View Full Version : Retro XM & M16 builds
Gator Monroe
10-19-09, 13:14
Has the Retro AR/M16 build craze caused you to think about an XM177E2 or M16 type build for a change of pace ? I'm the oppisit, built my M16A1 (603) and now want an Uber current M4gery and am sure that will be a much easier task.
retro craze? i'm totally unaware... i'm basically the only guy i know who's remotely interested in a retro build, and i get made fun of just about every time i talk about it..
you've come to the right place for info/conversation about building a modern M4, though. welcome to the board.
BCM is supposed to come out with a pencil barrel. I'd want to make a super light A2 build.
I built an Israeli style CAR15 for fun... M4 type barrel, A1 upper and 4 position old style telestock, A1 pistol grip.
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k116/gulfcavvet/RKPark.jpg
I'm not into retro builds very much. Personally I think modern outfitted CAR-15's are much more practical for any kind of serious use. However, I do think the idea of a super-light carbine is very cool.
you can certainly do both.. a pencil barrel with some plastic handguards, improvised mount for an X300 and an aimpoint T-1 is just about as light as you're gonna get, and still a useful weapon
Love the current stuff but a 1 in12 or a 1 in14 inch twist with a 20 inch barrel is a STONE COLD KILLER that will take limbs off ! Read the 1st" black rifle" book and project "Agile" Retro's are more simple and easier to handle due to lack of weight and sights stay put . I would take a pre A1 with a 20 inch barrel over anything else if I had a choice before combat .
colt191145lover
10-19-09, 19:53
great joke or "Gunkid" is back:eek:
Gator Monroe
10-19-09, 21:47
Have an old school cantilever optics mount (Bringback from Iraq) for A1 & other A2/M4 carry handle M16 rifles agree that a XM16E1 or M16A1 type rifle is light, sleek & very deadly with optics.
Gator Monroe
10-19-09, 21:54
great joke or "Gunkid" is back:eek:
Gator Monroe the Bane of survivors & calguns and dozens of political forum/boards is thought to be another poster ? :confused:
Its something that has crossed my mind. Id really like an XM177 clone, but I really dont want to drop the 200 for the tax stamp for an SBR, yet. When I end up with an AR Ill most likely put a fixed stock on it as opposed the the adjustable one, it will give it a bit of an old school feel.
I like retros, but I try to keep them as just a fun gun. I do like the light weight and balance of my A1 clone and it is a joy to shoot. That being said if there is any serious work to be done, I'll grab one of my more modern AR rifles. Ever try to use A1 sights in the dark?
I like the idea of a retro AR with modern stuff on it. Such as retro stock,maybe retro handguard, but flattop receiver with modern sights/optic.
I really like this pic for some reason:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t58/loki993/xm1772.jpg
again its really short and I don't want to deal with the NFA stuff at the moment, but it could be easily adaptable to a 16 inch platform.
I would agree with Jerod on the handling of the A1. I love it. It just feels comfortable and more natural for some reason.
Here's a photo of the real deal. Property marked and all. (with A2 HGs, stock and grip)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2598/3696853853_15c00a8162_o.jpg
Georgie Boy
10-19-09, 23:48
i get made fun of just about every time i talk about it..
Anyone makes fun of you, you have our permission to go sgt barnes all over em... and I'll help out with my recently acquired SP1 :cool:
Built an XM16E1 clone for my old ladies pop (he carried one in Vietnam back in 68')
Not very practical with the 1/12 barrel but it sure is fun to shoot.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/DavePAL84/projects/XMa1.jpg
I'm thinking about building another just for myself.
I have 3 ARs, and 2 of them are old school/retro - a 629 clone and a 723 clone.
Over at TOS there's a whole section (IMO, the best part of that site) dedicated to retro stuff.
With the current emphasis on rails, there's some that consider the plain M16A2 configuration as "retro". I guess you could make the case, but the A1 seems more in the retro vein than the A2.
With the current emphasis on rails, there's some that consider the plain M16A2 configuration as "retro".
