View Full Version : Magpul BAD lever review.
Alaskapopo
10-28-09, 00:25
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Semi%20auto%20rifles/ColtwithDescription.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Semi%20auto%20rifles/ColtLeftside.jpg
I purchased some BAD levers for all my AR's and installed them yesterday. I took them to the range on my patrol rifle today so I could get test it out before returning to work with new equipment. Anyway my fastest reload with the BAD lever and the coupled mags was 1.59 my average was 1.8. The drill I was doing involved having a target at 15 yards. I had one round int he chamber and an empty magazine. I would fire one shot reload and fire 1 more round. I did this about 60 times. My average times without using the BAD lever were .5 to one full second slower.
I then ran some type three malfunction drills (double feeds fails to extract etc,) I was able to get my clearing drill down to 8.1 seconds. Without the lever it used to be around 10. The drill being start with a induced type three malfunction and clear it and fire 2 rounds at the target. I did this 10 times. I would have done more by my hands were getting raw from all the reloading. I then shot 3 department rifle qualifications and was out of ammo at that point. I went through about 350 rounds or so. No malfunctions at all. I am sold on the BAD lever and on the Firebird 20 round 30 round coupler for my patrol gun. The 20 round mag allows it to fit in my rifle case and in the rifle rack. Yet you have a 30 round mag as a spare right on the rifle.
Pat
usaffarmer
10-28-09, 02:03
The bad lever that Pat is letting me use, is working well on my rifle with a redi-mag attached. It will just take some getting use to on the rifle. But overall I do really like it.
Thank you Pat!!
-Allen
Alaskapopo
10-28-09, 02:18
Glad its working out. I really like this product.
pat
You should invest in quality gear...the citizens deserve it.
:p
Sweet set up, and very well thought out for your needs. When you say your mag changes were .5 to 1 sec slower w/out the BAD, that is still using the mag coupler correct?
Alaskapopo
10-28-09, 13:11
You should invest in quality gear...the citizens deserve it.
:p
Sweet set up, and very well thought out for your needs. When you say your mag changes were .5 to 1 sec slower w/out the BAD, that is still using the mag coupler correct?
Yes with and without. I also tried reloading with a spare mag of my belt. It was slower and the difference was still .5 to 1 second slower.
Pat
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-28-09, 13:23
Nice review with objective data. The only thing different that I have noticed is that the BAD is loose and wobbly in my DPMS stripped lower and not wobbly in my CMMG stripped lower. The DPMS still works, it just has about a 1/4+ inch back and forth wobble to it on the strong side tip. I guess I should add that it is a WOA parts kit in the DPMS, which is where the loose fit is inducing the wobble. The wobble is not really noticable with just the bolt catch, but the BAD magnifies the slop between the bolt catch and the lower.
Alaskapopo
10-28-09, 22:25
Good news. I demonstrated the BAD lever to my chief and he approved me to order them for all the departments rifles. That and Firebird magazine couplers.
Pat
Good news. I demonstrated the BAD lever to my chief and he approved me to order them for all the departments rifles.
Pat
Nice, any of mine would sit there with their eyes glazed over.... :D
Random question regarding the operation of the BAD. How would one clear a Type 3 with one hand? Is there enough lever sticking out to kick?
Alaskapopo
10-29-09, 16:21
Random question regarding the operation of the BAD. How would one clear a Type 3 with one hand? Is there enough lever sticking out to kick?
All you do is press up on the lever as you pull the bolt back this locks the bolt to the rear. Then you strip the magazine, rack the bolt 2 to 3 times insert the mag and then rack it again. Your firing hand never leaves the pistol grip.
Pat
All you do is press up on the lever as you pull the bolt back this locks the bolt to the rear. Then you strip the magazine, rack the bolt 2 to 3 times insert the mag and then rack it again. Your firing hand never leaves the pistol grip.
PatGotcha. I understand the normal Type 3 clearance, but I was trying to figure out the process one-handed as if injured. I'm not sure if you would just step on the BAD from the left side of the gun, or try to kick the lever up from the right.
Alaskapopo
10-29-09, 20:39
Gotcha. I understand the normal Type 3 clearance, but I was trying to figure out the process one-handed as if injured. I'm not sure if you would just step on the BAD from the left side of the gun, or try to kick the lever up from the right.
I would simple draw my pistol. One handed malfunctions with a rifle. I must admit I have never done that my training is lacking in that area. I have done it quite a bit with handguns but not with rifles.
Pat
Good news. I demonstrated the BAD lever to my chief and he approved me to order them for all the departments rifles. That and Firebird magazine couplers.
Pat
Alaska - when your department makes the purchase, let me know if you have any problem tracking them down. We prioritize all military and law enforcement orders, so I should be able to help you guys out.
I will also keep that in mind Nick. I am in the works of attempting to get them purchased for our unit. Gotta get past the bean counters.
