View Full Version : Oath Keepers
Outlander Systems
10-10-09, 16:11
Anyone know anything about this?
http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/EndoftheAeon/oathkeeper.jpg
NCPatrolAR
10-10-09, 16:16
Its a group founded by the "enemy at the gate" columnist Stewart Rhodes (SWAT Magazine). I've only glanced at their material/website; but some of it strikes me as the black helicopter/Mark from Michigan type stuff I saw back in the early 90s
Here is a thread talking about the group somewhat:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=28902&highlight=oath+keepers
montanadave
10-10-09, 16:44
Tin hat Alex Jones bullshit.
If that photo is of any active duty soldier in the armed forces of the United States (which I sincerely doubt), that individual might want to remove those patches post haste.
Outlander Systems
10-10-09, 16:49
Roger that.
Found it here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=229934
Tin hat Alex Jones bullshit.
Yeah, being proud of an oath you took is dumb. Can't believe them, geeze.
I can't believe they're spouting out that drivel. "We won't disarm American citizens!" How dare they!
It's entirely possible that he is either active duty or National Guard.
NCPatrolAR
10-10-09, 19:31
Are those patches allowed per 670-1?
I know Stewart personally, I've attended several of his classes on the Constitution and related law. He is extremely knowledgable on these subjects, I believe his law degree is from Yale. Some of his stuff may get close to "black helicopter" stuff, but he's no Alex Jones. He did serve in the Army, but I'm not sure in what capacity.
Judging by the commo gear on his chest I would say the photo is from a Land Warrior equipped Stryker Bde in Iraq. Most likely a quick photo snapped then their unit patch reinstalled, but many units have been loose with wearing various patches in the past ala the 101st and 3 ID wearing patches on their helmets.
The young guys are going through a lot and a few idiots in their midst with dumb ideals that is not dealt with can lead to stupid stuff like this. Coping can take many forms.
The young guys are going through a lot and a few idiots in their midst with dumb ideals that is not dealt with can lead to stupid stuff like this. Coping can take many forms.
Dumb ideals? Please explain.
Tin hat Alex Jones bullshit.
If that photo is of any active duty soldier in the armed forces of the United States (which I sincerely doubt), that individual might want to remove those patches post haste.
What We Are Not
We are Not advocating or promoting the overthrow of any government whether local, state or national. We want our governments to return to the Constitutional Republic which the Declaration of Independence and the
Constitution defined and instituted.
We are Not advocating or promoting violence towards any organization, group or person. We are determined to Keep our Oath to support and defend the Constitution.
We are not advocating or promoting the removal of any person from his or her elected office. We want all elected persons to live up to their Oath to “support and defend the Constitution” as it is written or to leave of their own volition.
We are not advocating or promoting that anyone in the Judicial Branch be removed or replaced. We want the Justices in the Judicial Branch to follow the Constitution as written without interpretation.
We are not advocating or promoting any particular form of government other than the Constitutional Republic which the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution defined and instituted.
We are not advocating or promoting the rewriting of the Constitution nor are we asking for an Amendment thereto. We are insisting on the Constitution being Enforced as it is written.
We are Not advocating or promoting any act or acts of aggression against any organization or person for any
reason including, but not limited to; race, religion, national origin, political affiliation, gender or sexual orientation.
We hope for a return to a Constitutional Republic free from fear and hatred. We hate only tyranny.
We are Oath Sworn Americans who want the Constitution returned to its legal and rightful place, intact, as the ultimate Law of the Land.
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/about/
Yeah. What a bunch of jackasses.
:rolleyes:
Are those patches allowed per 670-1?
no they aren't, no morale patches allowed unless your in coveralls/flight suit and chop off the pen flap. if its somewhere in the sandbox its probably random fobbit/retard private for an internet photo op, doesn't realize the impact of what he is wearing will have. if stateside just a typical armchair commando with too much time/money on his hands trying to cause a ruckus online. as much as i hate what is going on now, the country isn't the same as it was 10 years ago, and its even further so from when the constitution was written, and i dont see it changing anytime soon.
