Gas - Gas - Gas

[Outlander Systems]

Have you factored in MOPP gear into your preps?

What are you using? Why?

Anything from Level A suits to a N95 mask, and a rain-poncho is fair game.

[QuietShootr]

MSA Millenniums with 40mm adapters, sealed MOPP suits for me and wife, and shelter-in-place materials plus compressed air to create 8 hours+ of overpressure for one room. Stored sodium hypochlorite powder to make decon solution, and large plastic pans and sprayers to deliver it.

The plan is dependent on the scenario. Persistent agent, liquid contamination of the area=bug out and decon. No liquid contamination, SIP and monitor the WMD-CST talkgroup and see what's what.

[PA PATRIOT]

Mopp barrier suits with gloves and sealing tape, Canadian Mil-spec masks with Scott MPC Plus Cartridge #805557-02, 5 Mil plastic sheets pre cut to the size of the window and door of the safe room with Guerrilla duct tape, one "Hundred" pound bottle of compressed air with a guaged bleeder. Everything but the air bottle is stored in a tote in the safe room.

[Outlander Systems]

Where are you guys getting your stuff?

Are the M40 masks w/hoods commercially available?

[m4fun]

No kidding, where - I still have old M117 masks that require you to take the whole thing apart to change filters.

[Hoss356]

Here's a site I just pulled up on Google, http://www.armygasmasks.com/category-s/3.htm, I like the look of it plus I can get replacement filters for at least one mask I have. They have MCU2/P for $160 including carrier and C2 can. http://www.armygasmasks.com/U-S-Military-MCU-2-P-Gas-Mask-p/aaagas-60.htm

[Iraq Ninja]

No store can beat the prices you can get on Ebay. Just be careful and do your homework. You can find brand new or used current issued masks from 50 to 75 bucks, often with all kinds of extras.

Hell, I even found live atropine injectors on ebay...

[Eddiesketti]

MOPP gear was not designed to totally save your life in an NBC attack. It will mearly keep you in the fight longer.

[Hoss356]

MOPP gear ws not designed to totally save your life in an NBC attack. It will mearly keep you in the fight longer.

Intentionally a little vague there aren't we? Your statement is mostly BS.

[Eddiesketti]

Let me be more clear then. A direct NBC attack you have little chance of making it without eventually feeling effects. Antropine injectors are stabbed into the thigh to raise heart rate and speed chemicals through the body. Then you will later use the diazapan to slow heart rate down. Then you will need to move to a safe area. You will then need to go through a decontamination area discarding all but your pro mask for new mopp gear.

I don't think that my statement was BS. An indirect attack you might be okay. Most people wouldn't use the Antropine if needed. A lot of people have no training in this area. Like i said, it will mearly keep you in the fight longer.

I am incorrect on the drug part

[arbninftry]

Let me be more clear then. A direct NBC attack you have little chance of making it without eventually feeling effects. Antropine injectors are stabbed into the thigh to raise heart rate and speed chemicals through the body. Then you will later use the diazapan to slow heart rate down. Then you will need to move to a safe area. You will then need to go through a decontamination area discarding all but your pro mask for new mopp gear.

I don't think that my statement was BS. An indirect attack you might be okay. Most people wouldn't use the Antropine if needed. A lot of people have no training in this area. Like i said, it will mearly keep you in the fight longer.


Also, dont forget a chem suit is only good for a few hours in a contaminated area. The charcoal lining will become saturated with the chemicals and they will eventually "bleed through" the suit.

[arbninftry]

Where are you guys getting your stuff?

Are the M40 masks w/hoods commercially available?

Try
http://www.approvedgasmasks.com/
The prices are not to bad. Amazon, ebay and various others have surplus stuff. The problem with surplus chem suits, is sometimes the seals on the packages are broke. Once the charcoal has drawn moisture it effects its reliability.

[QuietShootr]

Let me be more clear then. A direct NBC attack you have little chance of making it without eventually feeling effects. Antropine injectors are stabbed into the thigh to raise heart rate and speed chemicals through the body. Then you will later use the diazapan to slow heart rate down. Then you will need to move to a safe area. You will then need to go through a decontamination area discarding all but your pro mask for new mopp gear.

I don't think that my statement was BS. An indirect attack you might be okay. Most people wouldn't use the Antropine if needed. A lot of people have no training in this area. Like i said, it will mearly keep you in the fight longer.

Sorry, that's not how it works.

Nerve impulses are transmitted in your body via synapses that are turned on and off by neurotransmitters. One chemical turns the switch ON (acetylcholine), and one turns the switch OFF(acetylcholinesterase).

Nerve agents are acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, which means they bind to the acetylcholinesterase and make it impossible for the acetylcholinesterase to turn the impulse OFF. Some of these ACE inhibitors are reversible (Sarin(GB) or the V agents), and some are less so (e.g. Soman or GD). The action of inhibiting acetylcholinesterase is similar to spraying a bug with Raid- convulsions, salivating, jerking, loss of motor function, and eventual death.

The two injectors in the NAAK clip are atropine and Pralidoxime Chloride. The additional injector is diazepam, which is never self-administered.

Pralidoxime Chloride breaks the bond between the nerve agent and the acetylcholinesterase, allowing normal function to resume. Atropine supports this action by providing some of the functions that acetylcholinesterase provides until the 2-PAM can take effect.

The Diazepam is administered via buddy-aid for its muscle relaxant and anticonvulsant effects, again to allow the body to relax while the 2-PAM does its job.

The amount of injectors (drug) used are proportionate to the dose of nerve agent received.

NAAKs will not just 'keep you in the fight longer', they will save your life if properly used. They are the same drugs that you will be administered in a hospital if you are poisoned with an organophosphate insecticide or a nerve agent.


http://blogs.pitch.com/plog/the_more_you_know2.jpg

[RetiredMI]

So...you're sitting in your house in MOP gear and wondering if it's "all clear". In the military, you would direct the lowest ranking member of your unit to crack his mask, then monitor for ill effects...

Who's going to do that in your family? Junior....Sissy...Mom?:eek:

Just askin...

[GunBugBit]

Also, dont forget a chem suit is only good for a few hours in a contaminated area. The charcoal lining will become saturated with the chemicals and they will eventually "bleed through" the suit.
Plus, those of us who've worn them for ANY length of time know that the mask and full suit is TORTURE. At least for me it was. If I knew I had to keep it on to survive, I would, but I'd use my energy to get away from the contaminated area and be able to take the damn things off. If I have to stay in the contaminated area, I figure I'll be dead right quick.

[QuietShootr]

So...you're sitting in your house in MOP gear and wondering if it's "all clear". In the military, you would direct the lowest ranking member of your unit to crack his mask, then monitor for ill effects...

Who's going to do that in your family? Junior....Sissy...Mom?:eek:

Just askin...

Mother-in-law.

[Eddiesketti]

You got me on the drugs. I never used them, only trained. The drugs weren't in question as to keeping you in the fight, it was the NBC gear itself. The drugs would probably NOT save you in a real NBC attack. If in an NBC attack, you need to factor in a lot of variations. Location in regards to the blast, your mopp gear(does it fit correctly, serviceable), you as in can you properly put on your gear, movement to decon area, decon area, deterioration of mopp gear while moving can be a factor. You might not make it past putting your promask on and have to use the antropine. This is some of the most serious training in the military. If you use the injectors when needed, chances are you are going to die. How many people that have used the injectors in an NBC attack are still alive walking around like nothing happened?

[QuietShootr]

You got me on the drugs. I never used them, only trained. The drugs weren't in question as to keeping you in the fight, it was the NBC gear itself. The drugs would probably NOT save you in a real NBC attack. If in an NBC attack, you need to factor in a lot of variations. Location in regards to the blast, your mopp gear(does it fit correctly, serviceable), you as in can you properly put on your gear, movement to decon area, decon area, deterioration of mopp gear while moving can be a factor. You might not make it past putting your promask on and have to use the antropine. This is some of the most serious training in the military. If you use the injectors when needed, chances are you are going to die. How many people that have used the injectors in an NBC attack are still alive walking around like nothing happened?

I don't mean to minimize the threat, but it's not nearly as dangerous to someone who is prepared (i.e. a soldier with gear) as is popularly believed. I was once in an Army National Guard chemical unit and we trained at Newport Army Ammunition Plant (where they used to store barrels of VX agent). The Pinkerton guards would walk around in the storage sheds on their rounds masked up and carrying a CAM and three sets of autoinjectors. No suit, no gloves, nothing else.

One of the favorite "jokes" to play on new guys was when they would return from their first solo clock round, someone would grab them and say to someone else, "Hey, look at Joe's eyes. His pupils look a little small to you?" This scared one kid so bad he was about to stick himself before they stopped him. He never came back.

Nothing gets a belly laugh like a potential case of nerve agent poisoning.

Nobody ever got seriously dosed there after they went into storage mode, as far as I'm aware.

I'm not saying not to take it seriously, but it isn't black magic. Farmers get organophosphate insecticide poisoning all the time and survive it with no problem with treatment. The V- and G- agents were originally developed as insecticides.

[Eddiesketti]

I have trained quite a few soldiers before i left the Regular Army and some were chewed up. I have never been in a NG unit but i can only imagine worse.

Is John Q Public really going to carry his/her mopp gear to work everyday waiting for the situation to arise? Probably not.

The VX was all in storage and had minimal a contaminate rate.

Vx gas can be blown down wind. It wouldn't be hard to get to a safe zone. If you had fallout, or a wet/sticky chemical agent, moving to a safe area would be vital. Then making sure not to recontaminate yourself while in self decon. That would be your weakest point where the chemicals could be absorbed into the skin/bloodstream.

[Heavy Metal]

Sticky stuff is for area denial and the bug spray is to wipe out concentrations of troops in the open.

To deliver the bug spray(VX), you need massed artillery or airpower and the wind and sun conditions have to be just right or it will dissapate too quckly. A breeze or strong sunshine will disperse or loft it.

That said, I do not think a chemical attack is something I get up each day worrying about.

The mask will protect the respiratory system and the best chemical suit is to be inside a structure till it dissapates. VX vapor alone is not enough to kill you if you are wearing a pro-mask, you need to get a mist on your skin. Being indoors will preclude that.

A mask and a rainsuit or poncho with rubber gloves would make a field-expiedent chemsuit that would likely suffice for a limited terror-style attack.

[Abraxas]

Mopp barrier suits with gloves and sealing tape, Canadian Mil-spec masks with Scott MPC Plus Cartridge #805557-02, 5 Mil plastic sheets pre cut to the size of the window and door of the safe room with Guerrilla duct tape, one "Hundred" pound bottle of compressed air with a guaged bleeder. Everything but the air bottle is stored in a tote in the safe room.

You have got to be the most prepared person on this site. I have no mop gear but I have two masks but only two filters. Better than none but I was told that filters don't last long.

[Abraxas]

Hell, I even found live atropine injectors on ebay...

Sounds about right;)