View Full Version : Gun Show Question
crusader4x
10-24-09, 21:54
Today I was able to attend a really large gun show in Puyallup, WA. The gun show was great and, while I wasn't able to find what I was looking for (a pelican case and MBUS), I did come home with one big question:
Can someone please explain to me the obsession, found largely in the 2nd Amendment crowd, with Nazi memorabilia?
Let me make a few quick explanitory statements:
1. I believe that people are FREE to be racist in this country as long as their racism doesn't encroach on anybody else's freedoms,
2. I believe people also have a right to own Nazi items and would never support a law making such items illegal.
3. I'm a native born Texan of Asian ethnicity but am NOT offended when I see Nazi items, I'm just curious.
I only ask because Nazi items have been at EVERY gun show I've ever been to and don't understand the obsession.
dmancornell
10-24-09, 22:07
I am also curious. At the Portland Gun Show there were a couple booths with a few token handguns and lots of Nazi memorabilia and racist literature.
I am not white (Asian and newly sworn-in citizen) I gave those tables a wide berth. People are free to be racist, but I believe allowing that kind of booth at the show simply gives the leftists more opportunities to slander all gun owners.
It's like the turquoise jewelry, it's always there. You may not buy it but someone will...:D
crusader4x
10-24-09, 22:09
I just realized that I posted this in the wrong forum. Would a Mod please move this to the General Discussion forum?
In before the move!
Just kidding...
Anyhow... I believe that 2A protects all other Ammendments. Freedom of speach being a big one. I don't know why they exist, but military paraphenilia of all sorts and quality is readily available at military surplus, as well.
I have personally never seen very many people browsing the Nazi booths at Gun shows, unless they had a few Lugers or something on the table.
New post adds nothing...
SV650Squid
10-24-09, 22:29
Did you also see memorabilia of the same era from other countries? 1911's, Garands, uniform items, etc perchance?
A lot of people who collect older guns do it because they're history buffs. I'd guess that's where it came from, but I'm not sure as I usually gloss over those booths.
Please don't stereo type Nazi memorabilia with racism. The owner of the gun shop that I work at part time has one of the largest Nazi uniform collections in the US. He is by no means a racist. There is BIG money in some of these items and A LOT of history. We just received 2 helmets and a trench lamp from Russia the other day and they were just dug up and are in VERY good condition. The one helmet has an entrance and an exit hole(Russian Snipers:D). Kinda neat. There are a few of us out there that aren't ignorant ,red laces in the combat boot, red necks.
crusader4x
10-24-09, 22:50
Please don't stereo type Nazi memorabilia with racism.
As the OP, let me state that it is NOT my intention to accuse all Nazi memoribilia collectors of racism.
The owner of the gun shop that I work at part time has one of the largest Nazi uniform collections in the US. He is by no means a racist. There is BIG money in some of these items and A LOT of history. We just received 2 helmets and a trench lamp from Russia the other day and they were just dug up and are in VERY good condition. The one helmet has an entrance and an exit hole(Russian Snipers:D). Kinda neat. There are a few of us out there that aren't ignorant ,red laces in the combat boot, red necks.
I can understand the historical and financial interest in these types of collections but it seems that the interest is unequally allocated to Nazi memoribilia. If the reasons were strictly historical and financial, why don't I ever see similar quantities of Imperial Japanese items such as rising sun flags or Japanese medallions?
If I had to make an educated guess, I would have to say it is because of the limited availability of the Japanese stuff. Remember, we didn't have many opportunities to take Japanese prisoners.
Belmont31R
10-25-09, 10:33
Guns and war history seem to go together. We fought the bastards in two wars now we get to peddle their crap at gunshows.
Theres a big difference between the "white power" nonsense and Nazi war relics. The white power crowd can go jump off a cliff for all I care but I love history especially WW2. Grew up with a box full of tapes about it, and Id love to have some real Nazi stuff like daggers, unit insignia, and that sort of thing. History is history, and Id prefer the US not become like modern Germany where speaking of WW2 is taboo.