NCPatrolAR
10-10-09, 20:58
Yeah. What a bunch of jackasses.
:rolleyes:
Some of the youtube videos Ive seen involving Oath Keepers scream black helicopters.
Is the organization legit? I dont know at this point, but I certainly dont want my name attached to it.
montanadave
10-10-09, 21:38
Members of the armed forces take a service oath when they enlist which stipulates quite clearly their duties and the chain of command. I fail to see the necessity of taking an additional oath, regardless of how well-intentioned it may appear.
Oath Keepers can write up their pledges and wrap themselves in the American flag, but the leadership is aligned with conspiracy theorists expounding the dangers of the New World Order, the Bilderburgers, and a host of other nebulous and nefarious organizations which have purportedly usurped the civilian leadership of this nation.
The military forces of this country are under civilian control of an elected representative government. By questioning the authenticity and authority of that civilian government, these people are, in fact, questioning the authority of the chain of command.
And that's a dangerous thing. A very dangerous thing.
Members of the armed forces take a service oath when they enlist which stipulates quite clearly their duties and the chain of command. I fail to see the necessity of taking an additional oath, regardless of how well-intentioned it may appear.
Oath Keepers can write up their pledges and wrap themselves in the American flag, but the leadership is aligned with conspiracy theorists expounding the dangers of the New World Order, the Bilderburgers, and a host of other nebulous and nefarious organizations which have purportedly usurped the civilian leadership of this nation.
The military forces of this country are under civilian control of an elected representative government. By questioning the authenticity and authority of that civilian government, these people are, in fact, questioning the authority of the chain of command.
And that's a dangerous thing. A very dangerous thing.
I'm not seeing this on their website. If you have substantiation for that, please post it.
Oath Keepers can write up their pledges and wrap themselves in the American flag, but the leadership is aligned with conspiracy theorists expounding the dangers of the New World Order, the Bilderburgers, and a host of other nebulous and nefarious organizations which have purportedly usurped the civilian leadership of this nation.
The military forces of this country are under civilian control of an elected representative government. By questioning the authenticity and authority of that civilian government, these people are, in fact, questioning the authority of the chain of command.
Strange, in all the times I've talked to him, I've never heard any of these things out of Stewart's mouth. I don't see a problem with taking an oath that you won't obey an order that's contrary to the oath you've taken to support the Constitution, such as firing on American citizens, or obeying an order to disarm American citizens and throw out the 2nd Amendment. But if you have sources that cite Stewart's link to these nefarious groups, please feel free to cite them.
Remember, if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.
Is the organization legit? I dont know at this point, but I certainly dont want my name attached to it.
Maybe you should contact Stewart and find out for yourself.
edmorseiii
10-10-09, 21:56
I find it funny how quick people are to jump on a band wagon with out actually looking into what a group is about. All Oathkeeper's is about is fallowing the constitution that they swore to defend and not fallowing orders that would go against the "domestic" part by disarming, quarantining, search seizure, so on and so forth.
Read about it for yourselves. I am sure everyone here is super in tune with what the oath they took means and don't see a need for this group, but how many mil guys, LEO and the like just do it for a paycheck? Fallow orders with out question to avoid reprimand? That is the point, to say that oath you took actually means something. Don't follow that unlawful order. That's it, no black helicopters, tin foil hats or koolaid.
NCPatrolAR
10-10-09, 22:05
Maybe you should contact Stewart and find out for yourself.
Thats ok. Looking over his site and some youtube videos is more than enough exposure for me.
NCPatrolAR
10-10-09, 22:08
such as firing on American citizens
Can an American citizen be a domestic threat? This is one of the issues I have with the youtube Oathkeepers video. They play the edit game with a soldier's comments and make it sound like he would fire on an American citizen for no reason when he is talking about what he would do if someone engaged him first.
