Airline cutbacks can be hell

[CarlosDJackal]

Airlines forced to cut costs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-nX6g148mA&feature=related)

[spamsammich]

Ain't that the truth? I'm still getting used to the idea of paying just to check baggage.

[Preferred User]

Paying for a checked bag is ridiculous. All that does is makes people take a bigger carry-on.

Most of those carry-ons are too big to fit in the overhead bin correctly (even though they fit in the measuring device). So all those people traipse down the jetway ramp, get to the cabin entrance and have to gate check their bag. This creates a delay in getting on the plane. It creates a hazard because you have a stack of luggage at the end of the jetway ramp, it is harder on the ramp attendant/baggage handlers because they have to carry luggage up and down the stairs from the jetway. Once the plane arrives at the destination there is a further delay and congestion at the arrival jetway as all the putzes that gate checked their bags wait to have them delivered from the cargo hold.

Those people should all be charged $40 for gate checking their bags.

I recently traveled for training and instead of packing two small checked bags, my wife and I packed one 48.6 pound bag. I am sure the baggage handlers were much happier that I packed one heavy ass bag rather than two they could easily pack in the hold.

[M4arc]

Paying for a checked bag is ridiculous. All that does is makes people take a bigger carry-on.

Most of those carry-ons are too big to fit in the overhead bin correctly (even though they fit in the measuring device). So all those people traipse down the jetway ramp, get to the cabin entrance and have to gate check their bag. This creates a delay in getting on the plane. It creates a hazard because you have a stack of luggage at the end of the jetway ramp, it is harder on the ramp attendant/baggage handlers because they have to carry luggage up and down the stairs from the jetway. Once the plane arrives at the destination there is a further delay and congestion at the arrival jetway as all the putzes that gate checked their bags wait to have them delivered from the cargo hold.

Those people should all be charged $40 for gate checking their bags.

I recently traveled for training and instead of packing two small checked bags, my wife and I packed one 48.6 pound bag. I am sure the baggage handlers were much happier that I packed one heavy ass bag rather than two they could easily pack in the hold.

Preach it!

[Preferred User]

Preach it!
:o Sorry. I'll step off my soap box now.

[Gutshot John]

Is it just me or does it seem that the current business model of the airline industry is to discourage as many people from flying as possible. :confused:

Honestly I resent the whole notion of air travel. I resent that I have to put up with TSA security monkeys who lose my bags and search/fondle my guns everytime I fly. I resent the pretense that all this extra inconvenience is to make us safer when we all know it doesn't because they refuse to address the underlying problems (i.e. strip searching granny for fear of racial profiling some muslim).

The only time I even consider flying is when it's longer than a 12 hour drive.

Honestly I hope they all go bankrupt.

[boltcatch]

That's it right there.

Instead of taking effective action, they make security as annoying as possible hoping that people mistake inconvenience with effectiveness. They do this because they don't have the balls to implement procedures that piss on someone's sacred cow of political correctness.

This is the very same reason you find Child Protective Services annoying the **** out of regular parents, why schools flip out over little Johnny bringing a pair of nail clippers to school, and why "gun control" is always aimed at law abiding citizens. It's just easier to pretend to be doing something useful.

I'm sure there is someone here who has flown to and from Israel who can chime in on their airport security, and how simple and effective it is.

[Cruncher Block]

Wait... we're blaming airlines for what the TSA does?

Isn't that like blaming the gunstore owner because NICS is down?

[ST911]

The majority of folks I've been on planes with either bring two carry-ons, or at least one ridiciulously large carry-on that doesn't belong, rather than check bags. It's annoying, as I'm invariably run into, asked to help them lift them, have them fall on me, or they otherwise encumber me in some way.

Try standing in line behind one of those folks and loudly ask them, "gosh, is that carry-on within the size limits? Neat!"

Until my life-support gear is allowed in carry-ons, I have to check my bag(s). Hitting the 50lb limit is pretty easy on multi-day trips.

[parishioner]

Quick Question.

Before I ask, I will say that last weekend I flew with Southwest from New Orleans to Vegas to Denver and back and everything went smoothly. No hassles or holdups. Just the typical annoyances for instance an overly excited and educated couple doing NY Times crossword puzzles behind me. :eek: By the way, I think southwest is also allowing bags to be checked free of charge.

Anyway, when I returned, I was talking about my trip with my brother in law and informed me that commercial flights often carry goods and other cargo in the plane when bags do not fill it up. He also said that not every piece of cargo is screened by security, leaving a potential window for threats.

Is there any merit to this?

Thanks

[Longhorn]

Quick Question.