Edit - and btw, thanks for the OD UBR's. Bout time. ;)
I will also keep that in mind Nick. I am in the works of attempting to get them purchased for our unit. Gotta get past the bean counters.
Edit - and btw, thanks for the OD UBR's. Bout time. ;)
Let me know on the BADs! And OD UBRs? Are you MIL or LE?
Alaskapopo
10-30-09, 00:57
Alaska - when your department makes the purchase, let me know if you have any problem tracking them down. We prioritize all military and law enforcement orders, so I should be able to help you guys out.
We made the order from Brownells today. We are small a 10 man department so we are not a huge customer. You guys make great stuff but the BAD lever in my opinion is the best thing to hit the AR world since flat tops and optics.
Pat
RetreatHell
10-30-09, 03:04
All you do is press up on the lever as you pull the bolt back this locks the bolt to the rear. Then you strip the magazine, rack the bolt 2 to 3 times insert the mag and then rack it again. Your firing hand never leaves the pistol grip.
Pat
Ha!! Isn't it crazy just how simple that sounds when typing it?
I worked several double feeds last week while training at night... my God it's insane just how much the darkness and cold complicate things like working double feeds!!
It was the first time I had worked a more serious malfunction at night, other than just having to do a quick tap, rack, bang when the gun goes "click." Also, halfway through it I realized I had left my X300 light on and my weapon was acting as a mini spotlight. I hadn't even thought of that before then. I've learned a lot the past 2 times I trained at night. I would encourage everyone to train at night, and in adverse conditions too. We're all guilty of waiting for that perfect sunny day before we head out to the range to do some training with our friends, but we can really benefit from changing things up occasionally.
Anyhow, the BAD Lever has made life much easier for me in 2 different carbine classes now, and many "recreational" training sessions. I love this little thing and it's on all but one of my lowers now! Awesome job, Magpul! Keep up the great work and please continue churning out more amazing products!!
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/RetreatHell/BCM%20SBR/BCM%20Middy/IMG_1078.jpg
Semper Fi,
Paul
Let me know on the BADs! And OD UBRs? Are you MIL or LE?The OD UBR isn't a typo from where I ordered, is it? Or are you just wondering why OD? If so, we are LE. As for the BAD's, maybe not a huge purchase, but we are a 50 man, full time, dedicated SWAT unit. I have been toying with similar devices for a few years now, but 4 of us have been running your version and doing our own T&E (on our dime) since their release. No functional issues from any of us. We have 75 M4A1's in our arsenal and I would be looking at that many BAD's. Our units admin is on board, but getting funding approval from up the food chain, for this type of an item, is another story.
Littlelebowski
10-30-09, 12:02
Good review. Thanks, AP.
Thanks for the big picture. Looks like plenty of real estate to stomp on the left side.
Alaskapopo
10-30-09, 15:56
Good review. Thanks, AP.
Thanks for the comment. I think Mag pul has a real winner with this product.
Pat
Pathfinder Ops
03-28-11, 19:12
I have a RRA LAR 15 with a RediMag and a BAD Lever and this set up works flawlessly. I have put about 8K rds through this rig in ALL manner of weather from -10f through 100f. In rain and in the sand........ I have not had a failure yet that is relative to the BAD Lever......
ON THAT GUN.
However, I also have an M&P 15R chambered in 5.45 and set up exactly the same way. This gun ran very well until I put the BAD Lever on it.
Immediately after I put the BAD Lever on I was experiencing frequent (at least 1 if not 2 or more) situations where the bolt locked to the rear (as if the mag was empty) PER MAGAZINE!!!!!:eek::eek::eek:
As soon as I took the BAD Lever off this stopped happening.
Now I'm no "gunologist" (my wife's term not mine) so I haven't quite figured out why this was happening.
All I know is that the gun shoots fine with it off. Put it on and the bolt locks to the rear frequently.
The BAD Lever is not the factor since it works fine on a Bushmaster XM15 I own.
So Is it the M&P? Or does it have something to do with the 5.45 caliber?
ANY IDEAS?
I like the BAD Lever concept and I really am pleased with it's function on my RRA and a standard issue Bushmaster XM15.
Alaskapopo
03-28-11, 20:45
It could be weak magazine springs. I use Bads on all my AR's have have yet to experience a bolt failing to lock back.
Pat
Never had a problem with it on any of mine.
I put together a BCM middy for a buddy, and he wanted a BAD so we added it on. We too started having problems with locking open on empty mag. But as I was diagnosing the problem, noticed that there appeared to be some drag when charging. I ended up replacing the receiver extension, spring, and buffer with a Colt set. The first one was a no name set from a package deal. Not one problem since. I was surprised, as I was quite convinced it was the BAD causing this. I built an almost exact BCM middy for another friend, only used a BCM stock set this time, and not one issue with the BAD.
