Improving the Beretta 92FS. What to add?

[Armati]

I am looking for a list of options to improve my 92FS. What are your thought? I have had a chance to shoot a lot other guy's upgraded M9's, Brigadiers, and Vertecs. I would appreciate any input on this:

Locking block. The most broken part on the M9. I am pretty sure the new style locking block has fixed this problem. Of course, you still have make sure the recoil spring stays the correct length.

Is it worth installing a heavier recoil spring? If so, what poundage?

I don't think I am a fan of the beefed up slides on the Vertec and Brigadier. I think it puts the light and handy M9 back up into the 1911 range with little value added. IMO.

I have mixed feeling about the M9 safety. I have considered installing the Brigadier decock spring but I also like being able to add additional safety to the gun when kids (or the untrained) are around. As I habit, I decock the gun and return it to fire after chambering a round so I don't think I will get caught short by this feature of the M9. I also instinctively run my finger over the loaded chamber indicator when in doubt at night.

I like the chrome lined factory barrel. Is there any reason to go to an aftermarket bbl? Will I really get that much more out of it?

I think I like the Cylinder & Slide hammer and sear combo (I question the cost). I know a few guys with this set up. Along with the OEM DAO hammer spring (or other reduced poundage spring) an M9 DA trigger can be made to feel like an old school custom S&W wheelgun. What the lightest poundage spring that can be used and still ensure positive ignition on military primers? And, is there a ratio of hammer spring to recoil spring that needs to be maintained to prevent excessive wear on the frame?

Anyone use the Buffer Technologies buffer and guide rod? Does it help or is it more of a gimmick? And, how long does that rubber bushing last?

How about the Wolff Springs INS trigger spring? I have never know the OEM trigger spring to be problem.

[kmrtnsn]

Springs and grip panels along with a good set of night sights. Take a look at the Ergo grip panels, they have a nice aggressive texture to them.

[ThirdWatcher]

The Beretta 92FS/M9 is good to go right out of the box. Your can add the Wolf INS trigger spring, but you'll have to buy a metal trigger if you do. Wolf also sells a steel guide rod (if yours is plastic). It's probably not any better, just different. Crimson Trace makes milspec laser grips for it (LG-402M).

I think I'd buy some spare magazines first. Beretta, MDS, and Mec-Gar (in that order) are the best magazines. They are plentiful and relatively inexpensive.

As for the locking block, I think Beretta is probably up to the third generation by now. Just inspect your pistol everytime you clean it. In my experience, it takes a lot of shooting to break locking blocks and trigger springs (and nothing prevents you from replacing them early, if it makes you feel better).

Beretta pretty much has the bugs worked out of the 92 series.

[NCPatrolAR]

The addition of the INS and "D" springs made my 92 much more shootable for me.

[ThirdWatcher]

I didn't notice a difference with the INS Spring I put in my 96. (There's no question it's unbreakable, though.) I forgot about the D Spring. You're absolutely right, I wouldn't have a 92FS/M9 without one. :)

[Armati]

Thanks all.

I was lucky enough to find a very nice agency trade-in that looks like it spent most of it's life in the armory. It appears to have the steel frame insert. The guide rod and trigger are metal.

A few other things I forgot to mention.

I have a Crimson Trace grip. The grip it's self is about perfect for me with bare hands. I still have to get use to it with gloves on because I am use to shooting stock M9's with gloves.

I like the additional capability of a laser. Any special tips for the use of a laser on a pistol?

I have several OEM Italian blued mags with the thick aluminum base plate. These are very nice and I have upgraded them with the later model nylon followers and Wolff extra power springs.

I have been looking at some 17rd and 18rd mags. Anyone know anything about these? If there are not any good increased capacity mags, I will just get some OEM sand resistant mags.

[Hound_va]

Just FYI... the OEM aluminum mag base pads can and do break when dropped.

[ChicagoTex]

You haven't told us what your purpose for your 92FS is. Defense/Carry or Target/Competition?

And the Mec-Gar 17 rounders have a good reliability track record.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Armati,

I have quite a bit of experience with the platform and having monster sized hands, have no problem managing the gun at all. I like to have a "D" mainspring in the gun to make the DA pull a bit nicer. The gun likes to be clean and really needs to be well lubed for heavy use. I noted from my time in a desert environment with it, that the lube will burn off in a single day, so keep that in mind.

Unlike a lot of folks, I like the gun, especially once you learn its quirks on handling TTPs and proper maintenance routines.

Laser grips are nice and if you decide you'd like to try a set of the Ergos, I have a set in my box of unused gear that I will make you a smoking deal on.

Larry Vickers wrote a great article on the gun several years back that I have in PDF format. Shoot me a PM with your email address and I'll send it to you.

