View Full Version : Appendix carry
Hey guys, this is my first "real post" here. I am new to CCW and I have some questions about appendix carry.
1) Do any of you here carry in this method?
2) For those of you who don't why would you recommend against it?
3) I am looking into this holster and company: http://www.onesourcetactical.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=731
I saw it in a video in another publication. Has anyone had any experience with the company and that specific holster?
If you read all the above post, thanks and I am waiting on your replies.:)
Oh, and pics would be great!! LOL!!
In my opinion (which doesn't mean much), appendix carry is the best way to go if you can swing it. Probably the most important part of appendix carry or AIWB is your body build. Most people will agree that to AIWB carry comfortably, you can't carry around a spare tire. I don't have washboard abs and I still pull it off. As with any method of carry, you need to get used to it.
As for the holster choice from One Source Tactical, they are made by Dale Fricke (www.dalefrickeholsters.com). I believe he is the best when it comes down to AIWB. Give him a call when you get a chance. He can modify the holster and tweak it for you depending on your needs. He can also make it tuckable which might or might not work depending on your build. Most people will agree that the two best AIWB holsters are Dale Fricke and Raven Concealment ACR (www.themalabarfront.com). Both holsters will run at or around $100 each. Good luck with your choice and God Bless.
YammyMonkey
10-22-09, 00:10
1- Yes. I would agree that body shape & motivation to carry AIWB both play a role. There's nothing better for in fight weapon access & defendability in the FUT but they can take some playing around with to be comfortable & concealable. I'm 6'1" & 190lbs & can easily conceal a full size M&P w/light AIWB- because I want to.
2- N/A
3- No, not a fan of the under hooks. I have used the Raven Concealment Systems ACR & CCC Looper. I've broken 4 or 5 ACRs but they always get replaced & Jay is constantly trying new things so I expect they'll get better over time. If you want to run a weaponlight the ACR is the only game in town. Haven't had the Looper long enough to break it, but I know someone who has.
Hey guys, this is my first "real post" here. I am new to CCW and I have some questions about appendix carry.
You might want to check out a previous, fairly involved discussion that we've had before on the issue:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=17903
1) Do any of you here carry in this method?
Yes, for a little over a year now.
2) For those of you who don't why would you recommend against it?
If you screw up, you'll blow your testicles off if you're lucky. If you're unlucky, you'll put a big chunk of sharp edged lead through your femoral artery.
3) I am looking into this holster and company:
Never used it, but I'll second YM's dislike of the hooks.
I'm currently using a Looper (http://www.shop.customcarryconcepts.com/product.sc?categoryId=3&productId=10). I've broken two AIWB Loopers. The first was the original design, which had a single thickness of kydex attaching the loop to the holster body. It broke over time right along the point where I'd applied high heat reshaping the cant. The second, newer generation one also broke where I'd tried to reshape it with heat, but because the new version has two folds of kydex between the loop and body, even when the one cracked the holster was still functional ... in fact, it's exactly like the earlier generation.
For the Looper I'm using now, Rich made me the new generation plus thicker (0.090 vs. 0.080) kydex. It seems about as tough as a kydex holster can be, plus I've learned not to reshape it with heat. I never make the same mistake ten or twenty times!
Jay Cunningham
10-22-09, 02:51
Hey guys, this is my first "real post" here. I am new to CCW and I have some questions about appendix carry.
1) Do any of you here carry in this method?
2) For those of you who don't why would you recommend against it?
3) I am looking into this holster and company: http://www.onesourcetactical.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=731
I saw it in a video in another publication. Has anyone had any experience with the company and that specific holster?
If you read all the above post, thanks and I am waiting on your replies.:)
Oh, and pics would be great!! LOL!!
I have been carrying AIWB for a bit now. Pretty much everything Todd posted covers it. I carry a Glock 19 and am *extremely F'ing careful* when I reholster. I very much understand having a firearm with a manual safety or mag disconnect for this application.
That said, AIWB opens up many options.
I've been using appendix carry since around 2004 and it works great for me. I can only speak for myself but if you have the right holster and your body type can handle with carrying in the 1-2 o'clock location then it might be good for you too.
Currently, I carry a Glock 19 in a Raven ACR holster and it been a great combo for me so far.
I've played around with A-IWB for a number of years. If it works for you, there are a number of significant advantages to it. The OST/Fricke/Suarez appendix designs are the least evolved/least serviceable that I have worked with.
