View Full Version : 4th Generation Glock
I had an opportunity to handle the new 4th generation Glock 22. These are my observations.
New reversible mag release. Larger rectangular face does not appear to be extended.
New recoil spring arrangement. It looks like a dual captured spring setup. It will not retrofit older G22s.
Frame with texturing similar to current RTF frames, but not as sharp. Frame is higher in the area that contacts the web of your hand. The distance between the trigger and the rear of the frame is noticeably shorter. Same profile as current Glock frames but slightly smaller in the rear. There are two (medium and large) backstraps that go over the rear area of the frame. These are held in by the trigger housing pin.
Standard slide serrations.
No pics allowed. Not official yet.
Mike
Very interesting. Especially the dual captured spring part. Thanks for the heads up.
New reversible mag release. Larger rectangular face does not appear to be extended.
Will this allow use of standard (read: old) magazines?
Will this allow use of standard (read: old) magazines?
Old mags should be fine.
RAM Engineer
10-06-09, 19:01
Will this allow use of standard (read: old) magazines?
I hope that TangoDown/Larry Vickers work their magic on this new mag release. I have theirs on all my Glocks.
MAP, what is your opinion on the new backstraps? Well done (like M&P or HK P30) or half-baked?
What was your overall impression? Did Glock appear to get it right?
What was your overall impression? Did Glock appear to get it right?
The ergonomics on the gun are the same, only smaller. It has the same Glock "feel" It is, imo, an incremental improvement. If you love the way a current Glock feels you'll probably like the 4th generation. If you hate the way a Glock feels the 4th generation won't change your opinion.
In the end, the biggest improvement may be the recoil spring setup for .40 shooters.
Mike
Awesome Mike, thanks for bringing us the news on the new Glocks.
Hey MAP, one more quick question; what about the slide release (lock), was that any different or still the same?
I can hardly wait to flop down my cash for one! :D
I have a theory that this new Glock, with its reconfigurable backstrap setup and the new recoil spring is going to be Glock's bid to capture the DHS/ICE pistol contract.
RAM Engineer
10-06-09, 21:33
My theory is that they are just doing it to get me to buy a .40 S&W caliber pistol.;)
Hey MAP, one more quick question; what about the slide release (lock), was that any different or still the same?
I can hardly wait to flop down my cash for one! :D
I think it's the same.
Bummer, I was hoping for ambidextrous slide release and mag release.
Thanks for the info! I am really looking forward to seeing some pics and checking it out when they become available.
The Dumb Gun Collector
10-06-09, 22:58
Interesting. It might be time to buy a Glock again.
How much in your opinion can the smaller backstraps decrease the size of the grip?
I ask because I have been trying desperately to get my wife to switch from a DA/SA Walther P99 to a G19, but they are just too big for her hands.
I would love to be able to pull off commonality of parts, mag, holsters, etc. for our concealed carry rigs.
If I can get it to fit I will buy two 19's as soon as they become available.
variablebinary
10-07-09, 00:05
GRRRR. PICS!!!
I'm liking the sound of this. I've been wanting a G22 again.
shooter521
10-07-09, 07:56
A friend handled one of the new 4th Gen guns at the recent AUSA show. He sent me this report:
_____________________________
Big sign that said Glock 4th Generation coming in 2010. I asked the production manager about this and he was quite open about it. It's a slightly less aggressive RTF. It will have three swappable grip backstraps that hinge in from the base where the lanyard hole is and that is held in at the pin in the backstrap. He said the current plan is to provide two pins for the different width backstraps. He also said it will have a user swappable magazine release along with an ambidextrous option. Basically, you could swap the sides of the mag release, so they'll probably be making use of the gap/block in the front of the mags. They will "bring back" the normal slide serrations for the 4th gen, and only the RTF2 frames will have the partly circular scallop type of serrations.
I asked him about why they still haven't put the G36 slide on a G30SF frame, and he said they've "heard about it" but that was about all they'd commit to.
He said the RTF2 GLOCK 19s and 23s will be shipping this month for LEO contracts and should be in stores by/in November.
Jay Cunningham
10-07-09, 09:02
Thanks for the info; I'm personally looking forward to this.
Littlelebowski
10-07-09, 10:12
They will "bring back" the normal slide serrations for the 4th gen, and only the RTF2 frames will have the partly circular scallop type of serrations.
Praise the lord!
I'm holding out for a new G19 of this sort to compliment my G19 on my person.
Littlelebowski
10-07-09, 10:17
Surprised there isn't an ambi slide release.
will this 4th generation pistol completely replace the older style 3rd generation?
Some of us like the current G17 and G19s
RAM Engineer
10-07-09, 10:55
Why continue with the "RTF" model roll out when you have these coming?
I'm hoping for one of these "gen 4" guns in a G-19 & G-17, but I'll probably get a G-22 as well, since I've never found a .40 that I liked enough to keep.
Bummer, I was hoping for ambidextrous slide release and mag release.
I cannot comment much on this gun due to an NDA, but as a general rule "button-style" mag releases are better off being reversible than ambidextrous. Ambi buttons often get pressed inadvertently by holsters, seatbelts, etc.
will this 4th generation pistol completely replace the older style 3rd generation?
Some of us like the current G17 and G19s
I suspect they will replace the current 3rd Gen and RTF models because I think it would be too expensive to run different production lines & molds over any length of time.
But I imagine the 3rd Gen guns will be available for some time as production and parts wind down.
By MAP's description if you like the current guns, as I do, you'll love this one.
How much in your opinion can the smaller backstraps decrease the size of the grip?
I ask because I have been trying desperately to get my wife to switch from a DA/SA Walther P99 to a G19, but they are just too big for her hands.
I would love to be able to pull off commonality of parts, mag, holsters, etc. for our concealed carry rigs.
If I can get it to fit I will buy two 19's as soon as they become available.
The big difference in the grip size that I noticed was distance between the trigger and rear of frame. The grip circumference may be smaller. It definitely feels like a Glock.
Mike
RogerinTPA
10-07-09, 15:19
Thanks for your insight Mike. I always hated the grip angle on Glocks. Hopefully, this design change will be more ergonomic to my hand. The changeable backstraps, has peaked my interest considerably in purchasing a G19 and or 17.:cool:
A friend handled one of the new 4th Gen guns at the recent AUSA show. He sent me this report:
_____________________________
.......It will have three swappable grip backstraps that hinge in from the base where the lanyard hole is and that is held in at the pin in the backstrap. He said the current plan is to provide two pins for the different width backstraps.
.......
Great info. This makes me wonder what Crimson Trace might be able to make in terms of a new model of Lasergrips that is more securely mounted to the frame and offers a lower profile than the current LG-617 and LG-619.
Anyone heard anything about any efforts in this area?
I cannot comment much on this gun due to an NDA, but as a general rule "button-style" mag releases are better off being reversible than ambidextrous. Ambi buttons often get pressed inadvertently by holsters, seatbelts, etc.
Glock has introduced ambidextrous magazine releases before. However, my understanding was that Glock's ambi-mag release for the G21SF was designed very quickly, had numerous small parts, and was prone to breakage. The reversible design should also be more durable.
I'll reserve judgment until I see pics, might be good, might not.
Did they keep finger groves?
"I cannot comment much on this gun due to an NDA, but as a general rule "button-style" mag releases are better off being reversible than ambidextrous. Ambi buttons often get pressed inadvertently by holsters, seatbelts, etc."
Very True, Todd. I have grown so used to my ambi-paddle mag release that I was hoping for something similar on the new Glock.
I suspect they will replace the current 3rd Gen and RTF models because I think it would be too expensive to run different production lines & molds over any length of time.
But I imagine the 3rd Gen guns will be available for some time as production and parts wind down.
I imagine they might also shift their marketing push. The newer guns might be promoted heavily in the US while the Gen3's get pushed more aggressively in other foreign or developing markets, especially agency or institutional sales. Those markets don't tend to be handgunning cultures, so the end-users might be less particular about interchangeable backstraps, especially if they offer the Gen3's at a good price.
Not having seen the new model, I don't know how many new parts it has, but it is reasonable to assume that most innards may be interchangeable with the older variants. Presumptuous, I know, but so far it is logical from a manufacturing and inventory perspective. We'll probably know more once the GenIV is publicly unveiled.
Like everyone else, I am excited about the Gen4 and hope they come out with a Model 19 variant.
