Consensus on most reliable AR mags? [Archive]

maximus83

10-10-09, 15:53

It seems like over the last few years, the consensus on what types of AR mags (for 5.56) were the most reliable has shifted around somewhat. Maybe that's not the case, but anyway that's been my impression. For a while, it seemed like a lot of folks were leaning toward stainless (like those expensive HK mags) due to their overall strength, but then that fad went away, I think mostly due to the expense and weight of the HK mags. Then the rage was polymer mags, esp Magpul (of which I have a good supply). And they do seem like solid mags to me, I've never had any problems with them. But lately it appears that some have questioned the long term reliability of polymer mags, even Magpul's, so you see a lot of folks returning to "classic" type milspec aluminum mags.

So, IS there any consensus lately on what types of mags are the most all-around reliable? If I want to stock up my long-term supply of mags, is the Magpul Pmag (or some similar polymer) still the all-around most reliable choice, or would I be better advised to balance my supply a bit, and return to a classic aluminum mag. Im talking about something like the milspec DSG/D&H/NHMTG mags, or an improved milspec mag like the Brownells versions.

Outlander Systems

10-10-09, 15:59

If I want to stock up my long-term supply of mags, is the Magpul Pmag...

Short answer, yes. The Magpul PMAGs are the only magazines that I've had little to no feeding issues with.

FWIW, when I say little, I mean negligible, and possibly debatable.

Iraqgunz

10-10-09, 16:17

gruntinhusaybah

10-10-09, 17:05

I haven't really seen a trend of people going back to USGI mags. I don't see a reason they would. As far as long term reliability, I have 5 PMAGS that I have been having shooters at work use for the past year or so, these mags have app. 100,000 through the 5 of them and I've seen 0 strictly magazine related malfs.

As Iraqgunz said, you can't be in love with your mags, they are a dispossable part of your kit, as soon as one gives you problems, you try rebuilding it and if that doesn't work you toss it

Blankwaffe

10-10-09, 17:14

In my shooting sessions I have yet to experience any malfunctions with PMAG's. And of course as we have debated and discusses here 100 x people need to leave behind their love affair with their magazines.

+1
I used to try and refinish and rebuild magazines as if I had some sort of personal attachment to the mags.Well that was back during the AWB when high capacity mags were hard to come by for the most part.Those days gone,I generally treat mags as disposable items.Inspect,test and replace when no longer reliable.At the current price of aluminum mags today its not affordable to try and rebuild a magazine much less suffer with reliability issues that goes along with worn or damaged mags.
I generally just buy ten packs of aluminum USGI magazines from Bravo or DSG whenever I place an order.Rarely have I seen a defective new USGI magazine that was from a quality supplier other than just blatant defects.
For years I hated any of the polymer magazines due to past experiences with thermolds.But recently I broke down and tried a few PMAG's and my initial gut feeling is that they are not easily damaged.For example I have not seen one of the PMAG's spread from being loaded for a long period,and if dropped, stepped or fallen on they do not dent or deform.The PMAGs durability in that area gives them a huge advantage over the thin aluminum mags as that has been my primary failure point with magazines well before they wear out.
Other than normal wear and tear the only thing that I could see affecting the PMAG's in the very long term would be heat,chemicals and environmentals.Basically the same issues with any magazine and when that day comes the magazine just needs to be replaced.
So buy a bunch...when they wear out replace them.

Steve in PA

10-10-09, 17:29

Never had an issue with any of the USGI style magazines I have. All are made by Bushmaster, CProducts, AR Stoner and some genuine USGI mags. Replaced the old ones with new springs, bases and followers.

I've run them through numerous law enforcement schools, qualifications, training events and general shooting. Not one magazine failure. Guess I didn't need to jump on the Pmag bandwagon.

Ak44

10-10-09, 20:07

I've had problems with USGI mags. I replaced the followers and never had problems. Pmag's are fantastic but I like to keep a nice mix of usgi mags w/ magpul followers and pmags. :cool:

YVK

10-10-09, 20:39

I've not had any functional issues with BCM mags with Magpul followers, Magpul mags, and TangoDown ARC mags. I've had one structural breakage with Magpul mag that didn't affect function. I've had functional problems with CP and Lancer mags.

ST911

10-10-09, 21:18

I like my PMags very much. New purchases are PMags, almost without exception. I like my TD ARC mags as well, and have about two dozen in use. There's no reason to throw away GI mags. I don't buy many though, so they'll eventually be gone through attrition.

