View Full Version : Is this going to come back and bite us in the ass?
30 cal slut
10-10-09, 06:07
Green Berets training Iraqi special forces in CQB.
first 30 sec is a commercial
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2009/10/09/perry.iraq.mission.creep.cnn
Iraq Ninja
10-10-09, 06:15
No.
It has been going on since the early days. Nothing new here. CQB isn't rocket science, and they need it since they are doing a lot of the door kicking these days.
No.
It has been going on since the early days. Nothing new here. CQB isn't rocket science, and they need it since they are doing a lot of the door kicking these days.
Agreed, in fact teaching foreign forces is one of their main jobs.
A thousand years of hate and tribalism is embedded into the Iraq infrastructure, who is really being trained here?
The American way is not the way of the middle east. How can the stone age in treatment of, for instance females, be changed? Especially when the men do not want it changed?
What he said -this has been going on since the beginning.
I have confidence the Iraqis will find a way to **** up what they've learned while trying to prove to each other how mocho they are.
Iraq Ninja
10-10-09, 09:44
A thousand years of hate and tribalism is embedded into the Iraq infrastructure, who is really being trained here?
The American way is not the way of the middle east. How can the stone age in treatment of, for instance females, be changed? Especially when the men do not want it changed?
Scouse,
You must of had different experiences with Iraqi females. In fact, they are more liberated than other Arab countries, especially in Baghdad.
We just opened a new grade school in Hilla. The head master is a woman. I have met many Iraqi woman who hold high offices in their government. They tend to be more honest and hard working then their male counterparts.
The problem with Iraq is a deep seated tradition of corruption at all levels.
The only thing that will come back and bite us on the ass is if we do nothing to help the current Iraqi government.
Business_Casual
10-10-09, 09:52
A thousand years of hate and tribalism is embedded into the Iraq infrastructure, who is really being trained here?
Isn't the whole point of the 36th that it is made up of men from every area/tribe/militia?
M_P
RogerinTPA
10-10-09, 10:47
A thousand years of hate and tribalism is embedded into the Iraq infrastructure, who is really being trained here?
The American way is not the way of the middle east. How can the stone age in treatment of, for instance females, be changed? Especially when the men do not want it changed?
Apples to Oranges. This is the teaching of tactics. It is not the mission of the United States, to make or force, a cultural shift. It is their country. We have influenced them to a degree to be more open to allow more freedoms, BUT....change is an evolutionary process and must occur naturally, in order to be most effective, even if it does occur at a snails pace. It will be for a greater good in the long run, if it naturally progresses, with less backlash from traditionalist and hardliners. Regardless of the country.
Scouse,
You must of had different experiences with Iraqi females. In fact, they are more liberated than other Arab countries, especially in Baghdad.
We just opened a new grade school in Hilla. The head master is a woman. I have met many Iraqi woman who hold high offices in their government. They tend to be more honest and hard working then their male counterparts.
The problem with Iraq is a deep seated tradition of corruption at all levels.
The only thing that will come back and bite us on the ass is if we do nothing to help the current Iraqi government.
Big generalization, I am kind of good at putting foot in mouth!
I know we've been doing it for awhile and F.I.D is a SOCOM mission but I just feel there is something inherently wrong with teaching our potential enemies our tactics and procedures.
I am fairly certain that they are teaching "general" CQB tactics and they are not revealing their own TTP's/ SOP's. You can Google CQB and find basic shit on the net.
I know we've been doing it for awhile and F.I.D is a SOCOM mission but I just feel there is something inherently wrong with teaching our potential enemies our tactics and procedures.
Iraq Ninja
10-10-09, 14:31
Next year we will see around 140 M1 Abrams tanks with Iraqi flags on them. We already sold the tanks to Kuwait, Egypt, and Saudi.
But, the good news is that we are safe, since Itunes won't let me download songs from their store, because my IP address is in Iraq. :).
Oh, and the SAS recently trained up the Libyan special forces. Hmm, part of a larger deal maybe?
Next year we will see around 140 M1 Abrams tanks with Iraqi flags on them. We already sold the tanks to Kuwait, Egypt, and Saudi.
But, the good news is that we are safe, since Itunes won't let me download songs from their store, because my IP address is in Iraq. :).
Oh, and the SAS recently trained up the Libyan special forces. Hmm, part of a larger deal maybe?
They will train anyone, then go back in a year, and kill them all!
Outlander Systems
10-10-09, 16:05
I know we've been doing it for awhile and F.I.D is a SOCOM mission but I just feel there is something inherently wrong with teaching our potential enemies our tactics and procedures.
I wouldn't lose sleep over it. Form what I've been hearing, teaching the Iraqis advanced combat tactics is akin to teaching your dog how to type.
