View Full Version : Does anyone here open carry?
88redryder88
10-12-09, 19:37
What are your thoughts on this? I've not got my CC permit yet so I've been starting to open carry a little. Anyone here doing this? Any suggestions for a beginner as in what to do/not to do?
Just don't act suspicious, and don't fidget it around. Make sure your holster is sitting comfortably before heading out.
People generally don't even notice where I'm at. I conceal 90% of the time, but sometimes I'm just not in the mood to even try. I figure having it completely exposed in a nice holster on my hip, is a lot less threatening than poorly concealed under a T-Shirt.
88redryder88
10-12-09, 19:48
I live in a small town so most of the LEO's know me. They know me as a good law abiding citizen. I never had any bad experience's with them except a couple traffic violations that went smoothly. But being in a golden state for OC makes me feel a little better.:)
Indeed!
My viewpoint may not quite fit your area.
In an attempt to limit open carry, the big city near me, and four or five smaller cities around it, have enacted legislation that limits open carry, by banning loaded weapons.
You can still open carry, but you can't have ammo.
However, with a Concealed Carry permit (CHL), the law's do not apply to you.
ORS 166.173:
ORS 166.173 Authority of city or county to regulate possession of loaded firearms in public places. (1) A city or county may adopt ordinances to regulate, restrict or prohibit the possession of loaded firearms in public places as defined in ORS 161.015.
(2) Ordinances adopted under subsection (1) of this section do not apply to or affect:
(a) A law enforcement officer in the performance of official duty.
(b) A member of the military in the performance of official duty.
(c) A person licensed to carry a concealed handgun.
(d) A person authorized to possess a loaded firearm while in or on a public building or court facility under ORS 166.370. [1995 s.s. c.1 §4; 1999 c.782 §8]
For being a pretty gun-friendly state, there are a LOT of left-wing whacko's.
I have a handgun permit for MD but I wouldn't OC in public. Makes people uneasy and would probably be more of a headache than anything else. I carry when working, most the time concealed but on busy holidays I will OC in the event of something happening at my workplace (Business). I have a carry permit for VA and FL as well. I would always conceal as oppose to open carry.
Nope. I'd rather it be a "suprise" if needed. Plus... open carrying for 8+ hours a day at work is enough for me. The other 16 hours of the day I do as little to stand out as humanly possible.
The beauty of Virginia is that if my shirt comes open, OC is legal.
That being said, concealed is concealed. It's very rare that I intentionally open carry outside my home.
I have OC'd a few times since moving back to Missouri. The only issue in MO is that state OC law does not preempt local laws, however from most of what I have read is that if you have a CCW that the "illegal to open carry" local laws do not apply to you. That is what is hard in a state that does not preempt the open carry is that every locality can make their own rules so you have to be super careful about where you do it.
Back when I lived in KY, I carried open on hip most of the time (1991-95) didn't have a problem.. had more of a problem when LEO seen empty holster in vehicle than with gun. Just don't be stupid about it.:D
rifleman2000
10-12-09, 21:05
I carry openly about 50% of the time, when it is more convenient. I have been carrying openly for about 6 years, no hassles.
When I open carry, I try not to dress messy, and of course a level of politeness has to be maintained. Verbal disagreements when one guy has a gun on his waist can be problematic, regardless of your intent.
Advertising that one has guns in this day and age is not a wise course of action. You never know who follows you home and then watches you leave so they can ransack the remainder of your gun collection.
I don't OC, and don't advocate it. No one needs to know what, and how, I carry.
Advertising that one has guns in this day and age is probably not a wise course of action. You never know who follows you home and then watches you leave so they can ransack the remainder of your gun collection. Concealed carry is a better way to go.
I don't OC, and don't advocate it. No one needs to know what, and how, I carry.
+1 nobody needs to know what i have
I open carry when I am camping or hiking. Otherwise I keep it covered.
John_Wayne777
10-12-09, 21:42
Open carry requires a much higher level of situational awareness that most people simply aren't prepared to live when openly carrying.
Only right after a hurricane when it is "tolerated." It isn't legal here.