The one thing I like about GI mags is that they are a little more size efficient. I prefer them in certain aps where space is at a premium.

Quentin

10-10-09, 23:47

GI mags work and they are cheap. Plus they have an honest blue collar look in the rifle. Can't see much reason to spend more for something else.

Iraqgunz

10-11-09, 00:10

Generally speaking you are paying almost the same for a quality aluminum mag as you would for a PMAG. The average PMAG price is about 13.00 and the average aluminum mag is about 10.00.

GI mags work and they are cheap. Plus they have an honest blue collar look in the rifle. Can't see much reason to spend more for something else.

Belmont31R

10-11-09, 02:16

My favorite mags are NHMTG/Colt straight body 20rders and PMAG's.

For some reason Ive NEVER had a single feeding issue with the 20rd mags. Can't recall any with PMAG's either.

CProducts mags....even with Magpul followers cause me all kinds of grief. I just threw 2 of them away this weekend because they keep causing jams. They are range only for me, and I am going to be tossing any that cause issues and replaced with PMAG's.

Armati

10-11-09, 08:08

In general, you should treat mags as semi disposable. Yes, you always want to recover your mags, but you should not have a heart attack if you loose one while running and gunning.

I like the USGI mags because I have tons of them. If they are USGI mags, make sure to check that the feed ramps are correct. Not all USGI contract mags are created equal. I have reconditioned my old mags and you can buy some beater mags in bulk from time to time from various surplus outfits. The main thing is to check the feed ramps. Just sort out the good ones, give them a shot of SFL, and replace the follower with the Magpul followers. In most cases, you will not have to replace the springs. But, should you need to replace the spring I like Wolff Springs or the braided springs from CMMG.

RogerinTPA

10-11-09, 09:07

CProducts mags....even with Magpul followers cause me all kinds of grief. I just threw 2 of them away this weekend because they keep causing jams. They are range only for me, and I am going to be tossing any that cause issues and replaced with PMAG's.

Ditto. Even after rebuilding the 10 Cprods I bought a few years ago, had nothing but problems. I shitcanned them. I own a lot of DSG, BCM and NHMTG USGI mags with Magpul followers, and over 100 Magpul mags.

dbrowne1

10-11-09, 09:47

I like the USGI mags because I have tons of them. If they are USGI mags, make sure to check that the feed ramps are correct. Not all USGI contract mags are created equal. I have reconditioned my old mags and you can buy some beater mags in bulk from time to time from various surplus outfits. The main thing is to check the feed ramps.

I'm assuming you mean the feed lips. The ones that are obvious FAILS are easy to discard, but I can tell you from frustrating experience that sometimes magazines that look fine and have solid feed lips can still cause malfunctions. I had several, about 3 years ago, that didn't have any visible or movable flaws in the feed lips but were causing malfunctions left and right. The classic magazine-induced doublefeed. I finally weeded through them and figured out which ones were bad, by trial and error.

I just shitcanned them. No sense trying to perform diagnosis and surgery on a $8 part.

markm

10-11-09, 10:02

The Stainless Steel spring brownells SOCOM tan mags are so cheap at Bravo Company, that I'd have a hard time ordering Pmags at this point.

Failure2Stop

10-11-09, 10:15

I prefer to have a magazine that is functionally robust. I don't just want it to work, I want it keep working after taking a beating, and the only magazine so far in my experience that sits head and shoulders above the others in that regard are PMags.

Rebuilt GI Mags with magpul follower and a good spring are good, but will not stand up to the abuse that a PMag can.
HK mags are good until a bit of force collapses the tube or bends the feedlips, which are not problems with the PMag.

lostwake

10-11-09, 10:35

+1 for the HK mags

PMAGS are by far the best polymer mag out there. HK mags are what like 50 bucks each. Probly the reason I only have one. Just stay away from the tapco mags. I saw a guy shooting his mini 14 with a tapco mag and it wouldnt even get half full before it started spitting out rounds.

scottryan

10-11-09, 10:41

OKay or NHMTG or PMAG/EMAGs are the best.

I wish magpul would have made the PMAG like the EMAG in the first place.

I am also wanting a windowless EMAG and will not be buying anymore PMAGs as the EMAG is compatible with everything.

YVK

10-11-09, 10:52

...as the EMAG is compatible with everything.