Before I ask, I will say that last weekend I flew with Southwest from New Orleans to Vegas to Denver and back and everything went smoothly. No hassles or holdups. Just the typical annoyances for instance an overly excited and educated couple doing NY Times crossword puzzles behind me. :eek: By the way, I think southwest is also allowing bags to be checked free of charge.

Anyway, when I returned, I was talking about my trip with my brother in law and informed me that commercial flights often carry goods and other cargo in the plane when bags do not fill it up. He also said that not every piece of cargo is screened by security, leaving a potential window for threats.

Is there any merit to this?

Thanks

Depends on the airline, but generally - yes. Same thing with "overselling" a flight. It's all a #s game, and weight plays a part in it, but that's a different story...

My dad's a pilot for Delta and my uncle for USAir. I've heard it all, and some of them I'm right there with the choir on some of the bitching...

But what REALLY gets to me more then anything is 2 fold.

1) A-holes sitting in the very back putting their bag above my seat in ~22B. I get some of the overheads towards the rear are somewhat smaller, but there isn't quite a need for you to be that much of a lazy ass to walk the length of the fuselage with your shit.

2) Putting their 2" x 2" bag in the overhead. If my 6'1", 245lbs, 32" inseam and size 14 boot self can fit a garment/computer bag under/between my feet in coach and still fall asleep, your little bag can fit between your legs for the 55 min it takes to get from RDU to Atlanta.

[littleshoe]

After flying international I have been spoiled.

[kmrtnsn]

I'm to the point that I refuse to fly unless I absolutely have to. Especially the big four, NW, Delta, United, and American. No way in hell you'll get me on a SW plane, even if it were free. I do like Midwest Express and have heard good things about the new U.S. Virgin carrier but have not flown them.

[M4arc]

:o Sorry. I'll step off my soap box now.

No, I was in complete agreement. I usually have four flights a week so I feel your pain.

[M4arc]

Quick Question.

Before I ask, I will say that last weekend I flew with Southwest from New Orleans to Vegas to Denver and back and everything went smoothly. No hassles or holdups. Just the typical annoyances for instance an overly excited and educated couple doing NY Times crossword puzzles behind me. :eek: By the way, I think southwest is also allowing bags to be checked free of charge.

Anyway, when I returned, I was talking about my trip with my brother in law and informed me that commercial flights often carry goods and other cargo in the plane when bags do not fill it up. He also said that not every piece of cargo is screened by security, leaving a potential window for threats.

Is there any merit to this?

Thanks

In most cases flights break even or make a little money by hauling packages.

[Longhorn]

In most cases flights break even or make a little money by hauling packages.

Yeah, that and let's just note too we aren't talking "mysterious packages with foreign markings".

It could be 2,000lbs of car parts or 20lbs of flowers. Aircraft going overseas tend to carry more cargo then a flight from Phoenix to Minneapolis. Takeoff weight and initial/final destination(s) all play a part.

[6933]

Flying is generally a hassle these days.

[rjacobs]

I do like Midwest Express

Midwest Express is no longer operated by Midwest employees. A regional airline bought them, parked all of their airplanes, furloughed all of their employees and substituted their own airplanes and crews in their place. Midwest is now what we call in the airline industry a "virtual airline". The only thing left from the original Midwest is the name, nothing else. Its a shame. The airline that replaced them pays their captains about 80 bucks an hour and first officers 40, the Midwest pilots that were replaced were making 160 as a captain and 100-120 as a first officer. This same airline that bought Midwest also bought Frontier out of bankruptcy and is probably going to do the same thing to them. I urge you to not fly Midwest anymore.

[Belmont31R]

Flying is another one of those things you have to hold your nose to do anymore.


TSA sucks...are rude, stupid, and provide a false sense of security.

Nickle and dimed for everything which leads to the no room for carry on baggage unless you are on the first half getting on.

Constant overbooked flights. Last Christmas...a couple months before I got out of the Army...my wife was already living in our house in TX and I was at Ft Lewis. Bought my Christmas flight home ticket a good month+ before the flight date. Get to the gate (in uniform because I left right after my last formation before our 4 day) and told Im being put on standby because the flight was overbooked. That was the last flight out, and since its such a busy time they didn't have another flight for 3 days. Then they would not try to book me on another airline. I had to buy another ticket Christmas day. Frontier would not give me a refund on my flight because I purchased the cheap ticket and not the refundable one. So they basically took almost a thousand dollars from me, didn't get me on a flight, and then refused to give me my money back for THEIR mistake. They want me to pay an extra couple hundred per ticket so its refundable if THEY overbook a flight and refuse to honor a contract for services?