Theres a big difference between the "white power" nonsense and Nazi war relics.
Absolutely. There is a market for these relics amongst firearm enthusiasts, and WWII items have gone hand in hand with gun shows since I was going to them as a teen in the early 80's.
I remember buying a spectacular SS helmet for $55 back then at a show, then selling it as a dopey early twenty-something for peanuts. :mad:
Still have a few things from the shows, like my Vietnam gunship pilot's helmet with "Hunter and Killer" painted on the back.
I am a NAZI and am always on the prowl for good gun show deals. :rolleyes: Of course, we could be like Germany where open display of the Swastika is prohibited (can get you jail time and a fine) and collectors of such memorabilia have to have permission. How is that for freedom?
Belmont31R
10-25-09, 16:19
I am a NAZI and am always on the prowl for good gun show deals. :rolleyes: Of course, we could be like Germany where open display of the Swastika is prohibited (can get you jail time and a fine) and collectors of such memorabilia have to have permission. How is that for freedom?
When I was stationed there a guy in my unit ordered Mein Kampf to read. The German post people intercepted it, and he had to go down to the police station to answer why he had the book sent to them. The only reason they let him have it was prior to his Army days he had gotten a teaching degree and said he was using it for educational purposes. If you want it just to read you can't. Amazing considering that book was written almost a century ago, and they still treat it like that.
If you want it just to read you can't. Amazing considering that book was written almost a century ago, and they still treat it like that.
I think that to use this particular restriction in this particular country relating to this particular circumstance as an overall point of reference is particularly bad judgment.
Germans still have to deal with those who are sympathetic in a place, in fact the place, where such ideals brought total devastation, death and humility to the country. I think I can see their issue in just this one instance.
Belmont31R
10-25-09, 16:46
I think that to use this particular restriction in this particular country relating to this particular circumstance as an overall point of reference is particularly bad judgment.
Germans still have to deal with those who are sympathetic in a place, in fact the place, where such ideals brought total devastation, death and humility to the country. I think I can see their issue in just this one instance.
So I suppose we should ban Civil War reenactments and burn down all the museums?
So I suppose we should ban Civil War reenactments and burn down all the museums?
Six million innocents were slaughtered in roughly 5 years, not to mention all the multi-millions of other Allies lost. This for the Nazi ideal.
So I say again, in this particular instance, for this particular issue, I give them a wholehearted pass.
Just this once...:rolleyes:
When I was stationed there a guy in my unit ordered Mein Kampf to read. The German post people intercepted it, and he had to go down to the police station to answer why he had the book sent to them. The only reason they let him have it was prior to his Army days he had gotten a teaching degree and said he was using it for educational purposes. If you want it just to read you can't. Amazing considering that book was written almost a century ago, and they still treat it like that.
"Mein Kampf" was available at the Arthur D. Nickelson library in Berlin in the late 80s. It was probably there before it was renamed, but that's when I saw it.
I saw umpteen protests there during that time. Greenpeace, anti-nukes, anti-allies, and assorted others were left alone by the Polizei, even in proximity to mil areas. Wave a Nazi something-or-other, and they cleaned house.
geminidglocker
10-25-09, 18:30
I'm not a racist by any means, but I purchased some nazi style decals/helmet insignia that were extras from the movie "Saving Private Ryan",at a gun show. Notice I did not use a capital letter in the word nazi. My Grampa fought those bastards. I don't use capital letters when describing the races of folk that I have fought against either..... Does that make me racist? :confused:
Actually they shouldn't get a pass. My first wife was German and you would be amazed at what they don't teach their people. They are so ashamed of the past that they almost completely gloss over WW2. I was always taught that they way to prevent shit from happening again was to educate people so they see where they went wrong. Kind of like the lesson we should be learning now.
Six million innocents were slaughtered in roughly 5 years, not to mention all the multi-millions of other Allies lost. This for the Nazi ideal.
So I say again, in this particular instance, for this particular issue, I give them a wholehearted pass.
Just this once...:rolleyes:
The table kind of near the glass doors?
