My lightweight gun, a question & a request...

[TED]

I built a lightweight KISS carbine...

Cavalry Arms lower (I love these, always have ever since I did some early cold weather testing for them)
DPMS small pin slick side upper (available exclusively through Fulton Armory)
Bushmaster super light 1.9 barrel
Steel DPMS charging handle (why steel on a lightweight gun, because I bent an aluminum one once)

Everything else is pretty standard.

I'm very intersted in lightweight builds and very in terested in KISS carbines. The two often got together.

I wonder if we might make a sticky addressing at least the lightweight builds, resources, part weights, etc. since it seems to come up over and over.

For example, anyone have any idea what a flat top without forward assist or brass deflector (say for example a 9mm upper) weighs vs. an A1 slick side upper like mine? Also, IIRC there are some rails that weigh less than a standard carbine factory handguard because they replace the barrel nut (which is steel) with parts that are aluminum?

I'd really like an ultra light free floating forearm and I do not need tons of rail space, just enough for a flash light and maybe a vertical foregrip.

TED

[TED]

Having problems with the picture thing.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll141/tsh77769/IMG_0004-2.jpg

[rob_s]

There used to be a Maryland AR owners group on MSN that had a large spreadsheet of weights of various items. I found a few errors on it from time to time, but I always attributed it to later generations of products.

Somewhere or other I have that spreadsheet saved.

[LonghunterCO]

THis is funny Ted...
http://www.hunt101.com/data/548/thumbs/33222P1010001.JPG

[MMcfpd]

9mm slickside used for a DI AR:
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s95/MMcfpd/9mm_upper_w_port_door-1.jpg

I wish I'd seen your post a couple of days ago as I just put together a slickside A1 like yours and could have weighed it stripped.

[G19A3]

Here are some weights I have measured/calipered myself and some others I have gathered from various websites. The ones I measured myself should be accurate as I rechecked several times. The others (notation next to measurement) I cannot attest to their accuracy but I assume the weighers were doing it for anal reasons as well. Hopefully not too many of "the others" are from manufacturer's websites as they are usually inaccurate. The difference between a M16 (small hole) slick side and an RRA 9mm upper, both totally stripped is 1.5 oz. But remember the RRA 9mm DOES NOT have the gas tube hole drilled into them (at least not on mine), but do have cam pin and auto sear clearance cuts. Hope these help.

Upper receiver - 614 (M16 non-A1) upper totally stripped 7.4 oz
LBC (Les Baer) upper totally stripped 6.8 oz
RRA 9mm upper totally stripped 5.9 oz

Colt A3 upper height (back/front) 1. 1.842 / 1.84
2. 1.845 / 1.842
LBC upper height (back/front) 1. 1.8595 / 1.859
2. 1.86 / 1.8585
RRA upper height (back/front) 1. 1.84 / 1.838
2. 1.844 / 1.844
3. 1.844 / 1.84

Flash suppressor - A1 flash suppressor 1.9 oz
A2 flash suppressor 2.1 oz
Phantom flash suppressor 2.1 oz
Phantom 2 flash suppressor 2.0 oz
Vortex flash suppressor 2.5 oz

Handguard - CAR lower handguard/Rail/Grip/M3 9.7 oz
CAR lower handguard only - 2.4 oz
CAR lower handguard only PINK - 1.7 oz
CAR lower handguard only PINK - 1.3 oz (NO aluminum shield)
CAR handguard (both halves) - 4.8 oz
CAR handguard (both halves) PINK - 3.4 oz
CAR handguard (both halves) PINK - 2.6 oz (NO aluminum shield)
FGR-3 lower handguard only 3.1 oz
FGR-3 w/ CAR upper half - 5.5 oz
(PINK - Calvary Arms pink CAR-type handguards were a much thinner and lighter plastic)