This is a big attraction point to me. Have you had any issues with overinsertion? Magpul kind of warns about it, but I don't know if it is just theoretical or real.

bkb0000

10-11-09, 11:00

the Emag is a true STANAG mag, then? i thought i remembered reading that they worked fine for some european guns but not so well in ARs for some reason- bullshit?

------------------------------------

i've only had one malfunction since using pmags for the last year, about 11k-12k rounds. bolt over based firing suppressed with Federal .223 50gr HP in a really dirty gun. bullet was mashed at the nose and set back in the cartridge- fed too slow, i guess. i drilled a hole through the mag just to be on the safe side.

its been conclusive evidence for me.. pmags are righteous.

i do still use STANAG mags, though. diversity is reliability.

bill_d

10-11-09, 11:06

Jay Cunningham

10-11-09, 11:11

Okay, NHMTG and Colt are all mil-spec mags built to the TDP. All "mil-spec" aluminum mags are not created equal... just like ARs.

scottryan

10-11-09, 13:21

scott,
on the OKay and NHMTG aluminums,
what are you finding to be superior?
hardness
design points
superior raw materials

i am comparing them to , for instance,
the dsg teflon coated mags
made on the former labelle machinery.

any interesting history there?

The NHMTG and Okays are the most consistent as far as dropping free and have the seam in the rear that is flat and square.

Some lesser brands, the seam in the rear doesn't lay flat but bulges slightly inbetween the spot welds.

DSG magazine with the telfon coating are not milspec. I have some of these and the material doesn't seem to feel as thick. The ones I have are about 5 years old. I do not know what DSG sells now.

I also dont care for chrome silicon springs.

bkb0000

10-11-09, 13:42

I also dont care for chrome silicon springs.

whys that?

scottryan

10-11-09, 14:36

whys that?

Because it is weaker material and rusts. I don't care how resistant it is to taking a set. I've never felt my SS magazine springs for any of my firearms "took a set" and that I needed to worry about this.

If they did, I would throw out the old spring and get a new one.

kennith13

10-12-09, 03:53

I have enjoyed the heck out of my Pmags. I am very impressed with both their performance and durability. In my experience, they are superior to the GI mags in most ways.

I still keep GI mags around, however, for a few reasons.

There is room in the world for both types of mags. When reaching for one to go use, however, I almost always grab a Pmag.

The darned things just lock in so solid and index so much better, it's almost a sin. They are a pleasure to use.

markm

10-12-09, 09:13

Because it is weaker material and rusts. I don't care how resistant it is to taking a set. I've never felt my SS magazine springs for any of my firearms "took a set" and that I needed to worry about this.

If they did, I would throw out the old spring and get a new one.

Amen to this.

This can NOT be said enough! There's a reason that PMAGs/Emags don't come with the CS springs. They failed the corrosion testing miserably.

People who think they NEED the CS springs are not seeing the big picture in my opinion.

Eric

10-12-09, 09:28

CS springs look like this after being pulled from storage. Yes the mag still worked, but the spring was replaced with a standard SS one. Rust anywhere in the system is unacceptable.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/AR15forme/USGI%20Mag%20Disassembly/IMG_6085.jpg

Outlander Systems

10-12-09, 09:35

The above is why the TAPCO magazines aren't what they could have been.

Despite feeding well, and functioning well, this is definitely the weak link in those mags.

Magpul set the new standard for magazines, and TAPCO was given the opportunity to take the ball and run with it, but took a step backwards, in my humble opinion.

Why, I do not know.

Lumpy196

10-12-09, 10:00

+1 for the HK mags

PMAGS are by far the best polymer mag out there. HK mags are what like 50 bucks each. Probly the reason I only have one.

You endorse the HK mag based on being in possession of one of them?

Mute

10-12-09, 10:57

I have yet to try any magazine that's more reliable than the Pmag. Others might be as reliable but not more.

kwelz

10-12-09, 18:55

I have yet to try any magazine that's more reliable than the Pmag. Others might be as reliable but not more.

QFT!!

DacoRoman

10-12-09, 19:42

YVK

10-12-09, 19:57

What problems have you had with the Lancer mags?

1. I've had a weird problem of failure to strip a round from the mag during the fire. I couldn't explain it and never asked any questions - thought maybe my carbine or I were at fault. Later on I came across a report of exactly same problem on another message board. Still have no clue what that meant, but at least I am not imagining it.

2. I've had 2 fully loaded Lancers drop - back to back, one after another - from my rifle after a reload during the drill. This certainly could've been my error of not fully seating those magazines. However, given that during 4 classes taken over last 1.5 years those were the only two instances of mags falling out of my rifle, I have to question mags too.