Also, in that same video, what is the Marine PAO saying? The Braveheart music drowns out what he is saying.
Can an American citizen be a domestic threat?
Let me clarify myself, when I say that I mean under an unlawful order, like say a bunch of unarmed G20 protestors. Or food riots, or refugees fleeing a natural disaster or something like that.
Belmont31R
10-11-09, 02:05
Eh I wore an infidel tab but it was under the sleeve pocket flap where it couldnt be seen.
I do agree it was probably just a photo op. I can't imagine a COC allowing that...especially if they were caught by a CSM with nothing better to do than go around 'correcting' people...then soldier says..."but so and so said I could wear it."
At least they have an ideology to believe in, and have a better understanding of our country and government than most soldiers who probably would do what their were told....like disarming people during a disaster type situation. Maybe they are kooks but at least they are kooks who will refuse to go door to door Katrina style taking people's property and means of self-defense.
Can an American citizen be a domestic threat?
Gee, according to reports released by the State of Missouri and DHS earlier this year - I am to be considered a "domestic threat" because I have attended tax protests, signed petitions and fly the Gadsden flag. My father (retired Naval Officer) flies the John Paul Jones naval ensign at his house. Between that and being ex-military, he also qualifies as a "domestic threat" according to the reports.
So, we are citizens, we vote, we pay our taxes, etc., but because we don't fit certain people's agendas, we are considered threats worthy of notice. You think this is acceptable in a free Republic?
Guess it all depends on your perspective then. I, for one, am glad that LE and military personnel take their oath to defend the US Constitution seriously. IIRC, military personnel are not obligated to follow orders that are contra to basic morals under USMCOJ. This is allowed to prevent the "I was only following orders" excuse to explain participation in criminal atrocities (such as rounding up "undesirables" and confiscation of property without due process).
If this was not the case, what would happen if military personnel are asked (required?) to swear an oath of allegiance to their CIC, and said CIC then issues orders that are contra-constitutional? Do you then expect them to blindly follow such orders? If so, you are living in the wrong country, sir.
Gee, according to reports released by the State of Missouri and DHS earlier this year - I am to be considered a "domestic threat" because I have attended tax protests, signed petitions and fly the Gadsden flag. My father (retired Naval Officer) flies the John Paul Jones naval ensign at his house. Between that and being ex-military, he also qualifies as a "domestic threat" according to the reports.
So, we are citizens, we vote, we pay our taxes, etc., but because we don't fit certain people's agendas, we are considered threats worthy of notice. You think this is acceptable in a free Republic?
Guess it all depends on your perspective then. I, for one, am glad that LE and military personnel take their oath to defend the US Constitution seriously. IIRC, military personnel are not obligated to follow orders that are contra to basic morals under USMCOJ. This is allowed to prevent the "I was only following orders" excuse to explain participation in criminal atrocities (such as rounding up "undesirables" and confiscation of property without due process).
If this was not the case, what would happen if military personnel are asked (required?) to swear an oath of allegiance to their CIC, and said CIC then issues orders that are contra-constitutional? Do you then expect them to blindly follow such orders? If so, you are living in the wrong country, sir.
Don't worry. More shall see your perspective as time goes on. It's not that far away...
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. I don't know who stated this but too many Americans are asleep at the wheel. It will "take care of itself" one way or another. I only hope enough awaken in time.
Peace.
I can still vividly remember raising my right hand and taking my oath when I joined the Army in 1980. I don't remember ever withdrawing or rescinding my oath at the end of my service. I've been keeping my "oath" since 1980. Hey! A new sig line!
Can an American citizen be a domestic threat?
According to the Department of Homeland (In)security, yes, if said American citizen is an Iraq or Afghanistan veteran. :rolleyes:
According to the Department of Homeland (In)security, yes, if said American citizen is an Iraq or Afghanistan veteran. :rolleyes:
Or supported the only non-CFR presidential candidate who wanted to restore our once great country to a Constitutional Republic.You know,the country that our Founding Fathers framed out for us but was commondeered by corrupt politicians.