Wish it was, attempting to conceal in FL weather is a rather pointless en devour. If you are gonna open carry, remember some folks will be deterred and others will be tempted. The kind that will be tempted are all of the very dangerous variety.
Weapon retention has to always be on your mind.
Very rarely do I OC, unless it is the short trips like to the mailbox or dumpster. Perhaps a walk around the neighborhood after dark. Generally, +1 to all ya'll that keep it covered. I support the right but don't encourage the practice as a normal mode of carry.
I am very thankful my state's carry law has
Subd. 23.Exclusivity.This section sets forth the complete and exclusive criteria and procedures for the issuance of permits to carry and establishes their nature and scope. No sheriff, police chief, governmental unit, government official, government employee, or other person or body acting under color of law or governmental authority may change, modify, or supplement these criteria or procedures, or limit the exercise of a permit to carry.
And that has prevented the cities from passing ordinances that would make our very well written law . . . less.
There is probably no more hotly debated topic between carriers than Open vs. Concealed. Well, maybe 9mm vs 45 but that's another rant. I do both as my state rocks and it's legal for either, permit optional.
Both have their places. There are times when you shouldn't OC and there are times where it's fine. I have been around quiet a few LE while OC'ing and have received ZERO problems. I have OC'd around the Governor and the State Troopers guarding her never gave me a second look.
Most of the time people think I'm LE. I'm fit, well dressed, and short hair. People coming up and asking me if I was an officer has led to some great discussions where I've been able to help educate people about their rights.
You're experiences may greatly vary as I am in one of the best states for firearms and open carrying.
Nothing makes me more sick that gun owners who are anti-open carry advocates. They are just as bad as the liberal gun grabbers trying to force their views on me. If you don't want to then don't, but why on earth would you try and hamper my right to OC? You either support our rights to carry both openly and concealed or you don't, there is NO middle ground.
You either support our rights to carry both openly and concealed or you don't, there is NO middle ground.
i agree, but i fully understand why people don't like it. there's two ways to look at gun rights- 1, we need to be open and loud about it- use it or lose it. 2, we need to keep D/L, because all the liberals only tollerate our 2nd Amendment, and drawing attention is sure to draw the unwanted type.
both are right, too.
i don't OC, as a rule.. if for no other reason than because i would be....... embarassed, for lack of a better term. it's all i'd be able to think about, like a big ass sore thumb. i suppose if i lived someplace where it was more common, i'd probably go for it.
i do OC when hiking/hunting/backpacking, and i do OC around my property. i'll even OC over to my neighbors, in my truck, sometimes i'll hop out of my truck at the gas station without my jacket on and OC or a minute (we have gas pumpers in oregon, but i always unlock my own gas cap 'cause the retards always try to force the key in backwards). so it happens. but that's about it.
by buddy has been trying to get me to go OC around Portland, OR.... one of the most lib cities in the US, if my estimation is correct. i generally try to stay the hell away from that place- going there with the intent to rile people up just doesn't appeal to me.
I avoid Portland whenever possible as well. Too bad Leed's and Sportsmans (Wholesale Sports?) are over there.
And I agree. I don't like to see holier-than-thou gun owners slamming people who OC. This thread has been perfect, and I applaud everyone for being respectful. :)
(Yay for Oregon!)
rifleman2000
10-13-09, 07:28
I agree that open carry requires presence of mind, but then again you should always have that presence of mind, concealed carry or unarmed.
I carry openly simply because sometimes it makes more sense. Like when I wear my shirt tucked into my pants.
Jay Cunningham
10-13-09, 07:29
I open carry on very rare occasions. That said, I neither endorse nor recommend it.
photosniper
10-13-09, 07:33
about the only time I OC is on range days, and even then, I'm usually concealed because I practice as I do in real life.
Pennsylvania has become the hot seat for the open carry movement. I'm sure you've all heard about the "Gun Toting Soccer Mom" (RIP Meleanie). While I believe OC should be defended as part of the Second Amendment, I know for a fact that there are OC activists out there that intentionally try to start a commotion or draw attention to themselves while OC'ing. I don't believe that is doing anything to further our cause and will end up coming back to bite the activists in the ass.