I imagine they might also shift their marketing push. The newer guns might be promoted heavily in the US while the Gen3's get pushed more aggressively in other foreign or developing markets, especially agency or institutional sales. Those markets don't tend to be handgunning cultures, so the end-users might be less particular about interchangeable backstraps, especially if they offer the Gen3's at a good price.
Not having seen the new model, I don't know how many new parts it has, but it is reasonable to assume that most innards may be interchangeable with the older variants. Presumptuous, I know, but so far it is logical from a manufacturing and inventory perspective. We'll probably know more once the GenIV is publicly unveiled.
Like everyone else, I am excited about the Gen4 and hope they come out with a Model 19 variant.
I'd be inclined to agree; and I think this is the reason that it doesn't appear that a ambi slide release is going to be on the menu.
I missed if it was asked already, but are the finger grooves still there? They never bothered me, but I know alot of people hate them.
I missed if it was asked already, but are the finger grooves still there? They never bothered me, but I know alot of people hate them.
I can't see them dropping the finger grooves.
The newer guns might be promoted heavily in the US while the Gen3's get pushed more aggressively in other foreign or developing markets, especially agency or institutional sales. Those markets don't tend to be handgunning cultures, so the end-users might be less particular about interchangeable backstraps, especially if they offer the Gen3's at a good price.
Actually, the single largest factor that influenced Glock's development of the Gen4 was probably European markets. Glock has been having a hellacious time winning LE/mil contracts in Europe because almost every procurement requires more modern ergonomics like interchangeable backstraps and ambi/reversible controls.
RAM Engineer
10-08-09, 17:43
Actually, the single largest factor that influenced Glock's development of the Gen4 was probably European markets. Glock has been having a hellacious time winning LE/mil contracts in Europe because almost every procurement requires more modern ergonomics like interchangeable backstraps and ambi/reversible controls.
Wow, that's going to bruise some internet forum pride right there. Some people think that gun companies have nothing better to do than read forums for their market research. :p
John_Wayne777
10-08-09, 18:48
It shouldn't come as a surprise that Glock doesn't care about what most of us think. Most gun companies don't. ;)
Any idea on the release date?
Any idea on the release date?
I don't know for sure. I'm guessing 12/09 or 1/10.
Mike
I don't know for sure. I'm guessing 12/09 or 1/10.
Mike
Thanks!
It shouldn't come as a surprise that Glock doesn't care about what most of us think. Most gun companies don't. ;)
Speak for yourself. :p
SWATcop556
10-08-09, 23:25
As far a I'm concerned you can dress up the outside of the new Glock but if the 22 won't shoot with a light then I have no use for it. My 9mm can get it done.
I am anxious to see the new 17/19 in this configurations.
As far a I'm concerned you can dress up the outside of the new Glock but if the 22 won't shoot with a light then I have no use for it. My 9mm can get it done.
I am anxious to see the new 17/19 in this configurations.
I think the new recoil spring set up is designed to cure the issues with the current G22s. When asked if the new spring setup was going to be used on the 4th generation G17 the Glock reps opinion was that "if its not broke don't fix it."
Mike
If they didn't get rid of the front finger grooves it's of no interest to me.
For me the finger grooves are not that big a deal but given a choice i would also prefer not to have them on the Glocks or the newer HK pistols.
Did they keep finger groves?
I missed if it was asked already, but are the finger grooves still there? They never bothered me, but I know alot of people hate them.
If they didn't get rid of the front finger grooves it's of no interest to me.
For me the finger grooves are not that big a deal but given a choice i would also prefer not to have them on the Glocks or the newer HK pistols.
Why don't was ask MAP?
Hey MAP, did it still have the finger grooves? Thanks.
I think it had the finger groves.
I think it had the finger groves.
Thank you sir.
RAM Engineer
10-10-09, 16:54
re: the crescent shaped slide serrations on the RTF Glocks.
I just picked up my G-17 RTF and I think they are a noticeable improvement over the previous style serrations. I couldn't care less how they look. They could be shaped like hearts and unicorns and if they gave me a better grip on the slide, I'd go with it.
It's too bad that the Gen 4 guns will not have them.
Jason
olds442tyguy
10-10-09, 21:23
I'm glad they are sticking with the original serrations, but I wish they would add some up front too.
Will they have the Glock rail, or a Picatinny rail?? I'm hoping it's M1913.
+1 RAM. I thought the scallops a functional improvement also. I'm reasonably sure it's a bearing surface thing with one's digits.
Finger grooves I can go either or. I like the Gen 3's just fine. Most interesting IMO is whether the captured recoil spring setup can run reliably with or without white lights and can it improve the durability of the gun (.40 cal).
I'm glad they are sticking with the original serrations, but I wish they would add some up front too.
Will they have the Glock rail, or a Picatinny rail?? I'm hoping it's M1913.
It's my understanding that Glock stopped using the Picatinny rail on the G21SF and went back to the Glock rail.
Changeable grip arches: easily accomplished and retained by the polymer pin. Imagine an SF frame with the permanent arch, add one to get standard size and the other to gain a size large.
Recoil spring: similar to a G30 or G27 recoil spring, feels different (have not fired it yet), unique to the new frame/slide and not intended to retrofit. This gun is reported to have over a thousand rounds through it, with the Surefire X200 in place. Others to be tested.
Reversible magazine release: slightly larger square surface. Magazines now feature notches on both sides and the center. #9 follower and #2 stamped on lower right of window side.
Slide grasping grooves: return to standard type. Thankfully!
Frame texture: less aggressive then the recent RTF frames. Think squares flattened on top. Gripping well with pressure from the sides or at an angle, but not painful.
Accessory rail: standard rail. This one with an X200 on it, others to be tested.
Glock night sights: retained by a screw, longer construction to keep the active portion away from the screw hole. Riveted style gone....thank god.
Slide: some reinforcement in the area of the slide that is just under the breech face.
Delivery should start after the first of the year, given usualy produciton and ordering limitations.
I love Glock. Why would they change the design of the pistol if it is/was and will always be "PERFECTION?" :D
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
I like the G19 a lot and maybe the changes to the gun will interest me enough to pick one up (again).
C4
Changeable grip arches: easily accomplished and retained by the polymer pin. Imagine an SF frame with the permanent arch, add one to get standard size and the other to gain a size large.
Recoil spring: similar to a G30 or G27 recoil spring, feels different (have not fired it yet), unique to the new frame/slide and not intended to retrofit. This gun is reported to have over a thousand rounds through it, with the Surefire X200 in place. Others to be tested.
Reversible magazine release: slightly larger square surface. Magazines now feature notches on both sides and the center. #9 follower and #2 stamped on lower right of window side.
Slide grasping grooves: return to standard type. Thankfully!
Frame texture: less aggressive then the recent RTF frames. Think squares flattened on top. Gripping well with pressure from the sides or at an angle, but not painful.
Accessory rail: standard rail. This one with an X200 on it, others to be tested.
Glock night sights: retained by a screw, longer construction to keep the active portion away from the screw hole. Riveted style gone....thank god.
Slide: some reinforcement in the area of the slide that is just under the breech face.
Delivery should start after the first of the year, given usualy produciton and ordering limitations.
Thanks for the additional info Hat Creek! I'm really excited about the new Glocks and can't wait to get my grubby paws on one!
I love Glock. Why would they change the design of the pistol if it is/was and will always be "PERFECTION?" :D
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
I like the G19 a lot and maybe the changes to the gun will interest me enough to pick one up (again).
C4
PERFECTION is about to be PERFECTED!
By the way Mr. Glock, if you're reading this feel free to use that slogan in your ads. I only require a new 4th Generation G17 as payment :)
PERFECTION is about to be PERFECTED!
By the way Mr. Glock, if you're reading this feel free to use that slogan in your ads. I only require a new 4th Generation G17 as payment :)
How can that be? It was already "perfect."
Until I see a Crimson Trace grip that works with the Glock as good as it does with the M&P, all bets are off on the GEN 4 being of any value.
C4
How can that be? It was already "perfect."
Until I see a Crimson Trace grip that works with the Glock as good as it does with the M&P, all bets are off on the GEN 4 being of any value.
C4
The new LG-417s show a ton of promise but they're still not available. If they work well or if CT can come up with an M&P style grip for the new Glocks then you'll be out of excuses :p
Cueball1897
10-13-09, 16:52
I'm excited about the 4th Gen as long as they don't have the RTF grip, felt like I was gripping a porcupine.