+1 on the Looper. I've had mine for a little over a month now, but hands down the best AIWB I've tried FWIW. I'm not a complete fat ****, but could probably stand to lose 40 pounds, but I still find i can pull of AWIB comfortabley with the Looper. Holsters are very personal things and what works for one person may not work for another. I've found this is especially true with AIWB holsters.
If you go with the Looper get the option of leather on the backside of the holster. it's worth it IMO. As far as the EHUD (and any other design that uses J-hooks) I don't like it because it puts the weight of the rig on the pants instead of the belt where it belongs.
I have been carrying AIWB for a bit now. Pretty much everything Todd posted covers it. I carry a Glock 19 and am *extremely F'ing careful* when I reholster. I very much understand having a firearm with a manual safety or mag disconnect for this application.
That said, AIWB opens up many options.
Katar, what about a mag disco makes a gun safer for reholstering?
(I've got an idea but I'd like to hear yours...)
Jay Cunningham
10-22-09, 10:29
Katar, what about a mag disco makes a gun safer for reholstering?
(I've got an idea but I'd like to hear yours...)
Well, if you eject the mag before you reholster and then re-insert the mag, there's a helluva lot less likely of a chance of making a hole in yourself.
:)
1) I occasionally appendix carry a Glock 19 in a Raven ACR.
2) The whole nutsack / artery thing is always in the back of the mind
3) Never tried that holster.
I like appendix carry for the ease of access and quickness of the draw. Depending on the fit & cut of the shirt there are instances when appendix conceals better than 3:30 and vice-versa. One of the biggest deciding factors for me is my expected physical activity for that day... if I will either be sitting or standing for long periods then the ACR is extremely comfortable. If I am bending at the waist a lot, or constantly sitting and standing it starts to feel like a rat is trying to chew his way through my pelvis pretty quickly.
decodeddiesel
10-22-09, 11:14
I have been carrying AIWB for a bit now. Pretty much everything Todd posted covers it. I carry a Glock 19 and am *extremely F'ing careful* when I reholster. I very much understand having a firearm with a manual safety or mag disconnect for this application.
That said, AIWB opens up many options.
This is the exact reason why I got the thumb safety on my M&P9C.
I've been carrying a G19 AWIB in a very pedestrian Bianchi model 100 Professional.
One piece of potential advice that I have is to holster the gun with the holster held in your weak hand (obviously with your finger off the trigger and also making sure that you don't sweep your hand) and only then inserting the already holstered gun into your waist band. This way you avert a potentially catastrophic ND while you are holstering.
I've also put an NY-1 trigger (with the spring portion removed) in the pistol as well and this gives me additional piece of mind, although I've practiced holstering an unloaded Glock with a "-" connector hundreds of times with the holster already in place in the AIWB/IWB position and I've never had the trigger inadvertently activated, but I'd rather be safe than sorry, so I holster a loaded pistol only with the holster out of my pants.
Good luck.
I love appendix carry. I've tried a lot of IWB holster with little success. I just couldn't find a holster that was comfortable for me, and I've spent a lot of money on holsters. I ended up getting a deep IWB leather holster for a S&W J-frame from a retired NYPD officer and I could not believe how comfortable it was in the appendix position. It looks just like a holster sold by Bell Charter Oak holsters called the Deep Drop Bandit. AIWB will always be my first choice for carry followed by pocket.
Here's a link to Bell Charter Oak: http://bellcharteroakholsters.com/iwb.html
This has been my primary mode of carry( with a g19)since june. I am mostly using an old BT IWB that I have retro fit with some moleskin on the inboard side. I have also used my RCS with a g35/tlr1 combo and it is workable, though much less comfortable.
It is fast, concealable and therby allows a much more expanded non tactical teddy wardeobe. I am 6' 2ish 200ish. An Addidas soccer shirt over a wicking wife beater and I am good to go.
I would be most intrigued by a workable AIWB with a weapon mounted light solution. Is the RCS ACR the only real game in town?
YammyMonkey
10-23-09, 01:08
Re: holstering & removing parts- While it's all nice & good to be able to holster w/o looking I think it's much safer to look down at the holster before & during insertion. As soon as the muzzle (or light) hits the holster I stop & double check my finger as well. "I'm missing half my dick but you should see my blindfolded speed reholster videos on YouTube." is something I never want to be able to say.
