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USMC03
09-30-09, 12:53
On September 26 - 27, I hosted and attended as a student a LMS Defense ( www.lmsdefense.com ) 2 day LMS Defense Carbine 1 Course.


A brief run down of what was covered on each day of class:



Day 1 - Saturday

-Intro and Admin
-Safety and medical brief
-Philosophy and expectations
-Prone Demo
-Zero
-Non-standard response
-Warmup and skill evaluation
-Muzzle offset and core drills
-Post-fight TTP
-Weapon handling fundamentals
-Grip
-Stance
-Superimpose dot
-Aim, touch, aim, press concept
-Carbine manipulation using off hand
-Reloading
-Emergency reloads
-Speed reloads (same conditioned response)
-Tactical Reloads (Skill vs Tactic lecture given)
-Facing movements and muzzle discipline
-Positions (kneeling and combat prone)
-Intermediate distance shooting and holdovers
-Shooting on the Move
-Groucho
-Dry movements
-Live fire movements


Day 2 - Sunday

-Safety and medical brief
-Live fire warmup
-Skill test for retention
-Live fire skill review
-Malfunction TTPs
-Type 1 malfunctions
-Type 3 malfunctions
-Lots of reps ;)
-Incorporate movement off line of attack
-Incorporate communications
-Team fighting
-Cover vs concealment
-Standoff
-Positional shooting
-Movement between cover and individual bounding
-Lateral movement
-Lateral and advancing
-Team skill drills emphasis on these being skill drills and not tactics
-Communication (verbal and circumstantial)
-Lateral slinky bound to the right
-Advancing bounds
-Final team competition
-Class AAR

Weather was great. In the 80’s on both days, very little wind, and no rain, which was nice because it was raining and in the 50’s earlier in the week.

The class was about perfect size, we had a total of 8 students. The class was comprised of two active duty Army guys, two reserve Army guys, two students (one was former USMC, the other had no military or law enforcement background), an active duty Air Force cop, and one full time law enforcement officer who was former USMC as well. 5 of the students were combat vets.

7 of the 8 students had been to other training classes. The college student with no military / law enforcement background, this was his first training class. I’m sure it was a little intimidating for him to be in his first class and the only guy that was not either military and law enforcement and be the only guy that had never been in a training class. This was the first open enrollment class that I have been to where a majority of the class had similar backgrounds and similar skill sets.

I have known John Chapman (Chappy) - Director of Training for www.lmsdefense.com for several years. However, this was my first class with Chappy or LMS Defense.

Every class I attend I learn new material, and revisit skills I have already learned. Every instructor has a piece to the puzzle and the more exposure you can get to different instructors with different backgrounds the more well rounded shooter you will become.

I have taken several different carbine courses over the years. Some were 25 yards and in, some were 50 yards and in, and some have been 200 yards an in. In a large number of these course a majority of the shooting is done at 25 yards and in.

In the LMS Carbine 1 course a majority of our shooting was done between 25 yards and 75 yards. I enjoyed this approach because it was one of the first carbine courses that I have been to where the focus was oriented a little more toward intermediate distances. However there was a fair amount of shooting that was done at 25 yards and closer and from 75 to 100 yards. I enjoyed the focus on intermediate distances.

There was a lot of running in the class which I liked because it got the heart rate up, simulated stress, showed the shooter the effects that stress and elevated heart rate had on his shooting. Even though there was a lot of running involved, shooters who are out of shape or that are injured would have been able to complete the course. Shooters set their own pace for the running (fast paced walking events).

Targets are something that I generally don’t pay much attention to. I was impressed with the LMS targets. Real life pictures with targets that were not always facing you or squared off to you. This made the shooter have to give some consideration as to where the vital zone on the target was.

The class had a lot of exercises that involved competition, both on an individual and team basis. Some newer shooters may be intimidated by competition, but don’t let it scare you away. Competition is always a good thing, especially when you are competing against shooters that are better than you.

Team drills were a blast and a lot of competition was implemented into the team drills. This build comradery amongst the teams and the class as a whole. Winning individuals and winning teams were often awarded with prizes donated by companies who sponsored the class.

