View Full Version : Effective, lightweight, muzzle brake to turn 14.5" to 16"
Thinking of dong a carbine-length gas, 1.45", lightweight profile barrel with standard MOE handguards for the woman and the boy. Due to the reduction in weight I'd also like to do a brake instead of a flash suppressor to get the 16" OAL on the barrel.
Having not paid much attention to brakes of late, what is out there? I want something that's going to take it to 16.1" and not more, so some of the very long competition brakes are out. I would also like for it to be relatively low profile and light since if it's adding back more weight than the 16" plus A2 then it's kind of pointless. Finally it needs to not increase blast appreciably to the shooter, including shooting off a bench or from prone. My Ops, Inc. brake mount for my 15th model suppressor hurts my teeth to shoot from prone with anything other than Wolf, and even then it's a banger. I don't care about disturbing other shooters in this case, but I need to not blast the hell out of two newer shooters that are used to .22 rifles and 9mm handguns.
Al U. 5811
10-15-09, 08:38
Rob,
That seems to be a tall order. For brakes, the SF MB556K works great but is a "tooth rattler", the same as what you are already using. I have to double up my hearing pro when shooting mine and my wife won't shoot it (she doesn't like the report of my SLR 105 AK74 style brakes either). Maybe the PWS or Vltor VC-1. Most brakes run about 2.125" in length.
"Short" brakes are a bit harder to find. RRA makes one, looks like a tank brake, about the same length as a G.I. flash hider. I can try to get you the OAL later. YHM also has a couple of shorties, again, don't know the OAL.
are you familiar with the Phantom Comp/Muzzle Brake?
http://www.oriontacticalgear.com/ProductImages/yhst-17178205922514_1919_5834252.gif
Having done a lot of night time comparisons of different FS's and MB's, the VLTOR is on of the best at doing everything pretty well.
Some of the best brakes I have come acrossed are the KAC TTB and the SF MB556.
Personally, I run the SF MB556 with my SF K Suppressor.
C4
I've got two of the PRI MSTN QC brakes and they do a pretty good job without having a ferocious muzzle blast. I haven't fired them in low light to see how the flash is.
How are these?
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=276
http://www.ar-15express.com/item/?itemID=175&ref=gp
http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/products/brks07.gif
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=550170
http://www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dll/image?saleitemid=550170
I've tried the Rock River "military style muzzle brake" and it's not bad but it does increase muzzle blast directed back to the shooter. It's not as bad as some like the Armalite brake, but it is noticeable.
I'd rather stick with a .22 conversion in the light rifle and a heavy rifle to soak up recoil for bench/prone 5.56 shooting. Both with flash hiders as I have not shot a brake that I thought was comfortable.
I will only suffer a brake on a light .338 LM or 50BMG. I hate being slapped in the face every time I pull the trigger and find novice shooters can handle more recoil than muzzle blast for the most part.
Wayneard3413
10-15-09, 13:34
I am running a PWS brake on a 14.5" barrel and it isn't bad for the shooter... Those off to the side do get a bit more concussion however
To echo what Grant said my current go to gun is a 10.5" LMT with a SF brake and to be honest it is about the same as my 14.5" gun
In the end a set of quality ear pro make it a non-issue for me
If you are looking for the most effective brake for controlling muzzle rise, then the SF MB556K is the best I have found. I have never found it to be a "tooth rattler" at all for me, but the other shooters on the line seem to pretty much hate it.
Shooting from traditional prone positions does cause any issues, but when shooting from "urban" or some other non-traditional prone positions, the SF brake can sure make a mess of things.
I +1 for the Surefire.
I have run it in various places for various reasons and it doesn't rattle teeth. Its ported very well and in a particular manner that places the gas as it needs to channel to optimize recovery for follow up shots.
The only other guideline I may offer is minimum 2 chambers, closed on the bottom, ported up top just off center. Just like the BC Comp and Sufefires.
Check out the PWS TTO which is a shortened version of the FSC556.
http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=88&idcategory=6#details
Here is a write up by USMC03.....