RAM Engineer
10-13-09, 18:53
I'd like the RTF as an option on the Gen 4 like they are now with the Gen 3. I'd also prefer the newer RTF slide serrations, but I'm sure I'm in the minority ("minority" as in, people who've actually used them and not just looked at them on the interweb ;) )
I'd like the RTF as an option on the Gen 4 like they are now with the Gen 3. I'd also prefer the newer RTF slide serrations, but I'm sure I'm in the minority ("minority" as in, people who've actually used them and not just looked at them on the interweb ;) )
I'd be in another minority. Those who've fired the currently available RTF in a variety of weather conditions, various types of gloves, and various hand situations (wet, slippery with soap and/or oil, etc.).
My vocabulary may be limited in the number of words I can come up with to describe how little I think of those goofy grooves.
Fortunately, the old style is back on my sample of the pistol to debut at SHOT next year.
Glock as released a promo poster on facebook for the new 4th Gen!
The new slogan?
The Next Generation of Perfection
I like it! :D
FlyAndFight
10-14-09, 14:57
There's also an article on the Gen 4 Glock in current issue of "Handguns" magazine. Mine arrived yesterday and I haven't had a chance to peruse the article yet...
decodeddiesel
10-14-09, 16:00
This is the G19 I will purchase.
nofkneem73
10-14-09, 21:22
I dont care what people call them.......Block/Glock.......though I dont own one, there is one in my future. Parts are everywhere and available anytime......its like the Ford Ranger of handguns. You chose well.
Great info. This makes me wonder what Crimson Trace might be able to make in terms of a new model of Lasergrips that is more securely mounted to the frame and offers a lower profile than the current LG-617 and LG-619.
Anyone heard anything about any efforts in this area?
This is what I've been hoping for. Similar to the S&W m&p.
its like the Ford Ranger of handguns.
That is more of a negative.
Great info. This makes me wonder what Crimson Trace might be able to make in terms of a new model of Lasergrips that is more securely mounted to the frame and offers a lower profile than the current LG-617 and LG-619.
Anyone heard anything about any efforts in this area?
I'm sure somebody here knows but can't say. That's provided that Glock has made a sample or prototype available to CT so that they can begin work.
But if I was a betting man I would put money on CT having a new model out shortly after the 4th Gen Glocks hit the street.
decodeddiesel
10-15-09, 12:03
I'm sure somebody here knows but can't say. That's provided that Glock has made a sample or prototype available to CT so that they can begin work.
But if I was a betting man I would put money on CT having a new model out shortly after the 4th Gen Glocks hit the street.
I would agree. This is going to be big for Glock and Glock customers and I would imaging CT wants to get in on this as well.
any pics of this thing yet?! I'm goin nuts here! :D
any pics of this thing yet?! I'm goin nuts here! :D
No pictures that I've seen and it's driving me nuts too. I'm sure we'll see something soon.
No pictures that I've seen and it's driving me nuts too. I'm sure we'll see something soon.
I can't remember seeing anyone so excited for a new gun. I asked to take some pics, they said no.
Mike
I can't remember seeing anyone so excited for a new gun. I asked to take some pics, they said no.
Mike
i really love glocks.
i'm really curious what this thing is going to be like... :D
Jay Cunningham
10-15-09, 21:44
I am sure to buy one.
I am sure to buy one.
i do still need a glock 10mm..... :D
Yea - will have to get one. Still have my Gen 1. Maybe have to go for the triple(or quadrupple) crown and have one of each.
variablebinary
10-16-09, 03:44
Argh, no pics yet?
I can't remember seeing anyone so excited for a new gun. I asked to take some pics, they said no.
Mike
I'm excited to see one and the changes they've made. Whether or not I get one (or three) remains to be seen but I am holding off, for now, purchasing a G34 until I see what Glock has in store for the new generation.
RAM Engineer
10-17-09, 13:47
I'm becoming more and more fond of the Apple method of product development: Don't announce it until it's ready to ship!
Sure there will be rumors and spy-shots and what have you, but nothing official from the company (usually) until it's "go-time". The only reason they announced the iPhone early was because the FCC website leaked info on it.
decodeddiesel
10-17-09, 14:20
I'm becoming more and more fond of the Apple method of product development: Don't announce it until it's ready to ship!
Sure there will be rumors and spy-shots and what have you, but nothing official from the company (usually) until it's "go-time". The only reason they announced the iPhone early was because the FCC website leaked info on it.
I agree, however I think in the firearms industry the pre-release hype is what keeps the majority of these companies going.
how are they going to be keeping the finger grooves? might as well just buy the old 17 and send it to robar.
I'm hoping to go to an armorer's course next month. Maybe they'll have some art...or free samples.
I agree, however I think in the firearms industry the pre-release hype is what keeps the majority of these companies going.
If that's the case I think it's backfiring over on GT. The asshats over there have already dismissed the new 4th Gens as they're 2nd and 3rd gens are perfect as they are and don't need any changes :rolleyes:
decodeddiesel
10-18-09, 09:04
Hence the reason I avoid GT worse than TOS.
I broke into Glock's factory ala Mission Impossible Tom Cruise style and took this picture of the 4th generation G19 with the interchangeable backstrap.
It was tough to take pictures while suspending upside down.
:D
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/g191.jpg
The Dumb Gun Collector
10-18-09, 09:14
BOO! BOO!
Could we please lock this thread? I see money leaving a bank account and the wife making me hit the couch for a night or two.
Don't have a Glock, want a Glock, gonna' get a Glock. Love my HK's but time to own a Glock.
Fu** ya'll. It's your fault. You sleep on the couch and get bitched at.
Business_Casual
10-19-09, 12:10
Sleep on the couch? No way! You need a strong pimp hand!
And by that I mean buy her flowers or something she wants first...
:cool:
M_P
Pimp hand! lol. Wouldn't work. She's in great shape, a good shot, and I made the mistake of teaching her lots of unarmed combat; which we still practice. She would have no prob. surprising me with a rear naked choke and laughing as I passed out. Or just a surprise elbow to the face. I would never be able to get a good nights sleep again.
I asked her in a joking manner for a little rear naked the other day. She just gave me one of those wife looks.
I applied some caulk the other day around a window. When she got home I asked her if she would like to see my caulk, pronounced cock. Didn't laugh at this either.
Well, I got to handle it and I came away impressed. As stated above, reversible mag release, mags are double notched now but old mags will work for righties. Basically a G22SF with additional back straps giving you three different sizes. More models to follow. No RTF texture but a new pattern, No RTF curved serrations on the slide-back to straight serrations, still has the finger grooves. I WANT ONE! I think this pistol is really going to affect the purchasing decisions of a lot of departments/agencies.
variablebinary
10-20-09, 22:42
Saw an ad for the Gen4 Glocks and a gun rag today. No pics, just more of a coming soon
Have to admit, I am keen to see what they've done
Well, I got to handle it and I came away impressed. As stated above, reversible mag release, mags are double notched now but old mags will work for righties. Basically a G22SF with additional back straps giving you three different sizes. More models to follow. No RTF texture but a new pattern, No RTF curved serrations on the slide-back to straight serrations, still has the finger grooves. I WANT ONE! I think this pistol is really going to affect the purchasing decisions of a lot of departments/agencies.
Were you able to handle the gun with the different back straps? If so how did it feel?
Thanks
Yes, I did. I snapped on both of the larger backstraps. I have small hands and thought the "bare" configuration fit me well. I think those with large hands and those that did not like the fit of the original Glock will find that the Gen IV fits them well. The big unveiling will be at SHOT.
whiterabbit05
10-20-09, 23:33
^How dare you not take pictures.
I was lucky to get to finger fumble it, photos were out of the question. I imagine peoples jobs would have been on the line if a photo got out.
Business_Casual
10-21-09, 08:18
I imagine peoples jobs would have been on the line if a photo got out.
Yes, for God's sake don't do any promotional work that might be effective. Just make sure you have a jumbled, inconsistent ad campaign in rifle magazines and promise new developments at SHOT every year.
No offense meant to you, but I sometimes think Glock's marketing department is secretly working for HK or S&W.
M_P
Yes, for God's sake don't do any promotional work that might be effective. Just make sure you have a jumbled, inconsistent ad campaign in rifle magazines and promise new developments at SHOT every year.