Wayne

[Armati]

You haven't told us what your purpose for your 92FS is. Defense/Carry or Target/Competition?


Short answer - yes.

I like to mix and match my .mil and .com stuff for muscle memory and personal logistical purposes. If I find something really useful in training/practice I will take it to a formal course and/or deploy with it. I will not own anything that I cannot rely on in a combat zone.

I know a few guys that flat out deploy with racegun technology on their issue weapons. Of course, these days it seems that there is a lot of cross pollination.

[bobafett]

I like 'em stock right out of the box.

I run my 92F bone stock - factory strength springs and Mil-Spec sights Dot over Half Dot)

My wife shoots her 92FS Inox with a D spring and Hogue wrap-a-round grips... and she has small hands. I did repaint her rear dots, the Inox came with red painted dots.

I stocked up on mags a while back, you can find Air-Tronics and late model CheckMate mags at a decent price. Or get Mec-Gar 18rd flush or 20rd extended mags.

I wouldn't waste time on the INS spring personally.

[ToddG]

Locking block. The most broken part on the M9.

Not by a long shot. Most hyped breakage, maybe. In all the shooting I've done with Berettas, I've broken exactly one locking block. It's a wear part. Replace it as recommended and don't worry about it. Is there a chance it will break prior to the replacement cycle? Yes. There is a chance that any part on any gun will break prior to its replacement cycle. Life is hard.


Is it worth installing a heavier recoil spring? If so, what poundage?

No. All else being equal, a heavier recoil spring causes slower shooting. That's why competitive shooters try to get the lightest spring that will cycle the gun properly and not damage the gun. Having a too-heavy spring can also lead to accelerated wear on certain surfaces of the pistol.


I don't think I am a fan of the beefed up slides on the Vertec and Brigadier. I think it puts the light and handy M9 back up into the 1911 range with little value added. IMO.

My recollection is that the Vertec is half an ounce heavier than the 92FS, and the Brigadier is one ounce heavier.


I have mixed feeling about the M9 safety. I have considered installing the Brigadier decock spring but I also like being able to add additional safety to the gun when kids (or the untrained) are around.

There is no such thing as a "Brigadier decock spring." G-model guns have decockers. You cannot simply install a different spring. The slide and safety/decocker lever itself are both machined differently between the G- and F- models. If you want a decocker-only Beretta 92, you need to buy a 92G.


As I habit, I decock the gun and return it to fire after chambering a round so I don't think I will get caught short by this feature of the M9. I also instinctively run my finger over the loaded chamber indicator when in doubt at night.

The issue isn't whether the gun is loaded. Quite a few people inadvertently engage the safety when racking the slide to load the pistol or clear a stoppage. Part of this can be alleviated by using a more compatible grip on the slide when performing those functions.


I like the chrome lined factory barrel. Is there any reason to go to an aftermarket bbl? Will I really get that much more out of it?

A properly fitted aftermarket barrel can provide greater accuracy. In my experience, stock Berettas were always more than accurate enough that improvement wasn't worth the expense or risk of compromised reliability.


I think I like the Cylinder & Slide hammer and sear combo (I question the cost). I know a few guys with this set up. Along with the OEM DAO hammer spring (or other reduced poundage spring) an M9 DA trigger can be made to feel like an old school custom S&W wheelgun. What the lightest poundage spring that can be used and still ensure positive ignition on military primers? And, is there a ratio of hammer spring to recoil spring that needs to be maintained to prevent excessive wear on the frame?

I've never used the C&S parts. My Berettas always used Cougar F spring, which is lighter than the 92D spring. It still provided guaranteed ignition of M882. Replacing it every once in a while (10k rounds or so) was a good idea, however. The 92D spring is certainly a major improvement over the standard 92FS spring.


Anyone use the Buffer Technologies buffer and guide rod? Does it help or is it more of a gimmick? And, how long does that rubber bushing last?

I used one for certain projects, but not on most of my guns. The 9mm guns simply don't need it.


How about the Wolff Springs INS trigger spring? I have never know the OEM trigger spring to be problem.

The Wolff spring provides durability at the cost of shootability. I never really liked the Wolff spring. Installing the standard trigger spring is a bit of a PITA, but if you replace it every 5k rounds you're very unlikely to have it break on you, especially in a 9mm gun.

[Armati]

Todd, thanks a lot for your input. I was hoping you would chime in.

A couple of things...

What is most commonly worn part? Honestly, I have seen about 100 or more broken locking blocks an very little else. From time to time a bbl would get shot out or the exterior finish would get pitted and need to be replaced. Unfortunately, the Army does a very bad job at the preemptive replacement of wear parts and I think more recoil springs need to be replaced more often.

