View Full Version : My first build: Eleanor
uspshooter
09-30-09, 20:42
Just completed my first build, seriously thinking about buying a couple more lowers so I can build some more. I named her Eleanor:
http://www.thousandwordsimaging.com/ar-ms.jpg
That front grip looks like it came off a Keltec rifle. :)
Eleanor like the Shelby GT500 from Gone in 60seconds?
I'm thinkin "Gone in 60 seconds"
Great lookin rifle
Jay Cunningham
09-30-09, 21:16
uspshooter, welcome to M4C.
To all of our senior members - this is a perfect opportunity for constructive mentoring.
uspshooter, welcome to M4C.
To all of our senior members - this is a perfect opportunity for constructive mentoring.
Indeed!
uspshooter,
Why don't you tell us about the details? What kind of components did you use, and why did you choose the ones you chose?
spamsammich
09-30-09, 21:23
Shoot the shit out of it.
As John Rock said..."Black is Beautiful"
billybronco
09-30-09, 21:28
Is that airsoft?
uspshooter
09-30-09, 21:31
Thanks for the welcome all, Eleanor came from, yes, Gone in 60 seconds. It has an element of class.
As far as the front grip looking like something off a Keltec rifle, I hadn't thought about that until you mentioned it! It does kinda. Actually, came from Brownells, the back side has the pressure switch for the tac light and even though it adds some weight with a 30-round magazine works awesome. It is also comfortable without a magazine in it which keeps the weight down pretty good.
I've already sighted her in, 100% in the 10-ring at 100 yards with iron or the red dot. I obviously prefer the red-dot. I will be purchasing a couple more lowers, I think one in .308 and the other 5.56 I'll build with a 24" bull barrel for longer distance shooting.
Jay
uspshooter
09-30-09, 21:33
Is that airsoft?
Nope, 5.56 NATO
uspshooter
09-30-09, 21:40
Indeed!
uspshooter,
Why don't you tell us about the details? What kind of components did you use, and why did you choose the ones you chose?
This is my first ever build, I bought the lower a year ago, it is a Superior S-15. The rest of the basic rifle I bought as a kit from Blackthorne (or akpartskits.com), their prices are great. The kit had everything except for the lower. I opted for an A3M4 style with A2 front sight, I bought a detachable carry handle (w/large aperture rear sight), front grip, weaver sight riser, and rail which mounted to the bottom of standard front guard. I found the red-dot on clearance and already had the tac light, it's a Surefire 9P.
Finished it off with magazines from Bravocompanyusa.com, they have an awesome deal going right now. 30-round with green followers for $9 apiece. I ordered 10 and had them shipped for less than $100.
The basic rifle took an afternoon as the upper & barrel were already assembled (no worry about headspacing). I've added the other parts slowly over the past few days. Really my decision making process was based on price although not for everything. The only thing I'm not sure about is the upper/barrel. I don't know the manufacturer yet, it is either DPMS or Olympic.
I think that's about it, except that I learned this was about a million times easier than I expected and am ready to build some more. I've been a pistol shooter for a long time but this will change some things I think! :)
Jay
Thanks for the welcome all, Eleanor came from, yes, Gone in 60 seconds.
And circle gets the square...
I think one in .308 and the other 5.56 I'll build with a 24" bull barrel for longer distance shooting.
Jay
Don't forget to add a nice free float rail :D. Nice clean and simple rifle that suits your needs.
uspshooter
09-30-09, 21:49
And circle gets the square...
Don't forget to add a nice free float rail :D. Nice clean and simple rifle that suits your needs.
Yes I'll keep the stock forearm on this one, the others will be free float 4-rail.
I've put a total of about 50 rounds through her and everything seems real tight, I think she is a real shooter. This is for CQB but I do want to try my hand at long distance rifle shooting. I've always liked 25yd+ pistol, I think this will be easier!
Yes I'll keep the stock forearm on this one, the others will be free float 4-rail.
I've put a total of about 50 rounds through her and everything seems real tight, I think she is a real shooter. This is for CQB but I do want to try my hand at long distance rifle shooting. I've always liked 25yd+ pistol, I think this will be easier!
What are your plans for a sling?
uspshooter
09-30-09, 22:04
What are your plans for a sling?