If you want to OC, have at it, but I'd suggest you maintain a more professional attitude and appearance while doing so and make sure you know who is around you at all times. I don't OC in public because I don't feel it works for me, tactically. Yes, OC can be a deterrent, but it can also put the number 1 bulls-eye on your back.
30 cal slut
10-13-09, 07:35
i'll OC when I have to. which is when CCW is not legal, and the alternative, OC, is not illegal.
in other words, fairly rarely, like, when i'm down in VA in a restaurant that serves alcohol.
i don't have an issue with law abiding, responsible citizens openly carrying.
i just don't to it too much myself.
dirksterg30
10-13-09, 08:24
Open carry requires a much higher level of situational awareness that most people simply aren't prepared to live when openly carrying.
A retention holster and some weapon retention training are a good idea as well.
I'm not Anti-open carry, but I do think it's a bit silly to give up an advantage when you can easily have one. Open carry puts a big fat target on your back. Why on you back? Because that's where they'll approach you from to konk you on the head and now they're +1 gun. If they don't see it, they won't know who's armed and who isn't.
It's about the advantage for me.
if im out in the woods or something then maybe. in a city or town no, im not even sure if its legal in texas.
I OC'd a lot more when I lived in VA. It is legal where I am out and I know ALL the LE in the area, but still don't do it here.
In the South, you can get away with it easier than you can in the North IMHO.
C4
I've OC only a handful of times. A few times walking the dogs and once or twice to Blockbuster or the grocery store. Otherwise, agree with most of the previous posts about not drawing any unneccsary attention to myself.
Even though I don't do it often, it is nice to live in a state where open carry is a legal option.:p
I OCed for a couple months about a year ago, I would prefer to get a CCW but here in CA we are a shall issue and my local sheriff has pretty much a 1% issuance. I actually stopped since I am on a forum Calguns.net
(mods if it is not ok to drop another website please delete web site name, I checked the rules and didn't see anything against it) that has a a foundation and volunteers that have been working towards getting the 2nd Amendment incorporated in our state, so that alot of these bs laws can be cleared and we can be a free state like most others.
if im out in the woods or something then maybe. in a city or town no, im not even sure if its legal in texas.
It's not legal in Texas.
I don't wear a uniform and I rarely open carry even when working. It depends on where I'm going and what I'm doing there.
I think it should be legal anywhere and if folks want to do it they should be able to do it. I personally wouldn't but I don't fault anyone for wanting to do it.
shadowalker
10-13-09, 10:08
Concealed carry and open carry both have advantages and disadvantages.
I'm in Boise and OC about 30-50% of the time and have had no problems. OC does require a lot more situational awareness than CC which IMHO is a good thing.
I get a lot of smiles, nods, a few conversations about firearms.
Dress nice, be polite, make eye contact, smile, don't fidget with the firearm, and be comfortable.
I have a handgun permit for MD but I wouldn't OC in public.
A MD concealed handgun permit does not authorize open carry and in fact one inherent condition attached to most MD permits is that if you carry in a way that causes fear or anxiety in the general public, you can be stripped of your permit. I don't have the exact language in front of me but it's been included along with the normal "don't drink & carry" list of no-nos that's come with the renewed permit every time over the past decade.
As for open carry in general, I only do it when there is no legal way to concealed carry and when I feel the danger of being both detected and punished for concealed carry is too high. In fact, I think the last time I carried openly was in WI while teaching a LE class up there earlier this year. Went out to dinner with a bunch of students and immediately was told (by the students, who were all WI cops) to cover up my gun.
There's a great line I read in a signature line on another forum: Always carry, never tell.
Littlelebowski
10-13-09, 10:18
If given the choice, I see no reason to advertise what and where you're carrying.
I'm all for people exercising their rights with open carry. I think that it ultimately comes down to asking yourself "Why do I carry?" I don't carry to exercise my right to carry, I carry to exercise my right to life. The best way that I can protect my life and the lives of my family or friends is to not appear to be a threat or a target. I can do very little about the situation if i'm bleeding out on the floor.
I don't care how much situational awareness you have, there are situations that are beyond your awareness abilities to avoid. Say you're walking in front of the windows of a bank on your way to deposit your paycheck. A criminal inside the bank could see your gun on your hip and shoot you when you walk in or greet you with the business end of his weapon and disarm you right as you open the door. That gun did you a whole lot of good huh? If you carry concealed and walk into the bank, the criminal wouldn't identify you as the same type of threat and probably just tell you to get on the ground.