Belmont31R
10-11-09, 17:16
Or supported the only non-CFR presidential candidate who wanted to restore our once great country to a Constitutional Republic.You know,the country that our Founding Fathers framed out for us but was commondeered by corrupt politicians.
If our FF's came back today, and acted the way they did back then they would be in Gitmo right next to the 9/11 types.
If our FF's came back today, and acted the way they did back then they would be in Gitmo right next to the 9/11 types.
Yep, and they would have been 5 years ago too under Bush, and 10 years ago under Clinton. In fact they would be labeled terrorists, anyone that agreed with them would be terrorist sympathizers and the majority of the population would sympathize and justify any action our government took against them. Anyone that questioned the action would be labeled a socialist/communist/nazi/anti-american and would be an outcast experiencing almost daily verbal, written or physical threats from fellow citizens.
It should also be noted that the only reason they won the revolution is because they used "asymmetric warfare".
http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/political-pictures-republicans-nazis.jpg
To pre-empt all of the reactionary claims that I am an anti american liberal that will ultimately result from my above post.
If our FF's came back today, and acted the way they did back then they would be in Gitmo right next to the 9/11 types.
100% agreed. Be that as it may,I still am a feverent believer in our Founding Documents.The reason being is that it is a very accurate and insightful testament to human nature specifically how human's can thrive and prosper through truly free living.When you take the time to read individual writings and works from various Founding Father's,you are always pleasantly surprised on intelligent and wise these men are individually.Now,imagine what they are capable when they pool their talent's!!
Thats why I really get twisted when one of these modern day fools who somehow got themselves elected have the audacity to think that they smarter than the Founding Fathers and try to change (re:negate ) certain parts of our Founding Documents.The best part about these changes (sarcasm) is that no matter what the subject of the actual change is,there are two definte by-products : 1.our Rights are eroded
2.The Government grows
I dont know what its going to take for America to wake up.Study the facts and figures.Study economics.Study Geo-Politics.Study History,cause it ALWAYS repreats itself!!
Business_Casual
10-11-09, 18:25
You know,the country that our Founding Fathers framed out for us but was commondeered by corrupt politicians.
We are responsible for voting in candidates that will adhere to the constitution. Putting our faith in weak men has lead us to this point. We only have ourselves to blame for the situation. Trying to blame politicians for lying is the same as trying to blame a fox for eating chickens.
M_P
RogerinTPA
10-11-09, 18:28
We are responsible for voting in candidates that will adhere to the constitution. Putting our faith in weak men has lead us to this point. We only have ourselves to blame for the situation. Trying to blame politicians for lying is the same as trying to blame a fox for eating chickens.
M_P
True words...;)
Submariner
10-11-09, 18:32
... like the million people searched thread? The one with Terry Stops, Fourth Amendment and warrantless searches being unreasonable per se? Try a search. Poof!
Discussing the CFR and related topics makes people here uncomfortable. More importantly, it is bad for business.
Which is the purpose of the forum.:D
We are responsible for voting in candidates that will adhere to the constitution. Putting our faith in weak men has lead us to this point. We only have ourselves to blame for the situation. Trying to blame politicians for lying is the same as trying to blame a fox for eating chickens.
M_P
who gives us our choices? the GOP and DNC. we get to vote between three to five foxes of different colors and smells.
we're stuck in a two-party system, and have to ask those parties for help getting out of a two party system. no easy task, man..
... like the million people searched thread? The one with Terry Stops, Fourth Amendment and warrantless searches being unreasonable per se? Try a search. Poof!
Discussing the CFR and related topics makes people here uncomfortable. More importantly, it is bad for business.
Which is the purpose of the forum.:D
Never looked at it this way, Submariner.
We are responsible for voting in candidates that will adhere to the constitution. Putting our faith in weak men has lead us to this point. We only have ourselves to blame for the situation. Trying to blame politicians for lying is the same as trying to blame a fox for eating chickens.
