View Full Version : For the ****th time: download PMAGS - or not?
Sorry, everybody, but...what's current thinking about downloading your PMAGS to give the springs "a rest"???
spamsammich
10-30-09, 16:50
even unloaded, the springs are not getting a rest. I don't download. Some do. I don't think you will get a definitive answer on this.
Downloading and uploading mags is what makes springs weak. Do what you want, you can always buy new ones if they fail.
I believe downloading magazines is done to prevent problems with seating them. So, if you have issues seating a full mag, then download it one or two rounds. If you don't, then load 'em up.
I think it's more of an issue with GI-type magazines. I keep my PMags loaded with 30 and they seat fine.
I'm old school and always load my AR mags with 28. Do what you want. It shouldn't matter.
PRGGodfather
10-30-09, 17:37
P-mags may be loaded to capacity, as they can be inserted into a weapon with the bolt closed without any difficulty.
Many GI mags loaded to 30 rounds cannot be inserted into weapons with closed bolts.
Downloading to 28 does not save the spring.
Aren't PMAGS designed to seat on 30 rounds? Thought I'd read that somewhere once.
Also, springs don't rest. In static states, they do not gain or lose springiness. It's during the compression and extension that they "wear". Some here had to have taken Physics in college right? Remember spring constant?
Look at this post I put up:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=39949
I had a general question about keeping mags loaded, if it will weaken the springs. There were about a half dozen responses and everyone thought it doesn't weaken the springs. Look at the big post near the bottom, it has some good detail.
RetreatHell
10-30-09, 20:21
Trying to do a tactical reload with any mag, even a PMAG, loaded with the full 30 rounds can be a bitch sometimes. But sometimes they seat just fine.
I always load just 28 for consistency. I know for a fact that I will never have any problems seating a magazine when I have 28 rounds in it (or less, obviously, when loading partial used mags), as it will seat easily on a closed bolt every single time.
If you load 30 rounds in all of your mags, some of them may seat just fine on a closed bolt, while others may not seat no matter what you do or how hard you try and jam that bitch in there. It is because of this inconsistency that I just download all 30 round magazines to 28 rounds.
This is just my experience however, your mileage may vary.
Semper Fi,
Paul
John_Wayne777
10-30-09, 20:28
Sorry, everybody, but...what's current thinking about downloading your PMAGS to give the springs "a rest"???
The purpose behind downloading a USGI aluminum magazine is so that it can be securely loaded on a closed bolt. This is a function of how little wiggle room there is in the magazine. When you load a full 30 rounds in a USGI aluminum mag there is no more give left in the spring. The PMAG has the ability to load about another round and a half in when you load 30 rounds...meaning it will seat easily on a closed bolt...thus there is no need to download them.
The only downside to the PMAG is that it's sometimes easy to load 31 rounds in the mag. If you find that for some reason you aren't able to securely seat a PMAG loaded with 30 rounds, then download. I've personally never encountered that problem with PMAGs on any of my guns.
EzGoingKev
10-30-09, 20:40
Many GI mags loaded to 30 rounds cannot be inserted into weapons with closed bolts.
Downloading to 28 does not save the spring.
I live in a ban state and cannot legally own PMAGS so I have mostly older used GI mags that I have fitted with Magpul followers.
I only load mine with 28.
A GI mag filled w/ 30 rounds puts pressure on the bolt. You feel a severe drag when pulling back the charging handle. My concern is that if you performed a tactical reload that a full 30 round mag may induce a jam.
I think that most people in the know that only load 28 rounds in their GI mags share this concern and are not doing so in an attempt to "save the spring".
RetreatHell
10-30-09, 20:42
The purpose behind downloading a USGI aluminum magazine is so that it can be securely loaded on a closed bolt. This is a function of how little wiggle room there is in the magazine. When you load a full 30 rounds in a USGI aluminum mag there is no more give left in the spring. The PMAG has the ability to load about another round and a half in when you load 30 rounds...meaning it will seat easily on a closed bolt...thus there is no need to download them.
The only downside to the PMAG is that it's sometimes easy to load 31 rounds in the mag. If you find that for some reason you aren't able to securely seat a PMAG loaded with 30 rounds, then download. I've personally never encountered that problem with PMAGs on any of my guns.
Well apparently I need to start working out a bit more...:D
John_Wayne777
10-30-09, 21:08
Well apparently I need to start working out a bit more...:D
I find the fork lift works good for that sort of thing.
I could not get a 20 rd pmag to load on a closed bolt.
SWATcop556
10-30-09, 23:53
The purpose behind downloading a USGI aluminum magazine is so that it can be securely loaded on a closed bolt. This is a function of how little wiggle room there is in the magazine. When you load a full 30 rounds in a USGI aluminum mag there is no more give left in the spring. The PMAG has the ability to load about another round and a half in when you load 30 rounds...meaning it will seat easily on a closed bolt...thus there is no need to download them.
The only downside to the PMAG is that it's sometimes easy to load 31 rounds in the mag. If you find that for some reason you aren't able to securely seat a PMAG loaded with 30 rounds, then download. I've personally never encountered that problem with PMAGs on any of my guns.
