View Full Version : Ordered a mid-size M&P .45
I'm a big fan of the M&P platform, already have 3 of them in 9mm, plus one of the PT logo models on order.
Recently I was in the market for a carry-able .45, and my immediate impulse was to get a commander-sized 1911, since that is my favorite platform overall. The Dan Wesson CBOB came to mind as an affordable but quality option, and then from there, you jump right up to models costing a lot more at Wilson, Nighthawk, Brown, Volkman, etc.
However, I ended up comparing pros and cons of a commader-sized 1911 to a mid-sized M&P, and while obviously not everyone is going to agree with my list, here's what I ended up with:
Pros for the M&P
* Lighter than commander-sized 1911's (nearly 0.5 pounds lighter than steel models, obviously a "LW" alloy model would be closer to the M&P)
* Smaller than commander-sized models (M&P is 7.5" OAL, the CBOB is nearly 8")
* Higher capacity (10 + 1 for M&P, vs 8 + 1 for 1911)
* Reduced maintenance: I have been able to MAKE my 1911's run reliably, but it definitely takes more time and expense. It'd be nice to have a carry .45 that won't take so much of my time to maintain.
* Cost: M&P was $564. The DW CBOB starts at over $1K, and beyond that, the quality commanders start at around $2300.
Cons for the M&P
* Trigger: No M&P trigger will ever match even a moderately tuned 1911 trigger, IMO. But then, this is not a target or range pistol anyway.
* Dry firing practice: M&P's are proven to be rather fragile at dry firing (yes, even if you use snap caps--don't ask, I've had painful experiences!).
* Parts: it's still easier to get 1911 parts than M&P, although it's improving.
Final analysis, I went with the M&P at this time. May still get a commander some day, but at this point when it comes to overall usefulness and carry-ability, the M&P won out for my situation.
GLOCKMASTER
10-08-09, 16:07
Just picked my new one yesterday and have been dry firing a lot. I will get it out on the range this weekend during a Pat Rogers class.
My M&P45 is my favorite pistol (Hence the signature). It is the most accurate pistol I own. I have nearly 10K down the pipe without a single failure. The trigger on the 45 will clean up dramatically after a few hundred rounds but Dan Burwell does some amazing trigger work to these guns at a very affordable price. You made a great purchase.
Has anyone tried the Performance Center package in your M&P .45? For me, the PC sear would probably be adequate for the trigger. I've found that I really like the trigger with the PC sear as it came in my M&P Pro.
The trigger on the 45 will clean up dramatically after a few hundred rounds but Dan Burwell does some amazing trigger work to these guns at a very affordable price.
+1 on that. Shipping will kill you though, unless you have a friendly FFL.
jdavis6576
10-09-09, 06:57
I have three M&Ps; a 9c with a Bowie trigger job, a stock 40FS, and a 45c with the PC sear. The 9c has the shortest reset but I believe the 45c has the most clean break. I've been debating on what to do with my 40FS and I believe I'm going to go with the PC sear. I've only put a few thousand rounds through the 45c but with dry fire it has become my favorite trigger. I don't think you'll go wrong with the PC even though it will cost more than a trigger job from Bowie or Burwell.
I guess one nice thing on the PC sear is that after they install, they should cover it under the S&W full warranty. So if you have problems later, they would pick up shipping and warranty work. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind getting a few extras, like grip stippling and some Warren sights, but as I understand, the Perf Center smiths will not do any type of other work such as installing sights or adding stippling, they will ONLY do the pre-packaged services that they specify on their web page (such as adding the PC sear). Assuming that is correct, I will probably have to go to Bowie or Burwell.
+1 on that. Shipping will kill you though, unless you have a friendly FFL.
I don't know about where you live but in NY we don't have to go through an FFL. There is no transfer of ownership. You are just sending it to a gunsmith who is a licensed FFL for service.
Has anyone tried the Performance Center package in your M&P .45? For me, the PC sear would probably be adequate for the trigger. I've found that I really like the trigger with the PC sear as it came in my M&P Pro.