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=24396
Robb Jensen
10-15-09, 14:35
I'd recommend the KAC Triple Tap on a 14.8" - 14.9" perm attached and should make 16" and a PWS FSC556 on a 14.5" perm. attached will make 16". Both control very well. The PWS is much louder.
The less effective brakes are generally less obnoxious like the RRA Military, but will not make 16" on a 14.5" barrel.
How are these?
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=276
http://www.ar-15express.com/item/?itemID=175&ref=gp
http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/products/brks07.gif
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=550170
http://www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dll/image?saleitemid=550170
I had one of Rock River's LE comps. Avoid it at all costs. It is an ear ringer from hell.
I tend to avoid brakes like the [insert obnoxious disease of your choice], but I have heard good things about the Sabre Gill Brake.
Best I can do. :confused:
Robb Jensen
10-15-09, 22:34
I tend to avoid brakes like the [insert obnoxious disease of your choice], but I have heard good things about the Sabre Gill Brake.
Best I can do. :confused:
The Sabre is pretty damn loud too.
Rob, you want one of these, but they are no longer in production.
It's a first-generation AWC Hyperdyne compensator. ATF originally cleared it as a muzzle brake/compensator as the three top ports allowed the gas in the tube to vent.
After it was in production a few years ATF reconsidered, re-tested, and told AWC to redesign it as it dropped report a couple of decibels.
It would be perfect to convert a 14.5 middy to 16+.
http://i35.tinypic.com/6qckg1.jpg
One of 45B's retro XM177 flash hiders would also work.
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s71/45Bravo/BMXM177Mod001.jpg
non-NFA XM607
http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s71/45Bravo/MVC-554S.jpg
I'm very pleased with PWS FSC556 on my 16" middy. It's hard to quantify things like effect on recoil, muzzle jump, and noise, but I think it's had a positive effect on the first two without pushing it into the "obnoxious" loudness levels.
I use a Yankee Hill Phantom5C2.It almost blows my eardrums out
I also have a Yankee Hill Phantom 5M1. It's not as bad on the ears.
Same opinion as above on the FSC556; reduces muzzle rise with mild increase in noise. Blast to sides is noticeable to others, but not to shooter. I like it on my 16" middy, but have not tried it on 14.5"
MP
pinned an FSC556 to my 14.5 LMT works great, shoots real soft easy follow up shots. It is louder but i can live with it. No complaints from others yet.
How about the extended A2?
How about the extended A2?
He wants a brake, not a flashhider
It has been a few months, and I thought I'd bump this since the barrels I want are now available.
I'm planning on waiting it out for a non-mount version of the new Advanced Armament Brakeout muzzle device that is supposed to be along the lines of the PWS FSC556 in terms of brake & hider combo.
ColdDeadHands
02-18-10, 07:09
why do you prefer the non-mount? Just curious...
Because I won't be putting a can on it. ;)
Just rather not have the threads if I don't need them. I may well wind up getting impatient though and jumping on the mount version given AAC's history of lead times. :p
ColdDeadHands
02-18-10, 09:06
I hear you. I will give one of these a try too.
Rob,
I copied the info below from a reply in another thread, thought you might find some of the info useful.
My duty / SWAT gun has a 14.5" barrel with a PWS FSC556 permanently attached.
The PWS DNTC and FSC556 have the exact same blast chamber and I notice performance in reduction in muzzle rise was equal with both units. The FSC556 has tines at the end of the comp that help reduce flash. The DNTC has no flash reducing properties.
The TTO (Todd's Tiny One) comp is nothing more than a FSC556 with the flash reducing tines cut off. Thus it has the same reduction in muzzle rise as the DNTC and the FSC556. But the Todd's Tiny One compensator has no flash reducing features (the tines on the FSC556 is what reduces muzzle flash).
The FSC556 for the NT4 (aka SM556) has a different blast baffle than the standard FSC556 / DNTC / TTO. The blash baffle on the SM556 has less surface area. That being said, I have been running the SM556 for several months and find that it's performance in reducing muzzle rise is not as good as the FSC556 / DNTC / TTO, but fairly close.
The SM556 incorporates flash reducing tines, just like the FSC556.
The SM556 is close in performance to the FSC556, but it's 1/4" shorter than the FSC556. You can't go wrong with either compensator.