My unit refers to M16A2's as 'muskets', if that means anything to you :D
colt191145lover
10-20-09, 10:37
whos selling m16 a1 uppers now? i remember the ones CDNN had a few years but I dont see very many anymore
colt191145lover
10-20-09, 10:44
Love the current stuff but a 1 in12 or a 1 in14 inch twist with a 20 inch barrel is a STONE COLD KILLER that will take limbs off ! Read the 1st" black rifle" book and project "Agile" Retro's are more simple and easier to handle due to lack of weight and sights stay put . I would take a pre A1 with a 20 inch barrel over anything else if I had a choice before combat .
this is where the "gunkid" coment was aimed;)
And let's keep the comments respectful.
Jerod came over from TheAKForum.net, and has some pretty respectable toys.
I've stood next to Vickers when he made the statement that the M16A1 was a better rifle than the A2, but that being said, the modern M4 Carbine is head and shoulders above them both.
I'd personally love to have a XM177E2 clone, and a plane vanilla M16A1/SP-1 is certainly a very lightweight, portable infantry rifle, far better suited to the jungles of S.E. Asia than the M14.
State of the Art in 1964
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Colt%20Rifles/1964%20SP-1/P1000887.jpg
colt191145lover
10-20-09, 11:12
And let's keep the comments respectful.
Jerod came over from TheAKForum.net, and has some pretty respectable toys.
I've stood next to Vickers when he made the statement that the M16A1 was a better rifle than the A2, but that being said, the modern M4 Carbine is head and shoulders above them both.
I'd personally love to have a XM177E2 clone, and a plane vanilla M16A1/SP-1 is certainly a very lightweight, portable infantry rifle, far better suited to the jungles of S.E. Asia than the M14.
State of the Art in 1964
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Colt%20Rifles/1964%20SP-1/P1000887.jpg
forgive me, No harm intended
thats why i said "great joke" first ....it had me rolling:D
I always liked the triangle handguards better. I used the M16A1 when I was first in the Army back in 76 and then had an A2 in the later years. The only thing I liked about the A2 was the built in brass deflector since I'm a lefty. I also prefer the A1 stock over the longer A2 version. I used to have an old Colt SP1 Sporter CAR-15 that I installed a set-back CAR-15 clone flash hider on. The flash hider made the barrel look shorter and took away that pencil look as well as adding a little weight to the muzzle end. With no magazine fence around the mag release button I can't count on 2 hands how many times my mag fell out when it hit my belt buckle. The lack of the forward assist was never a biggie but that magazine fence sure was.
Has the Retro AR/M16 build craze caused you to think about an XM177E2 or M16 type build for a change of pace ? I'm the oppisit, built my M16A1 (603) and now want an Uber current M4gery and am sure that will be a much easier task.
The "retro craze" was in full bloom a few years ago, but I think its tapered off. That being said, the basic carbines and rifles are still highly effective, and I think lots of us own and appreciate them.
Here are a few of my retro/ old school carbines.
This first one ran me all of $160 during the AWB.
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Old%20School/IMG_7347%20Stick%20a.jpg
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Old%20School/P1280015-800-STICK.jpg
........the basic carbines and rifles are still highly effective, and I think lots of us own and appreciate them.
Yes Sir...I agree.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/520.jpg
I've stood next to Vickers when he made the statement that the M16A1 was a better rifle than the A2, but that being said, the modern M4 Carbine is head and shoulders above them both.
I'd personally love to have a XM177E2 clone, and a plane vanilla M16A1/SP-1 is certainly a very lightweight, portable infantry rifle, far better suited to the jungles of S.E. Asia than the M14.
In a thread not to long ago, a link was posted to a document produced by the US Army, inumerating all the reasons why it did not want teh M16a2, but rather a PIP M16a1.
Good read, interestingly, they got alot of what they wanted with teh M4 and M4a1.
The "retro" guns look cool, lets just stay away from the "kiss" thing.:D
BTW, what does a Colt rubber covered aluminum collapsible butt stock go for these day?