No offense meant to you, but I sometimes think Glock's marketing department is secretly working for HK or S&W.
M_P
this would imply that glock actually HAS a marketing department. lol
RAM Engineer
10-22-09, 09:39
I nominate one of the Gen 4 G-22s for ToddG's next endurance test. WITH an X300 light mounted! ;)
I nominate one of the Gen 4 G-22s for ToddG's next endurance test. WITH an X300 light mounted! ;)
I love you guys ...
I nominate myself. With factory supplied ammunition of course :D
I nominate one of the Gen 4 G-22s for ToddG's next endurance test. WITH an X300 light mounted! ;)
While this would be the most useful test, I would also like to see some kind of torture test on the 19 to make sure they didn't screw anything up in the redesign.
reversible mag release
Don't understand this one at all. Mag release is in a great spot for me as a lefty. An ambi slide release is what would help speed me up a bit.
While there is nothing wrong with a single-sided mag release, if you are left handed and like to use your thumb or right handed and want to use your index finger, an ambi release is better. I'm guessing they didn't go with an ambi slide release because the correct technique is to rack the slide during reloads, and since glocks never malfunction why would you need to lock the slide back.;)
Has anybody heard about glocks shotgun? magazine feed to boot
If you look at where the trigger bar is on a Glock relative to the frame (internally) and how little extra room is in there after you account for a loaded magazine, it would be pretty hard to make an ambi slide release.
Changeable grip arches: easily accomplished and retained by the polymer pin. Imagine an SF frame with the permanent arch, add one to get standard size and the other to gain a size large.
Recoil spring: similar to a G30 or G27 recoil spring, feels different (have not fired it yet), unique to the new frame/slide and not intended to retrofit. This gun is reported to have over a thousand rounds through it, with the Surefire X200 in place. Others to be tested.
Reversible magazine release: slightly larger square surface. Magazines now feature notches on both sides and the center. #9 follower and #2 stamped on lower right of window side.
Slide grasping grooves: return to standard type. Thankfully!
Frame texture: less aggressive then the recent RTF frames. Think squares flattened on top. Gripping well with pressure from the sides or at an angle, but not painful.
Accessory rail: standard rail. This one with an X200 on it, others to be tested.
Glock night sights: retained by a screw, longer construction to keep the active portion away from the screw hole. Riveted style gone....thank god.
Slide: some reinforcement in the area of the slide that is just under the breech face.
Delivery should start after the first of the year, given usualy produciton and ordering limitations.
Will the old holsters work on the new guns?
I'd like to see that endurance test.
Will the old holsters work on the new guns?
On a small sample of holsters that I tried, fit was the same.
Some LE agencies are shooting it with light attached and using their regular duty holsters.
It appears the Advantage Arms units will not fit properly, due to some changes in the recoil spring assembly.
I was wondering about that slot cut into the front of the current #8 mags of the G22. So that explains my wild a$$ guess.
olds442tyguy
10-25-09, 18:30
Will someone please tell them to offer FDE frames? Pretty please!
I'd still like to see a M1913 rail instead. The more rail slots the better IMO.
On a small sample of holsters that I tried, fit was the same.
Some LE agencies are shooting it with light attached and using their regular duty holsters.
It appears the Advantage Arms units will not fit properly, due to some changes in the recoil spring assembly.
That was my next question. Not fit the new G22 and 17/19 or just the new G22? Guess the old guns will have to stay until Advantage Arms catches up.
When I was talking the Glock people I was told that there is little to no market interest in FDE or OD frames in the current line. From that I expect colored options to be a long way down the road, if at all. The Gen IV was designed for department/agency orders and they like black. Gen IV G22 first, probably followed by a G23 as most of the internal improvements are geared around the .40S&W and these are the .40's that departments buy.
If you look at where the trigger bar is on a Glock relative to the frame (internally) and how little extra room is in there after you account for a loaded magazine, it would be pretty hard to make an ambi slide release.
Point taken.
Maybe Glock should copy this aspect of the M&P so they have room for ambi slide releases, then S&W could sue them.
Come full circle.
;)
Will someone please tell them to offer FDE frames? Pretty please!
I'd still like to see a M1913 rail instead. The more rail slots the better IMO.
If I remember correctly Glock has dropped the M1913 rail from the G21SF completely and only making them with the standard Glock rail now.
The M1913 rail was in response to the now-defunct Joint Combat Pistol solicitation.
Outlander Systems
10-26-09, 17:45
If I remember correctly Glock has dropped the M1913 rail from the G21SF completely and only making them with the standard Glock rail now.
Why, for God's sake, why?
Are they trying to make me keep sending money to the Germans?
Jay Cunningham
10-26-09, 20:02
I don't understand why having an M1913 spec rail on a pistol is a big deal. The only thing that you are going to mount there is a light or a laser (or combo) and it is going to index on the same slot every time anyway. The "Glock rail" is fine by me. The only possible benefit I can see is being able to swap an X300 (or similar light) from a carbine rail to a pistol rail. For me this is moot because I keep a separate light on my carbine, my pistol and also a hand held.
RAM Engineer
10-26-09, 21:42
I agree with The Katar. Their 1913 rail design and their ambi mag safety were poorly implemented and I'm glad they are going away.
Great----getting a gen3 G22 issued in January and they come out with this.....I'm gonna be buying one for myself I guess :)
olds442tyguy
11-07-09, 17:53
Wow. The guys on 10-8 are saying the back straps aren't interchangeable, they're add ons. IE, You add a spacer to the back of the grip. From what I can gather it attaches and functions like the Crimson Trace laser grip for Glocks.
I hope this isn't true. If so, that's incredibly sad. So now instead of people having trouble with the grip angle, they'll just have even more trouble with the size.
whiterabbit05
11-07-09, 18:02
That would be terribly lame...
RogerinTPA
11-07-09, 19:20
Wow. The guys on 10-8 are saying the back straps aren't interchangeable, they're add ons. IE, You add a spacer to the back of the grip. From what I can gather it attaches and functions like the Crimson Trace laser grip for Glocks.
I hope this isn't true. If so, that's incredibly sad. So now instead of people having trouble with the grip angle, they'll just have even more trouble with the size.
Sad indeed. That would be a major fail, not to have a modular back strap, at least for me.
Picture a Glock 22 with a very narrow grip, that hollow are behind the magwell much smaller or eliminated (I didn't flip it over and look inside, sorry). The "larger" size backstraps snap over the rear backstrap area and then pin in place.
RAM Engineer
11-07-09, 19:53
Wow. The guys on 10-8 are saying the back straps aren't interchangeable, they're add ons. IE, You add a spacer to the back of the grip. From what I can gather it attaches and functions like the Crimson Trace laser grip for Glocks.
I hope this isn't true. If so, that's incredibly sad. So now instead of people having trouble with the grip angle, they'll just have even more trouble with the size.
The guys on 10-8 are saying exactly what everyone on here and LF.net that have handled one have been saying for the last month: They shrank the grip, which is size small. You add size "medium" backstrap and you are back to the size of the current glock grips. You add size "large" backstrap and you have a slightly larger grip. This is not news.
How can that be? It was already "perfect."
Until I see a Crimson Trace grip that works with the Glock as good as it does with the M&P, all bets are off on the GEN 4 being of any value.
C4
Not to mention that, since it's already "perfect," I'm not expecting that they'll change the other stuff I have never been able to love about Glocks: the dual-bladed trigger/safety, the odd grip angle, and the relatively snappy handling of recoil compared to newer designs like the M&P. I don't have anything against Glocks in the sense that they are effective and reliable pistols. But progress marches on, and while I could train myself to use a Glock despite its quirks, I'd much prefer to just use and enjoy the design enhancements being built into newer designs like the H&K and M&P.
I'll be happy to pick one up if it fits my hand. Always been the one drawback of Glocks. I like shooting them, I shoot them well, but I have to adjust my grip too much to ever purchase one. Anxiously awaiting a pitcure/range report. Hopefully at the same time!
olds442tyguy
11-08-09, 13:22
The guys on 10-8 are saying exactly what everyone on here and LF.net that have handled one have been saying for the last month: They shrank the grip, which is size small. You add size "medium" backstrap and you are back to the size of the current glock grips. You add size "large" backstrap and you have a slightly larger grip. This is not news.