My M&P Pro came with the PC sear. It's not really what it's hyped up to be. I ended up shipping it off to Burwell. Much nicer now. Burwell eliminates all of the over travel, reduces the pull weight and shortens up the reset without changing any of the springs. The reset is much more positive when done.
Here's a crappy pic of my FS .45
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1043466/BJRGN-Friends.jpg
Kentucky Cop
10-09-09, 15:44
Sorry to jump in here, is there a difference between a Smith M&P and a Smith M&P Pro? I have been reading information in regards to the M&P line and shooters keep throwing out the "PRO" word. Can anyone straighten this out for me/:confused::
I really want a M&P.45 and currently up in the air on with or without the thumb safety. Now the "PRO" word has me thrown a bit....:rolleyes:
Thanks, Ky Cop
jdavis6576
10-09-09, 17:03
On the other hand, I wouldn't mind getting a few extras, like grip stippling and some Warren sights, but as I understand, the Perf Center smiths will not do any type of other work such as installing sights or adding stippling, they will ONLY do the pre-packaged services that they specify on their web page (such as adding the PC sear). Assuming that is correct, I will probably have to go to Bowie or Burwell.
When I sent my 45c in for the PC sear I also shipped them a set of Warren 2 dots I ordered from MLE Shooting Sports and asked them to install them for me. They did it, and as I recall they didn't charge me much to install them.
M&P45,
I was referring to the overnight charges levied on handguns sent via UPS or Fedex. Depending on distance, fuel surcharges, mileage and road surcharges (Burwell's address automatically gets about a $4.50 surcharge because UPS doesn't like his road). My UPS charge to an out-of-state FFL is over $60.
But, if you can get an FFL to send it for you, he can do so via USPS, with significantly lower fees.
When I sent my 45c in for the PC sear I also shipped them a set of Warren 2 dots I ordered from MLE Shooting Sports and asked them to install them for me. They did it, and as I recall they didn't charge me much to install them.
Hmmm, that was a good idea. I'll have to try that myself. Only thing is that, knowing what has happened to me before at another shop, I'd be worried that if I sent the new sights, they'd LOSE the sights, then say "We never saw them."
mike benedict
10-10-09, 06:08
I really want a M&P.45 and currently up in the air on with or without the thumb safety. Now the "PRO" word has me thrown a bit....:rolleyes:
Thanks, Ky Cop
The M&P pro is the long slide with the performance center sear.
S&W will install the performance center sear in other M&Ps as part of the factory trigger job
Kentucky Cop
10-11-09, 14:12
The M&P pro is the long slide with the performance center sear.
S&W will install the performance center sear in other M&Ps as part of the factory trigger job
Thank you Mr. Mike.;)
You don't have to ship overnight to a gunsmith or for repairs with either UPS or Fedex. You can go regular ground.
M&P45,
I was referring to the overnight charges levied on handguns sent via UPS or Fedex. Depending on distance, fuel surcharges, mileage and road surcharges (Burwell's address automatically gets about a $4.50 surcharge because UPS doesn't like his road). My UPS charge to an out-of-state FFL is over $60.
But, if you can get an FFL to send it for you, he can do so via USPS, with significantly lower fees.
decodeddiesel
10-31-09, 19:34
You don't have to ship overnight to a gunsmith or for repairs with either UPS or Fedex. You can go regular ground.
I just shipped off a pistol via fedex today and spoke with the onsite manager. He has been the manager of this Fedex hub for 8 years and he most certainly confirmed that if you are not an FFL, and you ship a pistol to an FFL, it MUST be shipped priority overnight. Long Arms (so long as they're not NFA) can go ground however, but pistols must go priority overnight unless you send them FFL to FFL.
ETA: I just ordered a 4.5" FDE M&P45 myself from Bud's. I am excited to get it but I'm already thinking of what I want done with the trigger. I am seriously considering sending it to S&W and having the PC Sear and Mass Compliant Trigger Bar added ala Pistol Training.com M&P.
You don't have to ship overnight to a gunsmith or for repairs with either UPS or Fedex. You can go regular ground.
No, Fed Ex and UPS both MAKE you ship handguns overnight. Started a few years back.