Bob
motorolahamm
10-20-09, 18:02
Hey i love the retro style and would love to build one ,.....its the craze that started it all in my opinion. i have found plenty of a1 uppers but cant find a lower to match . all the new ones are all the dark coated
<snip> i have found plenty of a1 uppers but cant find a lower to match . all the new ones are all the dark coated
Nothing a can of Krylon can't solve :D
motorolahamm
10-20-09, 18:13
Nothing a can of Krylon can't solve :D
yeah but looking for that old gun metal grey look
QuietShootr
10-20-09, 18:20
Lauer makes a Colt Grey finish that I'm going to refinish my M16A1 build in when I get around to it.
I love my A1. It can't do what my suppressed 10.3" will do, but it scratches an itch, for some reason. Maybe it's because that's what I got at Benning School for Boys back in '88 (they only gave us A2s for BRM). Don't know...but that A1 just feels right to me. I very much prefer the feel of the triangular guard to a round one.
Damn Gator, had to come over and pollute another forum with your retro obsession I see;)
So did you get your self banned for good or?
Here is as retro as I ever got...
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll42/technique408/Picture126.jpg
ANyone in the forums with an Elisco Tool A1 or CAR? Ive been looking all over for one of these, atleast one with a good condition lower. No luck what so ever, despite living in the country where it's from... :)
Here’s my Son’s carbine I built him for his 13th b-day about 4-5 years ago. Finished with KG Gunkote and baked on the BBQ in a homemade oven. ;)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/Kscarbine.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/KGCoat1sm.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/KGCoat132Sm.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/KGCoat2sm.jpg
I assume gunkid is/was a troll or something ? No troll here , just some strong opinions sometimes . Sorry if I came off the wrong way . I am not that old but did use a A1 for BRM at Fort Lost in the Woods and did well with it. I am a little biased because I have studied / collected / shot the Ar/m series for at least 20 years before they were sold by Ruger and Remington or painted pink with 20 lbs of gizmoes hanging off the rifle. Maybe I am getting old ?
UrbanRunner
10-20-09, 22:01
What version of flash suppressor was stock on the early M16A1's? The ones we had in boot camp all had three prong flash suppressors but some of the literature I'm reading says that one of the improvements in the A1 versions was a change to the bird cage version. I'm guessing that change was for later versions of the A1.
I have 3 ARs, and 2 of them are old school/retro - a 629 clone and a 723 clone.
Over at TOS there's a whole section (IMO, the best part of that site) dedicated to retro stuff.
Please pardon my ignorance, but what's "TOS"? I assume it's a site, but could you provide the URL? I kinda like AR retros too...
Thanks!
If I recall some of the points in that Army-commissioned study, they felt that the A1 was more accurate than the A2 out to 500 meters, the A2's sight was unnecessarily complex and fragile, and they didn't like the 1:7 twist (preferring a 1:9 twist instead). Also that the A2 was potentially more maintenance-intensive than the A1, and less reliable overall. I got the impression that they really wanted nothing to do with the A2 :D
UrbanRunner
10-20-09, 22:59
If I recall some of the points in that Army-commissioned study, they felt that the A1 was more accurate than the A2 out to 500 meters, the A2's sight was unnecessarily complex and fragile, and they didn't like the 1:7 twist (preferring a 1:9 twist instead). Also that the A2 was potentially more maintenance-intensive than the A1, and less reliable overall. I got the impression that they really wanted nothing to do with the A2 :D
My experience was quite different. Although the A1's that I was shooting were quite old and shot out. When I finally got an A2 I used to say that you could lay it out on the rifle range and it would shoot expert all by itself. The M16A2 was a great shooting weapon. We were all very impressed with its capabilities back in 1985.
Please pardon my ignorance, but what's "TOS"? I assume it's a site, but could you provide the URL? I kinda like AR retros too...
Thanks!
Do a google search for "retro AR15", you'll find it.
Those interested in newly manufactured A1 lowers and uppers can find them and a variety of other good stuff at www.nodakspud.com.
What version of flash suppressor was stock on the early M16A1's? The ones we had in boot camp all had three prong flash suppressors but some of the literature I'm reading says that one of the improvements in the A1 versions was a change to the bird cage version. I'm guessing that change was for later versions of the A1.
That is correct. A great resource is www.retroblackrifle.com.