I have yet to have an issue with seating a 30 round Pmag loaded with 30 rounds. I did however discover in a class that I had loaded several of my Pmags to 31 rounds and I was having hell with them, until I realized the error. I was just not paying attention when I was loading them up since I wasn't using stripper clips.
I have also found that the 20 round Pmags loaded to capacity are a little tougher to seat on a closed bolt, but that may just be my baby hands. :cool:
I use PMAGS and load to 30, never had a problem. I do it for a couple of reasons, the first being that it is department policy so if there is an OIS, when homicide shows up they know how many rounds went down range and can accurately account for rounds. Second is that I've never had a problem seating a 30 round PMAG on a closed bolt.
All of my PMAGS will take 31 1/2 rounds. I figured out that when I load it all the way, the top round is on the left. I take one out and now the top round is on the right and I've got 30 rounds loaded. I've counted them down on all of my duty mags just to make sure this is right. Fully loaded = top round on left = 31. Take one out = 30 = top round on right. On my windowed PMAGS, I took a black sharpie and drew a line parallel to the bottom cartridge on the window when loaded with 30 for another easy way to check. Bottom edge of bullet even with sharpie = 30 rounds. I know, sounds crazy anal but that's what I try to teach people at my department so everybody knows that they are fully loaded and there are 30 rounds on board-Norcal911
Belmont31R
10-31-09, 01:28
I load them all to 30. My go to mags are all PMAGs so if they are ever used I will be able to insert on a closed bolt. If I ever go through those and am having to load 30rd loaded USGI mags Im probably a goner anyways....lol
kaiservontexas
10-31-09, 01:34
I keep some PMAGs loaded to 30 with no problems.
Never had a problem getting a loaded Pmag (30 round) to seat first time everytime in any of my rifles.
Older GI mags are downloaded by 2 by us as well. :cool:
As JW777 stated, the intended purpose of "downloading" AR magazines to 28 rounds (-2) is to help ensure that the magazine seats properly. This is especially important during reloads under stress.
I have personally had Pmags loaded with 30rds fail to seat during a reload when using the proper "PUSH/PULL" technique, which then required me to give the magazine a firm slap to get it to seat. It happened to me during a week long instructors course where Jeff Chudwin suggested that regardless of whether or not the Pmags were "designed" to be loaded with 30rds he still recommends only loading them up to 28rds. I figured I would run mine fully loaded (30rds) anyway, and learned from experience that 28rds works.... all the time.
I figure probably 99% of the time a Pmag loaded with 30rds will seat properly when you need it to, but I am willing to make the two round trade-off to ensure that my mags seat 100%, 100% of the time.
I think the most important lesson to learn is to always COUNT exactly how many rounds you load into your magazines. Dont just stuff away until you cant fit any more rounds into your mags.
Jay Cunningham
10-31-09, 03:34
Is this really a controversial topic?
Look - you're always going to be okay with 28 rounds. So we know that 28 rounds is certainly "a way". Will those extra two rounds be the ones that save your life? Or will the certainty that you can seat a fresh mag on a closed bolt save your life?
Or, you can just get really familiar with your gear. Load all of your PMAGs to 30 and then validate your tac loads at the range. Run a couple of hundred rounds practicing tac loads and RWRs. Find for yourself if your gear actually works for you the way you think it should. Then run this setup in a shooting school and see if your results change. A really nice benefit of a shooting school is that you are most likely not going to be shot at. You can validate this stuff and have confidence because you will no longer "think" but you will now "know."
I load my 30 round AR magazines (including PMAGs) with 28 rounds. I also download my Glock magazines by one round. I have validated both of these methods to myself and I know what results to expect.
I load my PMags to 29 rounds, because they actually hold 31. :D
But still, I load to capacity, and remove two rounds.
I have personally had Pmags loaded with 30rds fail to seat during a reload when using the proper "PUSH/PULL" technique, which then required me to give the magazine a firm slap to get it to seat. It happened to me during a week long instructors course where Jeff Chudwin suggested that regardless of whether or not the Pmags were "designed" to be loaded with 30rds he still recommends only loading them up to 28rds. I figured I would run mine fully loaded (30rds) anyway, and learned from experience that 28rds works.... all the time.
I've had enough PMags not seat with 30 that I download to 28. Jeff's advise is GTG.
As is Katars. Getting to know your gear is a must-do as well. If after doing so you find your 30s seat with 30, cool. If not, fine. Either way you know for certain.
I have been gone since Oct 08 and won't be home until mid-Dec 09 (~15 months). I left 4x 30-rd PMAGs (2 windowed, 2 non-windowed) loaded with 30 rds each sitting in my safe. I'll shoot them when I get home and post a report.
Dirty McCurdy
10-31-09, 14:51
All my mags are loaded to 30rds. Pmags have no trouble at all being loaded to 30rds some will even load to 31 (but will not seat on a closed bolt). Qualitly GI mags will also hold 30 and seat I have D&H, NTMHG, and Center ind. and all work. Lesser quality mags might not work though.
My Roomate was having problems seating Pmags on a closed bolt, I took all the ammo out and counted 31 rounds. So if your Pmags are not working try counting how many you have in them.
Let's try a search next time as it has been discussed before. I think that this topic has been beat to death enough.
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