Handguard rail - A.A.C. handguard rail (8 slots) 1.3 oz w/ hardware 1.8 oz
GGG handguard rail (11 slots) 1.1 oz w/ hardware 1.5 oz
GGG handguard rail (shortened 5 slots) 0.6 oz w/ hardware 0.8 oz
TDI handguard rail (PR-A) (13 slots) 0.8 oz w/ hardware 1.1 oz
TDI handguard rail (SR-B) (1 slot) 0.3 oz w/ hardware 0.5 oz

Handguard rail + VFG - lower standard CAR w/ GGG rail w/ KAC A4 6.2 oz
lower FGR-3 w/ KAC A4 w/ ladder rail cover 5.5 oz
lower FGR-3 w/ KAC A4E1 w/ ladder rail cover 5.3 oz
lower standard CAR w/ ErgoGrip (no end plug) 5.0 oz
aluminum liner (1 half) 0.4 oz
Blue Force Gear Universal Wire Loop (UWL) 0.4 oz

VFG grip - KAC 2.5 oz
ErgoGrip (no end plug) 2.7 oz

Rear sight - KMC 300M rear flip-up sight - 1.5 oz Height on A3 upper - 2.1545"/ W= 1.76"
GG&G rear flip-up sight - 1.9 oz Height on A3 upper - 2.47" / W= 1.21"
BMAS rear flip-up sight - 1.4 oz Height on A3 upper - 2.68" / W= 1.26"
ARMS rear flip-up sight - 1.9 oz Height on A3 upper - 2.7845"/ W= 1.10"

30rd GI mag loaded w/ TAP NATO – 17.7 oz
20rd GI mag loaded w/ TAP NATO – 12.0 oz
Surefire X300 w/ batt – 3.8 oz
Insight M3 w/ batt – 3.2 oz
LaRue LT-619 = 2.1oz (lindertw (m4Carbine.net))
LaRue LT-619 + X300 (w/batteries) = 5.7oz (lindertw (m4Carbine.net))
Blue Force Gear – wire sling loop – 0.4 oz

Aimpoint T1 mounts
Early OEM – 0.7 oz
Late OEM – 1.0 oz (w/ T1 – 4.1 oz)
Daniel Defense 1.7 oz. (48g) (as per company website)
LaRue LT661 – 1.8 oz (w/ T1 – 4.8 oz)
KZ Co-Witness – 2.3 oz (w/ T1 – 5.3 oz)
ADM CAS-V – 2.6 oz (w/ T1 – 5.6 oz)

PPGMD (sigforum.com)
Comp M4 w/o spacer: 12.5oz
Comp M4 with spacer: 13.3oz
H-1 with ADM Cowitness Mount: 6.9oz
Magpul MBUS Rear Sight 1.3oz
ARMS #40L-SP 1.7oz
Samson Fixed Front Sight 1.2oz
LMT Fixed Front Sight 2.1oz
Midwest Industries QD sling mount 0.5oz
Surefire M951 w/ Larue mount and SR-06 Switch: 9.2oz
YHM Angle Rail Mount: 1.8oz
Surefire G2L w/ VTAC offset mount and XM/SR-06 Tail Cap Switch: 6.9oz
KAC finger stop (w/o QD sling swivel inserted) - 1.4 oz
Larue FUG (w/ "stubby" endplate screwed in the bottom) - 4.6 oz