If I recall some of the points in that Army-commissioned study, they felt that the A1 was more accurate than the A2 out to 500 meters, the A2's sight was unnecessarily complex and fragile, and they didn't like the 1:7 twist (preferring a 1:9 twist instead). Also that the A2 was potentially more maintenance-intensive than the A1, and less reliable overall. I got the impression that they really wanted nothing to do with the A2 :D
On the surface that seems like BS, but if you read the document, its not totally unfounded.
You'll also understand their reasoning better.
Bob
My experience was quite different. Although the A1's that I was shooting were quite old and shot out. When I finally got an A2 I used to say that you could lay it out on the rifle range and it would shoot expert all by itself. The M16A2 was a great shooting weapon. We were all very impressed with its capabilities back in 1985.
read the document,
I'll see if I can find it.
Bob
What version of flash suppressor was stock on the early M16A1's? The ones we had in boot camp all had three prong flash suppressors but some of the literature I'm reading says that one of the improvements in the A1 versions was a change to the bird cage version. I'm guessing that change was for later versions of the A1.
Depends which you are going for:
The early XM16E1s had a solid buttstock, chrome BCG, and 3 prong flash suppressor. If they were rebuilt they would probably put an A1 flash suppressor on it.
The late XM16E1s had a solid buttstock, parked BCG, and A1 flash suppressors.
The early Colt M16A1s had a solid buttstock, parked BCG, and A1 flash suppressor.
The late Colt M16A1s had a trap door buttstock, parked BCG, and A1 flash suppressor.
All H-R and GM M16A1s had solid buttstocks.
there are other minor differences depending on year
Dustin
I believe this is the report:
http://stinet.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA168577&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf
UrbanRunner
10-21-09, 20:50
I believe this is the report:
http://stinet.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA168577&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf
I guess I should have made it clear, I'm a former Marine. The M16A2 was a great rifle for us and a big improvement over the M16A1. Actual experience shooting the weapon is what leads me to this conclusion. Some of this report was based on testing while I was still shooting the M16A1. Maybe there were changes made between the M16A1E1 and the final issue M16A2 that made it such a great weapon in our experience.
Did the Army ever issue the M16A2?
I will admit that I could not shoot the M16A2 like I did back in my Marine Corps days. These old eyes need modern optics over the Old Corps iron sights... :(
Yes, the Army certainly issued the A2, and there are units that still have them.
I don't think this thread was started to debate the merits of one system over another, it was started (I believe) to discuss clones of said older systems.
UrbanRunner
10-21-09, 21:00
Depends which you are going for:
The early XM16E1s had a solid buttstock, chrome BCG, and 3 prong flash suppressor. If they were rebuilt they would probably put an A1 flash suppressor on it.
The late XM16E1s had a solid buttstock, parked BCG, and A1 flash suppressors.
The early Colt M16A1s had a solid buttstock, parked BCG, and A1 flash suppressor.
The late Colt M16A1s had a trap door buttstock, parked BCG, and A1 flash suppressor.
All H-R and GM M16A1s had solid buttstocks.
there are other minor differences depending on year
Dustin
I'm still not clear, we were issued M16A1's but they had the improved 3 prong flash suppressors (hiders if you prefer) that seem to be listed for the M16E1. Maybe these were a mish mash of parts put together by MC armorers????
UrbanRunner
10-21-09, 21:03
Yes, the Army certainly issued the A2, and there are units that still have them.
I don't think this thread was started to debate the merits of one system over another, it was started (I believe) to discuss clones of said older systems.
Sorry, if I drifted off topic. Actually, I just intended to figure out what type of rifle I carried in my early USMC days and how it compared to these retro builds.
No worries.
I'm sure the Marines never really threw anything out.....and might very well have put the older 3 prong flash suppressors onto A1's.
True, the document in question isn't really relevent to this thread. But if you have some time to kill it's interesting reading about the Army's thoughts on the M16A2 in the early 1980's.
Gator Monroe
10-22-09, 00:13
Do a google search for "retro AR15", you'll find it.