My aplogogies? I had painted a different picture in my mind. Now I'm picturing something more like a Taurus 24/7 grip with some un-streamlined little plastic plates that get pinned on the back, and I'm not liking it. I'm hoping the gun fits me better than a G19 with out the add on straps. The way Glock went about it just sounds like the wrong answer to the right question to me. JMO.
The way Glock went about it just sounds like the wrong answer to the right question to me. JMO.
Base that on experience with the new gun? It might be more effective if you handle one, and you'll know better. Establishing an opinion by guess is not useful.
I've handled the new gun and the system is simple and solid.
RAM Engineer
11-08-09, 18:34
It wouldn't be the internet without people complaining about something they've not seen or held. :D
not only could crimson trace make a laser grip about like the medium grip, but there could be variations with different grip angles. There are lots of aftermarket possibilities here.:cool:
olds442tyguy
11-08-09, 20:00
Base that on experience with the new gun? It might be more effective if you handle one, and you'll know better. Establishing an opinion by guess is not useful.
I've handled the new gun and the system is simple and solid.
Can you show me where I gave a personal opinion on how it handles? I looked and couldn't find that specific post.
I remember opining that I'd prefer inset back straps instead of external additions, but that's my subjective opinion that won't change regardless of ergonomic benefits.
However, I simply think changing the grip is a better idea than just adding to it, especially on a pistol that's second biggest ergonomic complaint is grip size. EG; It's stated the smallest grip size is the same as the SF. So if you wanted a flat 1911 like grip angle on a G21, you would have to add more meat to an already beefy grip. I have normal size hands and the G21SF is already borderline to big for me.
I will hold off my final judgement until I've held one, but based on what has been shared, these are concerns of mine, and I'm sorry if me expanding on them offended anyone.
It wouldn't be the internet without people complaining about something they've not seen or held. :D
Kind of like you're currently doing in the SCAR thread? :rolleyes: I know you have it out for me, but please refrain from voicing your hostilities in a technical thread.
RAM Engineer
11-08-09, 20:28
It's stated the smallest grip size is the same as the SF. So if you wanted a flat 1911 like grip angle on a G21, you would have to add more meat to an already beefy grip. I have normal size hands and the G21SF is already borderline to big for me.
I agree with you there regarding the 21SF. If that's the smallest they can go on their .45, I don't anticipating this new system swaying me towards one. I owned a 21SF and I didn't like it much at all (although most of my issue was with the ambi-mag release, which is now OBE). S&W and HK beat them in this area by sacrificing 3 rounds of capacity to obtain a more universally adaptable grip.
Speaking of HK, I remember everyone complaining about the "Spider-Man Grips" when they were first shown. Not how they felt (because they hadn't gripped them yet), but how they LOOKED. You don't hear that so much now that they are in wide release.
As for the SCAR, I don't have a problem with black colored SCAR rifles, except for selfish reasons. I'd rather FN focus on getting the SCAR-H out in the stores than limited edition color variants.
I had painted a different picture in my mind...
The way Glock went about it just sounds like the wrong answer to the right question to me. JMO.
I had a different picture in my mind too. I envisioned more of a replacable backstrap like the M&P or maybe something close to the P30.
It sounds like I really have no idea what it looks like or how they plan to pull this off so I won't even form an opinion until after I see and check one out in person. Who knows, it might be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Or it might be an excuse to buy a P30.
Has anyone who has handled the new Glock noticed if the frame seems to be reinforced? I read that they designed the new 22's to actually support the .40cal better. Just curious if anyone noticed a difference or if its b.s.
Is the mating surface of the adjustable back strap flat or concave? Based on previous responses I gather it is the later.
Has anyone who has handled the new Glock noticed if the frame seems to be reinforced? I read that they designed the new 22's to actually support the .40cal better. Just curious if anyone noticed a difference or if its b.s.
it would be really neat if you could mount a light on the 40's without making them malfunction..
Has anyone who has handled the new Glock noticed if the frame seems to be reinforced? I read that they designed the new 22's to actually support the .40cal better. Just curious if anyone noticed a difference or if its b.s.
My understanding from the instructor at an armorer's course is that the primary improvement for the .40 cal issue is the improved recoil spring assembly.
IIRC the big issue was that the lights can inhibit frame flex (causing other problems leading to the malfs), so reinforcing the frame would be counter-intuitive.
SWATcop556
11-13-09, 18:03
it would be really neat if you could mount a light on the 40's without making them malfunction..
Just finished a recert on my armorers cert and they talked about the new Gen 4 quite a bit. The test sample at Glock has around 20,000 through it with a TLR1 and a X300 mounted. They changed out the recoil spring at 10,000 just because and both Glock reps are stating no malfunctions.
This was also the first armorer class I've been to where Glock acknowledged that there was a problems with the G22 and a mounted light. They stated that the reason for the delay for the fix was they wanted to make sure they got it right and fixed the problem instead of just a bandaid for the problem like "change your springs."
I for one look forward to the new version. I'm concerned that they also said the changes will be applied to the 17 and 19. If it's not broke.....
Law Enforcement orders are being filled and should be seeing delivery around the end of Dec. Civilian orders should begin to be filled around March 2010.
SWATcop556
11-13-09, 18:08
My understanding from the instructor at an armorer's course is that the primary improvement for the .40 cal issue is the improved recoil spring assembly.
IIRC the big issue was that the lights can inhibit frame flex (causing other problems leading to the malfs), so reinforcing the frame would be counter-intuitive.
No changes to the frame were mentioned. The new recoil spring is designed to slow the slide velocity and rely less on frame flex in the 40 which causes most of the light related malfunctions.
New slides as well to contain the new spring assembly also. The receiver should be the same.
I was also told that the standard frame texture will be offered on the Gen 4 so people don't have to conceal the RTF which eats clothing.
No changes to the frame were mentioned. The new recoil spring is designed to slow the slide velocity and rely less on frame flex in the 40 which causes most of the light related malfunctions.
New slides as well to contain the new spring assembly also. The receiver should be the same.
I was also told that the standard frame texture will be offered on the Gen 4 so people don't have to conceal the RTF which eats clothing.
sounds like the Gen 4 slide/spring is not going to be compatible with the Gen 3 17/22. do you know if the adjustable grip is standard or optional as the RTF is an option.
thx.
SWATcop556
11-13-09, 19:35
sounds like the Gen 4 slide/spring is not going to be compatible with the Gen 3 17/22. do you know if the adjustable grip is standard or optional as the RTF is an option.
thx.
You are correct that the new spring assemblies will not fit in the older Gen 3 slides.
From what I gathered the new Gen 4 frame will replace the Gen 3.
Again just what I could gather from lunch with the two Glock guys during my armorers class.
RAM Engineer
11-13-09, 19:45
I was also told that the standard frame texture will be offered on the Gen 4 so people don't have to conceal the RTF which eats clothing.
So Gen4 will be available in standard AND RTF2 textures?
You are correct that the new spring assemblies will not fit in the older Gen 3 slides.
From what I gathered the new Gen 4 frame will replace the Gen 3.
Again just what I could gather from lunch with the two Glock guys during my armorers class.
What he said.
I'm not sure how its not compatible, but it sounds like the points where the new spring will interface with the frame or the barrel lugs might be different, thus prohibiting interchanging the springs.
I also recall that the springs were supposed to last about 10,000 rounds, so thats a big plus.
"bastardized ambi safety"
Huh? It is a Glock, there has never been an external safety.
SWATcop556
11-13-09, 23:23
So Gen4 will be available in standard AND RTF2 textures?
That's the information I was given, but it was also prefaced by them saying that it wouldn't be the first time Glock changed something at the last minute.
From what was described (I wish they would have had a sample but they didn't) the new spring has a wider and thicker end and the guiderod interfaces with the slide slightly different than the Gen 3 so they are not interchangable.
I'm just glad they scrapped the bastardized ambi safety.
SWATcop556
11-14-09, 13:18
"bastardized ambi safety"
Huh? It is a Glock, there has never been an external safety.
Correct. I meant to refer to the ambi mag release. That's what I get for bouncing back and forth between a Glock and 1911 thread. Thanks for the catch.
"bastardized ambi safety" Huh? It is a Glock, there has never been an external safety.
Actually, they have made external safety guns. Not often seen CONUS, though.
Actually, they have made external safety guns. Not often seen CONUS, though.
Correct but I know someone that has one of the only G22S's in the country! He also has a Gen I G19 too!