I ran BADs on my three LMT lowers for a while, but I've finally given up on them. They make manipulations easier, but I couldn't get any of them to stay tight. After a couple mags they were always flopping around. Also, bolt lockback on the last round became very unreliable with my 16" BCM mid length...This upper/lower combo was 100% before the BAD.
It's a neat idea, but in the end it didn't end up working out for me.
BCM? I am unfamiliar with this term. Could you detect any difference between the old group & the Colts? I have tried different springs & buffers, but same tube.
BCM = Bravo Company Manufacturing.
Yes, I could tell the difference once using the Colt tube...the other one must have been out of spec.
I ran BADs on my three LMT lowers for a while, but I've finally given up on them. They make manipulations easier, but I couldn't get any of them to stay tight. After a couple mags they were always flopping around. Also, bolt lockback on the last round became very unreliable with my 16" BCM mid length...This upper/lower combo was 100% before the BAD.
It's a neat idea, but in the end it didn't end up working out for me.
I had the same occasional lockback trouble.....really wanted to like the thing but can't have that. As mucj as I liked the function, no more BADs for me.
Cagemonkey
03-30-11, 08:52
I had some lock back problems also. I contemplated trying some extra power mag springs but decided to remove the BAD's.
Following all the discussions & analysis of the mechanical system of the bolt catch, I decided to cut some coils off the bolt catch spring so that the magazine followers/springs will be able to fully & quickly activate the catch/B.A.D. Lever assembly following the last round of a magazine.
Before cutting, I measured the force of the springs' peak force by pushing on the "nub" side of the catch lever with the bolt fully retracted. My two lowers measured about 2.5 & 3 pounds of force to fully "activate" the catch. I cut two coils off of each spring. They now measure 1 & 1.5 pounds for activation. There is still compression, so the risk of inadvertent/premature locking is low.
I figure that cutting the springs is the easiest (& cheapest) option instead of messing with the buffer & its spring (which I already did), and replacing magazine springs/followers. I have extra catch springs on order in case I cut too much.
I will take the two rifles to the range & test them out with the B.A.D. Lever to see if the bolt will lock back following the last round. I will post the results.
If this works :), I will send a message to Magpul to include this information in the B.A.D. Lever literature as a recommendation. If this fails, I will most likely abandon the B.A.D. Lever. :sad:
There are too many posts on this & other websites without any definitive solutions, so my hope is that this will fix the problem, or at least eliminate one possible "solution".
I tried this and about a dozen other things and it did not help on my 16" Noveske Mid-length.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=72919
Good luck though!
Dennis.
Heavy Metal
03-30-11, 14:07
I ran BADs on my three LMT lowers for a while, but I've finally given up on them. They make manipulations easier, but I couldn't get any of them to stay tight. After a couple mags they were always flopping around. Also, bolt lockback on the last round became very unreliable with my 16" BCM mid length...This upper/lower combo was 100% before the BAD.
It's a neat idea, but in the end it didn't end up working out for me.
Put a dab of RTV on the paddle when you install them. They will stay tight.
My B.A.D. is coming off as well, out of 22 mags I ran off today, only once did the bolt lock back. This was all PMAGS that have functioned perfectly in all other weapons... too bad, like the others, I like the functionality of it, just not reliable.
My B.A.D. is coming off as well, out of 22 mags I ran off today, only once did the bolt lock back. This was all PMAGS that have functioned perfectly in all other weapons... too bad, like the others, I like the functionality of it, just not reliable.
russell, I suggest that once you remove it you perform a similar test. make only that change and verify that is the culprit.
russell, I suggest that once you remove it you perform a similar test. make only that change and verify that is the culprit.
I'll be out shooting again tomorrow with the same mags and ammo. I'll post up here with results.
I've been running a BAD since Nov 2009 on all of my guns (2xPersonal Mega Lowers with DPMS LPKs, and 1x Duty MK18 Mod1 Upper on M4A1 lowers). It is a little loose on all of these guns, but I have had no issues operating it with or without gloves.
On my personal guns, I have run 30 round PMAGs, HK mags, and US issue mags with Green Followers all without any issues. I have had 1 x failure to lock back using a 1st generation 20rd PMAG. The same PMAG failed to lock back on a different AR15 without a BAD.
On my work gun, I have used the BAD through multiple training trips, and an 8 month deployment. I have been running 30 round PMAGs, with 1 x later generation 20 round PMAG that I carry on my war belt. I have had zero issues with the bolt failing to lock back when empty on any of these magazines.
I just felt the need to defend the BAD. I like it, and I have had no issues with the bolt not locking back that I can trace to it. If I had any of these issues, I would definitely get rid of it, as reliability is paramount for me.
I hope you guys that are having issues figure them out. If not, then definitely DX the BAD. For the guys that are thinking about trying the BAD, I would definitely recommend giving it a whirl before you write it off.