TTO - 1.65" (no flash reducing features)
USGI A2 flash hider - 1.75"
SM556 - 1.85"
DNTC - 2.00" (no flash reducing features)
FSC556 - 2.10"
The SM556 is only 1/10" longer than the USGI A2 flash hider. If you use a USGI A2 flash hider and a crush washer, it's the same length as the SM556 with a peel washer.
The Addax Bulldog is a modified standard FSC556 (not the same as the SM556)
Reviews on the TTO and a custom DNTC that gotM4 did for me:
http://03designgroup.com/photo/pws-todds-tiny-one/icon-todds-tiny-one.jpg
03designgroup | Primary Weapons System Todd's Tiny One Compensator http://demigodllc.com/icon/extwh3.png (http://www.03designgroup.com/reviews/pws-todds-tiny-one)
http://www.03designgroup.com/photo/pws-custom-dntc-compensator/icon-custom-dntc.jpg
03designgroup | Primary Weapons System (PWS) Custom DNTC Compensator http://demigodllc.com/icon/extwh3.png (http://www.03designgroup.com/reviews/pws-custom-dntc)
I ran the SM556 in a LMS Defense carbine course back in September. Another student who shot next to me used one of my carbines that had a FSC556 on it. Pics can be seen here:
http://03designgroup.com/photo/lms-defense-carbine-2009/icon-lms-defense-carbine.jpg
03designgroup | LMS Defense Carbine 1 After Action Report http://demigodllc.com/icon/extwh3.png (http://www.03designgroup.com/aars/lms-defense-carbine-2009)
I've been planning on doing a review of the SM556, but have been burried with other projects for the last few months. Hopefully I can get a review of the SM556 up in the next couple weeks. The SM556 with crush washer is 1/10" too short to bring the overall length of a 14.5" barrel up to 16".
Have you considered a AK style muzzle brake? I like the one on my "post ban" Bushy.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3266/3139562929_abd646c01d.jpg
Not mine just a google pic.
Have you considered a AK style muzzle brake? I like the one on my "post ban" Bushy.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3266/3139562929_abd646c01d.jpg
Not mine just a google pic.
That is pretty much a fantastic example of why I'm concerned about the blast even at the shooter. I cannot stand those things because they aren't just obnoxious for the people to the left and right, but jar the shooter too!
My old Bushmaster originally came with the mini Y comp. It worked very good at controlling muzzle rise and made the 14.5" barrel legal too. The noise wasn't all that apparent to me as the shooter, don't know how it was to the sides. It also seemed to cut down on felt recoil compared to my FH equipped AR.
My old Bushmaster originally came with the mini Y comp. It worked very good at controlling muzzle rise and made the 14.5" barrel legal too. The noise wasn't all that apparent to me as the shooter, don't know how it was to the sides. It also seemed to cut down on felt recoil compared to my FH equipped AR.
The y comp's are so annoying (to other shooters) that they should be made illegal!
C4
How about the Addax FSC Bulldog? THeir version of the FSC 556 with shorter flash hider tines?
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk62/pacrimguru/AR-15%20ADDAX/IMG_0106.jpg
The y comp's are so annoying (to other shooters) that they should be made illegal!
Yea, the Y Comps are absolutely brutal. I got my first AR during the ban years and it had a perm attached Mini-Y. I thought it was bad even when I was the one shooting it.
I actually have pictures somewhere on my computer from a shooting session with friends years back. There's a burst of photos where my buddy's white-boy-fro is actually being visibly blown back by the concussion wave off the Mini-Y Comp.
How about the Addax FSC Bulldog? THeir version of the FSC 556 with shorter flash hider tines?
most likely not long enough, the FSC556 barely makes it.
How about the Addax FSC Bulldog? THeir version of the FSC 556 with shorter flash hider tines?
doesnt seem to be available anymore.. not listed on adx's site.
doesnt seem to be available anymore.. not listed on adx's site.
aw man, it was on my list to try out..
Quote:
Originally Posted by glen View Post
How about the Addax FSC Bulldog? THeir version of the FSC 556 with shorter flash hider tines?
most likely not long enough, the FSC556 barely makes it.