Since this is really a CQB weapon, I'll going for a 2 point sling. The front mount is good to go, need to replace the plate between the lower and the buttstock for mounting on the rear side. That should give plenty of flexibility especially when carrying a sidearm. One other thing I did was tap the lower where the rear takedown detent spring and pin are inserted. The spring is held in with a screw, that goes flush with the back of the lower, instead of the plate. That facilitates removal of the stock without having to worry about that spring disappearing.
MarshallDodge
09-30-09, 22:48
Nice little carbine.
50 rounds is just getting warmed up, get out there and put some serious rounds downrange. :cool:
One other thing I did was tap the lower where the rear takedown detent spring and pin are inserted. The spring is held in with a screw, that goes flush with the back of the lower, instead of the plate. That facilitates removal of the stock without having to worry about that spring disappearing.
What is this screw business all about?? Do you honestly plan on swapping endplates so frequently that losing a spring was worth possibly ruining your lower? Stake your endplate into the castle nut and forget it. Perform upgrades that will matter such as verifying that your chamber is 5.56 and not .223 (regardless of how it is marked) and reaming it to 5.56 if necessary; ensure proper staking on BCG; and determine the usability of a two-point sling with your current vertical fore-thing and that standard FSB mount.
Welcome to the m4 world...we'll get you squared away.
Sgt. R. Lee Ermey will be glad to hear you named your rifle! :D
"Eleanor, gee I think you're swell
And you really do me well
You're my pride and joy"
lyrics by The Turtles...
polymorpheous
10-01-09, 01:19
that is exactly my first build minus the forearm grip. nice stick. how do you like your superior lower?
This is my first ever build, I bought the lower a year ago, it is a Superior S-15. The rest of the basic rifle I bought as a kit from Blackthorne (or akpartskits.com), their prices are great. The kit had everything except for the lower. I opted for an A3M4 style with A2 front sight, I bought a detachable carry handle (w/large aperture rear sight), front grip, weaver sight riser, and rail which mounted to the bottom of standard front guard. I found the red-dot on clearance and already had the tac light, it's a Surefire 9P.
Finished it off with magazines from Bravocompanyusa.com, they have an awesome deal going right now. 30-round with green followers for $9 apiece. I ordered 10 and had them shipped for less than $100.
The basic rifle took an afternoon as the upper & barrel were already assembled (no worry about headspacing). I've added the other parts slowly over the past few days. Really my decision making process was based on price although not for everything. The only thing I'm not sure about is the upper/barrel. I don't know the manufacturer yet, it is either DPMS or Olympic.
I think that's about it, except that I learned this was about a million times easier than I expected and am ready to build some more. I've been a pistol shooter for a long time but this will change some things I think! :)
Jay
Jay,
Thanks for the details, and congrats on getting the whole rifle put together. Also, good work on recognizing the advantages of having a red dot sight and white light on your carbine. You're headed in the right direction.
Now... The surefire is a fine light, but the clearance red-dot on generic riser may not hold zero or survive much shooting. Optics and mounts are definitely "get what you pay for" items. Shoot it till it dies (or you can afford better), and in the meantime be saving and researching for a better replacement. I'd highly recommend getting some sort of back-up rear iron sight on that puppy, especially if you're going to play with the budget red dot for long. On a budget, the Magpul MBUS is the cheapest serviceable rear BUIS I can think of, and being a flip-up it will be out of the way for your shooting with that red dot since the cowitness height may be odd with that optic/riser.
Also be aware that the Blackthorne kits do not have a good reputation at all. Your gun went together and fired rounds with no problems, so that's a good sign, but be aware that these parts are from the lowest end of the quality spectrum, and the probability of having issues is higher because of that. They very well might last you a long time, or something might crap out on your next trip. Who knows. Since you've got the gun,and got it together, just shoot it, learn about the platform, and be saving and learning to make your next one better. There are a lot of options out there, and while it sounds harsh, pretty much all of them are better than Blackthorne. In the meantime, there are things you can do or check to help it along, but that's a thread in and of itself. PlatoCATM touched on a few of the items, HERE (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7355) are some links that might get the noggin' juices flowing on and help guide you to ask the right questions.
I'll admit I'm not a huge fan of the grip/mag carrier, but if you like it so far, more power to you. There is certainly something to be said to keeping a reload on the gun, especially for normal earth person who might need to grab the carbine but isn't going to be wearing any gear, but it has its drawbacks, and different methods (that grip, mag couplers, Redi-Mags, stock pouches) have different drawbacks. Spend some time doing reloads from it, and see how it works for you.