M_P
Yup,its a sad fact that the politicians are elected.Thats a testament for how "dumbed down" this nation has become.There are just masses of uninformed people.They are the voting blocks that get these people voted into office.
As for lying politicians,its a joke that their employees count the votes.Like Joseph Stalin once observed "its not who votes that counts,its who counts the votes".
LockenLoad
10-11-09, 20:16
who gives us our choices? the GOP and DNC. we get to vote between three to five foxes of different colors and smells.
we're stuck in a two-party system, and have to ask those parties for help getting out of a two party system. no easy task, man..
very well said totally agree
NCPatrolAR
10-11-09, 20:27
Gee, according to reports released by the State of Missouri and DHS earlier this year - I am to be considered a "domestic threat" because I have attended tax protests, signed petitions and fly the Gadsden flag. My father (retired Naval Officer) flies the John Paul Jones naval ensign at his house. Between that and being ex-military, he also qualifies as a "domestic threat" according to the reports.
So, we are citizens, we vote, we pay our taxes, etc., but because we don't fit certain people's agendas, we are considered threats worthy of notice. You think this is acceptable in a free Republic?
Guess it all depends on your perspective then. I, for one, am glad that LE and military personnel take their oath to defend the US Constitution seriously. IIRC, military personnel are not obligated to follow orders that are contra to basic morals under USMCOJ. This is allowed to prevent the "I was only following orders" excuse to explain participation in criminal atrocities (such as rounding up "undesirables" and confiscation of property without due process).
If this was not the case, what would happen if military personnel are asked (required?) to swear an oath of allegiance to their CIC, and said CIC then issues orders that are contra-constitutional? Do you then expect them to blindly follow such orders? If so, you are living in the wrong country, sir.
You dont need to preach to me about being classified as a domestic terrorist or people following orders for whatever reason. The comment that you quoted from me was in respond to what sounded like a person saying that a US citizen could never be a domestic threat. This is something that we have seen is far from the case.
I wasn't real happy to see Homeland come out with a statement that could be meant to include me. Conversely, I'm not much given to "what if" ing on the web. It's idle speculation.
I've taken the Oath to protect and defend the Constitution three times. I specifically remember the part about "against enemies foreign and domestic." I think that has my hands full as it is. Meth, non-locals making hiring decisions, and pay in SW MO at 74% of the national average are some real world challenges.
To paraphrase Cubbinson in the unreleased history on Wanat, sometimes we look to a "kinetic" interaction rather than a "hearts and minds" campaign. Points out that doing the right thing can be boring and mundane. And it doesn't attract energetic young studs as much.
Don't think for a minute that the "lackeys of gov't oppression" will walk in step with illegal orders and swoop down on the innocent population. They often don't and gum up the works. And, having trained in our locally reputed concentration camp at Camp Crowder, I'm pretty sure it's just way too small to incarcerate the haul from the black helicopters, regardless of who's in charge.
Frankly, the rumors of the Conservation Department releasing hundreds of black panthers in the local woods are more bothersome. :D
It's the whole reason America is so great!
Frankly, the rumors of the Conservation Department releasing hundreds of black panthers in the local woods are more bothersome.
I don't think the Black Panthers would do well in the woods, they seem to be better suited to an urban environment.
Sorry, I had to do it. :D
Brand new kit - heck the chunk of VS-17 is still glowing orange.
My guess it is some tinfoil weirdo's wet dream outside of his mothers basement.
Edited...
Is this (threat) really necessary? I'm sure you didn't really mean to imply that there are consequences for any member that shares a different opinion than a M4C staffer or moderator.
NCPatrolAR
10-11-09, 23:39
Is this (threat) really necessary? I'm sure you didn't really mean to imply that there are consequences for any member that shares a different opinion than a M4C staffer or moderator.