I've been running a BAD since Nov 2009 on all of my guns (2xPersonal Mega Lowers with DPMS LPKs, and 1x Duty MK18 Mod1 Upper on M4A1 lowers). It is a little loose on all of these guns, but I have had no issues operating it with or without gloves.
On my personal guns, I have run 30 round PMAGs, HK mags, and US issue mags with Green Followers all without any issues. I have had 1 x failure to lock back using a 1st generation 20rd PMAG. The same PMAG failed to lock back on a different AR15 without a BAD.
On my work gun, I have used the BAD through multiple training trips, and an 8 month deployment. I have been running 30 round PMAGs, with 1 x later generation 20 round PMAG that I carry on my war belt. I have had zero issues with the bolt failing to lock back when empty on any of these magazines.
I just felt the need to defend the BAD. I like it, and I have had no issues with the bolt not locking back that I can trace to it. If I had any of these issues, I would definitely get rid of it, as reliability is paramount for me.
I hope you guys that are having issues figure them out. If not, then definitely DX the BAD. For the guys that are thinking about trying the BAD, I would definitely recommend giving it a whirl before you write it off.
I love the BAD, I wish it'd work on this rifle, but I'll try it on some others as well.
thinking about putting a BAD any recommendations? it will go on a noveske recce basic riffle.
thanks in advance.
Alaskapopo
03-31-11, 00:44
thinking about putting a BAD any recommendations? it will go on a noveske recce basic riffle.
thanks in advance.
Get it I have Bads on 4 different AR's without any issues. I think those with issues are in the minority by far.
Pat
I also had lock back problems. I tried a variety of mags (PMAG 30, PMAG 20, & USGI). I decided to remove it. I fired about 2000 rds since then & no more lock back problems.
russell, I suggest that once you remove it you perform a similar test. make only that change and verify that is the culprit.
I'll be out shooting again tomorrow with the same mags and ammo. I'll post up here with results.
Well, took mine off my Mega lower and ran it through the same 22 magazines (mixture of GI, GI w/Magpul follower, and PMAGs) and had ZERO lockback issues. Functioned flawlessly with me doing my best to mimic the shooting I did the previous day. Then I put the BAD on another lower that I just put together (Palmetto State lower with cheap parts kit) and it worked just fine. :confused: Apparently my Mega with DD lpk doesn't like it....
I just read back over the thread looking for a correlation between gas system and failures. I saw a couple that specifically said they had failures with mid length gas systems, but most others did not specify. Is it more prevalent with mid length vs carbine length, or just totally random?
Jay Cunningham
04-11-11, 18:08
2. Stretch (or replace) the magazine springs so that the follower pushes up on the bolt catch stronger & faster to offset the B.A.D. Lever leverage.
This is a BAD idea...
Jay Cunningham
04-12-11, 00:47
Here's a thought: if you have a mil-spec AR-15 that worked fine up until you added the BAD lever... and now it isn't functioning right... maybe just take the BAD lever off instead of making all kinds of half-assed "modifications" to an otherwise perfectly functional firearm.
I agree with Jay. I am still surprised after all this time with all the people dicking with buffers, levers, this and that that they then act surprised when their weapon malfunctions.
If I add a different mag release or something and it causes a malfunction then I take it off and it goes away. I feel more than comfortable with my manual of arms.
These BAD widgets number 3 on my hit list....
1. Accuwedge
2. KNS pins
3. BAD levers
Holy smokes that is some mind pondering shit, I might be a short bus cruiser...however the two gents above me certainly are not. Jay's comment could not have been anymore dead on. I'm all for evolution, however their are so many pieces of kit currently made that has almost no place on ar AR it's crazy.
Magpul proved the widget genie is here to stay when they forwent thing's like the MOE + grip in order to meet the overwhelmingly large demand for the spectacular AFG # 2:eek:. I don't blame magpul for all these widget's but magpul seems to have produced quite a few recently including one monster widget called an ACR. They will always hold the title for producing my most coveted widget of all time...being the few Unicorn's/C Dolls.
I'm sorry, these widgets are perhaps my pet peeve esp. the f**king PINS:suicide2:
SNIP...
I'm sorry, these widgets are perhaps my pet peeve esp. the f**king PINS:suicide2:
But they look tacti-cool and you know, you could walk your pins out if you fired like 30,000 rounds in a day... maybe! All joking aside!
The accuwedge, I agree with you on that. The B.A.D. and the pins, not so much. Here is why.
No matter what you install in or on your rifle. You MUST test it out first. If it works perfectly and you have no reliability issues with your rifle, then who are you and I or anyone to say otherwise to any one about it. We can certainly offer our opinion about the products from a person standpoint, but to say that they have no place on an AR is more anyone's opinion than fact.
If the pins do not cause any reliability concerns or issues, then what is the harm. I don;t really care for them so I don't put them on my rifle. Obviously you (as well as others here) don't like them or see no use for them, so they do not put them on theirs. No harm no foul I always say.
Same goes for the B.A.D. There are plenty here who have them and it works perfectly. I am one of them. There are even some on this forum who's ground they walk on is worshiped by many members here that use the B.A.D. To say that it is useless is again anyone's opinion and not a fact.
But ultimately when we install something on or in our rifles, we must thoroughly test it before we decide if it is a keeper.
My $.02
I'm a very proud lefty so that is why I have such a problem w. bad levers...This product actually has at least some functionality for righties.
I cannot cede any on the pins though...however a cpl. of gents who I respect immensely decorate their lowers w. the pins..cough, cough..Duffy,.cough:D
I have no interest in using the BADs myself, but I have some friends who do. For their purposes, since they work, its fine. I also now other people who shoot competitively who find them invaluable. For seriuous duty? Probably not a good idea.
the BAD lever wouldnt work on the vltor vis upper it locked the bolt back like the rifle was empty so i had to ditch mine
I agree with Jay. I am still surprised after all this time with all the people dicking with buffers, levers, this and that that they then act surprised when their weapon malfunctions.
If I add a different mag release or something and it causes a malfunction then I take it off and it goes away. I feel more than comfortable with my manual of arms.
I agree completely.
RRShorty, I applaud your efforts and no doubt some may well find it great info, but there's just no way I'd set about strecthing my mag springs and cutting my bolt catch spring on a perfectly good rifle for the sake of a BAD lever. While your modifications may indeed make your BAD work....it may have other consequences down the road.
Trident - I also agree with your (s)hit list! :)
I put a BAD on every gun that comes through my hands and have yet to have any failures of any kind related to the product.
I do agree with Jay in that if I put one on a gun, had problems with it, and lacked the ability to diagnose, or did not readily see, a problem with it I'd remove it from my gun. It may be a BAD lever causing the issue, or it may be a BAD lever exposing an existing issue.
However, I would not simply go around swapping this for that, stretching this or that, etc. I just frankly don't have the time. Which isn't to say that I wouldn't pull the buffer spring and check it for length against a known good one, pull a few mag springs and check them against known good ones (especially if I only had issues with select magazines), etc.
I have made mistakes in the past and mis-diagnosed problems and therefore implemented incorrect solutions.
It is interesting to watch these discussions though. It is rare to find so polarizing a device. Some object without ever having laid hands on them, some object because of who designed it, some object because of who makes it, etc. Some "try" it with a bias going into the game, and some enter into it with open minds. Some of the former are converted, and some of the latter still decide it's not for them.
Me? I like 'em. I use guns with them and guns without them. I am cognizant enough of what I am doing to not have the issues going back and forth that I once thought I would. Ultimately what I found was that if my trigger finger doesn't feel the lever when it goes straight as part of the reload process, my other thumb is smart enough to find it's way to the paddle. This means absolutely zero impact on time, although the BAD emergency reloads are slightly faster.
jonconsiglio
04-12-11, 10:55
I'm a very proud lefty so that is why I have such a problem w. bad levers...This product actually has at least some functionality for righties.
Just curious... The last time you ran a BAD lever for an extended period of time right handed or at an advanced carbine class working malfunction drills, what was it exactly that didn't work for you?
Clearly, you must have had a lot of negative personal experience with one to find you don't like it, right? That's usually the only way I ever speak negatively of a product. I'm assuming the same here...
Personally, I've run them for a little while now on 2 KAC lowers and 2 standard lowers. I don't use them as a bolt release, just to lock the bolt to the rear. I've found they make working malfunctions much easier after a considerable amount of time doing it both ways.
The negative - recently, my gun took a pretty hard blow on a "curb" during a drill. I went straight to the drill from there not thinking anything of it and the bolt locked open every few rounds. It wasn't the first thing I thought of, but I soon noticed that the BAD had broken and was on the verge of completely holding the bolt catch open, but not enough for every round to lock back.
Now, I easily could have bent it back if the situation called for it, but just took it off instead as it could have made it worse or even broken the bolt catch.
When I posted about this, not to bash the product at all or Magul, but just to let others know what could potentially happen if you hit your gun at that awkward angle, Jimmy (Dozer) immediately PM'd me and sent me a new lever, which I was not asking for in any way.
Now, I've not heard of this happening before, so I imagine it was one of those one in a million instances. Also, all of my guns run perfectly with them and as of now I'm going to keep them on all but one of my guns for the time being.
http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee343/jonconsiglio/Misc/BAD-01.jpg
captshiess
04-12-11, 11:13
I tried the BAD on 2 of my rifles... decided I didn't like them and I also had last round lock issues on one of my SBRs. I took them off and I like it better. Trident I'm not sure your issues with the KNS pins. They don't cause a problem to be there and have prevented hammer/pin problems (especially on 9mm carbines). Maybe it is all in my head, but the trigger pull seems different, even better, after install too. Either way, that is one thing I do add to mine for aesthetics... Just the same as you cover your guns with about 12 different types of rail covers all stippled (your guns always look good too by the way).
It would be great if this could *not* turn into another KNS pin thread.
ETA:
link to help those that can't help themselves (http://m4carbine.net/gtsearch.php?cx=003496919632624929056%3Adhiwgm0hbaa&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=UTF-8&q=kns+pins&sa=Search&siteurl=m4carbine.net%2Fshowthread.php%3Fp%3D969449%26posted%3D1%23post969449#1041)
These BAD widgets number 3 on my hit list....
1. Accuwedge
2. KNS pins
3. BAD levers
...
Trident82,
While your insight into what we do is entertaining, it could not be more off the mark. If you have any problems with anything we make (function) please feel free to contact me or justing AT magpul.com for warranty issues.
Jimmy, Check your e-mail.... message sent.
I've been thinking about adding one of these to my rifles for a long time. From what I've read it has been mostly positive reviews. I might just have to try one out to see if it works for me.
recently, my gun took a pretty hard blow on a "curb" during a drill. I went straight to the drill from there not thinking anything of it and the bolt locked open every few rounds. It wasn't the first thing I thought of, but I soon noticed that the BAD had broken and was on the verge of completely holding the bolt catch open, but not enough for every round to lock back.
That's pretty much it... They make your bolt catch a more fragile system. I've read more accounts of the bolt stop tab breaking off than your deal...
But the B.A.D. is what it is... probably best kept in the competition realm. Definitely not as useless as KNS pins, but I wouldn't put one on a defensive use gun.
Sttrongbow
04-12-11, 14:18
I installed them on a couple of my guns and ran them for a few months. Wound up taking them off. They were kinda neat, but they made my guns unreliable in locking back on an empty mag. Ultimately decided it didn't offer enough of an advantage to justify their place on my guns.
Jimmy, Check your e-mail.... message sent.
Nothing received. Try a PM.
Trident82,
While your insight into what we do is entertaining, it could not be more off the mark. If you have any problems with anything we make (function) please feel free to contact me or justing AT magpul.com for warranty issues.
I'm not trying to be entertaining in the least....nor was I trying to hurt anybodies butt. I was simply doing what most of us do on the silly interweb which is sharing our opinion about things.
I would be lying if I said that I wasn't disappointed with Magpul's stuff the last 1-2 yrs. That said, I'm sure there are many who love the ACR rifles, AFG's, and BAD device, I'm just not one of them.
I run pmags exclusively, my favorite buttstock is the UBR in which I own 3 of, and my unicorn is a C Doll lower....those three things most likely will not change no matter how many widget's magpul decides to make in the future.
At any rate my apologies to anyone who was offended by my comments above and I certainly have no problems w. my UBR's and Pmags...so I want be blowing you guys up in regards to the actual product I buy from Magpul.
I'm not trying to be entertaining in the least....nor was I trying to hurt anybodies butt. I was simply doing what most of us do on the silly interweb which is sharing our opinion about things.
I would be lying if I said that I wasn't disappointed with Magpul's stuff the last 1-2 yrs. That said, I'm sure there are many who love the ACR rifles, AFG's, and BAD device, I'm just not one of them.
I run pmags exclusively, my favorite buttstock is the UBR in which I own 3 of, and my unicorn is a C Doll lower....those three things most likely will not change no matter how many widget's magpul decides to make in the future.
At any rate my apologies to anyone who was offended by my comments above and I certainly have no problems w. my UBR's and Pmags...so I want be blowing you guys up in regards to the actual product I buy from Magpul.
Trident82,
No one is butt hurt on this end. I hope it’s the same on your end.
I am glad you are happy with the products you do use. I hope they serve you well. If they ever cease to do so please feel free to contact me personally. I am in charge of manufacturing so I always strive to ensure that every single item that we make meets our quality standard. If you dislike the AFG, BAD Lever, ACR so be it. I would not expect someone to use every single item we make on their weapons because they may just not work for them. However, the AFG and BAD Lever continue to see quite well not because people “drank the cool aid” but because enough are out and people have tried them and liked them.
As far as the idea that the MOE+ is not being made because we are busy making the other products, you are wrong on this part. We have not made it because it has not met our quality standard during testing, simple as that. We perform extensive testing on all our products before release and during its life cycle to ensure they meet our quality standard before release and during its lifespan.
Again, I hope that the products that you do use serve you well.
But enough derailment, if you wish to continue this conversation feel free to PM me.
The tone of some of these posts is very odd.
P1: I don't like the F150.
P2: Why not?
P1: Because it's stupid, and gay.
P2: Yeah, but why don't you like it? What did it fail to do for you?
P1: Because I don't like pickup trucks in general.
walter34payton2002
04-14-11, 11:23
The tone of some of these posts is very odd.
P1: I don't like the F150.
P2: Why not?
P1: Because it's stupid, and gay.
P2: Yeah, but why don't you like it? What did it fail to do for you?
P1: Because I don't like pickup trucks in general.
I think that some of those guys are basing their opinions on what they have read here. Regarding the BAD lever, I would not run one even though I thought I needed one for a while. After reading the thread about the one that got hit and bent as well as the threads here and there regarding lock back issues with it, I just didn't feel it was worth it to chance it. I don't speak for anyone but myself here, but I have to assume that a lot of the guys who don't have experience with a certain gadget weighs the info provided here heavily. However, people should state why more clearly.
jonconsiglio
04-14-11, 11:48
I agree with that. It's one thing to come here and say "After everything I've read, I feel it not for me because....". When you get guys coming on here that have no first hand experience and say what a piece of junk something is and that it's a gimmick, it really takes away any credibility they may have had.
Any time I say that I like or dislike a product, I always will list my experiences with it and state that I do have some extended personal experience. Otherwise, I keep my mouth shut for the most part. Not only is it out of line to bash a product they don't have experience with, it also makes people question the next time they post about a product, good or bad.
For example, I see many guys try an AFG on my rifle and use an underhand grip instead of just placing their finger tips on the AFG and their palm on the side rail panel, then say they don't like it. Had they actually used it correctly, maybe their opinion would differ. For me, my hand would slide back a bit at first. Then, I used that A2 type nub (whatever you call it) and turned it around so the space between it and the front of the AFG was tighter. I started placing my index finger in front of the AFG, my middle and ring finger between the front and nub, then my little finger behind the nub. This was a huge difference. Then, I tried the AFG 2 and found that the thinner front allowed my fingers to just touch the side (the opposite side of where my palm is so my fingers just wrap around it perfectly) and get an even tighter grip on it. I've compared it to a Boresight AFG 1 and still find an AFG 2 without stippling (though I am stippling them now) works better for me. I know this thread isn't about the AFG, so excuse me on that.
It may have been my thread you saw about the broken BAD lever. Even after that experience, I still run them on most of my guns because it helps with clearance drills (which I regularly work both ways) mainly during competition, though I mainly work the actual clearance drills without the BAD. So, for the record, I'm not saying anything negative about it at all, just wanted to point out what could happen.
My only gripe with the BAD is the fit when installed, and the screw provided.
I've never had the two halves of the lever install perfectly flush. I assume this is due to varations in bolt catches on the market.
I've replaced the screw on mine with a cap head screw. Now granted, it does not sit flush, but you can get more torque on it. All of the wiggle I had on the installed BAD lever is gone.
I would like to see Magpul release a version with a perfectly mated bolt catch, so these two parts, the catch and the lever, were perfectly designed to work together, as opposed to an add-on.
ghostman1960
04-15-11, 16:56
My only gripe with the BAD is the fit when installed, and the screw provided.
I've never had the two halves of the lever install perfectly flush. I assume this is due to varations in bolt catches on the market.
I've replaced the screw on mine with a cap head screw. Now granted, it does not sit flush, but you can get more torque on it. All of the wiggle I had on the installed BAD lever is gone.
I would like to see Magpul release a version with a perfectly mated bolt catch, so these two parts, the catch and the lever, were perfectly designed to work together, as opposed to an add-on.
Mine was loose when I first installed it also. In fact I stripped the factory torx head screw trying to tighten it down. I fixed that with a button head hex screw from ACE. I was able to get it much tighter using that without fear of stripping it. Now it has no wobble on the bolt release paddle.
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz159/ghostman1961/DSCF2471.jpg
.
I noticed the Magpul supplied Torx wrenches in several of the BAD's I own, were not the correct size. I e-mailed Magpul about the wrench discrepancy and never received an answer.
From what I remember, Magpul included a T8 wrench that fit very loose. A T9 wrench was a perfect fit. I think this might be why I read a lot of people have had problems stripping out screws, can't get a tight fit, etc.
If you haven't ruined your screw yet and you want it to fit tighter, try using a T9 wrench.
But maybe it's just me...
.
I got my cap head screw from Ace. Couldn't find a pan head in the right size.
There may be something to the wrench thing. I can get a lot more torque with the cap head and allen wrench.
Why you...:D
My unbiased opinion is that the bolt catch was never designed to have something attached to it or to be bigger than what it is, and the spring was not meant to provide tension for something heavier than the original bolt catch. When a long lever is attached to it, its dynamics will change. Since all the rifles are a a little different, this change can have either so little impact as to be unnoticeable, or in the case where the BAD caused malfunctions, quite apparent.
We can see the same thing happen with the charging handle when it has big latch on it (hint: we're working to come up with a better one ;))
I'm a very proud lefty so that is why I have such a problem w. bad levers...This product actually has at least some functionality for righties.
I cannot cede any on the pins though...however a cpl. of gents who I respect immensely decorate their lowers w. the pins..cough, cough..Duffy,.cough:D
jklaughrey
04-16-11, 15:06
Why you...:D
My unbiased opinion is that the bolt catch was never designed to have something attached to it or to be bigger than what it is, and the spring was not meant to provide tension for something heavier than the original bolt catch. When a long lever is attached to it, its dynamics will change. Since all the rifles are a a little different, this change can have either so little impact as to be unnoticeable, or in the case where the BAD caused malfunctions, quite apparent.
We can see the same thing happen with the charging handle when it has big latch on it (hint: we're working to come up with a better one ;))
After having used the BAD off and on for this past year on my training rifle I have had a few instances of the bolt failing to lock back. Removed BAD and had zero issues. It is a good product and there is a significant market for it, I however feel IMHO that running this on a duty weapon would be risking a failure. On a Comp. rifle...sure party then. But I agree with Duffy, it isn't so much as the BAD failing but that the bolt catch mechanics weren't designed to have BAD attached for optimal function. There is of course with the BAD lever bar increasing chance of failure due to location and size when utilized in duty/rough usage
I've got one on my issue colt m4 and one on my personal lwrc. No issues with fit or function on the m4, I've been using that for over a year now without issue. On the lwrc it was causing the bolt catch to sit too high because of the extra width behind the paddle. I used a dremel and shaved some of the material away and remounted, no issues after that, been shooting it that way for a year now.
I had 100% with the bolt failing to lock back on my M&P today. It's odd too, didn't before with the bad.
I finally got a chance to shoot my LWRC and LMT/DD yesterday with the BADs on them. PMC Bronze and XTAC and Silver Bear, L5s and PMAGs, functioned perfectly with all combos.
I think a stiffer spring might fix this. If the spring is calibrated to handle the additional weight, so the weight/tension ratio is the same as the original spring with a bolt catch with nothing attached, it'd be as though the extra weight weren't there and the bolt stop wouldn't even know something was added to it.
For what it's worth, I found that with an empty pmag it works perfect, loaded, the bolt doesn't lock back. Looks like it's going to the parts bin for now.
I think a stiffer spring might fix this. If the spring is calibrated to handle the additional weight, so the weight/tension ratio is the same as the original spring with a bolt catch with nothing attached, it'd be as though the extra weight weren't there and the bolt stop wouldn't even know something was added to it.
I think you might be onto something here. If someone just puts a stronger BC spring in there, it might be too much resistance against the mag follower. Thereby causing it's own/another problem. But as you said, if the correct weight/tension ratio remained the same it might fix the lockback problems on that particular rifle.
madisonsfinest
04-28-11, 12:40
I would like to know what everyone is shooting that are having problems, and that are successful.
Has anyone been having issues with the BAD lever on a 6920?
jonconsiglio
04-28-11, 14:23
I would like to know what everyone is shooting that are having problems, and that are successful.
Has anyone been having issues with the BAD lever on a 6920?
2 KAC ambi lowers, Noveske lower, LMT lower and had one on a BCM lower. The KAC and Noveske lowers both had them with carbine RE's and the Vltor A5 RE.
None ever really failed to lock back on me though now that I think about it, a couple of my training mags that used to stop the bolt from locking back on occasion now don't on the lower that no longer has a BAD.
I can't sing enough praises of the bad lever. I have one on all of my AR's (7). Just to be able to do everything I need to without taking my hand off of the grip is just awesome, plus my reloads are MUCH quicker, which can be the difference in winning a trophy or your life.
I'm a big believer that if you have the right training and equipment, and can squeeze your time down, every second you can get is crucial.
pointblank4445
04-28-11, 17:51
I would like to know what everyone is shooting that are having problems, and that are successful.
Has anyone been having issues with the BAD lever on a 6920?
My 2 work/duty/class guns have 6920 lowers. I put the BAD on one to see how I liked it. A nice addition if you run a Redi-mod/mag. While I had no "failures" with lock back, I must admit I was breaking in some new Pmags at the same time. I should have tried using one of my busted-down HK mags. I did find some negatives that I haven't seen mentioned:
Any experimental part (like the BAD) is used on my secondary rifle, which is almost identical to my duty rifle. I spent a little over a week using my rifle equipped with the BAD. I'm of the mind that the index finger is for trigger pull only. The mag release I so ingrained in most of us that it is an afterthought. Throwing in another control for the trigger finger to manipulate adds complexity. Granted, my opinion is skewed towards LE type situations where complexity is a huge liability. On the other hand, If I were a die-hard comp guy hell bent on cutting reload time, this thing is a must have.
Also, when I returned to using my primary duty rifle in a training session, I found myself searching for a BAD lever that wasn't there...not good!
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