3. Lancers do not allow for a bolt lock on empty mag with SCAR, nor do they allow dropping the bolt with bolt release button on that weapon.

Sierrahotel83

10-13-09, 01:55

I too have had that problem with the Lancer... I didn't think much of it until I read the last post. I went back and watched the video I had from the range that day. I inserted a half loaded mag into my rifle with the bolt closed, I used the same force I have used for Pmags and USGI mags and when I tried to charge the rifle it started to fall from the rifle.:( after reading the above post I am pretty sure it is going to be a range mag...
IMO Pmags rock:D

Armati

10-15-09, 08:05

I'm assuming you mean the feed lips. The ones that are obvious FAILS are easy to discard, but I can tell you from frustrating experience that sometimes magazines that look fine and have solid feed lips can still cause malfunctions....

I just shitcanned them. No sense trying to perform diagnosis and surgery on a $8 part.

Yes - feed lips! Don't mind me, my mind tends to wander.

But yes, bad contract mags are not worth messing with. You really can't fix them. I'll try to get some pics up of what to look for at the feed lip area.

Fontaine

10-15-09, 16:43

I've got 30+ Pmags, and i've numbered them all.

One mag, purchased in early 2008 fails to lock back on a empty mag with a Noveske N4 upper.

No problems with Lancers (i keep them loaded at 28, very hard to seat at 30) and P-mags so far.

I have honestly tried to abuse my Lancers, and they've held up quite well. I toss PMAGs and Lancers loaded/half loaded onto concrete frequently. A while back, I was going to weekly rifle league matches at an indoor range.

Hell_Bent

10-15-09, 18:29

PMags have become my defacto standard in AR mags. I've probably got 3 or 4 dozen GI mags, and have no problem using them - but I realize that's culled down from the 5 or 6 dozen I had a few years back. As I wear one out, I toss it or keep it in a range bag for training and replace it with PMags.

Out of all the PMags I've picked up over the years, I have yet to cull one due to reliability. The first one I ever bought is still hanging out in a mag shingle - unable to be picked out from the last one I bought aside from my markings... I've never been one to keep "round counts" on individual mags, but knowing my ammo purchase history and the number of PMags I own coupled with my shooting habits - I know that they've surpassed the round counts on my aluminum mags that I've depleted by nearly half over a similar time frame. Short story - One type of mags is attriting at a marked rate, and the other is staying more or less static...

Hell, aside from 6.8 mags, I can't remember the last time I bought anything other than a PMag...

There may be other "niche" mags floating around that excel in some category or other - but for bone reliable, rugged, not-gonna-****-me-over-and-leave-me-doing-a-suprise-mag-change-at-the-worst-possible-moment magazines, the PMag is it for my money...

Wish like hell some evil genius would find a way to adapt them to the 6.8 - I'd ARgasm...

tirod

10-16-09, 22:03

What magazines are the 6.8 shooters using in A?

DacoRoman

10-16-09, 22:29

No problems with Lancers (i keep them loaded at 28, very hard to seat at 30) and P-mags so far.

I noticed that about the Lancers as well, and I've downloaded them to 28 to avert the problem, whereas with the P mags they seat well even with the 30 rnds. I even emailed the Magpul guys, who were extremely responsive and extremely informative, to ask them if the Pmag needed to be downloaded for any reason and they responded that the Pmag was designed from the beginning to be stored fully loaded with 30 rounds and to also have enough remaining spring compressibility so as to allow easy seating when the full 30 rounds are loaded, which has proven to be exactly the case in my experience.

YVK

10-16-09, 22:39

Magpul Dynamics guys do acknowledge the fact that PMAG was designed as a true 30 rounds magazine, yet still recommend downloading. Somebody somewhere must have had a problem seating those too.

DacoRoman

10-16-09, 23:37

Magpul Dynamics guys do acknowledge the fact that PMAG was designed as a true 30 rounds magazine, yet still recommend downloading. Somebody somewhere must have had a problem seating those too.

Interesting that some at Magpul recommend downloading. I emailed Justin Beard at Tech Support earlier this year and this is the response I received:

Thanks for writing to us. We recommend using the full 30-round capacity of the magazine. The PMAG is designed to allow for correct seating in this condition on a closed bolt. Also, we have not seen detrimental spring relaxation from this type of use including long-term storage with the Impact Cover in place. If you have any further questions please contact:
....

n

Quib

10-17-09, 07:57

I finally got with the times (I know, I know, it‘s about time Quib!), and purchased a few PMags and some Magpul Followers to swap out with the GI green Followers in a few of my BCM Teflon Mags.

