EAG carbine operator course AAR

[QuietShootr]

If you haven't had a chance to train under Pat, you're missing out. This was my (I think) 3rd or 4th class I've taken with him and he never fails to deliver kick-ass instruction with real-world experiences sprinkled in to illustrate his teaching points.

Temps were high in Boone County this weekend(I think we hit 97 on Sunday afternoon), and Pat and the Fighting Hueser Brothers worked us hard. Thanks to Sheriff Ken for his usual hard work and dedication to making the experience as smooth and enjoyable as possible, and to Larue and TangoDown for my take-home goodies. For managing to keep my weapon pointed in the general direction of the target most of the time, I took home a TD VFG and Battlegrip, and a shiny new Larue M68 mount, which I got mounted up last night. I'm VERY impressed with the fit and finish of this mount, and I think I can see sending lots more money to Texas in the future.

Other random notes: AO Express pistol sights SUCK like an Electrolux. Maybe if you can't shoot worth a shit you wouldn't notice, but otherwise leave these things in the gun shop.

USE MC-3000 and TW25B. They work.

KFH/KX3s are the heat on an SBR.

Colt is still the king.

Thanks again to everyone...

Anyway...my .02..

generic

[Pat_Rogers]

Thanks for the kind words.
That was the last class of 4 open enrollment classes (that turned out to be 2/3 cops anyway) travelling through Albion MI, Waunakee WI and Boone County IN.

WX was typical mid west, running from hot and muggy to T-storms, tornado warnings and some hail.
Some very good people attending, and the mix was interesting.
Shep Kelly came down from IL to deliver a great presentation on ammunition. All of those using XM whatever would have blanched.
On another note, a SWAT Team was down for the 3rd class, and brought with them uppers from a lower tier maker. They were nothing but trouble. Chambers were waaaay too tight, (until reamed to proper specs with the Ned Christiensen tool), had the wrong extractor spring and blue (!!!) inserts.
After we replaced all of the defects the guns ran, but the team was pissed.
If you are playing, about anything will do.
However, if you are doing this for real, i'll strongly suggest using only that equipment which is made to a standard (that is, one that is specified contractually) and enforced.
Watching these guys run throug 20-25 malfunctions a day was pitiful.

Many thanks to those who hosted these classes- Clintyon Wirtz and Dennis Chinonis at Albion, Dane Count SO in WI, and Sheriff Elect Ken Campbell in Boone County- a true American.

[LukeMacGillie]

So who is the "Sheriff Campbell" of NOVA? PCSing in 2 weeks to the DC Area. While I could combine training at Boone County with visiting my family, I doubt that anyones going to be giving classes at Thanksgiving or Christmas!

[Pat_Rogers]

Timing is everything.......
Re NOVA- haha! Regardless of personal opinions, DC is a crime ridden and very PC city, and that trickles down to all of the 'burbs.
Ken is truly unique, and when i did a story about him for SWAT magazine last year i tried to find just one other agency who had the same attitude and provided the same training to the citizens as Ken.
I was unsuccessful.
There may be someone, but he isn't on the skyline.

[baffle Stack]

Thanks for the kind words.
That was the last class of 4 open enrollment classes (that turned out to be 2/3 cops anyway) travelling through Albion MI, Waunakee WI and Boone County IN.

WX was typical mid west, running from hot and muggy to T-storms, tornado warnings and some hail.
Some very good people attending, and the mix was interesting.
Shep Kelly came down from IL to deliver a great presentation on ammunition. All of those using XM whatever would have blanched.
On another note, a SWAT Team was down for the 3rd class, and brought with them uppers from a lower tier maker. They were nothing but trouble. Chambers were waaaay too tight, (until reamed to proper specs with the Ned Christiensen tool), had the wrong extractor spring and blue (!!!) inserts.
After we replaced all of the defects the guns ran, but the team was pissed.
If you are playing, about anything will do.
However, if you are doing this for real, i'll strongly suggest using only that equipment which is made to a standard (that is, one that is specified contractually) and enforced.
Watching these guys run throug 20-25 malfunctions a day was pitiful.