They get very specific instruction. ;)
its about the same as your basic infantry grunt would have. maybe less. they need all the help they can get, they are one of the few groups that have a chance of saving that POS country. Iraq needs alot more time/training then it is going to get. corruption/ignorance/stupidity is just a way of life there. i would be surprised if they can keep the Abrams running for more then a year. hell they cant keep the hmmwvs we have giving them running w/o our help.
At least they aren't right across the border like the Zetas.
Iraq Ninja
10-11-09, 00:34
One aspect that the Shia have us beat at is religious dedication.
http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/3029996.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19390335F8FA9CA92A604FEFEA761309E925732FE9FFAE3DA8A
Most of you have never experienced the sight of thousands of pilgrims marching to one of the Iraqi religious sites. Imagine a highway full of black clad pilgrims of all ages for as far as you can see. Children, the elderly, the handicapped all try and make it. Most of them travel for hundreds of miles with little on their backs.
They don't worry about where to sleep, since the people in the towns gladly open up their homes to the travelers. Free food and drink is also given out on route.
I doubt 5% of the folks back home could complete such a journey, let alone even be motivated for such an ordeal.
It is this dedication to their religion that may our greatest threat in the long term.
RogerinTPA
10-11-09, 09:40
One aspect that the Shia have us beat at is religious dedication.
http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/3029996.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19390335F8FA9CA92A604FEFEA761309E925732FE9FFAE3DA8A
Most of you have never experienced the sight of thousands of pilgrims marching to one of the Iraqi religious sites. Imagine a highway full of black clad pilgrims of all ages for as far as you can see. Children, the elderly, the handicapped all try and make it. Most of them travel for hundreds of miles with little on their backs.
They don't worry about where to sleep, since the people in the towns gladly open up their homes to the travelers. Free food and drink is also given out on route.
I doubt 5% of the folks back home could complete such a journey, let alone even be motivated for such an ordeal.
It is this dedication to their religion that may our greatest threat in the long term.
Agreed. Add to that the extreme fanaticism that it can be morphed into, under the guise of religion.
rrpederson
10-11-09, 10:14
One aspect that the Shia have us beat at is religious dedication.
http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/3029996.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19390335F8FA9CA92A604FEFEA761309E925732FE9FFAE3DA8A
Most of you have never experienced the sight of thousands of pilgrims marching to one of the Iraqi religious sites. Imagine a highway full of black clad pilgrims of all ages for as far as you can see. Children, the elderly, the handicapped all try and make it. Most of them travel for hundreds of miles with little on their backs.
They don't worry about where to sleep, since the people in the towns gladly open up their homes to the travelers. Free food and drink is also given out on route.
I doubt 5% of the folks back home could complete such a journey, let alone even be motivated for such an ordeal.
It is this dedication to their religion that may our greatest threat in the long term.
the last sentence of this quote is what concerns me the most. if im not mistaken, and if i am, please correct/educate me, but isnt the muslim faith, dedicated to peace after all the christians and jews are killed, enslaved or converted to islam?
like i said please correct me if im wrong.
the last sentence of this quote is what concerns me the most. if im not mistaken, and if i am, please correct/educate me, but isnt the muslim faith, dedicated to peace after all the christians and jews are killed, enslaved or converted to islam?
like i said please correct me if im wrong.
That is a conclusion easily come to if one studies the history of Islam written and preserved by their own people. Slaves and tribute payments are well documented.
Off to bed, I'm required to labor to support my family, make insurance payments, utility payments, credit card payments, fuel payments, taxes, and have money left for the groceries. Glad I'm debt free and own the house and cars. At least I'm getting used to the new store and work routine since I was involuntarily transferred to another with twice the business. The worst that could happen is to aggravate my arthritis in my back, which it hasn't, but my feet are killing me with the extra walking, and the phones ringing in my ear are teaching me to read lips better.
Not that I'm complaining, of course, because that's not acceptable in today's society. One needs to project a sense that everyday life is wonderful, we are all teammates working for the owner's good, and try not to focus on the difficult circumstances of living in an area of the state where most of us get paid at 74% of the national average.
Gosh, fighting Islamic slavery would be a change. Yes, dear, I'm putting up the netbook! And taking my pills!
ThirdWatcher
10-12-09, 00:44
This is one of the primary reasons we have Special Forces. SF has a proud history of training the locals in how to protect themselves and their community. The alternative is to remain in their country and provide protection and law and order for them.
I know it's going to take an even greater investment, but I look forward to the day our warriors leave Iraq.
1859sharps
10-12-09, 01:19
Next year we will see around 140 M1 Abrams tanks with Iraqi flags on them. We already sold the tanks to Kuwait, Egypt, and Saudi.
But, the good news is that we are safe, since Itunes won't let me download songs from their store, because my IP address is in Iraq. :).
Oh, and the SAS recently trained up the Libyan special forces. Hmm, part of a larger deal maybe?
I sure hope that means the m1 is "obsolete" and we have something better in the pipeline. giving away our tank and/or our advanced weapons to anyone bugs me more then teaching basic infantry skills to a potential future combatant.
