View Full Version : Firearm Instructor question
rifleman2000
10-08-09, 10:05
I have the opportunity to attend NRA firearm instructor certification classes. This is something that I would like to do for a while, but what is the end result? I have a full time job and envision teaching classes on my spare time but I am not sure what other issues I will have to deal with (insurance, range use permission, etc.)
If any instructors can weigh in, I would appreciate the input.
I've had several NRA courses. The NRA is not the most progressive body, but it is one of the few that is granted widespread recognition for various purposes. Instructors teaching within the bounds of their rules benefit by using an established, standardized, validated, and NRA-backed curriculum. The NRA training and certification is a great baseline to build on.
There are insurance carriers that will require an NRA cred for insurability. There are ranges that will be more open to your training if it's NRA.
Always keep in mind that an instructor credential is only the beginning of the process that makes you worthy of teaching others.
John_Wayne777
10-08-09, 11:01
If you want to do formal instruction either as a side job or a hobby, it's good to have the instructor certs.
If you want to do formal instruction either as a side job or a hobby, it's good to have the instructor certs.
I agree. I am lacking in this regard myself and looking to rectify the situation.
Among other things, even in you do other types of training, in Florida as long as you hit the requisite points in the class you can still offer your students a certificate that is good towards a CWP. IMHO not having that option available to students is extremely remiss, majorly so if you're limited to one state, or teach in one state primarily. And you should double check to see if you can help the students meet the requirements if you go out of state.
I don't believe their is any reason someone should have to go to a 2-day progressive and modern class and then go sit through a 3 hour gunshow class later on just to get the permit.
Being a good shooter and being a good instructor are two different things.
Going to the NRA instructor school will not improve your shooting (especially the non-L.E.A.D. schools). It will teach you about pedagogy. It will provide you with a canned, peer-reviewed, standardized curriculum to follow when you teach.
I've seen a lot of bad NRA-certified instructors. There are folks who have no idea how to diagnose a shooter or even the proper way to hold a pistol. Some think they know more than the NRA and stray far into la-la land with what they teach, often to the detriment of the shooter. The whole idea behind the NRA program is that if you are teaching an NRA course you are teaching the NRA course and not some variation thereof with your own little modifications.
That's why, btw, I don't teach NRA classes. But having the cert -- and going through the training to get the cert -- is still beneficial.
Personally, I wouldn't teach someone how to load a magazine without insurance. Instructor insurance is fairly inexpensive and is available through a number of companies. The company I use is discussed at my site here (http://pistol-training.com/archives/588).
In the end, getting your NRA instructor cert is sort of like a getting a college degree. By itself it doesn't guarantee you know anything or know how to do anything. But at least you've proven you're willing to put in the time and effort to get certified, and presumably had to pass a standard to get your qualification. It's far superior to folks who learned how to teach simply by being a student at half a dozen classes ...
NCPatrolAR
10-08-09, 12:47
The best thing about the NRA instructor courses I've seen is that they help you learn how to teach someone. You won't be a phenominal instructor but you should develop a firm understanding of learning types, use of visual aids, and other key things that will help you to teach in a better manner. If possible, try to get into some of LEAD programs if you want more "progressive" instruction
It is a huge advantage for you to teach, you never really understand a subject, till you teach it (or try too!) the NRA is a good base to start from.
They have been round awhile yes?
I am new to M4 Carbine (I have one, a RRA as well) but new to the group, but this is a great group of people.
rifleman2000
10-08-09, 14:24
I appreciate the input. For some background on me, I am a former US Army Infantry officer with plenty of time up front and instructing/training Soldiers. Most of my advanced weapon proficiencies are from training with a good friend of mine that was a certified SWAT firearm instructor. I am very confident in my ability to teach AND shoot.
I appreciate the input. For some background on me, I am a former US Army Infantry officer with plenty of time up front and instructing/training Soldiers. Most of my advanced weapon proficiencies are from training with a good friend of mine that was a certified SWAT firearm instructor. I am very confident in my ability to teach AND shoot.
Please don't take this personally but....
I have run into a whole lot of military instructors who did not have the personality and/or skills required to make the switch. Not saying that to burst your bubble, but just pointing out that one may not have as much to do with the other as you think. Acknowledging that there may be a difference and that it may be something you have to work on is key to being successful.
Similarly, many of us have been exposed to instructors with "SWAT training" that didn't amount to much.
Not saying that either is bad, just saying that neither are automatically good either.
Please don't take this personally but....
I have run into a whole lot of military instructors who did not have the personality and/or skills required to make the switch. Not saying that to burst your bubble, but just pointing out that one may not have as much to do with the other as you think. Acknowledging that there may be a difference and that it may be something you have to work on is key to being successful.
Similarly, many of us have been exposed to instructors with "SWAT training" that didn't amount to much.
Not saying that either is bad, just saying that neither are automatically good either.
Common now Rob, don't be shy... Let it out... LOL
rifleman2000
10-08-09, 14:48
Please don't take this personally but....
I have run into a whole lot of military instructors who did not have the personality and/or skills required to make the switch. Not saying that to burst your bubble, but just pointing out that one may not have as much to do with the other as you think. Acknowledging that there may be a difference and that it may be something you have to work on is key to being successful.
Similarly, many of us have been exposed to instructors with "SWAT training" that didn't amount to much.
Not saying that either is bad, just saying that neither are automatically good either.
No offense taken.
I know my capabilities, abilities and the quality of my training.
The NRA course is good. It gets your foot in the door. It by no means is the end all be all.