Re: light & AIWB- I've asked around to every AIWB holster maker I could find about making one for a gun w/light & RCS is the only place that would do it. From talking to Rich at CCC it sounds like he has tried to play with the idea but hasn't found anything that worked. The response from most of the other places was along the lines of no & not interested.
Well, if you eject the mag before you reholster and then re-insert the mag, there's a helluva lot less likely of a chance of making a hole in yourself.
:)
understood. that is exactly the reason I was considering getting a compact with the mag disco. thanks...
Littlelebowski
10-23-09, 08:48
I've been carrying AWIB at about 12:30 for several months. Using the aforementioned Looper holster. I am extremely careful holstering and drawing and do not have any safety worries so long as I keep on worrying about negligent discharges if that makes sense :D
I used to carry at about 4:30 and find AWIB far more comfortable, faster on the draw, and easier to conceal. Only downside is as Todd mentioned; if something goes wrong, it will really go wrong. I have alleviated what I can with training, practice, and a heavier than stock trigger on my Glock 19.
I strongly recommend the Looper holster from personal experience.
This is the exact reason why I got the thumb safety on my M&P9C.
yup yup. but I don't ever want a manual safety between me and bang on a defensive pistol.
don't get me wrong, I love my 1911's but I consider them an offensive fighting handgun, not something I'd want if I had to react defensively...
I have alleviated what I can with training, practice, and a heavier than stock trigger on my Glock 19.
I'm curious as to the heavier trigger. Do you feel that with the heavier trigger you will be alerted if there is resistence when re-holstering?
yup yup. but I don't ever want a manual safety between me and bang on a defensive pistol.
An ergonomically designed safety lever combined with a proper grip eliminates the danger of having the gun accidentally on-safe when you need to fire it.
Littlelebowski
10-23-09, 09:24
I'm curious as to the heavier trigger. Do you feel that with the heavier trigger you will be alerted if there is resistence when re-holstering?
No. I think that since it requires more pressure, it makes it less likely that an ND could occur. Not that I ever have my finger on the trigger when reholstering that is. Little surprised I have to explain this.
An ergonomically designed safety lever combined with a proper grip eliminates the danger of having the gun accidentally on-safe when you need to fire it.
I've never thought of deactivating the safety as the issue, rather it is just another mechanism for Mr. Murphy to throw his monkey wrench into.
I've never thought of deactivating the safety as the issue, rather it is just another mechanism for Mr. Murphy to throw his monkey wrench into.
I understand that on a conceptual level. In practice, I haven't seen it to be true. There are guns with 60 parts that are as durable and reliable (or more durable and reliable) as other guns with 30 parts.
Yes, the mechanism could suffer a problem at the exact wrong moment. Or something could interfere with you operating it properly. But weighed against that should be the benefits of having a positive manual safety on a pistol from, e.g., a weapons retention standpoint or in the instant topic of discussion, safety in reholstering.
My '08 car has countless more parts and complicated pieces than a car from 20 years ago. It has more things that can go wrong. But I wouldn't give up, say, airbags just because it adds more parts and is "one more thing that can go wrong."
decodeddiesel
10-23-09, 10:19
An ergonomically designed safety lever combined with a proper grip eliminates the danger of having the gun accidentally on-safe when you need to fire it.
Sage words from the expert.
The placement of the M&P safety is such that a normal "modern" thumbs forward grip places your firing hand thumb on top of the safety by default and essentially automatically flicks it off.
Further the design of said safety is perhaps the lest intrusive thumb safety design I am aware of as all it does is "loosely" block the transfer bar from tripping the sear. There's no critical fitment issues like a 1911 and from examining the design it would be very difficult for something to foul the mechanism to where I would not be able to disengage it. Not saying it's impossible, but it is highly unlikely.
All in all I am just more comfortable carrying a loaded weapon in the appendix position with a manual safety.
I has the Ehud for a few weeks but the design adds a lot of width to your carry piece. Notice the way the belt hook is attached to the holster, that's three layers of thick kydex in between your belt and the gun. I would have asked Dale Fricke to make one without the belt hook but the Raven ACR came out, which I feel has better retention, weights less and is much thinner.
RAM Engineer
10-23-09, 10:42
I feel dumb because I had to use Wikipedia to figure out where, geographically, the appendix is on a human body, just so I'd know what "appendix carry" is.
I feel dumb because I had to use Wikipedia to figure out where, geographically, the appendix is on a human body, just so I'd know what "appendix carry" is.