Carrying concealed gives me options. The option to act or not to act if I so choose. OC forces your hand before you've even seen your cards.
Always carry, never tell.
There is probably no more hotly debated topic between carriers than Open vs. Concealed.
The proponents of OC rely primarily upon ideological arguments to support their cause. The opponents among us (or at least, and those who choose not to practice OC) make arguments based upon upon training and tactical considerations. One might liken it to thinking with the heart vs. thinking with the mind. We mock liberals for that. Curious.
I believe, as the proponents do, that a free citizen should be able to carry his gun however and wherever he likes. It is, after all, America. That being said, discretion is the better part of valor. I have had official contact with people reported for open-carrying, and passed that thought on to them. Some get it, some don't. Either way, it's legal. I wish them well.
The argument that one must rely upon open carry to effectively carry in certain climates is nonsense. The carrier needs better gear or more dedication.
geminidglocker
10-13-09, 11:11
I always conceal.
Other than on a range during some types of formal training-NO. I see no reason to give up a potential tactical advantage. I also tend to avoid safarai vests and black fanny packs as well (at least those that are not conspicuously branded or have a patch sew/velcroed on them).
IMHO, I think they is a subset of those who OC who want to be accorded the "treatment" and "respect" of being viewed as a LEO, despite often not having earned LEO status.
YMMV greatly,
david of vcdgrips.com
MarshallDodge
10-13-09, 11:47
Most of the time I carry concealed. In the summer, hiking, camping, are the times I carry openly.
In Utah it is legal to carry openly without a permit if you are 18 or older. There are restrictions as to where you can carry and how the gun is loaded. If you have a permit then you can carry open or concealed nearly everywhere and the loaded gun restrictions are removed.
When I have carried openly I get a lot of good responses. I think there are pros and cons to both ways and have no issue with someone choosing one or the other.
In Utah it is legal to carry openly without a permit if you are 18 or older. There are restrictions as to where you can carry and how the gun is loaded.
Just a note for non Utah people. Unless things have changed, open carry in Utah is legal for unloaded guns (without a carry permit which also allows concealed carry). "Unloaded" is a technical definition. It means it requires 2 actions to fire the gun instead of 1. So an auto loader with a loaded magazine, empty chamber is "unloaded" for this definition. (action one is rack the slide, two is pull the trigger). A DA revolver with an empty chamber so you pull the trigger twice is "unloaded" for this definition.
Chad
rifleman2000
10-13-09, 13:09
Too recap and address some statements.
Open carry is not an ideological choice for some people, it is not a "statement". There are tactical disadvantages/advantages. There are concerns about public awareness.
Some people open carry (myself) because of the way they dress. When I tuck my shirt in, it is open carry. I do not have a special holster for tuck in concealed, nor do I think it is "tactically" sound.
There are tactical advantages to open carry. Easier access is a huge one. I guess all of our emotional arguments left that one out. A deterrent factor is real, if scoffed at by concealed only people. Somebody please cite some statistics that show how many acts of crime were deterred by open carry and how many were motivated by open carry. I don't think there are any. But basic research shows that criminals prefer easy, unarmed targets. In fact, that research is what jump started the resurgance in carrying firearms for self-defense nationally, beginning in Florida. So the case for open carry is actually stronger than concealed carry.
It is a choice. But I disagree that open carry is in any way tactically disadvantaged over concealed. It is a pros and con thing.
Concealed carry: Pros- surprise
Cons- no deterrent factor, not as accessible
Open carry: Pros- ease of employing, deterrent factor
Cons- no element of surprise (assuming the perp is observant enough to pick up on your weapon, a surprisingly large number of people do not notice open carry on a regular basis)
I think I have reason enought to OC without giving a damn about making a statement.
How is that for my emotional plea?
I've open carried on many occasions here in Las Vegas but haven't in quite some time, read several years. I have a Brommeland OWB holster that is very nice in appearance and professional looking to carry my 5" CQB 1911 along with a matching Beltman belt and mag holster.