RAM Engineer
11-14-09, 15:56
Correct but I know someone that has one of the only G22S's in the country! He also has a Gen I G19 too!
Pictures or you're a liar!;)
SWATcop556
11-14-09, 16:42
Sounds like the gauntlet has been thrown down. I'm in for pics too. :cool:
RAM Engineer
11-14-09, 16:54
I for one look forward to the new version. I'm concerned that they also said the changes will be applied to the 17 and 19. If it's not broke.....
I agree about the 17 & 19, but recoil spring assemblies that are purported to last 10,000 rounds would be nice, regardless of the caliber, though.
What is the recommended replacement interval for recoil spring assemblies in the HK P30 and S&W M&P 9mm?
SWATcop556
11-14-09, 17:39
I agree about the 17 & 19, but recoil spring assemblies that are purported to last 10,000 rounds would be nice, regardless of the caliber, though.
What is the recommended replacement interval for recoil spring assemblies in the HK P30 and S&W M&P 9mm?
My understanding is that the 10,000 rounds was for the test and not the recommended interval to change them out. Glock said they have a "if its not broke" policy on all of their parts except the recoil spring, which is around every 3-3500 rounds.
I check out all my parts twice a year and change the recoil springs around the 2500 mark (.357 sig).
Not sure on the M&P or the HK. I think the M&P is around the 5000 mark as well but I'm sure someone more in the know than me can chime in.
Pictures or you're a liar!;)
He's a member here and if he wants to post pictures he will. I can't control that, sorry :p
shit I have 3 Glocks, I hope I don't feel like I need to upgrade all of them.
What is the recommended replacement interval for recoil spring assemblies in the HK P30 and S&W M&P 9mm?
P30: 25,000
M&P9: 7,500
P30: 25,000
M&P9: 7,500
What about the M&P 40?
But it also impacts sales of existing models. I'm in the market for a Glock 17 now but will probably wait for the Gen 4.
I agree, however I think in the firearms industry the pre-release hype is what keeps the majority of these companies going.
The first Gen4 Glocks will be available soon enough that they're not worried about deferred sales. There is also going to be a price differential between the "4" and "pre-4" guns, so I imagine a lot of people who are perfectly happy with the current version of the gun will continue to buy it.
brushy bill
11-20-09, 23:39
Thanks Todd G,
Good to hear the 3rd gen will still be an option for foreseeable future.
I'm currently still deciding between G17 and S&W M9 (maybe both) and wouldn't want to jump on the Gen 4 wagon until they get a chance to work any bugs out.
Georgie Boy
11-21-09, 01:36
Our Glock rep brought one by our store a few days back and said the difference in price was gonna be around $20, so not all too bad.
As for the way the grips change, it's kind of hard to explain. There are two small groves running up the backstrap and divots at either side of the frame at the trigger housing pin. Neither were noticeable when holding it and doesn't stand out when looking it over. When either the medium or large grips were installed, they fit into these groves and divots and simply blended into the rest of the frame (hooked into the bottom and snapped into the divots, then held in place via a longer THP). Only worry I'd have is how the "divots" at the THP, when the medium or large grips are not installed, is gonna wear on hands over long days at the range.
Also talked to a CT rep a few weeks back who said they were waiting to release their new grips until Glock finished working on their new frames. At the time I figured they were thinkin of doin more with the SF line.
and sorry fellas... still no pics
brushy bill
11-21-09, 10:41
Georgie Boy,
Can you advise if current version mags will work in new gen? Earlier post said "should" be ok, but was hoping someone could confirm. Thanks!
Yes, only if set up for right handed release. New mags will work in old.
Georgie Boy
11-21-09, 19:06
Ditto
brushy bill
11-29-09, 19:22
Anyone know if the 17 will have the dual spring or if this will be .40 and up only?
No idea on the 17. The first out of the block will be the G22, Glock is gunning for a few big department/agency orders with this one and PD's these days are partial to .40S&W.
Anyone know if the 17 will have the dual spring or if this will be .40 and up only?
When I handled the 4th gen G22 I asked the same question. The Glock rep didn't know. His opinion was "if it's not broken don't fix it."
We should have a complete answer at SHOT.
Mike
Got to play with one again tonight.
Just thought I'd mention it. :p
RAM Engineer
12-01-09, 07:16
Got to play with one again tonight.
Just thought I'd mention it. :p
Was it a G-22, G-17 or G-19? Also, what it the duration of your non-disclosure agreement? ie, will you be able to give us a full write up on your thoughts and experiences once the gun is announced/released at SHOT?
The NDA won't "expire" at SHOT, but once the gun is in the public domain I can certainly discuss it without disclosing anything protected by the NDA.
Todd
Are they worth waiting for and will they be available from OMB such that I can wring it out at your class in Memphis?
PS a better question- will you have one to show about at your class in memphis?
I got to handle one yesterday, it was fine. Mag catch was a bit more readily accessible. The grip was good, I'd have to shoot it a bit to see how much difference it makes. Recoil spring was basically like a larger version of the G27, we'll see if it eliminates light related reliability issues.
dojpros -- I do not expect to have one in Memphis. Whether they'll be available in time for purchase by then, I don't know. If they are, Tom (or someone else from the range) may likely have one.
Todd, does the "new" recoil spring change the recoil impulse, more push v. less snap etc?
See here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement).
See here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement).
http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss175/progressinacan/SlowClap.gif
SWATcop556
12-03-09, 02:11
Hahaha well played sir.
In reference to the G17 and possible changes planned, I was told at my armorer recert that the G17 was also planned to change to the dual recoil spring.
They also did say that nothing was set in stone and that the info was subject to change. :p
In reference to the G17 and possible changes planned, I was told at my armorer recert that the G17 was also planned to change to the dual recoil spring.
That's pretty big news if it comes to be. The whole "don't fix what aint broke" thing definitely should apply here. I understand Glock's desire to have a streamlined parts supply, but a G17 with a new recoil spring assembly design basically needs to start at square one proving its reliability.
Some will argue that a dual recoil spring set up can more easily ensure that the action unlocks after the bullet leaves the barrel therefore making for a more accurate pistol. I've even heard the contention that pistols such as the G30 are especially accurate due to this effect. I have no idea, what do you guys think?
SWATcop556
12-04-09, 00:49
That's pretty big news if it comes to be. The whole "don't fix what aint broke" thing definitely should apply here. I understand Glock's desire to have a streamlined parts supply, but a G17 with a new recoil spring assembly design basically needs to start at square one proving its reliability.
My thoughts exactly. I don't want them dicking with the 9mm Glocks other than maybe the new frames. I'll be wary of the new ones until I see that they hold to the older 9mm's reputation.
Glock always brags about how many parts are used in all of their guns so I see the dual recoil spring a very likely possibility in the 9mm so we will just have to wait and see I guess.
Unless you already know Mr. NDA.........:D
sigmundsauer
12-04-09, 15:03
Can anyone confirm if the 4th Gen uses that standard Glock mags or are they new, too?
Tim
Can anyone confirm if the 4th Gen uses that standard Glock mags or are they new, too?
Tim
Standard mags will work.
That's pretty big news if it comes to be. The whole "don't fix what aint broke" thing definitely should apply here. I understand Glock's desire to have a streamlined parts supply, but a G17 with a new recoil spring assembly design basically needs to start at square one proving its reliability.
well... the subcompact glocks have been using a dual recoil spring successfully for many years.. so that helps.. but yeah.. still different...
i kinda like that my G19's single recoil spring only costs like 3 dollars... the subcompact springs are 25 :mad:
Some will argue that a dual recoil spring set up can more easily ensure that the action unlocks after the bullet leaves the barrel therefore making for a more accurate pistol. I've even heard the contention that pistols such as the G30 are especially accurate due to this effect. I have no idea, what do you guys think?
the idea is that there's more force holding the breach closed/locked? :confused:
i guess that makes sense, because you're effectively getting a longer spring, so you can make it stiffer at it's most extended point (slide forward, in battery) without having the spring tension ramp up excessively at the rear of the slide's travel...
my glock 26 is SILLY accurate. i'd think i was crazy, but lots of G26 owners seem to report equal or better accuracy than with their larger guns.