I see...I hadn't thought of that.
most likely not long enough, the FSC556 barely makes it.
The FSC Bulldog measures out at approx. 2" so on a 14.5" barrel, the FSC Bulldog Permanently attached to a 14.5" barrel using a crush washer measures out just over 16"
The FSC Bulldog is just a hair shorter than the standard PWS FSC 556 which is approx. 2.10.
aw man, it was on my list to try out..
I see...I hadn't thought of that.
We recently re-listed the FSC Bulldogs but we ran out of them fast.
wild_wild_wes
03-07-10, 15:44
The Mini-Y comp was designed by Satan himself.
It is long enough. The FSC Bulldog measures out at approx. 1.95" so on a 14.5" barrel, the FSC Permanently attached measures out at approx. 16.45"
If your product is 1.95" long, how do you figure it makes a 14.5" barrel into a 16.45"? That math ain't adding up given that the muzzle device threads back over the barrel threads. It's not just A+B=C, It's A+B-(thread depth)=C.
It is long enough. The FSC Bulldog measures out at approx. 1.95" so on a 14.5" barrel, the FSC Permanently attached measures out at approx. 16.45"
What kind of math is this? Did you take into account the threading??
I didn't expect that misinformation from an arms company. Unless I'm totally wrong.
Robb Jensen
03-07-10, 19:37
What kind of math is this? Did you take into account the threading??
I didn't expect that misinformation from an arms company. Unless I'm totally wrong.
FWIW the FSC Bulldog and the PWS FSC556 are the same length, either of them attached to a 14.5" barrel brings it out to 16".
vicious_cb
03-07-10, 21:40
The KAC TTB would be the perfect option if it didnt cost so much. Considering the brake costs more than the barrel its probably not wise to have it perm attached.
Would a Levang Linear Compensator (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=5594/Product/Levang_Linear_Compensator) work?
I haven't seen one but they apparently direct blast forward so side blast would be elminated.
A detractor, no wrench flats - use a strap wrench for install.
What kind of math is this? Did you take into account the threading??
I didn't expect that misinformation from an arms company. Unless I'm totally wrong.
Fixed it.
It was a typo, my mistake, not misinformation...
If your product is 1.95" long, how do you figure it makes a 14.5" barrel into a 16.45"? That math ain't adding up given that the muzzle device threads back over the barrel threads. It's not just A+B=C, It's A+B-(thread depth)=C.
The post has been updated/edited to reflect the correct length. http://m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=593312&postcount=40
The FSC Bulldog measures out at approx. 2" so on a 14.5" barrel, the FSC Bulldog Permanently attached to a 14.5" barrel using a crush washer measures out just over 16"
The FSC Bulldog is just a hair shorter than the standard PWS FSC 556 which is approx. 2.10.
I have been in the middle of moving the entire workshop to a new location all weekend, all the while getting some new construction done at the new location, so my brain is mush this weekend, and I was not thinking out the measurment/lengths correctly when I typed them out in my original post.
Apologies for the for my mistake/typo.
Chris
^:rolleyes:
____________________________________________________
FSC556 on my 14.5 (Perm. Attached) measures exactly 16.10"
This is the best muzzle device that I have ever used.
Large decline in muzzle rise.
Much smaller muzzle flash than the Izzy that I was using previously. There is a dull orange cone that is transparent, while shoorting XM193 in lowlight conditions.
I would reccomend the PWS FSC556 to anyone. :D
Polymerhead
03-09-10, 07:10
Would a Levang Linear Compensator (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=5594/Product/Levang_Linear_Compensator) work?
I haven't seen one but they apparently direct blast forward so side blast would be elminated.
A detractor, no wrench flats - use a strap wrench for install.
That was my recommendation too. If you haven't tried the Levang, it is awesome. It does cut some of the flip (though not as much as a true brake), but it takes all the blast and sends it downrange. Perfect for blast-sensitive types, or for anyone who doesn't consider flash suppression a primary concern.
They have a rep for being big and bulky, but they're not bad at all. I think the rep comes from being thrown in the same class as the flaming pigs/KFHs.
On my carbine (top photo - ignore the SBR):
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/Polymerhead/ARs.jpg
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