Whenever I would OC I would be dressed quite well as to not bring attention to myself, I also have very short hair which I think helps. I would say that 99% of the people would never even notice that I was OC'ing and the few who did would not react at all. There were a few people who would give the point & stare reaction but they were in the definite minority. Most of the time they're looking at my wife, she makes for a great distraction ;)
My reasoning for OC'ing was for my own philosophical beliefs concerning having to pay to carry concealed, criminals rarely will. I still do not feel that you should have to pay for a CC permit and the abillity to protect one's self or others around them, that will never change. Why should I have to pay a tax to defend myself?
A few other things comes to mind... If one chooses to OC don't go out with your mohawk, trench coat, facial piercings and a tactical thigh holster and expect not to get harassed, wake up! You have the right to dress any way you want but you will get more unwanted attention than you want... If you're in Vegas I wouldn't recommend OC'ing on the Strip, although not illegal it will get you alot of unwanted attention as well.
For what it's worth on the few occasions I've seen people OC'ing they do get my attention rather quickly :D But then again so do most people who are CC'ing as they don't know how not to print very effectively in the Vegas summer heat and that includes LEOs.
Open carry requires a much higher level of situational awareness that most people simply aren't prepared to live when openly carrying.
While I completely agree with your first point, I know many people who despite having a CCW don't even carry concealed in a responsible manner. So where does that leave the rest of us?
Just because some percentage of the population doesn't do it right, what should that have to do with me?
I personally have observed a few LEOs who demonstrated a lower level of situational awareness than myself. And I'm sure if you can catch me on a bad day you might catch me without my elbow over my holstered weapon for a moment in time.
By the same token there are folks who believe because their handgun is concealed they can't be made and they have little or no weapon retention training nor do they even consider it necessary.
During informal training sessions with new people I've noticed only the guys who are LEOs have any ability at all in this area. Guys who have been carrying concealed are the easiest to disarm. They are usually amazed that an attacker can get their gun before they can.
These aren't of course difficult skills to learn and develop, but if you've never done it you generally possess little or no ability.
CarlosDJackal
10-13-09, 14:26
...You either support our rights to carry both openly and concealed or you don't, there is NO middle ground.
I personally am not a fan of open carry but am not in any way against it. I think it is a great way to gain unwanted attention. IMHO, anyone who chooses to open carry should suck it up and quit whining about the attention they receive for doing so. It's a side-effect for living in a society that has been taught that only the Police and bad men should be allowed to carry. Just like women who wear skimpy and revealing outfits. If you don't want men staring, don't wear anything that calls for such stares.
If I were a violent criminal robbing who was robbing an establishment, the first individual I would cap is the guy with the gun. If I wanted to obtain a gun for a violent crime, I would target someone who is open carrying. Try as you might you can't be alert 100% of the time.
Have I ever open carried? Yes. Did I want to? Not really but in Virginia the only way you can legally carry in any establishment that serves alcohol is to do just that. I am hoping that the next Governor will not veto the bill to repeal that law as the last two have. The only other times I OC was when I was still in uniform and on duty. In this case I had at least a Level 2 holster and my right arm spent a lot of time pressed up against my sidearm for retention.
IMHO, OC outside of special circumstances is akin to playing Life Poker with your cards in full view for everyone else to see. JM2CW.
Open carry requires a much higher level of situational awareness that most people simply aren't prepared to live when openly carrying.
Not to mention a retention holster and a well-tuned bullshit deflector to deal with the people who will bug you even if it's perfectly legal.
The only time I'd even consider it in normal daily life would be discretely uncovering in order to comply with the "restaurant ban" in Virginia that idiotically allows open carry but not concealed carry in any restaurant or club where alcohol is served for consumption on premises.
Otherwise, for safety, tactical and "I don't want to have to explain myself" reasons, I just don't do it.
I understand that some folks do it deliberately so that they can interact with non-gun owners and try to make them more comfortable with the idea of carrying, and for other political reasons. I have mixed feelings about that but it's certainly their right. It's not for me, though.
Again, I'm not against Open Carry, but a wise man once told me... "Would you walk around with your money hanging out?"
There is some creedence to the notion that some people who CC don't pay as much attention. (not more or less that OC people, just that they don't pay enough attention when they are carrying. Printing all over the place, flashing on accident, all that jazz. Wearing the wrong clothing to cover their firearm and such. That's just not something that is taught in most cases. They just want to know if you're proficient with your weapon and that you know when NOT to use it in most classes. (liability reasons)
I make sure to do the once around in the mirror every time I get ready to leave the house. Including a bend and a reach. It only takes a second, but can save you a lot of aggravation. I'd bet most of the people on this board get it, but this is just a very small sample of the huge number of people that carry
. I do like to play the "who's carrying" game though. If you watch closely, you'll see them out there.
I OC'd a lot more when I lived in VA. It is legal where I am out and I know ALL the LE in the area, but still don't do it here.
In the South, you can get away with it easier than you can in the North IMHO.
C4
I thought the "open carry" issue was still working its way through the courts in Ohio? Reason I ask is that a law school classmate of mine is actually involved in a case right now on open carry up there and he mentioned it when we were talking about another unrelated case that we're both working on.
Outlander Systems
10-13-09, 14:46
One plus to open carry is comfort.
I've done it, but not nearly as frequently as CC.
What usually determines the course is whether or not I'm carrying a full-size or a compact.
The full-size almost requires OC, since the printing is so bad attempting to CC is impossible, short of wearing a parka.
I'm considering getting a boatload of baggy Hawaiian shirts to make CC'ing full-sized hanguns more tactically sound.
I don't think that anyone has said you shouldn't have the right. What we have said is that it isn't the smartest of choices and if one were living in a state where CCW wasn't legal, but open carry was the only option then by all means.
I think that everyone has spelled out their reasons being for and against so please let's not have this thread go south and get locked like the last 20 that have been debated here.
There is probably no more hotly debated topic between carriers than Open vs. Concealed. Well, maybe 9mm vs 45 but that's another rant. I do both as my state rocks and it's legal for either, permit optional.
Both have their places. There are times when you shouldn't OC and there are times where it's fine. I have been around quiet a few LE while OC'ing and have received ZERO problems. I have OC'd around the Governor and the State Troopers guarding her never gave me a second look.
Most of the time people think I'm LE. I'm fit, well dressed, and short hair. People coming up and asking me if I was an officer has led to some great discussions where I've been able to help educate people about their rights.
You're experiences may greatly vary as I am in one of the best states for firearms and open carrying.
Nothing makes me more sick that gun owners who are anti-open carry advocates. They are just as bad as the liberal gun grabbers trying to force their views on me. If you don't want to then don't, but why on earth would you try and hamper my right to OC? You either support our rights to carry both openly and concealed or you don't, there is NO middle ground.
I don't think that anyone has said you shouldn't have the right. What we have said is that it isn't the smartest of choices and if one were living in a state where CCW wasn't legal, but open carry was the only option then by all means.
I think that everyone has spelled out their reasons being for and against so please let's not have this thread go south and get locked like the last 20 that have been debated here.
I wasn't trying to slam anyone here by the last line of my post. Sadly I've ran across lots of gun owners who are very outspoken against OC even though it is a gun right they should be protecting.
Living where I do almost everyone has guns and is used to seeing them, if they even notice I'm OC'ing. I could post some very positive experiences with law enforcement, kids, curious people, store managers, etc, but I don't want to hijack the thread. I have never yet had a negative experience but there have been a lot of people educated.
Maybe I have a lot of positive experiences because I don't walk around acting like I own the place or someone with a chip on their shoulder. I grew up in small towns and I hold that same politeness to the "big" city. I make eye contact with people, give passing people the courtesy nod, smile where appropriate, hold doors for people, and just don't act like an ass.
There are people who go out OC'ing looking for trouble from cops and to cause a stir, you can find those videos on YouTube. The rest of us however have our own reasons for doing it, whether it's comfortable, a matter of being able to educate people, it's hot and we don't want to wear a jacket, or whatever.
I maintain a heightened level of awareness on a day-to-day basis, however when OC'ing it does bring some additional factors into play.
