View Full Version : What's wrong with this photo?
http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/afghan_10_26/a29_20814805.jpg
I think something may be slightly ajar on that M4. Just sayin'
neat pic...did that happen under recoil or am i missing something??
Bummer, he'll push for that later. He's rocking a Pmag :cool:
looks like the rail system(i am assuming KAC) has failed, and that you have a machine gunner not looking down his sight when engaging the enemy.
Looks like a 2 piece given the Delta ring still being there. Ends up being big heavy handguards that are more easily torqued and come loose. Especially if you throw a 203 on them.
looks like the rail system(i am assuming KAC) has failed, and that you have a machine gunner not looking down his sight when engaging the enemy.
I would guess the gunner isn't engaging the enemy and is covering up. Maybe protecting from return fire or his buddy's 203 launch?
-B
I think the machine gunner is thinking “would he stop firing that damn thing next to my head”.
What's on the muzzle of the m4?
I don't think that KAC rail will fit over a M203 mount in the first place.
I don't think that KAC rail will fit over a M203 mount in the first place.
Now that you mention it.
I think that is what we are all looking at.
The KAC RAS will accept an M203 I believe. But somehow his popped off. Multiple things had to fail to cause that though. :(
But am I wrong when I say that it seems the M203 is in alignment. Notice how all of the lines run parallel to the weapon itself except the rail. It almost looks like he forced the rail out of position in order to mount the M203.
rrpederson
10-27-09, 01:55
last time i put a KAC rail on an upper, there was a screw that goes into a metal finger, that locks the rail to the barrel nut. if im wrong please correct me. the screw is gone and the rail is coming off. man that sux.
But am I wrong when I say that it seems the M203 is in alignment. Notice how all of the lines run parallel to the weapon itself except the rail. It almost looks like he forced the rail out of position in order to mount the M203.
That is what it looks like to me.
That is what it looks like to me.
Me too.
Also, he's not firing the 203 in that picture, he's in recoil from the 5.56 (which seems excessive but maybe he's on auto or something) as you can see the empty case that's ejected and the bolt half open either chambering the next one or about too eject it too.
I'm trying to be optimistic and assume that something else is going on with the MG and he's NOT blasting away with his head tucked down.
Combat_Diver
10-27-09, 06:07
Mr. Kingsley-M4/M203 gunner appears to be firing a 3 rd burst, notice muzzle blast. Yes, Knight rail is coming loose. Question is when did the screw back out or was it ever installed? No visable target recognizable. Gunner seems to be hunkering down, weapon not inline and off shoulder, no brass, links or muzzle blast evident of firing.
CD
Mr. Kingsley-M4/M203 gunner appears to be firing a 3 rd burst, notice muzzle blast. Yes, Knight rail is coming loose. Question is when did the screw back out or was it ever installed? No visable target recognizable. Gunner seems to be hunkering down, weapon not inline and off shoulder, no brass, links or muzzle blast evident of firing.
CD
Now I see the third case all the way to the right in the photo.
...he's in recoil from the 5.56 (which seems excessive but maybe he's on auto or something)
Or he's shooting at something up on the hill?
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-27-09, 08:04
What's on the muzzle of the m4?
+1?
Looks like electrical tape on his FH?
Bless them both for being there.
What's wrong with this photo?
No dead terrorists.
+1?
Looks like electrical tape on his FH?
Maybe it is tape, a shoot-though dust cover for his muzzle.
Whatever they're doing, it looks like they're trying to put the hurt on some boogereaters so more power to 'em.
CarlosDJackal
10-27-09, 09:40
It looks to me that the M203 mount has interferes with the upper KAC rail assembly. There seems to be a long flat panel on the side that is in the way.
The 240B Gunner likes like he's trying to reload his gun.
Get some guys and stay safe!!
Also, he's not firing the 203 in that picture, he's in recoil from the 5.56 (which seems excessive but maybe he's on auto or something) as you can see the empty case that's ejected and the bolt half open either chambering the next one or about too eject it too.
Alignment of both muzzles looks like maybe they are firing on to the hill at 3 o'clock. Possible dirt puff over there from impacts??
decodeddiesel
10-27-09, 11:01
Maybe it is tape, a shoot-though dust cover for his muzzle.
That's exactly what it is. 100 mph tape.
As far as the RAS coming loose, I can all but promise you that the bolt holding the "finger" under the barrel nut is missing. Out of my whole battalion I swear I was the only armorer that made an effort to keep those bolt installed in the RAS.
The issue is that as soon as the soldier goes to clean the weapon they remove the RAS and loose the screw. :rolleyes: That being said I have seen the RAS come loose just like that under the recoil of an M203 firing multiple HEPD rounds when the screw is missing.
decodeddiesel
10-27-09, 11:05
The 240B Gunner likes like he's trying to reload his gun.