Standard mags will work with right hand configuration.
rocket 442
12-04-09, 19:46
if Glock would only come out with a single stack .45 that took 1911 mags with replaceable back straps.:cool:
RAM Engineer
12-04-09, 20:46
if Glock would only come out with a single stack .45 that took 1911 mags with replaceable back straps.:cool:
Why saddle yourself with 1911 mags when you have an opportunity for a product improved magazine.
the idea is that there's more force holding the breach closed/locked? :confused:
i guess that makes sense, because you're effectively getting a longer spring, so you can make it stiffer at it's most extended point (slide forward, in battery) without having the spring tension ramp up excessively at the rear of the slide's travel...
my glock 26 is SILLY accurate. i'd think i was crazy, but lots of G26 owners seem to report equal or better accuracy than with their larger guns.
Thanks for your response, yeah that's what I'm talking about. Maybe there is something to that idea.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see if the new Gen 4's with a new dual spring set up end up being more accurate than the old guns with the single recoil spring set up. I would be surprised if the new recoils spring set up adversely influences reliability, but then again we did have the Glock 22 fiasco.
if Glock would only come out with a single stack .45 that took 1911 mags with replaceable back straps.:cool:
I know where you are coming from, but the 1911 magazine is one of the design's achilles heels. The grip angle, single stack design, coupled with the dimensions of the .45 ACP round, all conspire to increasingly worsen the feed trajectory as more rounds are loaded into the mag. Beyond 5 or 6 loaded rounds, the gap between the topmost round and the one underneath it increasingly gets larger greatly exacerbating the nose diving effect that a round experiences as it gets fed into the chamber. This nose diving effect can cause the round to hit too low on the ramp and go on to cause a stoppage.
If they made slim a glock that took 1911 mags, glock would make a mint.
... well, another mint.
Anyone know if the 17 will have the dual spring or if this will be .40 and up only?
I got to play with one at SWAT Round-Up in Orlando this past week. The GLOCK rep stated that all models will have the dual spring, even though it was just designed to aid with the higher recoil models. I liked it, but it wasn't really all that groundbreaking. I think that it will be good for guys that like bigger grips on smaller guns, but even with the "SF" equivalent on a G23, it still wasn't all that small compared to what it is now.
if Glock would only come out with a single stack .45 that took 1911 mags with replaceable back straps.:cool:
Because the 1911 magazine has always been such a reliable, easy-to-produce thing. :cool:
the idea is that there's more force holding the breach closed/locked? :confused:
No. You could achieve that with a simple increase in spring rate. A dual spring system allows the tension pushing forward on the slide to change depending on where the slide is within its recoil phase. The trick is achieving this without significantly slowing down the actual cyclic rate of the gun, which is why cheap aftermarket "dual spring recoil reducers" are shunned by serious shooters.
my glock 26 is SILLY accurate. i'd think i was crazy, but lots of G26 owners seem to report equal or better accuracy than with their larger guns.
Glock has not used the best steel for its barrels. Longer barrels tend to flex more, which leads to reduction in accuracy. The shorter guns, with shorter barrels, have extremely little flex and thus are not affected by this problem. Years ago, I had a G27 that was frighteningly accurate.
Littlelebowski
12-06-09, 17:05
If they made slim a glock that took 1911 mags, glock would make a mint.
... well, another mint.
You're kidding, right? What that would do to Glock's reputation for reliability would not be worth it.
Glocks, AR's, AK's, M14's and 1911's all suffer if you use crap mags from odd sources. The McCormick and Wilson mags are more reliable than a lot of the 1911's the get used in, same with a USGI AR mag in a junk dpms or olympic rifle. Virtually all of the 1911 problems I've ever experienced were caused by the pistol or possibly maintenance/wear (extraction or ejection problems), not the magazine. True feeding problems were few and far between.
varoadking
12-06-09, 18:32
Glock has not used the best steel for its barrels. Longer barrels tend to flex more, which leads to reduction in accuracy. The shorter guns, with shorter barrels, have extremely little flex and thus are not affected by this problem. Years ago, I had a G27 that was frighteningly accurate.
Thank you for that information...
I had a G26 that I shot better than a G17, and have a G30SF that I shoot better than my G21SF.
Good to know that, barring shooter error, there may indeed be logic at work behind all that...
Because the 1911 magazine has always been such a reliable, easy-to-produce thing. :cool:
No. You could achieve that with a simple increase in spring rate. A dual spring system allows the tension pushing forward on the slide to change depending on where the slide is within its recoil phase. The trick is achieving this without significantly slowing down the actual cyclic rate of the gun, which is why cheap aftermarket "dual spring recoil reducers" are shunned by serious shooters.
Glock has not used the best steel for its barrels. Longer barrels tend to flex more, which leads to reduction in accuracy. The shorter guns, with shorter barrels, have extremely little flex and thus are not affected by this problem. Years ago, I had a G27 that was frighteningly accurate.
if you simply increase spring rate it'll throw everything else off as you said.. so the dual recoil spring lets you have more force holding the breech closed in battery without having that spring force ramp up excessively as the slide comes back. right?
that makes sense about the barrels..
so is the glock 34 worth it? i thought the whole idea of those guns was long range accuracy thanks to the longer sight radius...
or are those guys all running match barrels?
i'm kinda debating shooting my G26 in a match tomorrow instead of my 19... :confused:
if you simply increase spring rate it'll throw everything else off as you said.. so the dual recoil spring lets you have more force holding the breech closed in battery without having that spring force ramp up excessively as the slide comes back. right?
that makes sense about the barrels..
so is the glock 34 worth it? i thought the whole idea of those guns was long range accuracy thanks to the longer sight radius...
or are those guys all running match barrels?
i'm kinda debating shooting my G26 in a match tomorrow instead of my 19... :confused:
Assuming he's not lying to cover up a conspiracy of bad long barrels, Sevigny uses basically a stock G34 with better sights and some trigger work http://www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/dave-sevigny-interview-faq/ But that doesn't say anything about a G26 relative to a G19 of course.
For the majority of people under the majority of circumstances, the barrel flex issue isn't worth worrying about. When you're comparing a G34 to a G26, for example, you've also got sight radius issues (as skyugo pointed out) which favor the G34 in terms of long range precision.
According to DannyR over on Glocktalk.com this photo appears on the last page of the 2010 Glock calendar:
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee64/oclvtrek/img017-crop.jpg
woodandsteel
12-17-09, 13:20
Damn! Now I really want one.
Thanks for the photo.
That looks like the one I handled at Cops West. It should be pretty popular. I'm curious to see if it really does reduce recoil.
Kentucky Cop
12-17-09, 13:52
OH MY!!!!!!! She's......(sigh), BEAUTIFUL.;)
RAM Engineer
12-17-09, 13:52
That appears to be the RTF3 grip texture that was previously shown at the time of the RTF2 introduction. Correct?
SWATcop556
12-17-09, 14:18
<...>
That's all I needed to know. :D
woodandsteel
12-17-09, 14:21
How uneventful. :)
I know! That's what I love about it! :)
OH MY!!!!!!! She's......(sigh), BEAUTIFUL.;)
Couldn't agree with you more.
I don't care what the wife says or thinks, I'm getting one!
I don't care what the wife says or thinks, I'm getting one!
:D
What she doesn't know won't hurt her.
What she doesn't know won't hurt her.
what she WILL know will hurt HIM:cool:
what she WILL know will hurt HIM:cool:
If so we'll just delete his account and tell her we never knew him :cool:
Jay Cunningham
12-17-09, 16:46
Are those the usual plastic sights or are they steel?
EzGoingKev
12-17-09, 16:51
The mag release is a lot wider than the older ones.
I like that they got rid of the "fish gills" on the slide but wish they put some up front too.
brushy bill
12-17-09, 17:43
Wondering if that big release is going to impact mag compatibality with current generation...I've heard not, but this looks much larger.
In my opinion (as someone newly into shooting and has spend hundreds of hours over the past few months comparison shopping for my first pistol) I have a hard time imagining a more boring looking and ugly semi-auto pistol. Awesome gun, no doubt but the visual aethetics of a mailbox. So I find it interesting to read so many objections to the fishscale slide serrations when every opinion I've read about how they work say they are better than the classic vertical cuts. So on already ugly gun people are valuing style over function. I agree that they look out of place with the boxy Glock look, but if they give you a better grip under adverse conditions, who cares, right?
I also notice that Gillette shaving cream cans include very similar fishscale protrusions on the plastic caps. Makes sense since one's hands or the cap can be wet or slippery. Good product design and attention to detail. Good enough Gillette or M&P users but not Glock customer's apparently.
