461

http://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-Bearing-Automatic-Center/dp/B00004T7RD

http://wireman.com/Automatic%20Center%20Punch.html

http://www.finelinehair.com/home/mensuration_instruments.htm

[SHIVAN]

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/00600-00699/00621.gif

I use one, but it was silver. :D

[KellyTTE]

I use one, but it was silver. :D

Well I bet. Those homos over at that other site use silver ones..:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Preferred User]

So basically I should not worry too much about the tip size of the punch and just have at it with the 18B I already have. Well it is always fun to have a reason for new tools, but I guess I will save the $$ for now and use what I have. Thanks for the links.

[SHIVAN]

Well I bet. Those homos over at that other site use silver ones..:D:D:D:D:D:D

That's why I left, but I kept the silver one anyway. :D

[KellyTTE]

So basically I should not worry too much about the tip size of the punch and just have at it with the 18B I already have. Well it is always fun to have a reason for new tools, but I guess I will save the $$ for now and use what I have. Thanks for the links.

Exactly. Nuttin to it but do it.


That's why I left, but I kept the silver one anyway.

Well done!

[billybronco]

Thanks everybody

[Eric Cartman]

I used a small drill bit to make a small hole on the receiver end plate, then used a center punch and hammer to displace some metal into the corresponding castle nut slot.

[Eric]

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=18482

[Iraq Ninja]

Someone needs to come up with a castle nut that does not require staking.

[markm]

Well I bet. Those homos over at that other site use silver ones..:D:D:D:D:D:D

And they cut the foam in their hard shell rifle cases so the punch has it's own slot!

[Rock-N-Ruin]

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=621&xcamp=google&utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=cpc&zmam=33951326&zmas=12&zmac=112&zmap=621

4.00 plus shipping, works great. I usually have to pop it 4-5 times to move enough metal to satisfy me.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/00600-00699/00621.gif

These are also available at Home Depot.

I have some extra pieces of this one if anyone wants it.. It will only take a few minor blows to send this one flying in pieces across my weld/fab table.
I staked 1 castle nut and got started on a bolt before it blew.. The solid punches work fine for me...

[KellyTTE]

I have some extra pieces of this one if anyone wants it.. It will only take a few minor blows to send this one flying in pieces across my weld/fab table.
I staked 1 castle nut and got started on a bolt before it blew.. The solid punches work fine for me...

Uh.. I never hit mine and it works just fine. If you have to hit a punch, use a solid one.

[Iraqgunz]

Bllybronco,

I know it's a little late. But, you should have applied a small amount of molybdenum or anti-seize to the threads first. Also there is a torque value for the lower receiver extension carbine is 40 in./lbs. +/- 2.

[billybronco]

thanks gunz.

i'm staking it tomorrow night.

i'll see what i can dig up.

[Scattergun]

Bllybronco,

Also there is a torque value for the lower receiver extension carbine is 40 in./lbs. +/- 2.


I e-mailed Ken Elmore on this

here is what he says

" I use 35 ft/lbs, fixed stock, and 40 ft/lbs, sliding stock.
The only INCH / pound spec on the M16 is the carrier key.

Hope this helps.
Run-N-Gun,

Ken"

[Iraqgunz]

Well that comes straight from the 23&P w/ Change 8. The value for a fixed stock is different which is 35-39 ft.-lbs. Since I thought he was talking about a carbine I didn't mention the rifle value. Feel free to look it up on pages 234-235.


I e-mailed Ken Elmore on this

here is what he says

" I use 35 ft/lbs, fixed stock, and 40 ft/lbs, sliding stock.
The only INCH / pound spec on the M16 is the carrier key.

Hope this helps.
Run-N-Gun,

Ken"

[Don Robison]

I have some extra pieces of this one if anyone wants it.. It will only take a few minor blows to send this one flying in pieces across my weld/fab table.
I staked 1 castle nut and got started on a bolt before it blew.. The solid punches work fine for me...

That's probably because you're not supposed to hit it.

[Surf]

Flathead screwdriver at a slight angle towards the stock end of the rifle between the notches in the castle nut.

[Scattergun]

Well that comes straight from the 23&P w/ Change 8. The value for a fixed stock is different which is 35-39 ft.-lbs. Since I thought he was talking about a carbine I didn't mention the rifle value. Feel free to look it up on pages 234-235.



I am well aware of what it says, but it doesn't make sense. If a fixed stock is 35-39 ft.-lbs why would a sliding stock be 40 inch lbs? That is a big difference. Both receiver extensions are the same OD, same thread. You torque a 1/4-28 bolt more than 40 in-lbs.

[Surf]

Sorry missed the entire torque discussion, and this is far from the first time I have heard it discussed.

I have 2 sets of manuals. One manual is the Army / Air Force maintenance manual [ARMY TM 9-1005-319-23&P / AIR FORCE TO 11W3-5-5-42], circa 1996. The other is the Colt manual No. CM101, 2nd Ed - Rev B.04.

The Army / Air Force manual states torque specs for
Rifle = lower receiver extension to 35-39 ft-lb
Carbine = Using the special tool (item 12, app C), and torque wrench, torque locking nut (5.5) to 40 ± 2 inch pounds.

The Colt Manual states specs as
Rifle = 35-39 lb.-ft.
Carbine / Commando = 38-40 lb.-ft.

I have heard claims of typo's on the 40 inch pounds, in the Mil manuals. If it were 40 inlbs, that would be only 3.3 ftlbs, which in realistic terms would be a hand tightened castle nut. 40 ftlbs also sounds a bit high, but I have little doubt that a properly clamped receiver, extension tube and/or castle nut can achieve such torque specs and suffer no ill effects.

I will also say that I went through the Colt course (Ken Elmore / Bob Gawe) twice and I know that they do stand behind the listed torque values in the Colt manual that goes along with their class. However I don't remember using a torque wrench on a rifle extension tube or castle nut or maybe I was in the head at the time. I use a seat of the pants gauge, which I still use with great success. Even though I use my own internal guestimate torque gauge on tubes / castle nuts, I will say that I am very far above 40 inlbs (3.3 ftlbs) but more than likely not as high as 40 ftlbs.

As a matter of fact I am going to swap mod up a 6920 pretty soon, to include swapping a receiver end plate. I think I will use my seat of the pants method and then try progressively hitting it with a torque wrench to see if I am properly calibrated. :D

[Iraqgunz]

I am just telling you what it says. Since I never use a torque wrench its' a non-issue for me. I think most people that have mechanical ability could probably survive without a torque wrench as well as long as they use common sense.


I am well aware of what it says, but it doesn't make sense. If a fixed stock is 35-39 ft.-lbs why would a sliding stock be 40 inch lbs? That is a big difference. Both receiver extensions are the same OD, same thread. You torque a 1/4-28 bolt more than 40 in-lbs.

[Scattergun]

I think most people that have mechanical ability could probably survive without a torgue wrench as well as long as they use common sense.

Sir,I would agree;)

[Surf]

Well I must be calibrated pretty well. I did my usual torque of the castle nut, then came back and progressively hit it with a torque wrench and adjusted the wrench up in weight. I'll be darned if my own internal calibration is in the 35-40 lbft range. :)