I havent flown since, and will not unless there is just no other way to get somewhere. If we ever got visit my wifes family we will be driving. Ive driven from TX to WA in 36 hours. Id rather deal with that than flying.

And putting the tinfoil on....my wife and kids will never be going through their new TSA nude scanners that basically give a black and white photograph of yourself naked to some POS TSA idiot on the other side. Sorry but the airlines and the TSA can go jump off a cliff before my family goes through that. Id rather take the risk some jihad is on a flight than subject countless passengers to this level of intrusion. Freedom before security and all that. Im free to not fly....so I wont.

Im only 25, and remember as a kid getting into the cockpit in flight and having the captain pin 'plastic' wings on my shirt. Now you'll get arrested and thrown in jail for knocking on the cockpit door let alone being in the cockpit. Now stewardesses have crappy attitudes most of the time....on a multi hour flight you'd be lucky to get a bag of peanuts and a half glass of water. On my flight back to WA that Christmas on the flight before me had someone PUKE in the seats because they got airsick. Did they clean it up? No. The person sitting next to me and I had to go to the bathroom and get toilet paper to clean it up. I still smelled vomit all the way from AZ to WA.

[rjacobs]

People complain all the time about what they didnt get when traveling and what they deserved. The truth about airline service is that all we are required by federal law to do is get you from A to B alive, everything else(drinks, food, baggage handling, re-booking, on time, same day, etc...) is simply icing on the cake. While I dont agree with this, it is what it is and has caused the airlines to basically screw everybody(including their employees) in the name of the almighty dollar. Flying is not a right its a privilege, but the general public treats it as a right.

The Europeans have been doing what is called Ala-Cart ticketing for a few years and most people seem to like it. You buy what you want and not anything that you dont. You want to travel from A to B, check no bags, get no food or drink, etc... here is your price. You want to check a bag-here is your price. You want food and drinks-here is your price. It seems to work in Europe, but I dont think it will work over here because Americans are of the impression that they deserve everything for their $59 ticket to see grandma.

Ticket prices in the USA are the same or less than they were 30 years ago. They have not kept up with inflation/cost of living. If they did they would be on average 90% higher than they are today. Airlines today are flying with record passenger loads, yet are charging so little for a seat they are flying for free or a loss. We(the airlines) are not subsidized by the government at all. There is a problem though with setting ticket prices to where they should be, nobody will fly. Ticket prices should have been staying constant with inflation, then nobody would know that $50 ticket's existed, they would be so used to paying nearly $500(for that same $50 ticket) for a ticket that it wouldn't seem like a big deal. Now if its over 100 bucks its not worth it to many people and they would rather drive(even though driving would cost them more).

This may seem like a defense to the airlines, but its not, its simply how it is, and I agree that it sucks. Trust me, we as airline employees deal with all of the shitty things, and more, that the average passenger deals with, but we are supposed to put on a smile and make everything ok. According to passengers, everything is our(the pilots) fault. Airplane breaks-our fault, blizzard(or thunderstorm) closes the airport(origin or destination)-our fault, diverting due to weather or airport traffic-our fault, and a bunch of other things. We get harassed by TSA on a daily basis(So I harass them right back:D), we get screwed by the same company that just screwed you(screwed up pay, cancelled flight, days off taken away because the company doesnt know how to staff, delayed flight causes us to miss our commute home and get stuck sleeping in the airport, etc...).

[ZDL]

*******

[decodeddiesel]

Ain't that the truth? I'm still getting used to the idea of paying just to check baggage.

Tell me about it. I ended up shelling out $80 for my wife and I to fly one bag each round trip.

Further more the mass AFL/CIO influence on the flight attendants and staff is sickening. They are downright rude anymore.

[Belmont31R]

People complain all the time about what they didnt get when traveling and what they deserved. The truth about airline service is that all we are required by federal law to do is get you from A to B alive, everything else(drinks, food, baggage handling, re-booking, on time, same day, etc...) is simply icing on the cake. While I dont agree with this, it is what it is and has caused the airlines to basically screw everybody(including their employees) in the name of the almighty dollar. Flying is not a right its a privilege, but the general public treats it as a right.

The Europeans have been doing what is called Ala-Cart ticketing for a few years and most people seem to like it. You buy what you want and not anything that you dont. You want to travel from A to B, check no bags, get no food or drink, etc... here is your price. You want to check a bag-here is your price. You want food and drinks-here is your price. It seems to work in Europe, but I dont think it will work over here because Americans are of the impression that they deserve everything for their $59 ticket to see grandma.