The class was fast paced and there were no student or gear issues that slowed things down. 5 of the carbines on the line were BCM (Bravo Company Manufacturing) guns, 2 of the carbines were Daniel Defense carbines, and I’m not sure of the make of the last carbine. No one had any major issues with the exception of a polymer coated steel cased Wolf ammo got stuck in the chamber of one of the guns just before the end of class on training day 2. No major gear issues, the student who had never attended a course before came to class with what most would consider too much gear, but I think by the end of training day 1 he was starting to figure out what he needed and what he didn’t. Like everything in life, there is a learning curve involved, and your first class is the class that you learn the most from. You continue to learn as you taken more training classes, but the first class is like trying to drink from a fire hydrant.

In closing, Chappy was an outstanding instructor and the course had a solid curriculum. I wouldn’t hesitate recommending the LMS Defense Carbine 1 course to a brand new shooter or a more advanced shooter who was looking for a course that had an emphasis on shooting at intermediate distances. I’ll be hosting more LMS Defense courses in the future.




I would like to thank the following companies for their continued supporting of the shooting sports:

www.blueforcegear.com

www.bravocompanyusa.com

www.eotac.com

www.magpul.com

www.primaryweaponsystems.com

www.slip2000.com

www.vickerstactical.com



http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0014copy.jpg


http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0004copy.jpg

adh
09-30-09, 14:35
Great AAR as always USMC03, I am saving for a class. I will likely start with a pistol course: as a civilian I think it is the most likely scenario for me to actually end up with the practical (i.e. real life incident) skills. Will take a carbine class for fun once time and $$ allow.

Great pics too.....you caught the mag dropping on the shooter to your left

ETA: Post some more pics....I know you got 'em :)

USMC03
10-01-09, 11:05
Thanks adh. Good training is always money well spent!!!


DZhitshard rockin' his new BCM 11.5" with BFH barrel along with another student (who's name escapes me right not....sorry, Brother):
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0001copy.jpg

Tactical450 - large human and good dude - during a drill early on training day 1:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0015copy.jpg

USMC03
10-02-09, 12:57
A true stud:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0006copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0011copy.jpg

USMC03
10-05-09, 14:29
A former Marine and current student rockin a BCM mid-length upper during intermediate range drills:

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0058copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0059copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0060copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0061copy.jpg

M4arc
10-05-09, 14:34
Sounds (and looks) like a great class!

USMC03
10-06-09, 17:58
Thanks M4arc....it was a great class!



DZhitshard's buddy (Army SSG) shooting my BCM mid-length with Aimpoint T1 and 3x magnifier:

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0054copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0055copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0056copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0057copy.jpg

USMC03
10-07-09, 13:02
CROZ3212, great dude and solid shooter, runs through a timed drill at the 50 yard line:

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0049copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0050copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0051copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0052copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0053copy.jpg

M4arc
10-07-09, 13:52
Hey USMC03, what's the purpose of mounting the X200 (or is that a X300) on a quick release mount? I recently re-configured my 10.5" LMT and an running an X200 in the same spot as you and would like to know the reason behind a quick release mount.

Thanks.

USMC03
10-07-09, 15:38
Hey USMC03, what's the purpose of mounting the X200 (or is that a X300) on a quick release mount? I recently re-configured my 10.5" LMT and an running an X200 in the same spot as you and would like to know the reason behind a quick release mount.

Thanks.

Hi M4arc,


When I first started putting x200's on long guns a few years ago I was using the origional Tango Down rail pannels which where thick and I needed the extra height provided by the quick release mount. The Surefire factory mount put the on/off switch on the back of the x200 too close to the pannel for me to operate it efficiently.

Now that I'm using Magpul XTM rail pannels height of the factory mount is not an issue.


The other reason for using quick release mount is, when carrying the carbine in a soft case (to and from work and at work) I found that the x200 / x300 were constantly getting turned on inside the bag. I use to carry a small pelican type hard case that I would put my light in when carrying it in a soft case. The throw lever mount made it quick and easy to get the light on an off the rail.

M4arc
10-08-09, 07:31
Jeff - Good to know, thanks!

USMC03
10-08-09, 13:40
M4arc,

No problem........been meaning to drop you a line about some mountain bike stuff after I saw your new Gary Fisher.....but I've been too busy ..... hopefully I'll get around to it in the next week or so.