It was a 92G I fired. Some of the guys did a group buy on them. And I'll be damned but it is only about 1oz heavier than a 92FS. But, to me, it really seems heavier than that. That said, what do you gain from this beefed up slide?

Thanks again.

[mkmckinley]

First thing to do would be to get a "D" spring or the Wolff equivalent. That will make a night and day difference to shootability right there. There's also a fluff and buff (sorry but I can't find the link) that helps some.

You can also sent your factory frame into David Olhasso and for $75 or so he'll do a trigger job that involves more than just the hammer and sear. That's the route I took and it's hard to imagine drop in parts being nearly as good.

I tried the Ergo grips and the texture is nice but they seemed to add a little bulk so I went back to the factory ones. They need to be warmed a little with a hairdryer when you install them for a perfect fit.

http://www.jarvis-custom.com has a bushing barrel that might improve accuracy. I've never used them but have heard good things. They'll also do a custom fit to your pistol.

Unless you have the factory night sights you have to send your slide to Trijicon and they'll pin a tritium front sight over the factory one and match it with tritium rears. It sounds kinda fishy but reportedly works well and is durable.

[JonInWA]

I really like the Ergo grips; I find that they provide exceptional grippability and are very reasonably priced; see www.ergogrips.net. For magazines, I prefer Check-Mate's dry-film finished magazines; second choice are MDS (I actually prefer the MDS {a Beretta subsidiary} over Beretta magazines, as the MDS magazines have a metal floorplate. The current Check-Mate dry-film magazines seem to have the best of all worlds-a tempered steel floorplate and excellent fit and function.

I prefer the Trijicon sights that came as OEM on my 92D, as they provide an excellent, crisp night and day sight picture.

Only the grip screws and the barrel are blued as opposed to Bruiniton treated on most 92 exteriors; to prevent rust, I treat both to a periodic wipedown with Sentry Solutions' impregnated Tuff Cloth.

Berettas have more lube points than many other combat pistols. For general lubing, I prefer Weapons Shield; for some of the more inaccessible points, I use Dri-Slide, a dry film molybednum disulfide carried in a liquid solution (the liquid carried the lube to the appropriate places, and then evaporates, leaving a dry film of lubricant). Worth the price of admission is Ayoob's book "The Gun Digest Book of the Beretta" which does an excellent job of detailing out (with photos) the 92's lube points-far better than the Beretta manual, which discusses the lubrication points almost in passing, without effectively illlustrating them.

As Wayne previously mentioned, Larry Vickers' article in Shotgun News is excellent-as are any and all of Todd's comments.

My personal 92D is one of the relatively few pistols that I've owned/experienced that has never had any malfunctions whatsoever.

Best, Jon

[ToddG]

Todd, thanks a lot for your input. I was hoping you would chime in.

You know me, normally so shy with my opinions and all...


What is most commonly worn part?

Other than the recoil spring? Trigger return spring. Next would probably be the slide release spring.


It was a 92G I fired. Some of the guys did a group buy on them. And I'll be damned but it is only about 1oz heavier than a 92FS. But, to me, it really seems heavier than that.

A 92G weighs the same as a 92FS. The Vertec (which was available in F, D, and G) is half an ounce heavier than the standard gun, and the Brig (which was also available in F, D, and G) is about one ounce heavier than the standard gun.

92 = 9mm
96 = 40-cal

F = Decocker w/safety
D = DAO
G = Decocker only

Vertec = slightly modified slide providing dovetail slot for front sight; reduced and straightened backstrap; flashlight rail; other small improvements

Brigadier = earlier attempt at replaceable front sight with an even heavier and wider slide; frame identical to standard non-Brig models.


That said, what do you gain from this beefed up slide?

I'm assuming you mean a Brig and not a Vertec. The Brig slide gives you the ability to change your front sight. That's it. In the 9mm is provides no other benefits, and in fact many people find it is slower shooting because of the increased slide dwell time.

I'm biased, but the Vertec is the way to go on the 90-series guns IMHO.

[Failure2Stop]

I agree with Todd's assessment.

The locking-block breakages within the military were hugely reduced with the introduction of the improved locking-blocks, and breakages after that were due to the fact that our armorers were not doing the full upgrade but rather just replacing the broken locking blocks with new ones.

And I agree that the next most common breakages (at least with military M9s) was the trigger return spring. The action springs weren't a big breakage part since they were replaced once they failed the length test. The next most common (and not really all that common) was the right side of the decocking safety lever breaking off.

Most problems with the M9 were magazine related, other than manipulation issues with the safety.

There is a good article over at PT.com about the M9 for combat use-
Custom Combat Modifications in Iraq (http://pistol-training.com/articles/custom-combat-modifications-in-iraq)