When you ship overnight try and avoid shipping on a Fri/Sat because the gun will still sit in a warehouse for 1-2 nights, where if you ship on Mon-Thurs it will be true overnight delivery. As long as you are paying Over Night Rates why not truly have the lowered chance of theft and not let it sit around in a warehouse some place;)
To return to the subject of the M&P .45 :-), I finally got the new mid-sized out to the range and put 75 rounds through it. And as expected, it performed well. Not a single FTF or FTE. And accuracy? Good grief, this thing shoots nearly as well at 15 and 25 yards as my accurized 1911. The first 20 shots, shooting offhand at about 15 yards, I carved out a hole in the 9 and 10 rings with all but a few shots falling into a 2.5" area. I'll get a picture of the target posted tonight.
Another pleasant surprise about the pistol was the trigger. I had done about 200 dry firing pulls prior to first range session to smooth the trigger, and it was amazingly light and smooth for a stock M&P. One thing I will never enjoy about M&P triggers is that gritty, crunchy feeling during the initial take-up phase of the trigger pull, but I am hoping that like my other M&P's, that aspect will work itself out after some hard use.
One last thing: the balance of the mid-sized pistol in your hand is outstanding. This has been reported by others, and I found it to be true as well. I think the S&W M&P mid-sized .45 has really found the sweet spot between portability and shootability.
To return to the subject of the M&P .45 :-), I finally got the new mid-sized out to the range and put 75 rounds through it. And as expected, it performed well. Not a single FTF or FTE. And accuracy? Good grief, this thing shoots nearly as well at 15 and 25 yards as my accurized 1911. The first 20 shots, shooting offhand at about 15 yards, I carved out a hole in the 9 and 10 rings with all but a few shots falling into a 2.5" area. I'll get a picture of the target posted tonight.
Another pleasant surprise about the pistol was the trigger. I had done about 200 dry firing pulls prior to first range session to smooth the trigger, and it was amazingly light and smooth for a stock M&P. One thing I will never enjoy about M&P triggers is that gritty, crunchy feeling during the initial take-up phase of the trigger pull, but I am hoping that like my other M&P's, that aspect will work itself out after some hard use.
One last thing: the balance of the mid-sized pistol in your hand is outstanding. This has been reported by others, and I found it to be true as well. I think the S&W M&P mid-sized .45 has really found the sweet spot between portability and shootability.
That's good to hear dude! Now where are the pictures???
Heh, good point. I'll get a couple of them up tonight when I get home: the target with my first 20 rounds through it, the pistol, etc.
BTW, I talked with David Bowie yesterday, I'm seriously looking at sending this thing off for a Bowie "long trigger" job and grip stippling plus sights. The thing is, this baby shoots so well out of the box, I'm kinda' torn as to whether it even NEEDS the extra work. Plus, Dave told me the wait time will be several months, and I don't wanna be without it for that long! :(
BTW, I talked with David Bowie yesterday, I'm seriously looking at sending this thing off for a Bowie "long trigger" job and grip stippling plus sights. The thing is, this baby shoots so well out of the box, I'm kinda' torn as to whether it even NEEDS the extra work. Plus, Dave told me the wait time will be several months, and I don't wanna be without it for that long! :(
Glad to see you're back on track. Sorry for the hijacked thread.
As for the above, and with apologies to Mr. Bowie, don't do it! Think of the children! :p
A few pics. The pics of the target are the same, the first shows the initial 20 rounds I fired out of the pistol at 15 yards, then the 2nd overlays a ruler to show that in the large grouping of shots, all but about 3 or 4 fell into about 2.5". I was really happy with how well this thing shoots right out of the box and offhand, from the standpoint of accuracy, reliability, and overall recoil and shot-to-shot recovery behavior.
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee301/husker_t/MP45-2.jpg
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee301/husker_t/MPTarget1.jpg
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee301/husker_t/MPTarget2.jpg
No, Fed Ex and UPS both MAKE you ship handguns overnight. Started a few years back.
