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View Full Version : Real Drawbacks on a SBR or SBS permits???


lil'Zeus
10-24-09, 11:55
I have herd many things like its an open search warrent to your house by the ATF and this and that. I have searced here trying to finds some of those answers, but what is your guys take on this? What drawbacks or hinderances have you run into with the NFA?

Thanks in advance for someone who is thinking about applying for a SBR permit.

Shane
Artos
10-24-09, 12:00
The only drawback I see is not being able to enjoy an sbr or suppressor. Don't let the black helicopters influence your decision.


The waiting period is the only hinderence I have.;) Whoever came up with the term time flies never had to wait for a toy that was already paiod for.:D
lil'Zeus
10-24-09, 12:13
Thanks for the quick response! So is it true you open your doors to an unwarranted search by ATF anytime they want though.

My worry is that if it ever comes to banning and taking guns by our gov that will give them the go ahead to come take all my stuff...do you think I'm reading to much into this? Its kind of hard to burry/hide a gun that you have to have permits for...

Thanks
Robb Jensen
10-24-09, 12:18
I have herd many things like its an open search warrent to your house by the ATF and this and that. I have searced here trying to finds some of those answers, but what is your guys take on this? What drawbacks or hinderances have you run into with the NFA?

Thanks in advance for someone who is thinking about applying for a SBR permit.

Shane

Having a tax stamp does not waive your 4th Amendment rights.
Artos
10-24-09, 12:28
I do not want to belittle your concern Zeus. However, I think we will either stand together or be picked off one by one. I know some gun & shooting enthusiests who have their CHL's here in Texas but still worry about filling out a 4473 and buying nfa items:confused::confused: 'I think' this a bit irrational because if there really is a short list, they are on it.;)

I'm an ffl (01 dealer), have a chl and a suppressor...so I have already opened my life to big brother.

I have never heard of anyone breaking down doors to check items but have been informed of a few cases where a coutesy call by ATF was used to check a possible straw purchases and current ownership of an nfa item. ALL said they were very polite and professional. ALL the atf agents I have dealt with have been super cool and many of them have become friends.

Take it for what it is worth.
dbrowne1
10-24-09, 12:41
I have herd many things like its an open search warrent to your house by the ATF and this and that. I have searced here trying to finds some of those answers, but what is your guys take on this? What drawbacks or hinderances have you run into with the NFA?

Thanks in advance for someone who is thinking about applying for a SBR permit.

Shane

Owning NFA items does not alter your 4th Amendment rights (or any other rights) in any way whatsoever. The rules about search and seizure in your home are the same as if you didn't have them.

I know a few people who won't even get a concealed handgun permit because they don't want to be on any government radars, but they own a ton of guns that plenty of people know about because they don't really keep it a secret. I don't know who they think they're kidding when they talk about keeping their gun owner status from the government.
lil'Zeus
10-24-09, 15:20
Thank you guys for you answers to my concerns. I do think we should all stand together if it ever came to that though.

I'm thinking about doing it and getting a 11.5" barrel for my current set up and call it a day! The decision about what barrel to buy may be the hard part for my setup...lol

You guys have been very helpful to a new person on the board and I enjoy reading all I can in other threads to learn more about the great AR platform.

Thanks
Shane
SteyrAUG
10-24-09, 23:53
Thanks for the quick response! So is it true you open your doors to an unwarranted search by ATF anytime they want though.

My worry is that if it ever comes to banning and taking guns by our gov that will give them the go ahead to come take all my stuff...do you think I'm reading to much into this? Its kind of hard to burry/hide a gun that you have to have permits for...

Thanks


Not true. Prior to FOPA 86 NFA owners were subject to compliance inspections but not since then, only FFLs. ATF abuses prior to FOPA 86 were indeed something to worry about, and even though MGs were legal to own and register fear of going "on the list" prevented most people from doing so.

Ironically, the legislation that fixed most of that also included a last minute amendment which closed the registration.

Of course all NFA guns are registered to you. So if the .gov ever comes door to door simply hide all your other guns.

:D
COLT6933
10-25-09, 00:14
the only thing i dislike about form 4 stuff is that no one else can have access to it. I had to get another safe that only i know the combo for since my brother,father and wife all use my other safe. That is my only complaint as it cost me a bunch of cash to buy another one that only I have access to
lil'Zeus
10-25-09, 01:53
hmmm.....so you have to legally keep it under lock and key which only the registered owner/user can access....interesting
Iraqgunz
10-25-09, 02:14
Anyone can shoot it as long as you are present. You just can't loan it out to your buddies whenever they ask. Since I purchase my NFA stuff with a trust acces is a non-issue.


hmmm.....so you have to legally keep it under lock and key which only the registered owner/user can access....interesting
lil'Zeus
10-25-09, 10:44
I don't loan my guns out to anyone anyhow, so that would probably be a non issue. I took that as if you where not using it, it had to be under lock and key somewhere...
glockshooter
10-25-09, 10:57
I think the only real problem I have is having to ask permission to take it to another state. You fill out a fed form for a fed stamp, but then have to ask to move it interstate.

Matt
Powderburn
10-25-09, 12:21
Everybody seems to be right on the money that has already posted.

In my opinion though, the only drawback to having an SBR is not having enough cash to feed it sufficiently:p
M4Fundi
10-25-09, 13:17
I do not know the law now, but back in the 80s in Texas I remember the ATF doing an "inspection" on a NFA owner and they conducted it as a raid at night that resembled the Branch Davidian raid. The ATF discovered no wrong doing.

I won't even go into the Branch Davidian Standoff:(
COLT6933
10-25-09, 13:50
I don't loan my guns out to anyone anyhow, so that would probably be a non issue. I took that as if you where not using it, it had to be under lock and key somewhere...

thats the way it is. No one else can have access to your NFA stuff if you go the individual route. the way you get around it is by going the trust/corp route but I prefer my form 4's in my name
Iraqgunz
10-25-09, 15:05
LE agencies can and do make mistakes. On the by and large you don't hear about this type of shenanigans. When you do there is usually more to the story.


I do not know the law now, but back in the 80s in Texas I remember the ATF doing an "inspection" on a NFA owner and they conducted it as a raid at night that resembled the Branch Davidian raid. The ATF discovered no wrong doing.

I won't even go into the Branch Davidian Standoff:(
Verbal Kint
10-25-09, 18:40
I think the only real problem I have is having to ask permission to take it to another state. You fill out a fed form for a fed stamp, but then have to ask to move it interstate.

Matt

Winner!

Having to seek BATFE's permission to move it in between states, especially if you plan on traveling to schools / training venues a lot can be a PITA. That's the only real drawback I see.
lil'Zeus
10-25-09, 22:42
Hmmm....the interstate thing is a drawback, but I think I can deal with it.

Who dictates the permission for interstate transportation?
Verbal Kint
10-26-09, 01:21
Hmmm....the interstate thing is a drawback, but I think I can deal with it.

Who dictates the permission for interstate transportation?

BATFE

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#m21

(M21) Does the registered owner of a destructive device, machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle need authorization to lawfully transport such items interstate?
Yes, unless the owner is a qualified dealer, manufacturer or importer, or a licensed collector transporting only curios or relics. Prior approval must be obtained, even if the move is temporary. Approval is requested by either submitting a letter containing all necessary information, or by submitting ATF Form 5320.20 to the Bureau of ATF, NFA Branch. Possession of the firearms also must comply with all State and local laws.