He also had other WWII items including a Japanese flag and smaller items from more than one country on both sides.
Iraq Ninja
10-26-09, 17:30
I bought a custom made cuff title that looks identical to the Afrika Corps cuff title but says Iraq instead. I wonder how it would look on my TAD tan jacket...
http://forum.axishistory.com/download/file.php?id=182076&sid=2f02ca3ddaebf41aab0df4a6742d3646
German military items have always had an appeal to military collectors. Maybe it is because the Germans had a unique approach to uniforms and badges.
It is the beef jerky collectors at gun shows that I worry about.
I'd wear it.
I bought a custom made cuff title that looks identical to the Afrika Corps cuff title but says Iraq instead. I wonder how it would look on my TAD tan jacket...
http://forum.axishistory.com/download/file.php?id=182076&sid=2f02ca3ddaebf41aab0df4a6742d3646
German military items have always had an appeal to military collectors. Maybe it is because the Germans had a unique approach to uniforms and badges.
It is the beef jerky collectors at gun shows that I worry about.
German military items have always had an appeal to military collectors. Maybe it is because the Germans had a unique approach to uniforms and badges.
This combined with the fact that there were countless permutations and changes throughout the war. Combine that with the fact the eastern front always seems to get more press and talk than the pacific theater, and that tons of German K98 rifles were imported.
Its pretty easy to get a decent condition K98 with intact waffens and swastikas for not too much money, good luck finding an arisaka with the mum on it without spending a good chunk of change.
That, plus there are a few gun owners who are dumbass racists. I don't much like it, but it is the truth.
Belmont31R
10-26-09, 19:26
Actually they shouldn't get a pass. My first wife was German and you would be amazed at what they don't teach their people. They are so ashamed of the past that they almost completely gloss over WW2. I was always taught that they way to prevent shit from happening again was to educate people so they see where they went wrong. Kind of like the lesson we should be learning now.
That is my reasoning as well.
However we do the same thing. How much of our past is taught in schools? We have a lot of dark instances too, and if you want to learn about it you have to do it on your own time.
If the reasons were strictly historical and financial, why don't I ever see similar quantities of Imperial Japanese items such as rising sun flags or Japanese medallions?
Though it may not be a major factor, part of it might be that though we fought a war against them, we still respected the Germans, especially their military. That they have a common heritage with us doesn't hurt. And I think people are attracted to the dominant war machine that they created—it's still one of the most impressive displays of power in human history.
The Japanese, though, weren't afforded the same respect. They fought without the chivalric ideals we expected, and their atrocities against war prisoners and use of suicide attacks were proof to most of us over here that they fought without the type of chivalric honor we understood. Much more of a clash of civilizations than our bout with Germany.
I would also guess that there's just less Japanese stuff around. It was likely easier to get souvenirs back across Europe than to pack them out from Guadalcanal.
Today I was able to attend a really large gun show in Puyallup, WA. The gun show was great and, while I wasn't able to find what I was looking for (a pelican case and MBUS), I did come home with one big question:
Can someone please explain to me the obsession, found largely in the 2nd Amendment crowd, with Nazi memorabilia?
Let me make a few quick explanitory statements:
1. I believe that people are FREE to be racist in this country as long as their racism doesn't encroach on anybody else's freedoms,
2. I believe people also have a right to own Nazi items and would never support a law making such items illegal.
3. I'm a native born Texan of Asian ethnicity but am NOT offended when I see Nazi items, I'm just curious.
I only ask because Nazi items have been at EVERY gun show I've ever been to and don't understand the obsession.
History and firearms history. The Nazis did contribute quite a bit when it comes to quality and collectible firearms.
The presence of Enfields doesn't indicate people who support Imperialism. The presence of Japanese swords doesn't indicate people support radical militarism. The presence of Civil War firearms and swords does not indicate a desire to split the nation.
The other factor is Nazi Germany existed for almost 10 years and the nazi party for longer than that. That combined with the fact that it happened recently when compared to things like the Civil War means there are tons of that stuff out there.