It was around 10 years ago. There was a big boycott of UPS for a while by many gun related companies (Dillon at the time used UPS and tried to shift to another shipper -- Fedex Ground did not exist at the time -- it was RPS and only shipped to commercial addresses) that did not last long as there was not really any competition to UPS at the time. Fedex followed the lead.
I think UPS and/or Fedex recently backed off some on only allowing handguns to go overnight. I know my Jerrys Sports Center catalogs now state that they can ship handguns by 2-day express, which is significantly cheaper.
olds442tyguy
11-04-09, 11:37
Nice! I find myself really wanting the FDE 4" model with a thumb safety.
That is not what their rules state regarding shipping firearms for repair or modification. FedEx and UPS employees often do not know their own rules regarding shipping firearms which is why I take a copy with me whenever I do this. I have had them tell me that they don't ship firearms at all or that all types of firearms shipments must go overnight which is not true.
No, Fed Ex and UPS both MAKE you ship handguns overnight. Started a few years back.
Nice work. As much as I like the long slide M&P.45 the mid size has about perfect balance.
A few pics. The pics of the target are the same, the first shows the initial 20 rounds I fired out of the pistol at 15 yards, then the 2nd overlays a ruler to show that in the large grouping of shots, all but about 3 or 4 fell into about 2.5". I was really happy with how well this thing shoots right out of the box and offhand, from the standpoint of accuracy, reliability, and overall recoil and shot-to-shot recovery behavior.
Please C&P the relevant sections from UPS and FedEx rules then.
On UPS' Shipping Firearms page, there is no asterisk by the below paragraph that says "unless it's going to a repair shop".
Handguns, as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921,will be accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air® Early A.M.®, UPS Next Day Air®, or UPS Next Day Air Saver® services
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html
decodeddiesel
11-20-09, 15:11
That is not what their rules state regarding shipping firearms for repair or modification. FedEx and UPS employees often do not know their own rules regarding shipping firearms which is why I take a copy with me whenever I do this. I have had them tell me that they don't ship firearms at all or that all types of firearms shipments must go overnight which is not true.
If this is true it could save me a ton of money when I send in my M&Ps to Boresight Solutions. Could you please post this information and links to where you found it?
brushy bill
11-20-09, 23:32
I don't know if I was given bad info, but I recently sent guns back to both SIG and S&W and both times was told I HAD to ship overnight. For the SIG it didn't matter as it was on their dime, but I was not original owner on the S&W shipment so I paid. Not sure what the real requirement is.
Please C&P the relevant sections from UPS and FedEx rules then.
On UPS' Shipping Firearms page, there is no asterisk by the below paragraph that says "unless it's going to a repair shop".
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html
This may not be an up to date website entry. Stale data. I know that UPS used to require all handguns go overnight.
However, Jerrys Sport Center, a large firearms distributor, now advertises that they can send handguns by UPS 2-Day air. This is relatively new for them, probably in the last year. Jerrys made a big deal of it in their catalog when the policy changed. I doubt UPS doesn't know what they are doing. Which to me means UPS changed their policy recently.
I do NOT have any excerpts from a policy page or a link from UPS. I just see what a major and very large firearms dirstributor is doing and I doubt they are pulling a fast one on UPS.
You have to have a login at Jerrys I think to see the following policies page but here is a text excerpt:
https://www.jerryssportscenter.com/policies.php (probably does not work unless you have a Jerrys account)
8) All handguns will be shipped by UPS Second Day Air unless the customer requests Next Day Air Saver or Next Day Air in non-Air Saver areas.
I don't know about Fedex policy or changes. They usually match each others policies for this sort of thing -- Fedex followed UPS on the Next Day thing 10 years ago when UPS changed the policy on handguns to the original overnight policy
decodeddiesel
11-21-09, 10:04
This may not be an up to date website entry. Stale data. I know that UPS used to require all handguns go overnight.
However, Jerrys Sport Center, a large firearms distributor, now advertises that they can send handguns by UPS 2-Day air. This is relatively new for them, probably in the last year. Jerrys made a big deal of it in their catalog when the policy changed. I doubt UPS doesn't know what they are doing. Which to me means UPS changed their policy recently.