Are you right or left handed? The way it looks to me, it's either going to be hard to operate your light, or hard to operate that grip's mag release. Would it be possible to move your light to the other side of the front sight base? If you're right handed, and gripping the front grip, it might be a little easier to hit that light with your thumb that way.
Oh, and even a basic 2-point carry strap sling on the existing mounts will work for now. You might want to run it through the slot on the stock vs. the loop, but it'll work on the cheap until you decide what you want/need.
Everyone's at their own knowledge level and has their own budget constraints, so no one should be gigging you hard on what you've got so far, so long as you're eager to learn. Welcome aboard.
polymorpheous
10-01-09, 09:40
Jay,
Thanks for the details, and congrats on getting the whole rifle put together. Also, good work on recognizing the advantages of having a red dot sight and white light on your carbine. You're headed in the right direction.
Now... The surefire is a fine light, but the clearance red-dot on generic riser may not hold zero or survive much shooting. Optics and mounts are definitely "get what you pay for" items. Shoot it till it dies (or you can afford better), and in the meantime be saving and researching for a better replacement. I'd highly recommend getting some sort of back-up rear iron sight on that puppy, especially if you're going to play with the budget red dot for long. On a budget, the Magpul MBUS is the cheapest serviceable rear BUIS I can think of, and being a flip-up it will be out of the way for your shooting with that red dot since the cowitness height may be odd with that optic/riser.
Also be aware that the Blackthorne kits do not have a good reputation at all. Your gun went together and fired rounds with no problems, so that's a good sign, but be aware that these parts are from the lowest end of the quality spectrum, and the probability of having issues is higher because of that. They very well might last you a long time, or something might crap out on your next trip. Who knows. Since you've got the gun,and got it together, just shoot it, learn about the platform, and be saving and learning to make your next one better. There are a lot of options out there, and while it sounds harsh, pretty much all of them are better than Blackthorne. In the meantime, there are things you can do or check to help it along, but that's a thread in and of itself. PlatoCATM touched on a few of the items, HERE (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7355) are some links that might get the noggin' juices flowing on and help guide you to ask the right questions.
I'll admit I'm not a huge fan of the grip/mag carrier, but if you like it so far, more power to you. There is certainly something to be said to keeping a reload on the gun, especially for normal earth person who might need to grab the carbine but isn't going to be wearing any gear, but it has its drawbacks, and different methods (that grip, mag couplers, Redi-Mags, stock pouches) have different drawbacks. Spend some time doing reloads from it, and see how it works for you.
Are you right or left handed? The way it looks to me, it's either going to be hard to operate your light, or hard to operate that grip's mag release. Would it be possible to move your light to the other side of the front sight base? If you're right handed, and gripping the front grip, it might be a little easier to hit that light with your thumb that way.
Oh, and even a basic 2-point carry strap sling on the existing mounts will work for now. You might want to run it through the slot on the stock vs. the loop, but it'll work on the cheap until you decide what you want/need.
Everyone's at their own knowledge level and has their own budget constraints, so no one should be gigging you hard on what you've got so far, so long as you're eager to learn. Welcome aboard.
i hate to hijack the thread but...
i really wish i had a welcome greeting like this on my first build. instead i got berated about the lower quality parts, (the only ones available post election), i bought. (only my barrel is blackthorne) i argued that i built a plinker that i was just going to shoot the hell out of and learn the platform. i plan on other builds and i have learned much since i put together my 1st. the snobbery turned me off from this forum for a while. your words of encouragement, LOKNLOD, are good to hear. thanks from this new builder! ;)
uspshooter
10-01-09, 13:02
Thanks all for the comments, I'll be sure to check out the links as, like I said, this is my first, certainly is not my last build!
A little background about me, I worked in public safety for 20 years, primarily as a 911 dispatcher, but also volunteer firefighter/medic and volunteer/reserve deputy. I am a certified NRA Pistol Instructor and have been involved with firearms training for several police departments. I have been a pistol shooter for a long time and haven't used a rifle since I was a kid and occasionally shot a Ruger 10/22. Due to medical issues I am no longer in that line of work. I always wanted to try IDPA but I not sure yet if I can physically do it. I may try in the future. I also shoot trap and have a custom built Remington 870 that suffices for that task. (It is a home defense weapon, not a trap gun.)