This is also why the History Channel (back when it actually concerned itself with history) seemed to show nazi related programs almost exclusively. It isn't because Joseph Goebbels was the programmer, it is because WWII (especially the European war) was the most documented major conflict we have a record of.
Additionally, we "won" the war. That means lots of that stuff came back with US vets as opposed to Nazi victors having a shitload of allied "war trophies."
Now granted, the 88 crowd does cross lines of interest and they end up at gunshows. This is also true of gang bangers but that doesn't mean the Crips are counted among what most consider "gun enthusiasts."
And for the most part the 88s couldn't afford to buy genuine nazi relics or firearms and tend to be looking for shit like a SKS. So to sum up, I think you are seeing something that really isn't there.
Actually they shouldn't get a pass. My first wife was German and you would be amazed at what they don't teach their people. They are so ashamed of the past that they almost completely gloss over WW2. I was always taught that they way to prevent shit from happening again was to educate people so they see where they went wrong. Kind of like the lesson we should be learning now.
This must be a recent thing.
All the Germans I knew spent a large part of their time in school learning all about what the Nazis did. Japan is the one who completely ignores history, to read their books they were minding their own business in the 1940s and without warning we suddenly dropped two atomic bombs on them.
And as another poster noted already, we don't learn much about our dark past. The Depression wasn't the worst thing going on in the 1930s, we (along with England) pioneered the psuedo science of Eugenics and a US citizen could be forcibly sterilized if a US court declared him indigent (undesirable), socialism was rampant and almost nobody knows about the Bonus March where WWI veterans were attacked by US forces led by Doug MacArthur, George Patton and Dwight Eisenhower resulting in 17,000 injured and 4 date.
Made Kent State look like a joke.
Won't even get into the shadier crap like us cutting a deal with the scientists at Unit 731 where we gave them immunity for war crimes that even most SS doctors wouldn't engage in in exchange for their data.
crusader4x
10-27-09, 03:02
So to sum up, I think you are seeing something that really isn't there.
As the OP, please know the following:
I never stated that I saw racism.
I never suggested that people who buy Nazi items are racist.
I never suggested that owning Nazi materials is equivalent to racism or even promotes racism.
As the OP, please know the following:
I never stated that I saw racism.
I never suggested that people who buy Nazi items are racist.
I never suggested that owning Nazi materials is equivalent to racism or even promotes racism.
I was referencing the "obsession."
I only ask because Nazi items have been at EVERY gun show I've ever been to and don't understand the obsession.
I wasn't saying you were calling people racists. I covered those topics only because many people do associate them with racists.
crusader4x
10-27-09, 13:15
I was referencing the "obsession."
You're right. Perhaps obsession was too strong a word for me to use.
I love how the other side has us all screaming IM NOT A RACIST! This is still America and you can buy what you want and believe what you want to as long as you don't kill anyone for it...........OK I know on some issues that is debatable.
The Obamanation has us all labeled racist because we own guns. So just quit fighting it and embrace the label they put on us and make it mean something else.
You're right. Perhaps obsession was too strong a word for me to use.
No worries.
I love how the other side has us all screaming IM NOT A RACIST! This is still America and you can buy what you want and believe what you want to as long as you don't kill anyone for it...........OK I know on some issues that is debatable.
The Obamanation has us all labeled racist because we own guns. So just quit fighting it and embrace the label they put on us and make it mean something else.
It's not that so much.
To people who have no interest in WWII firearms and the related historical items, seeing Nazi collectibles is no different to them than seeing a guy with a KKK booth selling robes and bumper stickers while handing out "white power" literature.
Same holds true for the survivalists booths you used to see in the 80s. To most ordinary gun owners the idea that a person might actually take up arms against their own government was horrifying and they often associated these guys with the klan and other racists organizations.
Hell during the early 1980s most gun owners actually believed they could NOT own a machine gun or silencer. And when they came across NFA owners, rather than being educated on what is and isn't legal, they simply viewed them as some kind of potential terrorist.
In the pre internet days most gun owners were hardly on the same page.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.