I do NOT have any excerpts from a policy page or a link from UPS. I just see what a major and very large firearms dirstributor is doing and I doubt they are pulling a fast one on UPS.
You have to have a login at Jerrys I think to see the following policies page but here is a text excerpt:
https://www.jerryssportscenter.com/policies.php (probably does not work unless you have a Jerrys account)
8) All handguns will be shipped by UPS Second Day Air unless the customer requests Next Day Air Saver or Next Day Air in non-Air Saver areas.
I don't know about Fedex policy or changes. They usually match each others policies for this sort of thing -- Fedex followed UPS on the Next Day thing 10 years ago when UPS changed the policy on handguns to the original overnight policy
I know UPS shipped my M&P 2nd day air to the FFL from which I picked it up from. However I am about 99.9% sure that an individual shipping to an out of state FFL it HAS to go priority overnight on UPS and FedEx.
ETA: sorry, this was from Bud's
I know UPS shipped my M&P 2nd day air to the FFL from which I picked it up from. However I am about 99.9% sure that an individual shipping to an out of state FFL it HAS to go priority overnight on UPS and FedEx.
Why do you think that they have a separate policy for non FFL returning a handgun to an FFL versus an FFL to an FFL?
The (possibly stale) link from UPS mentioned handgun shipments. It did not differentiate between non FFL to FFL and FFL to FFL. I seriously doubt that UPS has a separate policy for someone returning a handgun to an FFL or manufacturer than the one for FFL to FFL shipments. UPS is not that discriminating.
It used to be policy at UPS that all handguns had to go overnight including FFL to FFL. The simplest and most likely explanation is that they changed that to allow 2nd day air. For everyone. Other explanations do not make as much sense given a company like UPS and their relative unsophistication regarding firearms.
Why do you think that they have a separate policy for non FFL returning a handgun to an FFL versus an FFL to an FFL?
The (possibly stale) link from UPS mentioned handgun shipments. It did not differentiate between non FFL to FFL and FFL to FFL. I seriously doubt that UPS has a separate policy for someone returning a handgun to an FFL or manufacturer than the one for FFL to FFL shipments. UPS is not that discriminating.
It used to be policy at UPS that all handguns had to go overnight including FFL to FFL. The simplest and most likely explanation is that they changed that to allow 2nd day air. For everyone. Other explanations do not make as much sense given a company like UPS and their relative unsophistication regarding firearms.
Find me something different then; and that does not include a 3rd party website that says that they ship firearms via 2nd Day Air. I can't print out a page from JoeBlow'sGunShop.com and take it with me to the UPS CC and get them to agree to ship something for me 2nd Day Air. If they have changed their policy about it, they aren't telling 99% of the world about it; and the link I provided, be it "stale" or "fresh", is the most up-to-date info on UPS' website.
The only thing that helps any of us non-FFLs is something that says UPS on the top of the page.
ETA: I believe Bud's also uses 2nd Day Air, and I'd agree that UPS has to know what they are doing. My above statement stands though, it's all irrelevant for us nobodies.
decodeddiesel
11-21-09, 10:36
Why do you think that they have a separate policy for non FFL returning a handgun to an FFL versus an FFL to an FFL?
This is what I was told by an seemingly knowledgeable lady at FedEx when I sold my 1911 on Gunbroker. I freely admit that she, and therefore I could be wrong. If anyone can provide firm documentation showing that this is wrong then by all means, I am all ears. I admit I am not up on UPS because the nearest place from which I could ship a firearm with UPS is over 50 miles away, where the FedEx center is just down the street. Obviously if UPS is significantly cheaper because I can send it 2nd day then I will use UPS.
The (possibly stale) link from UPS mentioned handgun shipments. It did not differentiate between non FFL to FFL and FFL to FFL. I seriously doubt that UPS has a separate policy for someone returning a handgun to an FFL or manufacturer than the one for FFL to FFL shipments. UPS is not that discriminating.
It used to be policy at UPS that all handguns had to go overnight including FFL to FFL. The simplest and most likely explanation is that they changed that to allow 2nd day air. For everyone. Other explanations do not make as much sense given a company like UPS and their relative unsophistication regarding firearms.