Ticket prices in the USA are the same or less than they were 30 years ago. They have not kept up with inflation/cost of living. If they did they would be on average 90% higher than they are today. Airlines today are flying with record passenger loads, yet are charging so little for a seat they are flying for free or a loss. We(the airlines) are not subsidized by the government at all. There is a problem though with setting ticket prices to where they should be, nobody will fly. Ticket prices should have been staying constant with inflation, then nobody would know that $50 ticket's existed, they would be so used to paying nearly $500(for that same $50 ticket) for a ticket that it wouldn't seem like a big deal. Now if its over 100 bucks its not worth it to many people and they would rather drive(even though driving would cost them more).

This may seem like a defense to the airlines, but its not, its simply how it is, and I agree that it sucks. Trust me, we as airline employees deal with all of the shitty things, and more, that the average passenger deals with, but we are supposed to put on a smile and make everything ok. According to passengers, everything is our(the pilots) fault. Airplane breaks-our fault, blizzard(or thunderstorm) closes the airport(origin or destination)-our fault, diverting due to weather or airport traffic-our fault, and a bunch of other things. We get harassed by TSA on a daily basis(So I harass them right back:D), we get screwed by the same company that just screwed you(screwed up pay, cancelled flight, days off taken away because the company doesnt know how to staff, delayed flight causes us to miss our commute home and get stuck sleeping in the airport, etc...).


Id be glad to pay more than I was and get QUALITY service than pay what we are now and get crap INCLUDING overbooking flights and then taking the persons money while not able to book another flight because everything is full. The airlines may lose money on some flights...but doesnt give them the 'right' to steal almost a thousand dollars from people with no fault of their own.

If they want to charge money for checked baggage no problem with that. Just cut down on the size and or number of carry on baggage. On a full flight unless you are in the 1st half of people getting on the overhead bins are already full and you have to stuff you crap under the seat and be uncomfortable the entire flight.

If you don't want to offer a meal service for a multi-hour flight I again have no problem with that but let me take my own food and not be forced to buy it at twice the 'normal' rate because the airport vendors know people either pay them or go without a meal for several hours of flying.

It also doesnt mean flight staff needs to be rude because they have new powers since 9/11. Some are still very nice...the the percentage of 'bitches' to the nice one is a lot higher now. Ive had stewardesses give me angel medallions to 'protect' me since I was in uniform but others seem to have an attitude doing basic things like cleaning vomit up from a seat and then having the paying passengers be forced to clean it up or sit in for a 4 hour flight.

And again if these new nude scanners at going to become standard then no one in my family will be on another flight. I know of A LOT of people who refuse to fly anymore because it has become just a huge hassle for the casual flyer, and the TSA continues to alienate potential customers of the airlines with their ever increasing arcane "safety procedures". Im sure you wouldn't like your wife or daughter getting a nude scan to be viewed by some random stranger...I refuse to subject my wife to that. So be it. I just don't want to hear the airlines bitch about loss of revenue and costs.

[rjacobs]

Id be glad to pay more than I was and get QUALITY service than pay what we are now and get crap INCLUDING overbooking flights and then taking the persons money while not able to book another flight because everything is full. The airlines may lose money on some flights...but doesnt give them the 'right' to steal almost a thousand dollars from people with no fault of their own.

I agree that something needs to be done with this. However like I said, the only thing the airline is required to do is not kill you while getting you from A to B eventually. Some airlines have taken this to the extreme. While I would like to think that airline service would get better if ticket prices were higher and pay was increased, I dont know if it would because current management(since 9/11) has been all about lining their pockets while bleeding the employees and customers dry and I dont see that changing. The only thing, without a big change, higher ticket prices would do is to increase the pocket book size of the CEO's.

If they want to charge money for checked baggage no problem with that. Just cut down on the size and or number of carry on baggage. On a full flight unless you are in the 1st half of people getting on the overhead bins are already full and you have to stuff you crap under the seat and be uncomfortable the entire flight.

There is limits on carry on baggage, however nobody enforces it and then when it is enforced people complain that "on my last flight" I could do this and now you wont let me("sir that grand piano isnt going to fit in the overhead" "but on my last flight it fit fine"). This leads to people just saying **** it. When you hear the same thing over and over and over it gets old and you get that attitude. I fly a 50 seat jet, all I ever hear is how small it is, etc... It just gets old and after a while I just stopped caring.

If you don't want to offer a meal service for a multi-hour flight I again have no problem with that but let me take my own food and not be forced to buy it at twice the 'normal' rate because the airport vendors know people either pay them or go without a meal for several hours of flying.