From a tactical stand point taking people by surprise is generally the best option, however I have yet to even hear of a story where someone OC'ing was shot first in a robbery or such because the bad guy saw their gun. The only story I have been able to find was a few months back where a man was in a store OC'ing, while he was waiting in line a guy walks in, walks right up and shoots the store owner. The OC'er drew, I believe fired on the guy right there...rest of the specifics I'm a bit fuzzy on however I believe he OC'er ended up killing the BG.
I've never robbed a store however in MY PERSONAL OPINION unless the robber is a true professional and looking for a firearm, he's going to be so jacked up on adrenalin he's not going to notice a lot of specifics as he's trying to take in and handle a LOT of factors all at once.
...Cons- no element of surprise (assuming the perp is observant enough to pick up on your weapon, a surprisingly large number of people do not notice open carry on a regular basis)....
This absolutely blows my mind. It's amazing how many people will not notice a full sized pistol sitting on someone's belt right next to the big gold badge. I was at a guy's house interviewing him a few years ago with my SIG 229 and badge on my belt. No jacket, no baggy shirt. The shirt was light colored. I talked to him for over an hour and then we went outside to have a smoke. He didn't notice my gun until I reached into my pocket to get my lighter. This was not an isolated incident, it happens relatively frequently.
I just wanted to make sure we are all on the same page. Again, the beauty of this country for the moment is we have freedom of choice.
You also won't hear anything on the news or see anything in the paper about a criminal getting the drop on someone who is OC because it would be all but impossible to get that info and I am sure that there has never been such a study. Let's not forget that most of the printed media portays gun owners like idiots and most articles are decidedly anti-gun.
I wasn't trying to slam anyone here by the last line of my post. Sadly I've ran across lots of gun owners who are very outspoken against OC even though it is a gun right they should be protecting.
Living where I do almost everyone has guns and is used to seeing them, if they even notice I'm OC'ing. I could post some very positive experiences with law enforcement, kids, curious people, store managers, etc, but I don't want to hijack the thread. I have never yet had a negative experience but there have been a lot of people educated.
Maybe I have a lot of positive experiences because I don't walk around acting like I own the place or someone with a chip on their shoulder. I grew up in small towns and I hold that same politeness to the "big" city. I make eye contact with people, give passing people the courtesy nod, smile where appropriate, hold doors for people, and just don't act like an ass.
There are people who go out OC'ing looking for trouble from cops and to cause a stir, you can find those videos on YouTube. The rest of us however have our own reasons for doing it, whether it's comfortable, a matter of being able to educate people, it's hot and we don't want to wear a jacket, or whatever.
I maintain a heightened level of awareness on a day-to-day basis, however when OC'ing it does bring some additional factors into play.
From a tactical stand point taking people by surprise is generally the best option, however I have yet to even hear of a story where someone OC'ing was shot first in a robbery or such because the bad guy saw their gun. The only story I have been able to find was a few months back where a man was in a store OC'ing, while he was waiting in line a guy walks in, walks right up and shoots the store owner. The OC'er drew, I believe fired on the guy right there...rest of the specifics I'm a bit fuzzy on however I believe he OC'er ended up killing the BG.
I've never robbed a store however in MY PERSONAL OPINION unless the robber is a true professional and looking for a firearm, he's going to be so jacked up on adrenalin he's not going to notice a lot of specifics as he's trying to take in and handle a LOT of factors all at once.
I just wanted to make sure we are all on the same page. Again, the beauty of this country for the moment is we have freedom of choice.
You also won't hear anything on the news or see anything in the paper about a criminal getting the drop on someone who is OC because it would be all but impossible to get that info and I am sure that there has never been such a study. Let's not forget that most of the printed media portays gun owners like idiots and most articles are decidedly anti-gun.
Very true, and actually I made a mistake. There are 2 news articles regarding OC'ers and bad guys. 1) The one I already mentioned. 2) Where an OC'er was robbed of his pistol. Which just goes to show how much more aware you should be when OC'ing.
Being that I live where I live I OC quite a bit. Now if I lived in some liberal haven where OC was legal I would exercise a bit of prudence and weigh the options very carefully.
it not that easy to find info on because i doubt anything really happens from it. more then likely you wont be put in that fate situation. if i was the bad guy and saw an OC(atleast in tx) i would think cop and put the plan on hold, wait for them to leave, then continue. even w/ concealed carry, the stories are out there, but i wonder what % of people will actually ever even draw their gun.