True. The issue is that documentation is really hard to find on the UPS website, and calling them is simply a waste of time. Last time I called I was told by the operator that an individual cannot ship a firearm, nor ammunition (packed seperately) through UPS him or herself and you must go dealer to dealer. :rolleyes:
Find me something different then; and that does not include a 3rd party website that says that they ship firearms via 2nd Day Air. I can't print out a page from JoeBlow'sGunShop.com and take it with me to the UPS CC and get them to agree to ship something for me 2nd Day Air. The link I provided is not "stale"; if they have changed their policy about it, they aren't telling 99% of the world about it.
The only thing that helps any of us non-FFLs is something that says UPS on the top of the page.
ETA: I believe Bud's also uses 2nd Day Air, and I'd agree that UPS has to know what they are doing. My above statement stands though, it's all irrelevant for us nobodies.
How do you know it is not stale? Lots of times companies don't update their websites as timely as their policy changes happen. We both have found counter examples and the link you supplied does not provide for those counter examples to exist. Logic says that the link therefore is wrong. Since it was at one time true, all handguns did have to be shipped overnight, then the most likely explanation is that the link is stale and has not been updated to reflect a change in policy. Other possibilities exist, however or less likely.
Go ahead and ship your guns overnight. No skin off my back.
Chad
This is what I was told by an seemingly knowledgeable lady at FedEx when I sold my 1911 on Gunbroker. I freely admit that she, and therefore I could be wrong. If anyone can provide firm documentation showing that this is wrong then by all means, I am all ears. I admit I am not up on UPS because the nearest place from which I could ship a firearm with UPS is over 50 miles away, where the FedEx center is just down the street. Obviously if UPS is significantly cheaper because I can send it 2nd day then I will use UPS.
True. The issue is that documentation is really hard to find on the UPS website, and calling them is simply a waste of time. Last time I called I was told by the operator that an individual cannot ship a firearm, nor ammunition (packed seperately) through UPS him or herself and you must go dealer to dealer. :rolleyes:
When you call you need to firmly ask for someone who is in the dept that covers policy on firearms. The operators at both fedex and ups don't know a lot. Ask the person for a written copy of their policy and mention that distributors are now routinely shipping handguns by 2-day air
I do not know what Fedex policy now is.
How do you know it is not stale? Lots of times companies don't update their websites as timely as their policy changes happen. We both have found counter examples and the link you supplied does not provide for those counter examples to exist. Logic says that the link therefore is wrong. Since it was at one time true, all handguns did have to be shipped overnight, then the most likely explanation is that the link is stale and has not been updated to reflect a change in policy. Other possibilities exist, however or less likely.
Go ahead and ship your guns overnight. No skin off my back.
Chad
You're not really getting what I'm saying. What I mean by it's not stale is that there is no contravening information available from UPS (readily available).
The only thing that will allow me to ship anything other than overnight is a printout from UPS that says 2nd Day Air is acceptable. In my post, I even acknowledged your claim that some high-profile entities do ship using 2nd Day Air; but that doesn't help the average person.
Right now, stated UPS policy on both their website and in every CC I've ever been in is Next Day Air Saver or higher service. Speculation that they have changed their policy across the board is just that, speculation, until something written is produced from UPS to the contrary.
I hope you're right, I just want to see the proof.
RogerinTPA
11-21-09, 12:14
Nice work. As much as I like the long slide M&P.45 the mid size has about perfect balance.
Ditto. I have the FS M&P45, and I'm seriously considering a trade for the Midsize.
Yes I agree, the mid-size seems to balance well in my hands, and is very controllable. Actually I was able to shoot the full-size .45 well too, and it didn't feel bad. But bottom line, on this particular gun, I don't know if that extra half inch of size and the extra weight on the full-size gun really gain you much versus the mid-size. The mid-size is a nice all-around size, plus I found it fits perfectly into two different holsters I have for my M&P 9's, because it's very near to the same dimensions as the 9mm FS M&P.
decodeddiesel
11-21-09, 14:27
As much as I really love my 4.5" M&P45, the 4" seems to be the way to go.
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