View Full Version : BoTac's KZ Line
randyman_ar
10-03-09, 15:48
Anyone have any experience or feedback with this product line. Particularly slings, light mounts and vfg's. Am on a tight budget looking for best bang for the buck.
I would contact M4c mod Buck. He would know the most about KZ. Most of us are just going to rattle off the same Internet hearsay that floods the Internet. Based on my experiences with them most of it seems to be BS.
Do a search on Customer Service and Botach, then decide for yourself whether the price difference is worth it. My personal experience is limited to 2 orders: (1) just fine delivery of name brand items, and (2) one wrong item (also name brand) delivered, for which they sent me a return label. I will post back here whether or not that is resolved successfully.
I can't speak to personal experience with Botach's KZ brand, since I haven't seen anything they offer which I don't mind spending 25% more for--to get a Troy, BFG, etc.
I have limited experience with Botach's KZ line. I have been using their convertible sling system for about three months and really like it http://www.botachtactical.com/kzs.html. Other sling systems that I currently own are the MS2's and Vtac's.
The other KZ item I've also been using is the off-set light mount. It seems to be holding up well. I prefer off-set mounts on the top rail of my rifles and have used Vtac light mounts (with Streamlight Polytacs), my fiance likes her Vltor/G2 and SF Scout light. However, I can't use the Vtacs on my gas GPU's gas block. With that said, I've been happy with the KZ.
I've been dealing with Botach for the past 10 years and have not had any issues with internet purchases (been lucky I guess). Lately, I just drop by when I need to pick something up.
Streamlight's VFG and 1" light mount ring are Klez Zion aka KZ gear (I have both). Really nice, well machined and high quality but if I had to deal with Botach to get them, I'd pass.
randyman_ar
10-03-09, 21:20
Thanks for the replies. So far it looks like lots of bad experiences with BoTac. But no real issues with KZ's quality. Right?
randyman_ar
10-03-09, 21:21
Streamlight's VFG and 1" light mount ring are Klez Zion aka KZ gear (I have both). Really nice, well machined and high quality but if I had to deal with Botach to get them, I'd pass.
I thought KZ was owned by BoTac. Can't remember where I read that though.
seekretsqrl
10-04-09, 03:08
Contact Buck...I ordered an Aimpoint T-1 for my duty rifle and it came with the KZ mount. I have used it at the range, thrown it in my squad (cased) and have had no issues with it. Are there more expensive mounts out there? The answer is always yes. Botach was reliable for me between ordering and delivery. Buck will have the answers for you.
RogerinTPA
10-04-09, 09:47
I must be fortunate or lucky. I've had no problems with Botach over the years. I had one order issue, and they corrected it in a timely manner.
I ordered once from them, didn't have any problems. I guess I'll stay clear now. I got the KZ offset light mount also. No issues with it.
Google Blackhawk and KZ...they're related stuff IIRC.
I have a buddy that has used a KZ rail. He said there's nothing special about it and he "should have just bought something more reputable and field tested."
I can't share any personal experiences b/c I'll never support Botach or anything Botach related ever again. I've been burned by them twice and I'd rather spend my money with quality vendors than to get sucked in by their prices.
I have ordered from Botach maybe 10 times over the coarse of 10 years. Never had a problem. And I'm one of those guys that is unlucky with almost anything. Something gun related that has the best rep for durability or reliability would be the opposite for me. Real frustrating.:confused:
But I never had a problem with Botach, in fact just the opposite. I have placed two separate orders for four Aimpoint T1's and they always came in a timely manner. However both times, one of the Aimpoints would have tiny imperfections on the finish. (I'm a little anal, especially on a new $600 optic.) Both times I called Botach, they picked up my call on the first try. With no questions asked, they sent me UPS tags to ship the item back to them without postage on my end. Both times, when Botach received the T1's back, I recieved a followup call asking what was wrong with them. I pointed out the area on the T1 with the finish imperfection and they said OK, new one is on the way. Both times they replaced the Aimpoints to my satisfaction in a timely manner.
Years ago, I ordered a Surefire handguard light (I forget the model number). When I received it, it was bulkier and heavier than I anticipated. I called Botach, sent the item back and they refunded me with no problems. Their customer service has always been polite and helpful. I must be in bizzaro world where everything is opposite for me compared to everyone else.