I’m pretty impressed with the anti-tilt ability of the Magpul Followers.

Taking a No.2 pencil and pressing on the GI Follower, I could easily get the Follower to tilt. With the modified BCM Teflon Mags with Magpul Followers....I could not.

So yea, rag on ol’ Quib for not getting with the program. :p But I can see more Magpul Followers in my future to upgrade my current stock of GI mags. And, a few more PMags as well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/Swap.jpg

6933

10-17-09, 09:37

Disclaimer: My sample size was only two Lancers I ran in a two day carbine class recently. Had problems with both. Could have been two bad mags and the majority of Lancers are fine. Will buy several more to give a fair chance. Rotated 10 PMags in/out and had zero issues.

YVK

10-17-09, 10:38

Interesting that some at Magpul recommend downloading.

I should've been more specific in saying that Chris Costa recommends downloading them.

Hardchrome

10-18-09, 21:04

Pmags +1

DacoRoman

10-18-09, 23:58

I should've been more specific in saying that Chris Costa recommends downloading them.

Bottom line is that I guess it never really hurts to download to 28.

bkb0000

10-19-09, 00:11

Bottom line is that I guess it never really hurts to download to 28.

i've never downloaded pmags, not in the year and half i've been using them, and never had seating problems. it's probably been mentioned, but pmags are actually 31 round magazines.. so by loading to 30, you're already downloading.

Quib

10-19-09, 05:39

i've never downloaded pmags, not in the year and half i've been using them, and never had seating problems. it's probably been mentioned, but pmags are actually 31 round magazines.. so by loading to 30, you're already downloading.

Playing around with my new PMags, this was one of the first things I was interested in checking out.

Looking through the window of a loaded to full capacity magazine, it was easy to observe the rounds giving way to the bolt carrier.

And there was definitely less resistance locking a full 30 rd PMag into place compared to a full GI 30 rd mag.

ST911

10-19-09, 09:33

Magpul Dynamics guys do acknowledge the fact that PMAG was designed as a true 30 rounds magazine, yet still recommend downloading. Somebody somewhere must have had a problem seating those too.

I have some PMags that will seat easily with 30rds, and some that won't. None of my Lancers will seat with 30. The only mag I've seen consistently seat with the full 30rds has been the TD ARC.

Belmont31R

10-19-09, 10:55

I load PMAG's to 30 and GI mags to 28.

GI mag's loaded to 30 seem to cause issues getting the 1st round stripped out of the mag reliably. Not a lot but enough for me to just keep it to 28, and also avoid any issues seating the mag on a closed bolt. Never had any of these issues with my PMAG's which I have around 40 of.

tirod

10-20-09, 09:59

It invites the question why a "premium" magazine hasn't been developed with the clockspring design, appropriate feed lip strength, and dent proof body.

Clockspring magazines have been around for a hundred years, and don't stack pressure like coils - the first round out has the same pressure as the last, and there's no thumb busting to load. Full mag inserts on a closed bolt don't take any more push than a mag loaded with one round.

It goes to show the AR market isn't fully developed yet - it's gonna be fun.

87GN

10-21-09, 19:57

Amen to this.

This can NOT be said enough! There's a reason that PMAGs/Emags don't come with the CS springs. They failed the corrosion testing miserably.

People who think they NEED the CS springs are not seeing the big picture in my opinion.

I have two TD ARC magazines that have uncoated CS springs.

I have intentionally induced rust in both. Way worse than the picture on page 2.

One has over 2500 rounds without any malfunctions (it's also the original "military" style with the magwell seal), the other is at ~300, no malfunctions.

My other TD ARC mag springs won't rust - because they have a very expensive coating.

Both of these springs were subjected to the same force at the same time - CS left, SS right. The CS spring went on to live in a well worn HK magazine and fixed its malfunction issues.

http://azbattlerifles.com/images/DSC043422.JPG

Cold

10-21-09, 20:20

87GN

You need your own forum for posts like that, keep em coming.

On the ARC mags:

Are the ARC mags for sale? I dont see them carried anyplace? Or am I not looking in the right place. I checked the TD site and searched ARC, said only through dealers and I havent seen anyone with them posted on their site yet. Ar

87GN

10-21-09, 20:27