The meaning of his post should be clear. If someone doesn't like how the site is ran they are free not to post here. If there is an issue with the moderation contact a staff member with your concern
LockenLoad
10-12-09, 07:36
Is this (threat) really necessary? I'm sure you didn't really mean to imply that there are consequences for any member that shares a different opinion than a M4C staffer or moderator.
I have found just stay away from commenting against the core frat group here( not worth it just learn what you can because there are good people here), it can end very badly for you is a phrase I have read:(
I have found just stay away from commenting against the core frat group here( not worth it just learn what you can because there are good people here), it can end very badly for you is a phrase I have read:(
I do not think this is the case at all as I read differences of opinions between mods and members all the time without it getting hostile.
I don't visit very many forums but I can tell you one thing that is consistent in the better ones is do not call out a mod during a thread for the other members to see!! Take it to a PM if you have issue with the way they call the shots.
John_Wayne777
10-12-09, 08:29
I have found just stay away from commenting against the core frat group here( not worth it just learn what you can because there are good people here), it can end very badly for you is a phrase I have read:(
There's no "core frat group" here.
Submariner is making a comment about a thread I deleted because the guy who started that thread came here only to stir up crap. When called on some of his crap stirring he sent all the moderators and staffers a pretty nasty IM full of insults, profanity, and a demand that his account be banned.
Naturally, we accommodated that request.
...so Submariner's comment was made with only a tiny portion of the story. Based on a limited set of facts he saw a nefarious conspiracy when in reality it was just flushing a garden variety troll who essentially ASKED us to get rid of him and his posts here.
Our goal here is to try and maintain an atmosphere where everyone with a common interest can share valuable information. It's not possible to maintain that kind of environment when tinfoil whackos and people with a grudge against law enforcement are free to post whatever pops into their head. There are plenty of places online where people can vent on those topics to their heart's content. They have their niche....we have ours.
You can't have a professional, collegial environment where people are constantly ranting about "JBTs" or bitching about how the Marines are going to come take all our guns away. Similarly, it is difficult to maintain that kind of environment if people think they can pile abuse on the volunteer mods and staffers who try to preserve what is valuable about the site.
It's entirely possible for reasonable adults to disagree without being disagreeable. I disagree with lots of folks here on lots of issues...even other mods and staff...but I can express that disagreement without degrading or insulting them, and they can do the same with me. At the end of the day we may still disagree, but we treat each other with respect. If you treat others with respect, refrain from making broad and unfounded accusations, and generally speak with solid backing it's unlikely that you'll ever have a problem here.
The people who do end up getting warnings about things ending badly for them have generally violated those basic guidelines.
Is this (threat) really necessary? I'm sure you didn't really mean to imply that there are consequences for any member that shares a different opinion than a M4C staffer or moderator.
No, it wasn't necessary and I apologize to all the members that saw it. We want you guys to express your opinions regardless and without worry of backlash from the staff, moderators or other members. You opinion should be respected by everyone.
I will deal with the issue off-line (even though my stance hasn’t changed) but I do want you guys to know that it had nothing to do with what was said in this thread. It’s been a pattern that’s gone on far too long. Please understand it’s not an isolated incident.
Please continue with your discussion and accept my apology for interrupting and airing out internet forum laundry.
Outlander Systems
10-12-09, 09:21
JohnWayne and M4arc:
I applaud your professional explanations and address to the issue that's been raised.
I almost decided to avoid GD, as several of my threads as OP get slammed because someone comes in and shows his ass. It's the nature of the beast.
As far as the original topic...
I read Stewart Rhodes' recent article in SWAT yesterday, and I'm not seeing the tinfoil here.
As someone who swore to the Oath of Enlistment, I meant it. As well, I can respect the Catch-22 presented within that Oath, in regards to "all enemies foreign and domestic" and "...that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me". For anyone who would decide to disobey a direct order, let me remind them of the UCMJ and little place called the United States Disciplinary Barracks...
Just sayin...
It's a slippery slope, indeed.
As Modern_Pirate pointed out, it is our duty to elect representatives that would NOT defile the Constitution, issue unconstitutional orders, or enact unconstitutional laws.