Many thanks to those who hosted these classes- Clintyon Wirtz and Dennis Chinonis at Albion, Dane Count SO in WI, and Sheriff Elect Ken Campbell in Boone County- a true American.

Hi Pat. Does this mean stay away from "special run" uppers and stick with something that is built to comply with the real M4 drawings, Like BCM or LMT or Colt. I take it this is what was meant by the "Colt is still king" comment. Also who was the lower tier maker? I hope those SWAT guys take your advice and their dept can afford to get them some better uppers. These guys are the guys that need them most.

Thanks,
Anthony

[Pat_Rogers]

Hi Anthony- not sure what you mean by "special run" here, but the uppers in question were from an aftermarket company that is not required to comply with the TDP.
All of the companies can turn out good guns and bad- the issue is that while all are capable of making an excellent product, many short cuts are instituted in order to lower prices/ increase profit margins or whatever.
There are excellent uppers/ lowers/ guns turned out by some who do not have to meet the req's of the TDP- BCM, Noveske etc.
All of my guns are Colt; LMT; Noveske, and i have several BCM uppers on Colt lowers.
I'm confident in these, based on my observations.
Some companies turn out great competition rifles, but 3 gun and service rifle isn't the same as fighting.
Bottom line is that people have to but equipment based on their mission requirements. If the "mission" is hobby shooting, about anything will suffice as the round count and abuse factor is low. Competitive shooters will shoot more, but gun problems there will mean lost points, not lost lives.
In this instance we brought the chambers to spec, replaced the out of spec springs/ inserts and extractors, and they have learned an expensive lesson- but no one is dead because of it.

[baffle Stack]

Maybe special run was the wrong phrase what I meant was that there are A LOT of dealers and manufactures to choose from now. The majority of them, like you said, may choose to cut corners to maximize profit. I have seen this in a Bushmaster carbine I purchased about 2 years ago. I feel it should have had some basic features such as the correct front sight base, correct receiver extension and properly stalked carrier key, none of which it had.

I am glad to hear you were able to fix most of their problems. EAG tactical must be a top notch training facility. Were you able to make those necessary repairs quickly and on site or did you stop class and make it a learning experience for all your students?

[QuietShootr]

Timing is everything.......
Re NOVA- haha! Regardless of personal opinions, DC is a crime ridden and very PC city, and that trickles down to all of the 'burbs.
Ken is truly unique, and when i did a story about him for SWAT magazine last year i tried to find just one other agency who had the same attitude and provided the same training to the citizens as Ken.
I was unsuccessful.
There may be someone, but he isn't on the skyline.

Ken is definitely one in a million. Brother Luke, I just realized an unexpected :D to the :( of your PCS...

[Pat_Rogers]

I am not a facility. I do primarily DoD work with a few open enrollment classes/ year. I travel to facilities that agree to host me.
We had to get these guys rolling (the following week the SWAT team at class was called out to get a perp, shots fired at cops. They got him and returned to class the next day).
We changed the extractor springs etc and reamed the chambers while they were at lunch.
They were ready by the time we lined the class up at 1230.

[Multi-G]

Other random notes: AO Express pistol sights SUCK like an Electrolux. Maybe if you can't shoot worth a shit you wouldn't notice, but otherwise leave these things in the gun shop.

generic


That is an interesting observation. Just how much time do you have behind AO pistol sights? Big dot or little dot?

[LukeMacGillie]

Ken is definitely one in a million. Brother Luke, I just realized an unexpected :D to the :( of your PCS...

Well in my mind Engrish as the language of the day is a good point.

[QuietShootr]

That is an interesting observation. Just how much time do you have behind AO pistol sights? Big dot or little dot?

Oh, probably 1500 rounds as of yesterday, and about 300 presentations, as a guess. Big dot.

Look, if you like 'em, more power to you...they just don't blow my skirt up.

[QuietShootr]

Well in my mind Engrish as the language of the day is a good point.

insert map






:D