As a physician, I think I can help you with this one. Just think of it as SSTN (side of shlong, top of nut) carry :)
No. I think that since it requires more pressure, it makes it less likely that an ND could occur. Not that I ever have my finger on the trigger when reholstering that is. Little surprised I have to explain this.
Your original post led me to believe that you had a heavier trigger to negate ND issues with appendix carry which I didn't understand.
I have carried my Glock 19 AIWB for years in a FIST #1K Ultra Thin Kydex. Handling firearms takes discipline and diligence... especially when drawing and holstering... kind of like take-off and landing if you fly. Adopting a new style of carry requires practice... and with AIWB there is little room for error. Be safe.
http://www.fist-inc.com/holsters/k1/1k.htm
Just a couple of quick items.
1 - I regularly carry my Glock 26 in a Mitch Rosen Clipper AWIB when off duty (I carry my duty pistol strong side hip on duty).
It is very comfortable and I have no fears about ND's. I will add that I have trained on drawing, firing and holstering from this position for a long time. I previously carried a Kahr K40 (2000 vintage) in this very same manor.
Here is a link to the Holster (it is at the bottom of the page)
link (http://www.mitchrosen.com/new_products/new_products.html)
2 - If you are left handed is it still "appendix carry"? :D
sniperfrog
10-23-09, 19:28
I've been carrying appendix carry for a few months now. Using the Looper with an M&P. I guess I'm fortunite that I have a small package so I don't worry too much about blowing it off...:(
I've been carrying AIWB for about 4 years now. I won't carry any other way when off duty or plain clothes. I carried my P229R in a Don Hume straight drop leather holster and carry my M&P340 in a kydex holster or with it's Barami Hip Grips when flying armed and off duty.
Don Robison
10-23-09, 22:16
Hey guys, this is my first "real post" here. I am new to CCW and I have some questions about appendix carry.
1) Do any of you here carry in this method?
2) For those of you who don't why would you recommend against it?
3) I am looking into this holster and company: http://www.onesourcetactical.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=731
I saw it in a video in another publication. Has anyone had any experience with the company and that specific holster?
If you read all the above post, thanks and I am waiting on your replies.:)
Oh, and pics would be great!! LOL!!
1. I've been carrying a G21SF AIWB since July 07.
2. I recommend it as long as you train with it and your body type allows it. Like has been said, plenty can go wrong if you AD/ND re-holstering.
3. Dale is a good guy, but I'm not all that warm to his holsters. It's not the material or quality, but as the others have said it's the hooks I don't care for. He has recently come out with two newer versions of the EHUD. Out of the two if I were to try one it would be the ArchAngel.
I've been using a HighNoon Hideaway in horse hide since Sept 07 with no complaints.
http://www.onesourcetactical.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1970
http://www.onesourcetactical.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1503
http://www.highnoonholsters.com/Product_Line/_Hideaway_w_strap/_hideaway_w_strap.html
photosniper
10-23-09, 23:30
during the summer months I carried my H&K USPc appendix carry in a plain old Galco IWB holster. Once I found the exact spot where it belonged, it was amazingly comfortable and the leather holster didn't dig-in the way a kydex does. Nice thing about this mode of carry, I could effective conceal my USP wearing shorts and a t-shirt.
I completely agree with everyone else, the safety on my USP was ON before I even thought about holstering.
First I gotta say thanks Todd, when I did the search I only found one tread that hade anything to do with the subject. The thread you posted was GREAT!!!
To everyone else, thanks for the info and being willing to post it again. The amount of and quality of the responses of been amazing. I have like 20 tabs open with the different links to holsters LOL!!!
I do have two more questions, then I am going to sit back and continue to be educated. Just for clarification, the looper can't be worn with a shirt tucked in? I think I read it right but I just want to ensure I read it right. Lastly, what AIWB (I am learning the abbreviations :D) can be worn w/a tucked in shirt, other than the underpants holster?
Again, thanks guys.
during the summer months I carried my H&K USPc appendix carry in a plain old Galco IWB holster. Once I found the exact spot where it belonged, it was amazingly comfortable and the leather holster didn't dig-in the way a kydex does. Nice thing about this mode of carry, I could effective conceal my USP wearing shorts and a t-shirt.
I completely agree with everyone else, the safety on my USP was ON before I even thought about holstering.