But on the topic of KZ products, one order of two T1's was a package deal that included KZ co-witness mounts. They seem to be of quality construction and finish but the design was not my cup of tea. I have Larue and ADM mounts which I prefer the design better. I gave one of the KZ mounts to a friend on the sheriff's dept to use on his patrol carbine. He has reported no problems, and I ask about it occassionly.
Littlelebowski
10-05-09, 10:59
Ordered something that was on back order, asked for a refund, everything happened as it should.
I've ordered twice from them with no problems. Once in Aug 2008 and once in Sept 2009.
Second order had an item out of stock, it was removed from the order and I was never charged for the out of stock item.
Both times they have been prompt with shipment and when I asked about the out of stock item via email they replied via email within 6 minutes.
I will do business with them again.
I've bought lots of stuff from Botach without any trouble, except sometimes later shipping then I was expecting.
KZ stuff... I use their Aimpoint Micro absolute cowitness mount and it is nicely made. I also have one of the KZ vertical foregrips, shotgun sling swivels that goes over the tube, and an offset flashlight mount. It all is quality stuff.
I've got no dog in this fight but what started out as a thread asking about a piece/brand of equipment, turned into a dogpile on the vendor.
if I was the OP I'd be a little miffed about the hijack...
I've got no dog in this fight but what started out as a thread asking about a piece/brand of equipment, turned into a dogpile on the vendor.
if I was the OP I'd be a little miffed about the hijack...
You would be more miffed if someone had reason to believe that you would get taken advantage of, and they didn't bother to tell you.
I understand that Botach is making an effort to correct the issues, and I appreciate that. I'll make a small order with them in the future based off the comments of someone who I trust on this board, and see if things have changed.
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj41/leeindy/guns/LeeIndysAR12.jpg
i got the kz stubby front fore grip and its well made nice aluminum and no machineing marks. i also oredered the ADM mount for the aimpoint from them. also got the kz qd sling swivel and all are good products that came in reasonable time. all you have to do is check stock before ordering. The KZ line is good to go and botach has come along way recently
Welcome to the paty Dan. The company that you work for has dug a very deep hole for you. Botach's reputation is probably the worst and wide spread that I have seen of any "small" company. I have ordered from Botach in the past and had problems. Recently, I ordered a couple of things and the orders were shipped very fast. You have good prices on a lot of stuff, but Botach has f****d so many people that it will take you a long time to repair that damage. I hope that you provide more than lip service to make things right.
As far as KZ goes, I ordered a sling (from Botach) with the mash (sp) hook and it is well made, with good materials, but lacking refinements. That's all I know about KZ.
Hi everyone, my name is Dan and I am a rep at Botach Tactical.
I have read through some complaints on this forum, and I want to let you know that I am here to help you with past orders, lost orders, mishandled orders, and other general questions.
We at Botach are committed to rectifying problems people have had in the past with our orders.
I stand by my word to help you.
Please email me at dan@botachtactical.net
I am here and eager to handle your orders/questions.
-Dan
BotachTactical
01-14-10, 18:46
Welcome to the paty Dan. The company that you work for has dug a very deep hole for you. Botach's reputation is probably the worst and wide spread that I have seen of any "small" company. I have ordered from Botach in the past and had problems. Recently, I ordered a couple of things and the orders were shipped very fast. You have good prices on a lot of stuff, but Botach has f****d so many people that it will take you a long time to repair that damage. I hope that you provide more than lip service to make things right.
As far as KZ goes, I ordered a sling (from Botach) with the mash (sp) hook and it is well made, with good materials, but lacking refinements. That's all I know about KZ.
Thanks,
While our company has a less than stellar reputation, the salient point I am making is that I do care about customers and assisting them to expedite orders and have questions answered.
-Dan
lawusmc0844
01-14-10, 20:34
My very first order with Botach was for KZ brand QD swivels. Being a small order, they came in fast and I did have one swivel that did not want to go into any QD hole but now I either cannot find that one or it does fit. Despite that I am glad they were about $4.00 each and I may try larger KZ stuff in the future.