Jay Cunningham
10-11-09, 11:21
I am currently 2/3 of the way through the NRA Basic Pistol Instructor course. Most of the material that I've been exposed to is very solid. The course teaches you how to teach, not how to shoot. Specifically, it teaches you how to teach NRA courses. That said, there is a lot of good general info for presenting information.
Failure2Stop
10-12-09, 14:11
I am giving this little bit of insight not necessarily to the OP in particular, but to all those military personnel that are considering trying their hand at instructing outside their service:
Getting people interested in your technique/opinion when they are paying you is very different than instructing people that have to listen to you. Many times people that are successful inside the military structure as a trainer/instructor do not do well when transitioning to "real" people, and in accepting that they don't really have to listen to you or improve. The respect inherant to rank and billet inside the military are not necessarily present outside it. There are some exceptional instructors that have made the leap, but if you ask them they will pretty much all tell you that the first time (at least) was not what they expected.
Personality, charisma, and performance mean much more than most are ready to admit. Beside that, the new instructor needs to have something to deliver other than a re-hash of the military techniques and adherance to lesson plans. If you are simply going to stick with fundamentals there isn't really anything new, so the concepts and techniques will remain the same, but simply trying to copy the Art of the Tactical Carbine or a JV presentation of an LAV Class isn't going to win you many fans.
Once again, in case anyone's panties are in a bunch, I am not addressing anyone in particular, but rather an observation from someone that has worked both sides and internationally. I am not trying to imply that I am better than anyone or that others can't do the same thing, but truly just giving a little insight.
Good luck to all that want to deliver a service, but don't expect it to pay the mortgage for a while.
but simply trying to copy the Art of the Tactical Carbine or a JV presentation of an LAV Class isn't going to win you many fans.
:p
And on the flip side of that point... contradicting anything that Haley or Costa taught could get you shot!
I am an NRA L.E.A.D. instructor for handgun, shotgun and Tactical Shooting. I take pride in my teaching but I am only limited to teaching LE. I have to apply to the civilian branch of the NRA to get my certification to teach anyone else. I agree with most of the guys who chimed in about how the NRA takes a lot of time in teaching you how to teach. I have learned a lot of different techniques during the classes but not really how to shoot much better. I do, however, believe that there is more to an instructor that knows how to teach proper technique and keep the student interested than an instructor who is a superb marksman and spends most of the class showing off how good he shoots (I have attended those types of classes). Unfortunately another negative for the NRA classes is that in my line of work, there are guys that attend the classes because they want to learn and teach their co workers how to survive out on the street and then there are the old timers that attend these classes to get off the road for a week or so and joke about how they are taking this class and retiring in a year. The latter is only a small amount of them but the majority have their heart in it. And as for watching Costa and Haley teach, NO you can't become a firearms instructor by watching a couple of videos BUT they are very progressive and a good instructor will use techniques that will work and are not afraid to use someone else's material if it can improve their shooting skills.
Take the NRA courses, get the certifications and insurance and take some other courses and use what you think is the best of all the techniques you learn from all of the classes to teach your students.
In running my own full time training school for twenty three years and made good money at it! Pet peeve #1.
Moving forward, and shooting while moveing. 4 moveing 4 BEHIND THEM HOLDING THEIR BELTS TO STOP ONE WALKING IN FRONT OF ANY ONE!
How about the first 45 minutes saying were you are from, and why you are here! Standing up one at a time.
Last but not least. the instructor can not hit a bin lid at 7 yds. Most can shoot mind.
Interesting thread so far...
Andy Lander the head civilian training at the NRA is a pal and he not only can teach very well he can run a gun even better. I got my NRA certs under him too but I don't teach NRA courses. I teach various firearms courses and I use any material I see fit regardless of origin and brand-name.
I'm a NRA certified instructor - it's something good to do on the weekends. I mainly pursued it for the fact that it was required to teach the CCW classes for Arkansas, but I had a good time doing the stuff. Mostly pretty basic information, nothing really difficult, just alot of paperwork.
I will also echo what others have mentioned. My employer uses the NRA for some obvious reasons therefore I obtain NRA certifications. However on the upside, I have several other certs outside of the NRA. Having said that, the NRA will present a good foundation. They are not "high speed" or "ouside of the box", but being NRA certified may have some very good advantages.
I will also echo what has been said about LE/SWAT and Military instruction. It is often stuck in a time warp, and often ego's and old timers can cloud progression. I have no hard time saying that because I am a one of two lead guys on a full time tactical unit and we often intermix and work alongside the military guys and DOD SRT units. Having gone to numerous LE heavy schools, NTOA, FBI etc, as well as other LE/Mil/civilian mixed schools, I have had the opportunity to see the good, bad and the ugly. So to again echo what has been said, a Mil or LE instructing background doesn't necessarily mean a great instructor.
I am an NRA L.E.A.D. instructor for handgun, shotgun and Tactical Shooting. I take pride in my teaching but I am only limited to teaching LE. I have to apply to the civilian branch of the NRA to get my certification to teach anyone else. Hmmmm, did they offer you the civvy card after your L.E.A.D classes? I have the NRA L.E.A.D Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, Tactical Shooting, Precision Rilfe certs. After my first Pistol / Shotgun certification, I was able to fill out the paper work pay the fees and get the civilian card without anything extra. However, I do not do any instruction oustide of work. No time.
I had the NRA certifications as well as many others when I was teaching. Get as many certifications as you can. Certifications alone don't make you competent, just as a college degree doesn't make you smart...it just means you can succeed in class.
The good thing about getting many different certifications is that it exposes you to many different ideas. Hopefully, you will eventually find some common ground (information) from the best of the instructors..in other words, they will be teaching the same sort of things that you feel are valid and useful. The certifications are just a start to the learning process.
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