No offense intended, just some newbie observations.
At last, Glock's almost caught up with the M&P... LOL
RogerinTPA
12-17-09, 18:20
With the pic M4arc provided, showing the replaceable back straps, I guess a 4th Gen G19 is in my future.:cool:
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-17-09, 18:27
Looks very interesting. It looks like they decided (in classic Glock fashion) to go with substance over style. Nothing crazy. They just adopted some of the features that have come into common use since the third gen. Glock's third gen incorporated the integral rail idea introduced by H&K. This one has the ergonomic improvements that the Walther P99 brought to the table (and later copied by everyone).
woodandsteel
12-17-09, 20:50
what she WILL know will hurt HIM:cool:
She does have the combination to my safe. And it is her turn to buy a new gun.:D
To bad I can't get her to even consider a Glock.:(
If so we'll just delete his account and tell her we never knew him :cool:
PLEASE DON'T BAN ME!!!!:eek:
Will the 26 & 27 have adjustable back straps?:
She does have the combination to my safe. And it is her turn to buy a new gun.:D
To bad I can't get her to even consider a Glock.:(
PLEASE DON'T BAN ME!!!!:eek:
If would only be to protect the forum from the wrath of an angry wife!
:)
Which current Glocks do not have the finger grooves or is there a way to nullify their existence on models that have them?
It's the only thing keeping me from buying a Glock.
This is the pistol that I handled at Copswest. I can't wait for the G23 version. I think the G27 is fine the way it is.
OY... When will they do something about those pesky finger grooves...lol
I still HEART GLOCK though. :D
Shadow1198
12-18-09, 00:07
Glock sure doesn't appear to be trying very hard. :rolleyes:
"Glock sure doesn't appear to be trying very hard. "
You don't understand. Improvements to "perfection" must be made in small increments.
Two things:
1. The people get a more comfortable grip and Glock does not add one single part to the pistols parts count (in standard configuration). Simplicity and KISS marketability are maintained.
2. If you are dissapointed in the aesthetics and final configuration, remember what company we are dealing with. As long as the thing feels good in the dark, who really cares? ;)
For some reason i got fixated on the magazine release. It just doesnt look right. Its like the thing that doesnt belong. Guess i should just view this thing as a tool. Sold my old G22 in anticipation of this thing. Have my M&P 40 to hold me over until then. Though im going to wait until everybody else takes the test drive first this time.
According to DannyR over on Glocktalk.com this photo appears on the last page of the 2010 Glock calendar:
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee64/oclvtrek/img017-crop.jpg
Wow, all of that anticipation for....another Glock.
I am disappointed. I was hoping they were going to change the glockish grip angle that doesn't agree with me.
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-18-09, 10:37
I am liking the mag release. It looks like I might be able to drop the mag without any grip change.
I am liking the mag release. It looks like I might be able to drop the mag without any grip change.
I think that's going to be big for a lot of people, myself included!
Looking at my 19 right now it looks as if the button of the mag release is now the same size as the opposite end, allowing it to be reversible and having the spring hold it in place. No idea if that's the case, but my best guess from the provided pic, how it locks up the mag reversed... ?
Either way, I like it and will be getting a 17, from there deciding if I want to trade in my 19 for a Gen4 or RTF.
I'd be happy if they'd just put out another run of non-FG/R models, esp 19 and G23.
From that picture only and without being able to handle one yet, here are my thoughts:
1. They still have that fetish for the rought texture junk, I don't care for it. Makes it uncomfortable for long training sessions.
2. The dreaded finger grooves are still there.
3. Even with 3 sizes of interchangeable backstraps, they still won't get rid of that arch in the grip that bothered a lot of people. It does open an avenue for a small industry of aftermarket grip inserts. Some industrous group (Blue Force Gear, Tango Down, Magpul or Vltor) could make a straight back strap insert and I bet it would sell.
4. The enlarged mag release maybe a blessing or curse at the same time. Using the Rogers-Surefire flashlight method could result in accidental bumping and drop the mag at an inopportune time, making the gun a one shot wonder. Ask me how I know this.
John_Wayne777
12-18-09, 13:50
I have the same concerns about the mag release.
RAM Engineer
12-18-09, 14:03
If the mag release is deficient in any way, I'm sure TangoDown and Larry Vickers will have a good solution.
Plastic sights (I'm guessing, but I feel safe in that guess)
Undersized beavertail
Finger grooves and thumb rests
Backstrap hump
Bullshit texture
I have to agree with this guy:
Glock sure doesn't appear to be trying very hard. :rolleyes:
I still don't understand why Glocks coming with plastic sights is such a big deal, how many people here rip them right off only to install heinie, mepro, trij, whatever... ? Like I've said before, I wish manufacturers would offer their products sans sights to allow me to put my money towards a set I actually want rather than coming with some that I'm going to take off anyways.
I still don't understand why Glocks coming with plastic sights is such a big deal, how many people here rip them right off only to install heinie, mepro, trij, whatever... ? Like I've said before, I wish manufacturers would offer their products sans sights to allow me to put my money towards a set I actually want rather than coming with some that I'm going to take off anyways.
There are several issues wtih this. First, not everyone has the coin to put a $100-$150 set of sights on a gun they just bought. Secondly, not everyone realizes that that sights that come with the G-Lock are nothing more than place holders. So they use these crappy sights to defends their lives with. :rolleyes:
C4
There are several issues wtih this. First, not everyone has the coin to put a $100-$150 set of sights on a gun they just bought. Secondly, not everyone realizes that that sights that come with the G-Lock are nothing more than place holders. So they use these crappy sights to defends their lives with. :rolleyes:
C4
I only meant as an option, not as an end all be all "no sights included".
RogerinTPA
12-18-09, 16:49
From that picture only and without being able to handle one yet, here are my thoughts:
1. They still have that fetish for the rought texture junk, I don't care for it. Makes it uncomfortable for long training sessions.
2. The dreaded finger grooves are still there.
3. Even with 3 sizes of interchangeable backstraps, they still won't get rid of that arch in the grip that bothered a lot of people. It does open an avenue for a small industry of aftermarket grip inserts. Some industrous group (Blue Force Gear, Tango Down, Magpul or Vltor) could make a straight back strap insert and I bet it would sell.
4. The enlarged mag release maybe a blessing or curse at the same time. Using the Rogers-Surefire flashlight method could result in accidental bumping and drop the mag at an inopportune time, making the gun a one shot wonder. Ask me how I know this.
So no change to the grip angle itself?
Wondering if that big release is going to impact mag compatibality with current generation...I've heard not, but this looks much larger.
I asked the GLOCK rep about this when I was playing with the gen4...he said that they are basically dropping the ambi mag release and keeping the old release, therefore old mags will work as long as the release is on the left side.
http://www.saysuncle.com/2009/12/17/fourth-generation-glock-picture/#comments
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_CSUgrycy7jY/SyqFdwMgrOI/AAAAAAAABLg/TmdCVqHy3qU/s400/fourthgenglock.jpg
brushy bill
12-18-09, 19:24
emt370,
Thanks for that. I'm pretty heavily invested in Glock mags (largely as a result of phobia over a new "crime bill" from Obama administration) and don't want them making the new guns where the old mags won't work.
Regards,
Bill
Looks like a normal Glock.
Jay Cunningham
12-18-09, 22:49
I will buy a 19 and I will run it through its paces and I will shoot the holy hell out of it.
Even though it's a flawed design. ;)
Generic thoughts without going into any specifics about the gun other than what's been officially and publicly released:
If you were expecting this thing to shoot photon torpedoes or be a major leap forward in handgun technology, you should seek immediate help from a mental health professional. Glock took an incredibly popular, mature design and made the changes necessary to bring the gun into competitive line with various guns from other manufacturers. While the Glock might still be the most popular gun in US law enforcement and the darling of many internet forums, it's been losing market share here in the US and even more so on the international scene specifically because it lacked multiple grip configurations and lefty-friendly controls.
Glock has not historically been a ground-breaking innovator when it comes to features. It wasn't the first polymer handgun (that was HK), it wasn't the first striker-fired handgun (that was Roth-Steyr back in 1907, with HK's P7 being the first "modern" SFA). It uses a locking mechanism pioneered by SIG in the 70's. Glock's major contribution -- for good & bad -- was bringing a gun to market that combined these innovative features into one durable, reliable, affordable gun.
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