As well, the individual soldier's duty, is not an interpretation of the order, but to carry the order out. It is absolutely necessary for the functioning of the military for the chain of command to do its work. A samurai does not question the Daimyo.
That being said, I do NOT ascribe to theory of "accidental history". Take that for what it's worth.
In regards to Mr. Rhodes' most recent article, I believe he has illustrated a point we should all consider.
Martial law is the antithesis of a functioning Republic. It's reprehensible, and should it ever be brought about, even under the auspices of the defense and/or restoration of said Republic, it won't be. Historical precedent tells us otherwise.
The question we should all ask ourselves is whether or not we want our children growing up in the Land of the Free, and the Home of the Brave, or the Land of the Fee and the Home of the Slave.
Hokey catch-phrases aside, it is a serious issue. As we collectively move towards a different structure of governance and the specter of usurpation from within said government lurks in the shadows, we must do our jobs as citizens of the greatest nation in human history to guard the Republic at the polls.
The most recent election leaves the blood solely on our hands, and if we're looking to place blame, it need only be lain upon ourselves.
It's been long said we get the Congress we deserve.
If the average American voter doesn't like or prefer what is going on, it only reflects their apathy and ignorance in the voting booth. The backlash as exhibited in town meetings held nationwide by elected representatives is clearly indicative of the voter finally paying attention to the train wreck in DC.
Of course, if the economy gets better, then it'll be back to business as usual, and let's go shopping at the Mall. That has actually not been a goal of the present party in power over the years, and they are taking advantage of it.
Let's be aware that leveling the nuclear playing field, accepting humanistic law over the Constitution, and limiting free speech and the accompanying right to protect it has been a game plan for decades.
Most frogs don't see the boiling point coming because the temperature is only ticked up one degree at a time.
Outlander Systems
10-12-09, 09:56
Most frogs don't see the boiling point coming because the temperature is only ticked up one degree at a time.
From an excellent book on our apathy at the polling places, and how we are taken advantage of, through our inactivity.
Taken from, "Amusing Ourselves to Death" by Neil Postman
"There are two ways by which the spirit of a culture may be shriveled. In the first - the Orwellian - culture becomes a prison. In the second - the Huxleyan - culture becomes a burlesque.
No one needs to be reminded that our world is now marred by many prison-cultures whose structure Orwell described accurately in his parables. If one were to read both 1984 and Animal Farm, and then for good measure, Arthur Koestler's Darkness at Noon, one would have a fairly precise blueprint of the machinery of thought-control as it currently operates in scores of countries and on millions of people. Of course, Orwell was not the first to teach us about the spiritual devastations of tyranny. What is irreplaceable about his work is his insistence that it makes little difference if our wardens are inspired by right- or left-wing ideologies. The gates of the prison are equally impenetrable, surveillance equally rigorous, icon worship equally pervasive.
What Huxley teaches is that in the age of advanced technology, spiritual devastation is more likely to come from an enemy with a smiling face than from one whose countenance exudes suspicion and hate. In the Huxleyan prophecy, Big Brother does not watch us, by his choice. We watch him, by ours. There is no need for wardens or gates or Ministries of Truth. When a population becomes distracted by trivia, when cultural life is redefined as a perpetual round of entertainments, when serious public conversation becomes a form of baby-talk, when, in short, a people become an audience and their public business a vaudeville act, then a nation finds itself at risk; culture-death is a clear possibility"
What passes for political discourse in this country nowadays is a joke. It might as well be a rigged football game between the Denver Donkeys and the El Paso Elephants. Because, as the Huxlean Warning has prophesied, we are more enthralled with John and Kate, because we have allowed our political rallies to become like spectator spectacles, and because we've become apathetic towards the real political process, we've gotten exactly what we deserve.
What matters more to our daily lives? Michael Jackson's unreleased single, or the bankrupting of our nation? We hear more about the trite and trivial, than what is important, and through acclimation and peer interaction, we discuss football instead of politics, because it's easier.