Dan, as other posters have said, it's gonna be a long way back up. Best of luck. Now for my experience with KZ and BoTach. Last year I purchased a (Gasp!)SIG 556. Ordered a turn down tactical charging handle made by KZ from BoTach. Good service to the house, but upon installation and operation in my 556, the new KZ charging handle PROMPTLY tore the rubber dust skirt on my 556 clean out! Needless to say, I was pissed and voiced my displeasure on the 556 forum as a "Warning! Do Not Use!" post. Soon after I had posted, an individual posted that he was the KZ rep(Buck, I think was his name) and that he would reemberse me the cost of repair to my rifle. Sent the rifle back to SIG and they repaired the dust skirt for $75.00. BoTach did refund my money on the POS charging handle roughly 2 weeks after they got it back. Sent a copy of the repair receipt from SIG to "Buck" for reembersement and, after several unanswered attempts to contact, gave up as a lesson learned. Promptly sold the 556. No more propietary design rifles for me! You are a slave to the manufacture for parts and service. Not a good thing if we go to TEOTWAWKI(And I mean Socialism, not Zombies). I for one will NEVER purchase any KZ product again! POS charging handle was a piss poor Chinese knock-off and I should be whipped for buying the damn thing(and BoTach for selling untested crap!) I will save my hard earned coins for LaRue or BCM or some other company of a Professional caliber. BoTach, I will pass from now on!
Ofc.JL:mad:
Since a Botach rep actually posted in this thread, I just ordered 100 CR123 batteries from Botach. Let's see how it works out.
I have a Aimpoint H1 mounted on the KZ lower 1/3 co-witness mount. So far, it has held its zero and been rock solid for about 1000+ rounds. I don't have any problems with it and consider their product line fairly average. If I were to get another H1/T1 I would probably buy from Daniel Defense. My friend got the KZ VFG and it is nicely machined and I borrowed it (shot drills with it) and it is solid for the price. I would still prefer to get somthing from Troy, Larue, or Tango Down.
About the origins of the KZ line...this is just from my own research, but go onto the website for makosecurity.com and look at their stuff, then compare the stuff on Botach. It is virtually the same thing. Especially the machined parts like my H1 mount and that VFG. I had a 5x magnifier I got from Mako less than a year ago that developed a problem with the adhesive around the internal optics. I called up Mako, they had me send it back, and eventually (1 month long wait) replaced it for free with a 7x which I don't love because the eye relief sucks. During this process, I spoke to the customer service guy at Mako and he told me that both his company and Botach get their stuff from the same manufacturer in Israel (Fab Defense). I have not independently verified this. He also complained that Botach buys the stuff in such bulk and sells it for so cheap that they can't compete. I got the KZ Aimpoint mount for about $40 when they were running their 15% on all products promotion. The same/similar item is selling for $100+ at Mako.
Hello Guy's, I recently placed an order from BoTach, and I have to report that everything was great. They replied to my all E-mails requesting info., & shipped my package within a few hours of my placing the order. I went via UPS 2nd Day, as the 10% discount paid for half the shipping fee. I had my Streamlight (C4) TLR-1 & KZ "Stubby" VFG Package Deal within 2 days of placing the order. The only discrepancy I noted was they didn't include an invoice / shipping receipt in the package. It's really not a big issue, but I'd prefer to receive one along with my order. ( Although, I was prompted to print one out when I placed the order online, so maybe that's just how they do it. ) I TOTALLY satisfied with both the TLR-1 & the KZ Stubby Fore-Grip. It allows me to swap the TLR-1 back & forth between a Mossberg 930 & Colt 6920 without a great deal of difficulty. Well, that's my 2 cents.
Best Regards, dpast32
I've made probably 4 orders over the last year with good results.
My last purchase was a KZ single point sling mount that slips around the receiver extension. It has worked well and looks better than other similar designs on the market.
I've placed at least 10 orders through BoTact and only had a problem with order #7, and that that was the fault of the CS rep. I was notified that it was in stock when I placed the order, and recieved notification that it had been shipped, but it had not. I attempted to contact them on the phone, and left several messages when it did not arrive, but she never returned my calls. Finally I did catch her by phone and she admitteded that the items were backordered. My credit card had already been charged and it was 2 months later that I finally cancelled the order and a refund was issued. I have bought from them since, but I make certain now that the item is not in backorder. :(
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