Pretty sure that's an M249 Brother...though it could be a MK48 as they are beginning to find their way to Army units in A-stan.
mk48's have the RAS for the forearm/heatshield. Looks like a standard 249 to me.
Odd that the RAS has to come off for cleaning. Any particular reason why?
CarlosDJackal
10-27-09, 11:24
Pretty sure that's an M249 Brother...though it could be a MK48 as they are beginning to find their way to Army units in A-stan.
Oops, sorry. I could not tell from that picture. I sit corrected. :D
decodeddiesel
10-27-09, 11:30
mk48's have the RAS for the forearm/heatshield. Looks like a standard 249 to me.
Odd that the RAS has to come off for cleaning. Any particular reason why?
Because the Military has this completely misguided philosophy for when, how, and to what extent a weapon must be cleaned.
"Is that dust under your rail?" :mad:
I guess the army doesn't have air compressors...
rifleman2000
10-27-09, 11:49
Pretty sure that's an M249 Brother...though it could be a MK48 as they are beginning to find their way to Army units in A-stan.
It is a 249 all the way.
Combat_Diver
10-27-09, 11:51
I guess the army doesn't have air compressors...
Sure the Army has air compressors......just not where they are at.
CD
Outlander Systems
10-27-09, 12:00
Because the Military has this completely misguided philosophy for when, how, and to what extent a weapon must be cleaned.
"Is that dust under your rail?" :mad:
White-glovery at its finest. :rolleyes:
rifleman2000
10-27-09, 12:07
Because the Military has this completely misguided philosophy for when, how, and to what extent a weapon must be cleaned.
"Is that dust under your rail?" :mad:
I have never once seen or heard of anyone being required to remove the top of a RAS for cleaning in over 5 years active duty time.
decodeddiesel
10-27-09, 12:43
I have never once seen or heard of anyone being required to remove the top of a RAS for cleaning in over 5 years active duty time.
OK, well I did. :confused: It's a big Army out there bud.
Ok I am no expert but a few things.
The weapon is cambering the next round. If you notice, the round is still running up the bolt face. It it was ejecting it would be higher on the bolt. Plus the recently ejected round is to close for the next round to be ready to eject. Useless but cool.
Could that be a cover that has melted around the flash hider? How hot can those things get before they go squishy?
Both weapons seem to be pointed at a up angle to fire over the Buildings we see in the background. Wither M16s have more muzzle rise than I thought or they are indeed firing high.
Not sure what is up with the Machine Gunner. That seems to be a bad place to have your face when firing belt fed weapon although he doesn't seem to be firing at that exact moment.
And that rail = WTF! Looks like it was just jammed down on top there.
Finally the most important thing I get from this photo? I should not Do this sort of thing when I haven't slept for 36 hours. :confused:
LockenLoad
10-27-09, 13:24
looks like the rail system(i am assuming KAC) has failed, and that you have a machine gunner not looking down his sight when engaging the enemy.
yea I was wondering why he was firing that way looks strange to me was not going to question it though as not a mil man and have never shot a m-?
LockenLoad
10-27-09, 13:29
how many meters away do you military guys think the hillside above the buildings is 450?
Outlander Systems
10-27-09, 13:35
The ARPAT looks like it's working.
rifleman2000
10-27-09, 13:36
OK, well I did. :confused: It's a big Army out there bud.
Well I didn't. And it is not a big Army.
decodeddiesel
10-27-09, 13:44
Well I didn't. And it is not a big Army.
ETA 2: Not worth my time.
how many meters away do you military guys think the hillside above the buildings is 450?
To my eye, that shot was taken with a wide-angle lens. I say this based on the relationship of the close objects as well as what appears to be telltale distortion at the edges of the frame (even if it isn't severe)
If my intuition is correct, the hillside would be closer than it visually appears in the image.
That said, the EXIF data isn't intact on the image so we can't confirm the focal length.
I guess that's an overcomplicated way of saying, "It's really difficult to estimate distance in photographs given our brain's assumption that the lens is rendering the relationship between objects the same way that our eye would."
US Army Specialist Kingsley (L), of 2nd Platoon, Baker Company, 2-12 Infantry Regiment, 4th Brigade Combat Team, 4th Infantry Division, fires on enemy positions as Private First Class Kicklighter (R) ducks behind his machine gun during an ambush at the village of Lanyal in the Korengal Valley, Kunar Province, eastern Afghanistan on October 20, 2009. (SIMON LIM/AFP/Getty Images) #
From Here (http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/10/afghanistan_october_2009.html#photo29)
rifleman2000
10-27-09, 14:04
ETA 2: Not worth my time.
