Water flotation + battle rattle for maritime ops [Archive]

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Iraq Ninja

10-24-09, 09:18

Armati

10-24-09, 12:39

Check out Mustang Survival. They have a line of survival flotation products for LEO and .mil boat team, aviators, and water borne assaulters.

Several of their products are designed to resist or survive small arm fire. They also have several options that attach to MOLLE vests as an inflatable flotation collar. It sort of folds away and mounts like a sort of bulky neck armor. They also have a hydrostatic immersion sensor that will self deploy when you hit the water.

Get a catalog and look over the options.

You may want to also look at polyethylene (UHMWPE) ballistic plates. We have used the Protech Level III Stand Alone plates and the 5x7in side plates. They float and they will stop multi-strike 7.62x39. Doc Roberts says you should use them in conjunction with IIIA against M885 5.56mm.

I don't know how they stack up against 7.62x39 steel core. These days you can find the Protect plates for under $200. It may be worth doing your own destructive testing just to be sure. If your worried about Somali pirates (and other denizens of the third world) you may want to test this rig against the ever popular 7.62x54mm LPS. Personally, I would be more interested in how holds up against PKM fire at maritime ranges. I doubt you would be engaged with a PKM at 10m while at sea.

I know plenty of guys who have bet their life on these plates in Afghanistan because they were so light. Of course, in Afghanistan, fatigue will get you long before Hadji will.

Iraq Ninja

10-24-09, 13:35

Thanks for the info.

I am having to rethink all my kit. I wish I had a pool I could test my current configuration in. I use the Crye CAGE chassis, and I heard rumors that they had a modification for PJs that included water wings.

We were issued the polyethylene plates back in 04. Not sure of the brand, but I think they were from the UK. They did well against 7.62x39 but 5.56 zipped thru them easily. They didn't hold up well in the heat, and started to resemble a "plastic phone book" as each sheet came unglued. I am assuming they were an early version of poly plates using laminated sheets.

Armati

10-24-09, 14:15

Is there a dive shop or dive school in your area? If you come to them as a pro getting ready to do anti-piracy PMC work, they may work with you and all of your special requirements.

They can also give you all sorts of advice on how to manage your buoyancy.

Also, keep in mind your real fighting load. Adding ammo will drastically affect your buoyancy. This seems like common sense but it is sometimes overlooked.

the judge

10-24-09, 14:20

I am starting to research a possible kit loadout for maritime ops. Setup will be for shipping security.

What I need is advice from our BTDT water breather types as to the best way to incorporate a flotation system into a fighting system. I am imaging a situation in which someone has to go overboard and stay afloat for long periods of time till recovered.

Options I have seen before include-

1. flotation foam incorporated into the vest or chest rig.
2. UDT vest
3. PECI

LBT has a couple of Flotation vests that would fit they bill. The have a full on assault vest or a lower profile chest rig style that takes flotation inserts. I think the lower profile set up would lend itself better to wearing over armor and I agree that the lighter plates you can get the better. I would literally try a submersion test as well. Once you are kitted out, you need to see if your flotation will actually keep you afloat or if they weight will still drag you to the bottom.

A little different scenario than you are mentioning, but when I used to do ship boarding, we used full mustang flotation jackets and carried all our gear in backpacks. The packs were easy to bin if you went over and were being pulled down by the weight.

Iraq Ninja

10-24-09, 14:43

Is there a dive shop or dive school in your area?

Not here in Iraq :) I will be home on leave next month and want to sort this out. In this industry things happen quickly. As Iraq draws down in terms of work, the future seems to be in A Stan and Africa.

Judge,

I like the backpack idea. I have a modified Eagle rifleman's chest rig that I got from a former SEAL. It was modified by their riggers to accept flotation pads, but I don't know what kind of pads were used. I assume it was closed cell foam.

sinister

10-24-09, 15:26

You'll need to float-test any you eventually choose with full basic load.

London Bridge in Virginia Beach specializes in maritime equipment (the SEALs and boat guys are their biggest customer base). This is a closed-cell foam outift specifically for folks who work around water full-time:

http://www.londonbridgetrading.com/OurProducts/Overview/PFD/smallLBT-1620G-R.gif

These are inflatables for unintentional, in-extremis / distress use:

http://www.pacsafety.com/graphics/products/p_4300.jpg
http://www.specwargear.com/images/survivalgear-LPU-32-3.jpg

Parachutist water wings:

http://www.paragear.com/catalog/PICTURES/floatation/L1425Water.1.jpg

Saloris

10-24-09, 22:20

N/M... Don't read this as it was silly...

rob_s

10-24-09, 22:25

A friend (that's him on the right in the main picture) and member here has worked with Brownies (http://www.browniespublicsafety.com/bodyarmor.html) in the past. I'll send him a link to this thread.

patriot_man

10-25-09, 13:49

Eagle RRV + Floatation device + Hard plate

or

Eagle Swimmer Plate carrier "Developed for NSW" I saw it on SKD but I looked today but it is gone + Swimmer Hard Plates ( More space given near shoulders for more range of motion) + Flotation device

eggroll

10-25-09, 16:56

IN

Mustang Survival is GTG
Here is a close approximation of the military LPU34

http://www.mustangsurvival.com/products/product.php?id=516&mc=57

and another potential option
http://www.mustangsurvival.com/products/product.php?id=602&mc=57

MIKE G

10-25-09, 17:32

......

Batt 57

10-25-09, 21:51

Hi,

Just saw this thread. I am the guy Rob_S mentioned above. Sorry I am seeing this late but I just got back into town.

This week I will post a description of our product, how it works, and the differences between what we build and more common types of armor flotation.
Sorry for not getting to it now but I need to leave again for about 36 hours.

Steve

Brownies Public Safety (http://www.browniesmarinegroup.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=70&Itemid=170)

mx21

11-06-09, 22:51

Aerial ALPS unit-35lb flotation: We wear these daily for SAR. In training, we load up the vest with 16lb weight, flightsuit/boots and sink them to bottom of 14 foot deep end/pull the manual release so they can have confidence that it will not only float them but also show them inflation/ascent rate (if they were to pull it after exiting aircraft).

http://www.aerialmachineandtool.com/webshaper/store/viewProd.asp?pkProductItem=19

We are not carrying ammo:

If you need more flotation you can get the LPU-40 (65lbs of flotation):

http://www.aerialmachineandtool.com/webshaper/store/viewProd.asp?pkProductItem=3