Cueball1897
10-13-09, 18:13
I OC when I'm in shirt and tie, but I rarely stop anywhere while doing so. I have a Fobus GL2 that I purchased for concealed carry, but only use it for CC in the winter. I have another one I use during the warmer months that works a lot better for me.
I've never had any issues while OC, but then again I'm sure most people assume I'm law enforcement.
Also I live in Hampton Roads and after Norfolk has had to pay out twice to the same man regarding two OC issues, I'm sure the legality of OC in Virginia is being distributed to all law enforcement. I've heard of more LEO thanking people for OC than people having any issues. LEO will sometimes encourage CC if one can legally do so (CHP) to avoid such issues.
I also hope McDonald makes it in and the restaurant ban is lifted. The ban is silly IMHO, the people with a CHP are not the ones they need to be concerned with.
I'm all for people exercising their rights with open carry. I think that it ultimately comes down to asking yourself "Why do I carry?" I don't carry to exercise my right to carry, I carry to exercise my right to life. The best way that I can protect my life and the lives of my family or friends is to not appear to be a threat or a target. I can do very little about the situation if i'm bleeding out on the floor.
I don't care how much situational awareness you have, there are situations that are beyond your awareness abilities to avoid. Say you're walking in front of the windows of a bank on your way to deposit your paycheck. A criminal inside the bank could see your gun on your hip and shoot you when you walk in or greet you with the business end of his weapon and disarm you right as you open the door. That gun did you a whole lot of good huh? If you carry concealed and walk into the bank, the criminal wouldn't identify you as the same type of threat and probably just tell you to get on the ground.
Carrying concealed gives me options. The option to act or not to act if I so choose. OC forces your hand before you've even seen your cards.
Always carry, never tell.
I see your point your making, but I would refrain from carrying into any bank, pretty sure that is illegal at least in Florida
MarshallDodge
10-13-09, 18:39
The issue with people not even noticing is legitimate.
The gal who cuts my hair has a little salon in her house. Her husband recently got his concealed permit so I thought it would be OK if I carried my gun on me. I walked in, took off my jacket exposing my stainless 1911, and sat down in the chair. She put an apron on me, cut my hair, and when I was finished I got out of the chair as her husband walked in. We chatted for a while and then I put my jacket on and left.
A month later I was back again and I proceeded to do the same thing. As she was putting on the apron she was pretty startled. She wanted to know why I carried a gun in her house and I told her that I had carried it there last time and nobody seemed to mind. She admitted that she had never seen it.
I found out that her husband had only carried once on a camping trip so far which makes me think that she is not completely comfortable with the idea yet.
If OC'ing with a properly fit rig the chances of a criminal noticing are just about as much as the majority of others who are completely oblivious. In fact it might help with the perp thinking one is an LEO and not wanting to bother or tempt fate. Honestly I see it going both ways, positive & negative... if everybody OC'ed then it would be a really big deterrent to criminals :D
If OC'ing with a properly fit rig the chances of a criminal noticing are just about as much as the majority of others who are completely oblivious. In fact it might help with the perp thinking one is an LEO and not wanting to bother or tempt fate. Honestly I see it going both ways, positive & negative... if everybody OC'ed then it would be a really big deterrent to criminals :D
"An armed society is a polite society." :D
I open carry once in a while. Specifically, I do it when I want to be armed when eating at a restaurant that serves alcohol, so as to be compliant with VA law.
When in such a restaurant, faced with the choice of (1) being unarmed, (2) being armed illegally [concealed], or (3) being armed legally [open], open carry IMO makes sense.
Funny that the law change in 1995 to make VA CHLs "shall issue" also made the CHLs invalid in restaurants that serves alcohol, resulting in the state compelling open carry. I've seen open carry in VA since I was a kid, but it certainly became more frequent after 1995.
By the way, I've had no problems or negative comments while open carrying.
No OC here.
That being said I can not see why there is an "advantage" to OC over CCW.
I'll stick with the CCW, for both reasons.
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