Continental has forced vendors in their 3 hub airports to charge prices that they would charge at their regular locations. I think they are the only airline that does this. I dont think there are any airlines currently that will not let you bring food on. I agree though that most airports food is rediculous.

It also doesnt mean flight staff needs to be rude because they have new powers since 9/11. Some are still very nice...the the percentage of 'bitches' to the nice one is a lot higher now. Ive had stewardesses give me angel medallions to 'protect' me since I was in uniform but others seem to have an attitude doing basic things like cleaning vomit up from a seat and then having the paying passengers be forced to clean it up or sit in for a 4 hour flight.

I deal with bitch flight attendants every day. It sucks. The pay is shit, passengers are really ****ing rude, the other FA's are bitches to each other, etc... It's a shitty, thankless job. Now they could be doing something to actually make their job better, but they dont.

And again if these new nude scanners at going to become standard then no one in my family will be on another flight. I know of A LOT of people who refuse to fly anymore because it has become just a huge hassle for the casual flyer, and the TSA continues to alienate potential customers of the airlines with their ever increasing arcane "safety procedures". Im sure you wouldn't like your wife or daughter getting a nude scan to be viewed by some random stranger...I refuse to subject my wife to that. So be it. I just don't want to hear the airlines bitch about loss of revenue and costs.

The TSA, thats a whole thread worth of shit I could post up on them. They are ****ING USELESS. They are a huge waste of money for what little they do. They have 4x the amount of people they really need to get the job done. They treat us(flight crew) like we are the problem. I have been searched, brought into the "private" room a few times, etc... I FLY THE ****ING PLANE, GO GET HABEEB OVER THERE. As far as the full body scanners, I have never seen one let alone been in one so I cant speak to them. The TSA is the largest problem in commercial aviation since 9/11, they do much more harm than good.

[jmart]

Overboking is a PITA.

About carry-ons, it depends on the equipment. A bag that fits w/room to spare in a 737/320 overhead bin isn't always going to fit in a CRJ overhead bin, so don't look down on them too harshly. But folks that bring on big, tubular carryons that stretch down the whole bin ought to be drawn and quartered for rudeness and stupidity.

And it does suck to draw the seat whose bin is crammed full with emergency O2, and defibrilator and such. That's when you see them scarfing a bin that's a couple of seats fwd of where they're sitting.

[Belmont31R]

The TSA, thats a whole thread worth of shit I could post up on them. They are ****ING USELESS. They are a huge waste of money for what little they do. They have 4x the amount of people they really need to get the job done. They treat us(flight crew) like we are the problem. I have been searched, brought into the "private" room a few times, etc... I FLY THE ****ING PLANE, GO GET HABEEB OVER THERE. As far as the full body scanners, I have never seen one let alone been in one so I cant speak to them. The TSA is the largest problem in commercial aviation since 9/11, they do much more harm than good.


Ive read 1st hand accounts of Fed LEO types getting searched beyond the normal routine when they are authorized to take their side arm on the plane....better search em for nail clippers when they have a gun on their hip.


And you're most likely right about the CEO pay and increased ticket costs. Really a no win situation for the employees and passengers.... I remember watching a documentary on early commercial pax airlines, and how they used to select on stewardesses with 'good breeding'. Today, IMO, its one step up above from the cattle trucks I pass on the highway.

[Belmont31R]

Overboking is a PITA.

About carry-ons, it depends on the equipment. A bag that fits w/room to spare in a 737/320 overhead bin isn't always going to fit in a CRJ overhead bin, so don't look down on them too harshly. But folks that bring on big, tubular carryons that stretch down the whole bin ought to be drawn and quartered for rudeness and stupidity.

And it does suck to draw the seat whose bin is crammed full with emergency O2, and defibrilator and such. That's when you see them scarfing a bin that's a couple of seats fwd of where they're sitting.


The only solution is to enforce carry on baggage size limits AND reduce them. Understand about the smaller jets...flown on plenty of them. I always take a bag that can be compressed some and flexable enough to fit in tight spots. I hate the morons that take these huge bags I could fit a weeks worth of clothes in, and then they have jam the ****er into the compartment and almost break doors trying to get them to lock down over their damn bag. Should be no bags bigger than a standard back pack. If you have to wheel the ****er around it should go below......

[Preferred User]

Ive read 1st hand accounts of Fed LEO types getting searched beyond the normal routine when they are authorized to take their side arm on the plane....better search em for nail clippers when they have a gun on their hip.

Try carrying a box clearly marked and sealed with EVIDENCE tape on a flight. Talk about a load of fun. :rolleyes: