Thoughts on Wilderness EMT courses? WEMT vs EMT?

[THellURider]

Hi,

I'm a regular guy. I shoot competitively and hunt avidly. I've been working in Europe for sometime now and am returning to the US in January. I may have some time between my return and starting my new position. I see this as an opportunity to check off a box on my bucket list.

I figure, that with my hobbies, to get some real world and legitimate training on this subject wouldn't be too bad an idea.

I'm considering the Wildnerness EMT course, such as what is taught by NOLS, or an EMT course at home.

I have some questions though.

1. Will I learn gunshot treatment in an EMT or WEMT course? (I realize I should contact the institution teaching my course about this, but I thougth I'd get some thoughts on it first.)
2. What are the big differences between WEMT and EMT to justify the cost?
3. Other than NOLS, is there any one else to consider getting WEMT from?
4. Would a "Tactical Medicine" course be a better choice to either option, or should it be a supplement?

Any other thoughts on the subject would be appreciated. Thanks.

[citizensoldier16]

Hi,

I'm a regular guy. I shoot competitively and hunt avidly. I've been working in Europe for sometime now and am returning to the US in January. I may have some time between my return and starting my new position. I see this as an opportunity to check off a box on my bucket list.

I figure, that with my hobbies, to get some real world and legitimate training on this subject wouldn't be too bad an idea.

I'm considering the Wildnerness EMT course, such as what is taught by NOLS, or an EMT course at home.

I have some questions though.

1. Will I learn gunshot treatment in an EMT or WEMT course? (I realize I should contact the institution teaching my course about this, but I thougth I'd get some thoughts on it first.)
2. What are the big differences between WEMT and EMT to justify the cost?
3. Other than NOLS, is there any one else to consider getting WEMT from?
4. Would a "Tactical Medicine" course be a better choice to either option, or should it be a supplement?

Any other thoughts on the subject would be appreciated. Thanks.

If you're just starting out in the field of EMS, or if you wish to take these courses purely for your own knowlege (ie, do not plan on being a practicing EMT or paramedic) I would strongly recommend that you start with the USDOT EMT-Basic course then take WEMT.

No pun intended, but you'll get the basics in injury dynamics and treatment modalities in the Basic class, then build on them in the WEMT course. The WEMT course is useful, but it teaches you one thing: improvisation. (How do you apply traction to a femur fracture without a traction splint? How can you carry a patient without a stretcher?)

Personally, having taken both classes, I believe I got vastly more knowlege out of the EMT-Basic course than the WEMT course. So, professional opinion...start with EMT-Basic then take WEMT if you're still interested.

To address your questions:

1) GSW treatment and stabilization will be offered in EMT-Basic.

2) In EMS systems, EMT-B is a requirement to advance to Paramedic...WEMT is just fluff and flair. Not saying it isn't a good course...but its not a required level.

3) http://www.remotemedical.com/Wilderness-EMT-WEMT

4) "Tactical Medicine" courses are usually reserved for EMT-Paramedics attached to Law Enforcement departments. These courses are usually difficult and require a paramedic level certification and knowlege-base prior to enrolling.

[ST911]

I have some questions though.

1. Will I learn gunshot treatment in an EMT or WEMT course? (I realize I should contact the institution teaching my course about this, but I thougth I'd get some thoughts on it first.)
2. What are the big differences between WEMT and EMT to justify the cost?
3. Other than NOLS, is there any one else to consider getting WEMT from?
4. Would a "Tactical Medicine" course be a better choice to either option, or should it be a supplement?

Any other thoughts on the subject would be appreciated. Thanks.

You'll learn basic trauma care in both EMT and WEMT courses, included GSWs. WEMT courses frame basic EMT skills in austere, remote, and outdoor context. The different vendors for WEMT training (NOLS, WMA, others) each have their strengths and weaknesses. Some employers will recognize the cred from one and not another. All learning is useful, but a tactical medicine class should follow the others. Start with a DOT EMT-B class as your baseline, and build from there.

Another great training outfit is GMRS. I hope to get on a Belize trip one day. http://www.gmrsltd.com/

Try their "A Short Course In Wilderness & Expedition Medicine Concepts." Good info. http://www.gmrsltd.com/2008ShortCourse.html

Learn everything you can, and get as much experience as you can as well. Join your local search and rescue service, or EMS/first-responder agency.

[THellURider]

Thanks for the feedback guys. To answer the question, Yes this is only for my own knowledge. I will not be pursuing a career as a Paramedic etc. Basically, it for if I end up in a situation when I might need the knowledge to save someone's life which seems like I'm at a slightly higher probability of needing. (Long story)

Sounds like I'd be better off saving my money and taking the basic EMT course and taking smaller, more specialized classes in the future as time and interest allows. I'll certainly consider joining my local SAR group if possible.

Thanks again.

[Gutshot John]

Unless you're planning on being/volunteering as an EMT, there really is no reason to take an EMT level class. It often requires more time than most people with jobs and families typically have. Typically to join a SAR group you have to have some experience, they don't just take anyone.

First Responder and Wilderness First Responder are probably better options for most folks. Yes you'll learn a bit about GSWs.

That said being a volunteer EMT will gain you some invaluable experience applying your skills.

[THellURider]

Unless you're planning on being/volunteering as an EMT, there really is no reason to take an EMT level class. It often requires more time than most people with jobs and families typically have. Typically to join a SAR group you have to have some experience, they don't just take anyone.

First Responder and Wilderness First Responder are probably better options for most folks. Yes you'll learn a bit about GSWs.

Well, it seems like I'd be losing a lot. It's been a while since I've taken the FR course for my PADI Rescue Diver cert but it really didn't seem much more comprehensive then "Make sure the victim isn't still in danger and call 911".

[Gutshot John]

Well, it seems like I'd be losing a lot. It's been a while since I've taken the FR course for my PADI Rescue Diver cert but it really didn't seem much more comprehensive then "Make sure the victim isn't still in danger and call 911".

I think it's changed quite a bit. I'm quite sure I've taught hemorrhage control to FR classes.

[THellURider]

I think it's changed quite a bit. I'm quite sure I've taught hemorrhage control to FR classes.

So you don't think I, as some one who only wants it as personal knowledge, would gain much from the extra investment in time and money?

Perhaps, in terms of repetition and experience using it?

[Gutshot John]

So you don't think I, as some one who only wants it as personal knowledge, would gain much from the extra investment in time and money?

Perhaps, in terms of repetition and experience using it?

I certainly think there is value to it. In fact I think working in EMS is the closest you can get to the experience of a gunfight without actually getting shot at.

However be sure you have the time to invest because you're talking about exponentially more effort. Even as a volunteer doing one shift a week, you're unlikely to get the same experience you would as if it were a job, doing volunteer SAR is likely even less practical experience.

It's not all drama. Most of it is tediously boring.

[vaspence]

I was in the same place as you earlier this year. Shoot and hunt a lot and felt the need to add first aid skills to the tool box. I attended a SOLO WFR course in May, thoroughly enjoyed it and learned a lot. I wrote a review of it on this forum. In August I went to SOLO's campus in New Hampshire and completed my WEMT. SOLO allows people who have taken their WFR course to attend the last two weeks of their WEMT course (called the WEMT II, within a year of attendance). Excellent choice on my part I think. 90% of the WEMT II course is street or front country EMT stuff. Following completion of the course which includes 10 hours of clinic time divided between 2 locations (you have about 6 places to choose from) you take the New Hampshire practical exam and then the NREMT-B. I took the NREMT-B after being back home for 5 days and passed. I had to study my ass off most evenings at SOLO and also for a couple of days when I got home. The guys at SOLO explained quite bluntly to the few of us WEMT II candidates that we would need to swim hard and study to pass. So I'm an NREMT-B and WEMT via SOLO. I am currently not doing anything with it, haven't applied for state license, etc. I have attended a couple of training sessions with the local guys but don't know that riding the bus is for me. But I am a lot more confident in my ability to help in an emergency than I was this time last year.

At the end of the day it's up to you. If you have the cash SOLO, NOLS(WMI) or WMA offer courses that are great and you can knock it out quick. And despite the past bickering they all are inner related and friends. My SOLO WFR instructor was a NOLS instructor also. I chose SOLO because it worked with my schedule, had one of the other programs worked with my timeframe I'd have attended with no worries. I can also say the instructors I met all stay very involved in EMS in their locales and were active in research, etc.

The local EMT programs are very affordable but at least around here they fill up fast, take a lot longer and slots are hard to get for people not affiliated with a squad. (I don't have any problem whatsoever with that) These guy/gals are also getting a lot more experience by actually being involved.

FWIW we did cover gunshot wounds in the SOLO WEMT course.

Hope you can make sense of the ramble,

Spence

[fencipede]

I took a Wilderness First Responder (WFR) course through NOLS several years ago when I was working in the outdoor industry at the time. The course was outstanding and I can't recommend it enough to folks who spend time any amount of time away from immediate access to medical treatment. 80 hrs of training versus the usual 10 or less hour first aid course, but not as time or financially intensive as an EMT course.

You'll get a great blend of scenario based training along with the classroom instruction, and the instructors are outstanding as well. One of mine was 20+ year Marine Corps vet, and was definitely able to provide insight into gun shot wounds etc.

If you're returning to Texas like your profile indicated, UT Austin usually hosts a NOLS WFR course each January that's open to the public.

[ST911]

Food for thought, re: time and costs... A typical DOT EMT-B course will be ~100-120 hours, and is spread out through something approximating a semester. Most WFR and WEMT classes from major providers are between 40 and 80 hours and are done in one shot.

When we contracted for a WEMT class from WMA, it was ~$600 per student. The EMT-B classes are typically ~$200-$400 dollars, depending on vendor.

Point: The WEMT training may be fewer hours, but it may also be a harder chunk of training to bite off. It may very well be more expensive too.

Consider carefully what you have to work with for time and money, and get the most and best training you can afford.

[THellURider]

If you're returning to Texas like your profile indicated, UT Austin usually hosts a NOLS WFR course each January that's open to the public.

No kiddin? GREAT first post. :D

THanks for everyone's feedback. We'll have to see how much time I have. Seems like I should look at the WFR course or do a one month EMT course at the local college.

[eng208]

I certainly think there is value to it. In fact I think working in EMS is the closest you can get to the experience of a gunfight without actually getting shot at.

However be sure you have the time to invest because you're talking about exponentially more effort. Even as a volunteer doing one shift a week, you're unlikely to get the same experience you would as if it were a job, doing volunteer SAR is likely even less practical experience.

It's not all drama. Most of it is tediously boring.

Uhh, sometimes you and your partner do get shot at, and it is not uncommon to see ambulances with a few bullet holes in them.:eek:

I agree with everything he said. Been in emergency services full time as a career for 15 years.

[THellURider]

Uhh, sometimes you and your partner do get shot at, and it is not uncommon to see ambulances with a few bullet holes in them.:eek:

I agree with everything he said. Been in emergency services full time as a career for 15 years.

Ya, I really appreciate you all's feedback. I realize I'll not be at the experience or knowledge level of even a newbie paramedic and I can accept that. Like I said, this is for personal reasons and I think it would be better than the level where I am at now which is a little above zero. So even without a ton of experience, the knowledge could potentially save my life or that of someone else.

It seems like one of the primary differences between EMT and WEMT courses is the extraction techniques etc to be used in the back country. While this would also be good for me and my hunting I think it could also be overkill. Both the WEMT and EMT courses I've found take a month to complete. WEMT is a month in the backcountry; EMT is a month in a classroom in Dallas (generalisations). From a time perspective, and given my intended use for it; perhaps the WFR course would be best for me. If I want to increase my knowledge on certain aspects I'm sure I could find someone to help me out (My dad's a surgeon).

[vaspence]

Food for thought, re: time and costs... A typical DOT EMT-B course will be ~100-120 hours, and is spread out through something approximating a semester. Most WFR and WEMT classes from major providers are between 40 and 80 hours and are done in one shot.

From my experience classroom time for the WFR course was 72 hours. For the WEMT II it was another 95 classroom hours plus 10 hours in clinicals. Total time 177 hours. Of course there were additional hours spent practicing with classmates in the evening after class.

The WEMT class was pretty much the same hours except they were at SOLO for a full 4 weeks.

The courses offered at NOLS, WMA and SOLO are around 70-80 hours for WFR and 180 hours for WEMT.

Just saying

Spence

[Camerin]

Look up SOLO (stonehearth open learning opertuneties). I did my WEMT through them many years ago and it was an awesome course.

[Gutshot John]

~120-180 hours is the typical length of a full-time undergraduate semester. (4-5 classes - 1 hour each session, 3x a week for 15 weeks) so that represents a significant chunk of change in terms of time. Admittedly condensing a class that lasts about 4 (45 hour) weeks is possible, but that's still a lot of vacation time from work as well as actual time studying.

From my understanding the prime virtue for the OP in getting into EMT/EMS is the clinical experience that he will get from live patients which I agree is pretty valuable but requires even more time than the class to achieve. If there isn't going to be any patient interaction I don't see the virtue of going full EMT/WEMT for most people but if you have the time and inclination it certainly couldn't hurt.

Just reviewing the WFR course at SOLO's website makes me think it would probably be more than sufficient for most here. If you want to get a bit more intense a standard EMT-B/I course coupled with a WFR course should give you most tools you need.

[Eric Kozowski]

I've done WMA's WAFA course and am doing the WFR upgrade in December. I'll try and post an AAR here. The WAFA course was great.

[usaffarmer]

National EMT-B and state EMT-B require a 120 hour course. The class Im taking was $1200 plus books. Thats at UAA up in the unfreezing north. If you dont do anything with the certs, at least you can have the knowledge in your bag of tricks.

[dhrith]

Took the EMT-B class at the community college few years back and I can heartily say it was worth my time. Was $600 but think it's up to $800 now. Only regret was not following up with the state cert in case I need or want it for a job later in life. I hear they eased up testing requirements quite a bit since then though. Doing clinicals is usually gonna turn up some stories here and there. Seeing the life of the firemen was just as interesting as working in the ER. Well, not really, but we got to watch alot of TV and ate really good. ;p


I jest, I jest. ;p

Actually I got one good incedent from each. Good luck.