Those interested in newly manufactured A1 lowers and uppers can find them and a variety of other good stuff at www.nodakspud.com.
Did the search and could not find it ( How bout a linky):D
Did the search and could not find it ( How bout a linky):D
Here you go (http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=3&f=123).
Cowtown556
10-22-09, 05:42
http://www.nodakspud.com/AR%20Lowers.htm
I'm still not clear, we were issued M16A1's but they had the improved 3 prong flash suppressors (hiders if you prefer) that seem to be listed for the M16E1. Maybe these were a mish mash of parts put together by MC armorers????
Or they were XM16E1s... or they were XM16E1 uppers on M16A1 lowers... or ?. M16A1s didn't come from the factory that way.
Dustin
UrbanRunner
10-22-09, 10:33
Another walk down memory lane... Here's my original issue operators manuals. One from boot camp the other from OCS.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c395/UrbanRunner/Firearms/OperatorManuals.jpg
My issued M16A1, Germany 1985.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/Quib3.jpg
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Old%20School/IMG_6963%201.jpg
parishioner
10-22-09, 21:50
My issued M16A1, Germany 1985.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/Quib3.jpg
I didn't know they had Triple Tap breaks back then! :D
I didn't know they had Triple Tap breaks back then! :D
Don't know what makes you say that. It's nothing more than the std A1 FH.
parishioner
10-22-09, 22:24
Don't know what makes you say that. It's nothing more than the std A1 FH.
Sorry. It silvery looking and slightly resembles a Triple Tap. Bad joke I guess.
Sorry. It silvery looking and slightly resembles a Triple Tap. Bad joke I guess.
LOL..It’s an old grainy 110 Kodak picture. Not easy to scan and get good clarity.
Hard to believe there was once a time when digital cameras did not exist, and film was actually turned in for development and one waited a week or two until the pictures were done. ;)
MPi-KMS-72
10-23-09, 09:46
That being said, the basic carbines and rifles are still highly effective, and I think lots of us own and appreciate them.]
I think sometimes people lose track of that fact, the older guns are just as effective today as when they were cutting edge weapons. That is not to say that there haven't been advances and improvements with modern designs, but those advances do not detract from the original qualities of older designs. An M1 does the same job now that it did in its prime as a small arms design-the same is true of other historical weapons.
[edit]
here are some 601 pics from a display at the NY State Fair:
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l119/sepp45/09%20state%20fair/StateFair89-5-09010.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l119/sepp45/09%20state%20fair/StateFair89-5-09015.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l119/sepp45/09%20state%20fair/StateFair89-5-09018.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l119/sepp45/09%20state%20fair/StateFair89-5-09017.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l119/sepp45/09%20state%20fair/StateFair89-5-09011.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l119/sepp45/09%20state%20fair/StateFair89-5-09013.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l119/sepp45/09%20state%20fair/StateFair89-5-09014.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l119/sepp45/09%20state%20fair/StateFair89-5-09016.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l119/sepp45/09%20state%20fair/StateFair89-5-09009.jpg
A couple of Basic Training photos with the M16A1.......
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/Basic2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/BT1.jpg
Quib ,
Great Pics ! Love the pre - A2 rifles ! Except for the lack of a kevlar , your boot camp pics remind me of mine ! A1's rule !
PS ...look at the numbers on the buttstock of your rifle....scary and sad of what was coming down the road after those pics were taken as we were sleeping at the wheel again .
Quib ,
PS ...look at the numbers on the buttstock of your rifle....scary and sad of what was coming down the road after those pics were taken as we were sleeping at the wheel again .
LOL.....almost every time I post that pic, someone mentions the Rack Number.
Hopefully "Coldblue" can be convinced to chime in on the development of the M16A1 PIP. It was his baby after all. Dan Shea interviewed him for the March 1996 edition of "Machine Gun News". (MGN was the forerunner of the current "Small Arms Review".)
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Old%20School/IMG_0700%20Stick.jpg
UrbanRunner
10-27-09, 23:18
A close look at my Boot Camp graduation photo shows three prong flash hiders on some of our "M16A1s".