So here are some thoughts about my AR. First, the Superior lower seems okay. It has an adjustment screw (under the pistol grip) to adjust the trigger preset without having an adjustable trigger according to Superior. Unfortunately, to put the grip on, you have to put the screw up all the way. Seems to limit "adjustability" if you ask me. The trigger pull is very clean though. There is no play. The only difficulty I encountered is the fit between the upper and lower. The front pivot pin went in perfectly. The back takedown pin is VERY tight when the upper is installed. (It goes in fine without the upper) I believe this to be a Blackthorne upper issue and not an issue with the lower. I believe it is very well built and would buy more. In fact I may be buying a couple more very soon.
I work with other AR enthusiasts, one is a retired police officer and has built many AR's. He recomended Blackthorne as good stuff. My purchase from them was based on his recommendation, I know he's built several from their kits. I do not like the fact that they can't tell you the manufacturer of the parts. The most they will allow is that the uppers are made by LMT or LAR and the barrels are made by Mossberg or Wilson. Blackthorne got a "Blackeye" not long ago by taking orders they didn't have stock for. Buy the kit off their website for $400 or go to gunbroker.com and buy the very same kit for $650. And you'd get the gunbroker kit. The website kit was on a perpetual "backorder" status. They changed their website purchase rules so that if they couldn't ship, they would not even accept the order. They almost lost their merchant account with the credit card company because of all the chargebacks they were getting. The Blackthorne products shipped fast I had them in my hands in just a few days.
If I were to do it again, which I will, I will keep the flattop but put a 4-rail gas block with flip up sights front and rear. I may remove the front sight and do this anyway on this particular gun. Again, this may add variability to sighting but unless you have an A2 front sight and A2 carry handle I don't think you'll get away from that. Since this is really more of a CQB weapon and not a long distance shooter I feel pretty confident that I can put the carry handle on and use iron sights and they will be close enough. I can shoot 100 yards with the removable A2 style handle and the A2 front sight. It will be very interesting to see how things change over time. In any case, this rifle outshoots me right now.
I do not adding removable parts between the gun and the optics (like risers), every removable/adjustable piece adds inaccuracy variables and each has its own contribution to loss of sighting. The red-dot is not a $1200 ACOG so on the relative scale is an inexpensive sight. I didn't buy from cheaper than dirt to get this one, it was on super-sale at a local sporting goods store.
I'm right handed but can shoot ambidextrously with rifle and shotgun. As far as the switch for the tac light, if I shoot left handed I can put it on the back side of the front grip and it works just fine. I primarily shoot right handed and it does work better on the side of the front grip. A fine trade-off I believe as I don't anticipate shooting left handed very often. I wear glasses and am quite blind in my right eye without them (I can see quite well in my left eye without glasses) so if it's the middle of the night and the AR is what I grab it is very possible that I'll be using it left handed. Either way it is quite functional.
I do like the front vertical grip that holds a spare magazine. I don't like having exposed feed lips on magazines, it's easy to knock them out of whack and that will cause feeding issues. In pistol shooting if you have misfeeds or stovepiping my first recommendation is to replace the magazine. This forearm grip will protect the open end of the magazine which will pay off the first time I don't misfeed a round. I am not a fan of taping magazines together or connecting them together with a bracket for this reason.
So those are some of my thoughts, again thank you all for your comments, they will affect my decision making in future builds.
gruntinhusaybah
10-01-09, 14:02
you said this is for CQB?
are you talking home defense? Or in a duty role for LE?
If it's going to be either of those, you need to do a bit of reading around here, find "the chart" and figure out what you need to replace/fix with your gun. I am almost positive that your BCG is not staked properly, and you probably have the wrong spring and insert for your extractor(should be a 5 coil and blk insert)
I don't recognize your RDS, it's not an ACOG or Aimpoint, so I personally would be careful using that in a SD or LE role.
That grip/magholderthingamagiger should be ditches ASAP, that is asking for trouble IMO, if you want to be able to do very fast reloads with the mag on your gun look into the redi-mag/mod(blueforcegear.com sells the redi mod)
and if your light is a knock off of a quality brand, ditch it for a Surefire or a Streamlight TLR-1(115$)
just some of my observations.
Welcome aboard! and to the amazing world of the AR!
For your next build, look inot a mid length
uspshooter
10-01-09, 22:38
Nope, not for duty or LE use, I'm not in that game any more. This is purely for home defense and taking out and shooting.
For duty use, I would have done much more research and planning beforehand. For example, my duty weapon for a while was a Springfield 1911. I upgraded to an H&K USP. I have not used any firearm that matches the H&K for having the right feel for me. From the first shot I fell in love and would not use anything else in a sidearm. I still have my USP and there is not enough money in the world (even after Obama smokes the printing presses) to convince me to get rid of it.