ThirdWatcher
10-12-09, 04:33
It is my understanding that there are "export models" (of jets, tanks, etc.) that have less sophisticated electronics than the versions our military uses.
It is my understanding that there are "export models" (of jets, tanks, etc.) that have less sophisticated electronics than the versions our military uses.
Agree, plus our pilots and tankers are better!
I sure hope that means the m1 is "obsolete" and we have something better in the pipeline. giving away our tank and/or our advanced weapons to anyone bugs me more then teaching basic infantry skills to a potential future combatant.
ever seen an iraqi drive or shoot? its pretty funny, they suck, badly. i hope im here to see an iraqi one rolling down the road. there will be 20 iraqi army inside and another 20 riding around on top of it w/o armor or a helmet and their AK w/ sawed off buttstock.
Agreed. Add to that the extreme fanaticism that it can be morphed into, under the guise of religion.
Faithful practice of Islam requires extreme fanaticism. Most people could do themselves a world of good by reading the Koran and its supporting documents.
These guys aren't charismatic Pentecostals........
the last sentence of this quote is what concerns me the most. if im not mistaken, and if i am, please correct/educate me, but isnt the muslim faith, dedicated to peace after all the christians and jews are killed, enslaved or converted to islam?
like i said please correct me if im wrong.
You aren't wrong.
Until the entire world is under Islamic hegemony and has either accepted that Allah is the one true (g)od and Muhammed is his prophet, or paid the jizya and felt themselves subdued there will be no end to the violence.
This is how a virulent Jew and Christian hating, terrorist-supporting imam can say he is a man of peace and is working to world peace without a hint of irony.
Iraq Ninja
10-12-09, 18:01
ever seen an iraqi drive or shoot? its pretty funny, they suck, badly.
Never underestimate a potential enemy.
The Iraqi who shot me was damn good with a PKM.
Never underestimate a potential enemy.
The Iraqi who shot me was damn good with a PKM.
hopefully he isnt one of the ones who got away and joined the IA or IPs ;).
RogerinTPA
10-13-09, 16:34
Faithful practice of Islam requires extreme fanaticism. Most people could do themselves a world of good by reading the Koran and its supporting documents.
These guys aren't charismatic Pentecostals........
Most people would find, if they did some research, that there are many facets of Islam. Example, there is a stark contrast between the extreme fanaticism prevalent in North African Muslims and their teaching and practices, compared to Sub-Saharan Muslims.
1859sharps
10-14-09, 00:25
Never underestimate a potential enemy.
The Iraqi who shot me was damn good with a PKM.
not to mention with all the lead that can be in the air in a fight, no matter how much the opposition may allegedly suck, there is always the random lucky (unlucky) round finding it's target.
rifleman2000
10-14-09, 10:05
Next year we will see around 140 M1 Abrams tanks with Iraqi flags on them. We already sold the tanks to Kuwait, Egypt, and Saudi.
The tanks are downgraded from our issue vehicles. I think they have standard armor, which is far less capable than the classified stuff we use.
Most people would find, if they did some research, that there are many facets of Islam. Example, there is a stark contrast between the extreme fanaticism prevalent in North African Muslims and their teaching and practices, compared to Sub-Saharan Muslims.
The Koran, the hadith, and the commentaries are what they are. If the practitioners are "moderate" it is likely that they are unfamiliar with them. Remember, the faithful Muslim must learn to recite the prayers and "read" the Koran in Arabic, that they are unable to understand what they are saying or "reading" is irrelevant. That the overwhelming majority of Muslims aren't actually Arabs is of great consequence when one considers "moderate" Islam. This also has some bearing on the fact that most Islamist jihadis are Arabs.
Besides, I suspect the non-Muslim Christians and animists in the Sudan would contest your view of sub-Saharan Islam. That is, the ones who are still alive.
RogerinTPA
10-17-09, 18:38
The Koran, the hadith, and the commentaries are what they are. If the practitioners are "moderate" it is likely that they are unfamiliar with them.
I disagree. Yours is an opinion that most "moderates" wouldn't agree with either.
Remember, the faithful Muslim must learn to recite the prayers and "read" the Koran in Arabic, that they are unable to understand what they are saying or "reading" is irrelevant. That the overwhelming majority of Muslims aren't actually Arabs is of great consequence when one considers "moderate" Islam. This also has some bearing on the fact that most Islamist jihadis are Arabs.
Besides, I suspect the non-Muslim Christians and animists in the Sudan would contest your view of sub-Saharan Islam. That is, the ones who are still alive.
I am quite familiar with the teachings of Islam. Despite a small sample of radicals, in few areas, as in Sudan/Darfur, that doesn't rank/stamp it as a majority of Sub-Sahara, or other geological locations. It isn't my exclusive view, but rather an "estimate" I was briefed on, in a former occupation, but some of my Israeli friends would beg to differ with you.
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