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c395/UrbanRunner/Firearms/BootCamp.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c395/UrbanRunner/Firearms/BootCamp-Rifles.jpg
A close look at my Boot Camp graduation photo shows three prong flash hiders on our "M16A1s".
Nice pic “Devil Dog“! Thanks for sharing! :)
There were a few M16’s with bird cage FH’s in my basic training company, not many though. A HS buddy of mine who went through basic with me, was issued one.
TheGhostRider
10-28-09, 20:54
My current dream gun:
A1 upper with a 14.5" 1/7 pencil barrel....
:)
Gator Monroe
10-28-09, 22:25
Now that my (603) build is done I'm thinkin bout a LRB M14 semi-auto Reciever USGI M14A1 build !:eek:
My current dream gun:
A1 upper with a 14.5" 1/7 pencil barrel....
:)
I built a 723 Clone a year or so ago. Handy little rifle. It's got a CMMG 14.7" bbl with a pinned birdcage to make it legit. Here are two views - plain and tactilicious... :cool:
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/747/723001.th.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/i/723001.jpg/)
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1456/723withaimpoint1000n.th.jpg (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/723withaimpoint1000n.jpg/)
retro craze? i'm totally unaware... i'm basically the only guy i know who's remotely interested in a retro build, and i get made fun of just about every time i talk about it..
im interested, in retro builds.
everyone looks at me like im nuts too.
'Lo, all. Boy, you guys are taking me back. Army Basic at Ft. Jackson, SC. I carried an M16A1 Colt. Several of the other recruits were carrying GM Hydramatics and I saw at least 1 or 2 H&R(Harrington & Richardson) made 16's. We shot M193 ball (55gr) and had good accuracy with the 1/12" barrels. When I got home, I found me a blank receiver(SGW, that's all you could find then!) and proceeded to build me a A1 clone. Then you could find Colt like new surplus parts and that's what I used. I have carried and shot that A1 for years. It always worked. I still have it and it is my GO TO gun for SHTF. Light, easy to use, accurate, packs a fairly good "punch', always works. Yeah, the sights are tuff in the dark, I put in a dayglow front post and that helped a bunch. I love my A1 clone to this day.
When I find my yearbook, I'll post my pics. That was a pretty good time for me then. I remember it fondly.
Ofc.JL:p
State of the Art in 1964
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Colt%20Rifles/1964%20SP-1/P1000887.jpg[/QUOTE]
i just love these retro threads..
1964 state of the art. :)
peabody
you can certainly do both.. a pencil barrel with some plastic handguards, improvised mount for an X300 and an aimpoint T-1 is just about as light as you're gonna get, and still a useful weapon
This should do:
http://www.botachtactical.com/kzm4balugmo.html
whos selling m16 a1 uppers now? i remember the ones CDNN had a few years but I dont see very many anymore
Three left here: http://www.gunnyssurplus.com/m16a1-up.html
You can also find new A1 uppers and lowers at www.nodakspud.com.
Three left here: http://www.gunnyssurplus.com/m16a1-up.html
I would love to buy one of those, but just can't justify it for something that would just be a plinker.
I would love to buy one of those, but just can't justify it for something that would just be a plinker.
The funny thing is, gunnyssurplus had them for $350 back in Jan. during the panic and it's only now that they cost more.
LonghunterCO
11-05-09, 11:18
You can also find new A1 uppers and lowers at www.nodakspud.com.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/Longhunter-CO/P2030029.jpg
Nodak upper and A1 lower for 653 SBR build. 12" 1/7 Colt barrel. Grants LPK. EA AL repro stock.
Where did you get the aluminum repro stock?
MPi-KMS-72
11-05-09, 14:17
Where did you get the aluminum repro stock?
http://www.essentialarms.com/STOCKS.html
I think there is an original colt one off a SP1 Carbine on Gunbroker right now too FWIW.
halfmoonclip
12-28-09, 20:27
I had an M-16-dash-nothing in basic at Ord in '70; three prong, no FA, tho' most of the company had A1s IIRC.