I do plan on building an AR that will be something that could be used for LE duty.
As far as the forearm grip is concerned, I like it and that's what counts, I'll check out the redi-mag. If I find that I no longer like that grip, it's rail mounted and easily removed and replaced with something else. :)
For my next AR, I want to build something for longer distance shooting, 20 or 24" HBAR flavor. If I wanted a true long distance shooter I wouldn't be looking at 5.56 but maybe a .308 which is also on my list to build.
Thanks for your comments, every day I know there's that much more I need to learn, and let's face it, that is half the fun!
I know some guys that have 300$ rifles with 1500$ leopoulds on them and they get their panties in a wad when they find out i purchased a aimpoint for 500$ then a magnifier for 500$. I have heard everything from plan to spend at least half on your optic as you did your rifle to spend more on your optic than you did your rifle. Anyways I found your rds http://www.truglo.com/content/products/firearm/red_dots/reddot_dual.asp they make watches too? I actually found more positive reviews than bad ones, good luck with it I hope it serves you well.
polymorpheous
10-02-09, 07:17
I know some guys that have 300$ rifles with 1500$ leopoulds on them and they get their panties in a wad when they find out i purchased a aimpoint for 500$ then a magnifier for 500$. I have heard everything from plan to spend at least half on your optic as you did your rifle to spend more on your optic than you did your rifle. Anyways I found your rds http://www.truglo.com/content/products/firearm/red_dots/reddot_dual.asp they make watches too? I actually found more positive reviews than bad ones, good luck with it I hope it serves you well.
i have the same red dot on my plinker. (i've got the nearly the same plinker.) the battery dies fast and the aluminium is soft.:( it does hold zero, (even after re mounted), and the dot is sharp and round.:) at 5 moa it is a bit big for me as it tends to completely cover the target at 100yrds. inexpensive, but it definitely does it's job well.;)
Littlelebowski
10-02-09, 10:07
My recommendations are:
-lose the cheap red dot and get an Aimpoint Micro H1. 5 years of battery life, bombproof
construction. I had the same red dot you have, it could not be trusted to hold a zero or even turn
on.
-lose the forward grip/mag holder. Work on shooting your support hand all the way out with your
thumb pointed forward at the target like you should or are doing with your pistol stance.
-if you must have a spare mag on the rifle, get a Redi-Mag (http://www.redi-mag.com/Shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1&idcategory=5)
Otherwise, your most pressing need is a carbine class.
eekks.
- Blackthorne kit
- TruGlo red dot
- Weird mag holder/VFG thing
Other than those things...
If the rifle runs good for you then that would be good enough for me. I'd double check the staking on the gas key and upgrade the extractor with an O-ring. I'd also recommend getting rid of that red dot and replacing it with a quality iron site. I'd recommend Daniel Defense for fixed and if you are on a budget Magpul folding rear. I'd also recommend getting rid of whatever that mag holder thing is. If you NEED an extra magazine on your gun, get a redi-mag. Couldn't tell what type of light you had on there, but cheap stuff will work everytime you use except the time you really, really need it to. Don't count on cheap shit to when your life is at stake. There is a reason people who use guns for a living don't run that crap.
Otherwise nice build, looks nice, and welcome to the club!
bobby.lamberth
10-05-09, 23:33
What is this screw business all about?? Do you honestly plan on swapping endplates so frequently that losing a spring was worth possibly ruining your lower? Stake your endplate into the castle nut and forget it. Perform upgrades that will matter such as verifying that your chamber is 5.56 and not .223 (regardless of how it is marked) and reaming it to 5.56 if necessary; ensure proper staking on BCG; and determine the usability of a two-point sling with your current vertical fore-thing and that standard FSB mount.
Welcome to the m4 world...we'll get you squared away.
I Love When CATM Tells Us 'Gucci Gear' Guys How It Is...HAHA...For Real Though, It's Nice To Have People With Technical Knowledge Helping Us Out
I Love When CATM Tells Us 'Gucci Gear' Guys How It Is...HAHA...For Real Though, It's Nice To Have People With Technical Knowledge Helping Us Out
So How Is It 'Gucci Gear' Guy?
Do you have anything relevant to add to this conversation or do you just want to make generalizations and take jabs? Or am I misreading you?
Jay Cunningham
10-06-09, 20:06
I will remind members that this is a technical forum.
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