Take care and be safe



***************************************************************




USMA07 running through a barricade drill at distance:

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0042copy.jpg


http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0043copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0044copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0045copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0046copy.jpg

USMC03
10-12-09, 18:09
f0rza21 running through:


http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0035copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0036copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0037copy.jpg

USMC03
10-13-09, 07:09
Tactical450 on a timed barricade drill ... Great dude, solid shooter, and kept me laughing the entire class ... See you in Vegas, Brother:

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0019copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0020copy-1.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0021copy.jpg

USMC03
10-16-09, 17:51
Something that was noted in the class was that there was a lot of students running simular guns or simular gear.

4 out of 8 students were running the Blue Force Gear SOC-C padded belt system. I ran the SOC-C padded belt in Pat Rogers' class in May and ran the belt again in the LMS class, but this time I had the armor package in the belt.

After wearing armor in several different forms over the last 2 decades, armor usually means added weight, added bulk, added heat, and decrease in comfort.

This wasn't the case with the armor package on the SOC-C belt. The armor package is just slightly thinner than the padding that comes with the belt, I noticed no heat issues and temps were in the 80's both days, I didn't notice any difference in weight (the armor package probably weighs more than the padding that comes with the belt, but when I wore the belt for 2 days, I didn't notice any difference in weight) and I had no comfort issues with the armor package. I actually perfer the belt with the armor package over the belt without the armor package.

All 4 of these students were wearing the Blue Force Gear SOC-C padded belt system:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0012copy.jpg


http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0015copy-1.jpg

A group pic:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0008copy.jpg

mook47
10-18-09, 17:22
Great pics-what forward grip is the first shooter in the first pic using?

spamsammich
10-19-09, 03:18
chopped tango down shorty.

mook47
10-19-09, 04:32
Thanks , I will have to try that it looks good.

USMC03
10-19-09, 15:26
mook47,


spamsandwich hit the nail on the head ...... it's a cut down Tango Down vertical foregrip.

If you look at the last pic I posted (group pic), 2nd guy from the right is also using a cut down Tango Down vertical foregrip.




http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0040copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0041copy.jpg

Josh-L
10-19-09, 17:01
Hey Jeff you gotta pic of what/how/where your pouches are mounted on your belt? I think I'm going to switch to this platform as well but I'm about your size too and worried about room. I'd like to have three Pmags and two pistol but not sure if I can.

USMC03
10-19-09, 17:19
Hey Jeff you gotta pic of what/how/where your pouches are mounted on your belt? I think I'm going to switch to this platform as well but I'm about your size too and worried about room. I'd like to have three Pmags and two pistol but not sure if I can.

Hi Josh,

I don't have any pics from the left side from this class....but I wore the same set up in Pat Rogers' class in May here's a pic:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Pat%20Rogers%202009/DPP_0039-1.jpg

And the belt as it was worn in both the EAG and LMS classes:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Blue%20Force%20Gear/DPP_0003.jpg

Close up of the mag pouches:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Blue%20Force%20Gear/DPP_0006-1.jpg


I wear a size 30" waist .... I was able to fit a triple M4 mag shingle (and stack a double pistol mag pouch and dump pouch) on the belt without an issue.



Hope this helps

USMC03
10-20-09, 14:16
DZ ..... hard as woodpecker lips ...... It was good training with you again, Brother

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0025copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0026copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0027copy.jpg


http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0028copy.jpg


http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0029copy.jpg

USMC03
10-22-09, 14:16
5 out of 8 shooters were running BCM uppers or complete guns (to include a 11.5" BFH and a 16" BFH). No malfunctions in any of the BCM guns (with the exception of a Wolf casing getting stuck inside the chamber on the 2nd to the last drill at the end of training day 2. I thought we were going to break the Magpul CTR and Gunfighter charging handle trying to get the stuck case out of the gun, but we were finally able to free the spent casing with no damage to either the stock or charging handle.

All 5 guns has Gunfighter charging handles in them. I'm really impressed with the new Gunfighter charging handle, I will be switching all of my charging handles over to the Gunfighter charging handle as funds allow:

BCM 16" mid length with BFH barrel:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0002copy-1.jpg


DZhitshard's 11.5" BFH:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0064copy.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0047copy.jpg

DZ's buddy running my 16" mid-length:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0038copy.jpg

Tactical450 running a 14.5" carbine:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0020copy-1.jpg

Another student running Chappy's BCM 16" mid-length:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0001copy-1.jpg


Group photo:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/LMS%20Defense%20Carbine%202009/DPP_0005copy.jpg