It wasn't worth it the first time either. I was not calling you out, I was only offering my experience so that people did not get the impression that it was a widespread experience that Soldiers were removing KAC handguards to clean weapons. That was all.
We both had different experiences so now people are better informed.
I've seen the upper RAS rail do that when it's not locked in after firing 203 rounds as well.
That's probably what we're seeing here. No time to pop it back in in combat =/
is the top are of the delta ring deformed? maybe its the shadow of the RAS, or angle, but it looks a little bent downward. Neat photo, Bless 'um.
+1?
Looks like electrical tape on his FH?
Looks like a dust cap. They usually break apart and fall off completely, IME, but sometimes they melt/peel back like that.
Dirty McCurdy
10-27-09, 15:55
Looks like the M4 gunner has a after market pistol grip on his M4 as well. I might speculate and say its a MIAD or MOE based on his magazine choice.
Those ACOG's are defiantly in there element in that country
That's exactly what it is. 100 mph tape.
As far as the RAS coming loose, I can all but promise you that the bolt holding the "finger" under the barrel nut is missing. Out of my whole battalion I swear I was the only armorer that made an effort to keep those bolt installed in the RAS.
The issue is that as soon as the soldier goes to clean the weapon they remove the RAS and loose the screw. :rolleyes: That being said I have seen the RAS come loose just like that under the recoil of an M203 firing multiple HEPD rounds when the screw is missing.
Why would you remove the RAS to clean? I never touched my RAS in theater. As long as the barrel was clean and my bolt was wet I was GTG for missions outside the wire. I could care less if part of my RAS was dirty. I could be wrong but this is just my opinion. Since I a senior NCO, that means that my soldiers won't have to worry about the white glove mentality either.
decodeddiesel
10-27-09, 16:24
Why would you remove the RAS to clean?
CSMs can be real assholes, that's why.
ETA: I am glad you don't hold your soldiers to such a ridiculous and time wasting practice.
I guess I'll have to explain where I'm coming from. I spent my last tour in Iraq and in the Army as a SSG Squad Leader. I had no choice but to enforce a bullshit standard. Our BN CSM who had just come to our unit mid tour from the school house at Ft. Benning, got pissed because one of my soldier's weapons was "dirty" as in there was some dust under the RAS. I actually received a negative counseling statement from my 1SG because he was a push over who never left the wire and could give a shit less about the soldiers and NCOs in his charge. Both the CSM and 1SG were clueless as to what operating in a combat zone meant and made our lives hell. However, such is life in the 18th ABN Core, and such is part of the reason why I am now Mr. Bower and not SSG. Bower any longer.
It was a gross demonstration of the differences of a peace time Army and an Army at war. As a senior NCO you should completely understand.
SeriousStudent
10-27-09, 17:31
I did not carry a SAW, but I did wander around aimlessly with an M-60 (both the Delta and Echo 3 models) for a few years.
Perhaps SAW-toting PFC Kicklighter is looking down for his next belt of linked 5.56?
I had a bad habit of keeping an eye on spare barrels, barrel gloves, the next belt of ammo, etc. Of course, that was when I was a Lance Coolie, and had not yet achieved the exalted rank of Corporal, and Squad Leader.
After that, I had minions to carry the belt-fed hate-delivery devices for me. :D
And yes, prayers sent for a safe and speedy return home for both soldiers.
LockenLoad
10-27-09, 18:12
To my eye, that shot was taken with a wide-angle lens. I say this based on the relationship of the close objects as well as what appears to be telltale distortion at the edges of the frame (even if it isn't severe)
If my intuition is correct, the hillside would be closer than it visually appears in the image.
That said, the EXIF data isn't intact on the image so we can't confirm the focal length.
I guess that's an overcomplicated way of saying, "It's really difficult to estimate distance in photographs given our brain's assumption that the lens is rendering the relationship between objects the same way that our eye would."
gotcha thx for explanation
Kentucky Cop
10-27-09, 18:50
From Here (http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/10/afghanistan_october_2009.html#photo29)
My family and I just viewed these pictures from top to bottom. The house has never been this quiet well we looked and read about are men and woman serving. Unbelievable pictures and stories of sacrifices folks!
Speechless, Ky Cop
Yeah, it was pretty sobering to view those pictures. Words can't express the respect and admiration I hold for all who serve.
"Could that be a cover that has melted around the flash hider? How hot can those things get before they go squishy?"
My humble experience, 1-2 mags rapid fire, not full auto. I've had melted muzzle caps that looked that way.
Hope they gave more and better than they got, and return home safely.
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