What cal is the USP? I have a 45c and I have read that most holsters for the USP45 fit the 45c (but not the black hawk serpa it kept ejecting my mag:mad:)
First I gotta say thanks Todd, when I did the search I only found one tread that hade anything to do with the subject. The thread you posted was GREAT!!!
To everyone else, thanks for the info and being willing to post it again. The amount of and quality of the responses of been amazing. I have like 20 tabs open with the different links to holsters LOL!!!
I do have two more questions, then I am going to sit back and continue to be educated. Just for clarification, the looper can't be worn with a shirt tucked in? I think I read it right but I just want to ensure I read it right. Lastly, what AIWB (I am learning the abbreviations :D) can be worn w/a tucked in shirt, other than the underpants holster?
Again, thanks guys.
I ordered this one a few days ago and will give it a shot. I selected the tuckable version.
http://alabamaholster.com/index.php?p=2_1
I ordered this one a few days ago and will give it a shot. I selected the tuckable version.
http://alabamaholster.com/index.php?p=2_1
I came across those a few months back (been researching this since before I even had a gun LOL!!!!) when you get it may you post a review and a few pics? I love gun porn :D
Anyway, it is bed time. My wife is telling me she will beat my butt if I don't come NOW!!!! LOL!!!
I tried one of Fricke's Joabs and found it much less concealable than the Raven ACR. Would like some more input on the Alabama holster Appendix offerings when available.
Just be careful of size when you're looking at appendix carry holsters. Remember that everything has to fit between your centerline (where your belt buckle is), and the inside of your thigh (especially when seated).
I don't think the holsters with the offset loops would work for ME in appendix position.
Eric
YammyMonkey
10-27-09, 01:27
Just be careful of size when you're looking at appendix carry holsters. Remember that everything has to fit between your centerline (where your belt buckle is), and the inside of your thigh (especially when seated).
I don't think the holsters with the offset loops would work for ME in appendix position.
Eric
The offset belt loop like the ACR has is up on your belt line so it won't interfere with your ability to sit or otherwise move around. Unless, of course, you wear your pants 1/2 way down your butt.:eek:
SW-Shooter
10-27-09, 02:27
I've been carrying a G19 AWIB in a very pedestrian Bianchi model 100 Professional.
One piece of potential advice that I have is to holster the gun with the holster held in your weak hand (obviously with your finger off the trigger and also making sure that you don't sweep your hand) and only then inserting the already holstered gun into your waist band. This way you avert a potentially catastrophic ND while you are holstering.
I've also put an NY-1 trigger (with the spring portion removed) in the pistol as well and this gives me additional piece of mind, although I've practiced holstering an unloaded Glock with a "-" connector hundreds of times with the holster already in place in the AIWB/IWB position and I've never had the trigger inadvertently activated, but I'd rather be safe than sorry, so I holster a loaded pistol only with the holster out of my pants.
Good luck.
I too follow this line of reasoning. I carry between 2 and 3 and I use the NY and - connector, my holster finds my gun, not vice versa.
Again, thanks for the info. Much food for thought as I find a sutable AIWB holster and ensure I don't kill myself or lose the option for kids.......
Just thought of another issue, how do you guys carry in the winter? Do the extra layers pose a problem getting to the weapon?
I just ordered a Raven ACR for my Glock 26. Is there any drawbacks to using this method of carry with the 26? I know I can adjust it for depth so hopefully I can get it to "seat" far enough down so it dosent feel like it is "flopping" around.
Any thoughts/tips would be appreciated!
Thanks in advance-
YammyMonkey
10-28-09, 00:46
Just thought of another issue, how do you guys carry in the winter? Do the extra layers pose a problem getting to the weapon?
Same setup year round for me. It is harder to access under a shirt & jacket, you just have to practice a little more, not a big deal.
Just thought of another issue, how do you guys carry in the winter? Do the extra layers pose a problem getting to the weapon?
The important thing is that the longest piece of clothing covering the gun needs to be the inside one. When you reach down, the lowest piece of clothing you can rip upwards should be the one that pulls all the cover garments out of your way.
I just ordered a Raven ACR for my Glock 26. Is there any drawbacks to using this method of carry with the 26? I know I can adjust it for depth so hopefully I can get it to "seat" far enough down so it dosent feel like it is "flopping" around.
It's actually harder to deal with very short, butt-heavy guns AIWB than longer ones. You've got to find a ride height that gives you an adequate full grip in the holster but still prevents the gun from flopping forward at the butt when you bend over, etc.
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