M4Carbine.net
Here are some 'installed' weights to compare by:
(weight in ounces)
Carbine, FF, Abrams CAS-V (no attached rails), aluminum 17.0
Carbine, FF, Abrams/VLTOR CASV-EL, aluminum 16.0
Carbine, FF, ARMS #45C SIR (Carbine/Civilian), aluminum body with plastic lower 18.7
Carbine, FF, ARMS #45M SIR (Carbine/Military), aluminum body with plastic lower 20.6
Carbine, FF, ARMS #50 M-CV (no rails attached) 13.4
Carbine, FF, ARMS #50 SIR (Carbine, Bi-Level, Slimline), aluminum body with plastic lower 16.1
Carbine, FF, BMAS/YHM Free Float Tube, aluminum 10.1
Carbine, FF, BMAS/YHM Solid 4 Rail Forearm, aluminum 14.3
Carbine, FF, Clark Custom (Rifle tube cut to carbine length), Carbon Fiber 4.0
Carbine, FF, C-More Quad Rail, aluminum 15.8
Carbine, FF, Daniels Defense M4Rail 7.0, aluminum 8.5
Carbine, FF, DPMS Carbon Fiber one piece 6.0
Carbine, FF, Hiperform Carbon Fiber Tube, Standard, Carbon Fiber 7.4
Carbine, FF, Hiperform Carbon Fiber Tube, Ultra-Light, Carbon Fiber 5.7
Carbine, FF, Houge, aluminum with rubber inserts 14.1
Carbine, FF, KAC RAS FF, aluminum 11.4
Carbine, FF, KAC RAS II FF, aluminum 11.2
Carbine, FF, KAC URX, aluminum 8.9
Carbine, FF, LaRue 7.0, aluminum 11.0
Carbine, FF, Leitner-Wise ARM-R 12.7
Carbine, FF, Midwest Industries #20, aluminum 15.4
Carbine, FF, Olympic Arms FIRSH, aluminum 10.5
Carbine, FF, Olympic Arms FIRSH, aluminum 12.5
Carbine, FF, Sampson MRFS-C, aluminum 12.5
Carbine, FF, Troy MRF-C, aluminum 13.0
Carbine, FF, YHM Customizeable Tube (Carbine, no rails), aluminum 9.5
Carbine, FF, YHM Lightweight 4 Rail (Spectre Length), aluminum 12.9
Carbine, FF, YHM Lightweight 4 Rail, aluminum 10.6
According to Rob_S, DD Lite rails weigh less then stock hand guards, and Omega rails only weigh an ounce or two more then Stock Colt hand guards.
Colt Hand guards: 9.3oz
DD Lite Rails: 8.5oz
DD Omega: 10.28oz
Magpul MOE (w/o rails): 9.2oz (Magpul lists the MOE at 6.2)

(weight of the rail system) then installed weight in ounces. Installed weight includes those parts which are required for installation and it allows a direct comparison to the Free-Float systems which do not use those parts.
Carbine, non-FF, KAC RAS M4, Railed (4)/2 Piece, aluminum (8.8) 11.3
Carbine, non-FF, KAC RIS, Railed (4)/2 Piece, aluminum (8.1) 10.6
Carbine, non-FF, M4 Type, double shielded, pair, plastic (6.4oz) 8.9
Carbine, non-FF, Midwest Industries Railed(4)/2 Piece, aluminum (11.9 oz) 14.4
Carbine, non-FF, Sampson MRFS-DI, Railed (4)/2 Piece, aluminum (9.1 oz) 11.6
Carbine, non-FF, Surefire M73, Railed (4)/2 Piece, aluminum (10 oz) 12.5
Carbine, non-FF, Yankee Hill Machine, Railed(4)/2 Piece, aluminum (9.5 oz) 12.0

Rails and sections were weighed on US Postal scales.
Weights Just ----------Rail---------Rail w/nut
VTAC-EXT-13---------11.1 oz.-------12.6 oz.
VTAC-EXT-11----------9.7 oz.-------11.2 oz.
VTAC-EXT-9----------- 8.2 oz. --------9.7 oz.
VTAC-EXT-7------------7.0 oz. --------8.5 oz.
2" rail = .8 oz. 4" rail = 1.6 oz. Nut = 1.5 oz.

gotm4 - (M4Carbine.net)
I weighed some stuff:
FSB = 4.9oz
my ultra low pro shaved FSB = 1.6 oz. (Badger Ordnance or CMMG?)
cut in 1/2 shaved FSB = 0.7oz
M16 carrier w/key = 9.7oz
JP LMOS carrier w/key = 6.7oz

I forget the actual weights but interesting enough the one A1 handguard ring was 1/2 the weight of an A2 delta ring.