NoDakSpud has been mentioned several times by JTB; check their site if you want a retro. The supply of NOS or minty uppers seems to be getting pretty sparse, so building one might be the deal. A1 furniture is pretty common except for the trapdoor stocks of the later A1s. Since they weren't on the guns long, the solid stocks are out there in abundance, but the traps were on until the rifles were retired.
I have a NoDak A1 lower on a Colt NOS upper; makes a dandy rifle, and I can shoot 20" irons better than 16".
ArfCom has an active Retro forum.
Moon
ETA-
Musket! Hmpf! ;) Next somebody will claim an A1 won't go off in the rain...
M
Cammobunker
12-28-09, 21:20
No worries.
I'm sure the Marines never really threw anything out.....and might very well have put the older 3 prong flash suppressors onto A1's.
I dunno about that, but in 1985 I was issued a brand new, from the paper and sealed crate M16A1 made by the Hydra-Matic Division of the GM corp. I had to clean the heavy preservative oil out of it to take it to the range. It was brand spanking new. I'm pretty sure they quit making rifles there in the late 60's.
I left the regular USMC in 1986 never having seen an A2, or a camo field jacket or poncho, for that matter. Once I got to the reserves I did get to see a M92 service pistol though. We got to clean them after our squadron officers fired them. :(
Heavy Metal
12-28-09, 21:36
'Lo, all. Boy, you guys are taking me back. Army Basic at Ft. Jackson, SC. I carried an M16A1 Colt. Several of the other recruits were carrying GM Hydramatics and I saw at least 1 or 2 H&R(Harrington & Richardson) made 16's. We shot M193 ball (55gr) and had good accuracy with the 1/12" barrels. When I got home, I found me a blank receiver(SGW, that's all you could find then!) and proceeded to build me a A1 clone. Then you could find Colt like new surplus parts and that's what I used. I have carried and shot that A1 for years. It always worked. I still have it and it is my GO TO gun for SHTF. Light, easy to use, accurate, packs a fairly good "punch', always works. Yeah, the sights are tuff in the dark, I put in a dayglow front post and that helped a bunch. I love my A1 clone to this day.
When I find my yearbook, I'll post my pics. That was a pretty good time for me then. I remember it fondly.
Ofc.JL:p
They still had A1's the summer of 90 at Jackson. I shot Expert with one. Got a 4 hr pass for that and spend 2hr of it pigging-out at Burger King.
I over-ate so bad I almost puked:D
I know that as late as 1998/1999 the guys at NAB Coronado in ACU-1 still had A1's on the boats. At least the LCU crews.
Of course there were also old M69 vests new in wraps still sitting around too.
halfmoonclip
12-29-09, 11:59
I dunno about that, but in 1985 I was issued a brand new, from the paper and sealed crate M16A1 made by the Hydra-Matic Division of the GM corp. I had to clean the heavy preservative oil out of it to take it to the range. It was brand spanking new. I'm pretty sure they quit making rifles there in the late 60's.
(
Cammo, are you a lefty, or did they issue Hydramatics to the whole company? I ask because a lefty in my basic company was given a Hydra b/c, supposedly, they threw the brass more to the front than the Colts. Never seen a confirmation of this; may just be some smoke they blew when the guy complained about hot brass down his shirt.
Was your Hydra an odd, greenish color?
Moon
I recently reworked one of my carbines to be more retro just for S&G - I still need to find an A1 FH:
http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac123/HDF62/BM-CAR-2.jpg
Gator Monroe
02-22-10, 23:23
Dros-ing First NDS A1 lower (black) for my 603 build and current CMMG lower on 603 will go on my Del-Ton 20" CL A2 kit with green A2 furniture WHEN IT ARRIVES ... so I will have a USGI configured A1 (603) & an A2 TYPE rifle also.
RiflemanBobcat
02-23-10, 02:52
I have a NoDak A1 lower that I'd like to turn into a 723 clone...which the new Daniel Defense pencil barrels will allow, it seems. I'll have a couple concessions to modernity on it, like a tritium front sight and a light somehow.
Of course, I'd like to also get a DD .625 barreled carbine upper for use as a duty carbine.
Ah heck, I'll just start with the modern upper and get the retro-style later when I have some extra spending money.:p
Hmm.
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