As usual, I go back to my age old idea that if the elected representatives won't set up a strict 1-term limit, I'll do it for 'em. Again, no incumbents.
Im sorta with Kevin on this. Looks like brand new kit, nice and clean. I am assuming that if it is a US Military Member, remember more than US Army wears ACU's, they took the pic and then dumped the patches. SGM walk around all day looking for stuff like this to mess with people about.
No, it wasn't necessary and I apologize to all the members that saw it. We want you guys to express your opinions regardless and without worry of backlash from the staff, moderators or other members. You opinion should be respected by everyone.
I will deal with the issue off-line (even though my stance hasn’t changed) but I do want you guys to know that it had nothing to do with what was said in this thread. It’s been a pattern that’s gone on far too long. Please understand it’s not an isolated incident.
Please continue with your discussion and accept my apology for interrupting and airing out internet forum laundry.
No worries, bro. Be safe.
http://www.lvrj.com/news/oath-keepers-pledges-to-prevent-dictatorship-in-united-states-64690232.html
If those gun-hating and gun-owner-hating idiots in the SPLC have a problem with them, then that's enough of an endorsement for me.
In a July report titled "Return of the Militias," the Alabama-based Southern Poverty Law Center singled out Oath Keepers as "a particularly worrisome example of the Patriot revival."
Outlander Systems
10-18-09, 20:52
If those gun-hating and gun-owner-hating idiots in the SPLC have a problem with them, then that's enough of an endorsement for me.
Agreed. I didn't know this before your post, but it certainly broadens my perspective.
Wow, some of y'all are seriously out of it or ignoring things!
Yeah, being proud of an oath you took is dumb. Can't believe them, geeze.
I can't believe they're spouting out that drivel. "We won't disarm American citizens!" How dare they!
I know, those scum! :rolleyes:
Yeah. What a bunch of jackasses.
:rolleyes:
Indeed!
Members of the armed forces take a service oath when they enlist which stipulates quite clearly their duties and the chain of command. I fail to see the necessity of taking an additional oath, regardless of how well-intentioned it may appear.
Oath Keepers can write up their pledges and wrap themselves in the American flag, but the leadership is aligned with conspiracy theorists expounding the dangers of the New World Order, the Bilderburgers, and a host of other nebulous and nefarious organizations which have purportedly usurped the civilian leadership of this nation.
The military forces of this country are under civilian control of an elected representative government. By questioning the authenticity and authority of that civilian government, these people are, in fact, questioning the authority of the chain of command.
And that's a dangerous thing. A very dangerous thing.
I think its for those who may forget things like the 2A, or other rights when ordered to despite it being a violation of their oath, NO comes to mind
Don't worry. More shall see your perspective as time goes on. It's not that far away...
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. I don't know who stated this but too many Americans are asleep at the wheel. It will "take care of itself" one way or another. I only hope enough awaken in time.
Peace.
+1 I hope so! The responses in this thread are concerning to say the least, and yet people wonder why faith in various governmental and state bodies is eroding or gone
I think we should all be willing to stand up and defend our country from it's enemies within. It's a shame that this subject shows up more and more. Obviously, there are more and more people that think we are heading for a situation that may call for a drastic action. If we are, the hard part will be knowing when this type of action would be required.
decodeddiesel
10-21-09, 15:22
Are those patches allowed per 670-1?
Hell no!
"Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of currently serving military, reserves, National Guard, veterans, Peace Officers, and Fire Fighters who will fulfill the Oath we swore, with the support of like minded citizens..."
It the "like minded citizens" causing concern. The group has evolved into a militia recruitment tool playing on the sentiments of those who serve(d). Which is not to say that there are not individuals with admirable intentions involved.
Got a clearance? Want one? Part of their stated target audience of on-duty LEO and military personnel; in other words, organizations that typically do not care for their members to have divided loyalties via militia organizations? You may not want to have your name associated with he organization.
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