View Full Version : Noveske N4 Recce or KAC SR15
Trying to decide on which one of these I want to pick up as my next toy. A N4 Light Recce Low-Profile 16" or KAC Sr15. I have looked up reviews on both and the look very comparable. Any comments? pros cons? experience?
I own two Noveske Recce low pros and I also have one of the KAC SR15s. You really can't go wrong with either. If I had to choose, I would slightly prefer the KAC since there's not as much special about the Noveske other than the barrel.
Noveske
-More accurate than the KAC (not by a lot though)
-Standard/more affordable parts in case you ever have issues
-Lifetime warranty unlike the KAC 1 year (not sure why KAC doesn't offer the same)
KAC
-BCG is supposed to last considerably longer
-I easily prefer the URX over the SWS rail on the Noveske
-I like the Sopmod more than the Vltor
-The KAC 2 stage trigger is much nicer than the Noveske standard trigger
-KAC manufacturers many of their own parts (including the Sopmod) whereas Noveske outsources everything but the barrel
That's a tough decision..when I was faced with the same tough choice, I ended up getting both..If I had to decide between the 2, I would more than likely pick the KAC purely based on all the intergrated features within the rifle. The KAC also in surprisingly a very light rifle compared to my Noveske with the SWS rail is that may factor into your decision.
BTT. Anybody have any suggestions or has anybody tried testing these out side by side at the range?
How much does the recce/sr15 weigh?
My vote is for the kac. Lighter and almost all built in house. I love mine, it is truly an ambi gun which just makes things easier and faster.
RAM Engineer
12-05-09, 15:15
-KAC manufacturers many of their own parts (including the Sopmod) whereas Noveske outsources everything but the barrel
My SR-15 SOPMOD stock is marked "LMT" like every other SOPMOD stock I've ever seen. Does KAC really make them? :confused:
Belmont31R
12-05-09, 16:52
My SR-15 SOPMOD stock is marked "LMT" like every other SOPMOD stock I've ever seen. Does KAC really make them? :confused:
Yes they do.
As Jeep said the only thing "special" about the Noveske is the barrel, and both the KAC and Noveske have fammer forged barrels.
I think the URX is a much better rail system than the SWS/Noveske. Integrated front sight, removable bottom rail, etc.
KAC comes with a nice 2 stage trigger. Noveske comes with standard mil spec type stuff.
Noveske BCG is below BCM standard whereas KAC is arguably a step up.
KAC gas system is going to be slightly smoother due to additional length.
Rear BUIS is Troy Vs. KAC 600M. I prefer the KAC 600M as do quite a few people who have used both.
Lower is one of a kind on the KAC. Noveske just has a cool roll mark.
KAC although the other would not be a bad choice
You can't go wrong with either, but given a choice i prefer the standard mil-spec parts vs some of the proprietary parts on the KAC. If your splitting hairs i guess you could say the Noveske barrel would go a little longer because its chrome lining is about twice as thick as the KAC's . I prefer the SOPMOD stock but i think the Emod was the only one to pass the IAR drop tests. The KAC has a nice rail but it is a little wider than i like. Also i don't use ambi controls on my rifles and according to the article " Daniel Defense M4 " in the latest Guns & Ammo Book of the AR-15 neither does Larry Vickers, and i'll take his word on it. For his reasoning behind that, read the article. For me the only thing i would add to either rifle would be a KAC Triple Tap Comp . I really don't think one is head and shoulders above the other or one will save your ass any better than the other one will. IMHO take your pick its just personal preferance.
Belmont31R
12-05-09, 18:23
You can't go wrong with either , but given a choice i prefer the standard mil-spec parts vs some of the proprietary parts on the KAC. If your splitting hairs i guess you could say the Noveske barrel would go a little longer. Also i don't use ambi controls on my rifles and according to the article " Daniel Defense M4 " in the latest Guns & Ammo Book of the AR-15 neither does Larry Vickers. For his reasoning behind this see the article. I don't think one is head and shoulders above the other or one will save your ass any better than the other. Take your pick.
What makes you say that? Any tests to back this up?
KAC will replace a broken bolt. KAC has said as much.
With all do respect to Larry Vickers I tend to take people like him, and their advice on products with a grain of salt because they are getting paid to push products. You don't have to use the ambi controls at all. The pattern is still the same for the "standard" parts. You could even sell the lower, and get a standard KAC lower to keep everything one brand.
I also have to wonder if a standard bolt will work in a pinch. I put a Colt BCG in my SR15, and it cycled just fine. Did not fire it, and wont that way but it would be interesting to see what would happen. Maybe someone from KAC can chime in if they ever tested this.
QuickStrike
12-05-09, 18:25
I'd personally go for the Noveske low profile w/ MUR upper.
atlantaguns
12-05-09, 18:48
-KAC manufacturers many of their own parts (including the Sopmod) whereas Noveske outsources everything but the barrel
Technically, Noveske doesn't make their barrels. FN does.
My SR-15 SOPMOD stock is marked "LMT" like every other SOPMOD stock I've ever seen. Does KAC really make them? :confused:
Not that I have ever heard. LMT has the rights to the SOPMOD.
ETA--I stand corrected from post below me.
Belmot and Jeep are correct, KAC is making their own sopmods under LMT license. Heard it right from 3 himself. Kinda cool.
My .2, KAC, they set the current standard.
-T
G34Shooter
12-05-09, 22:57
Technically, Noveske doesn't make their barrels. FN does.
You mean the N4 barrel blanks?
I chose to go with Noveske since the parts are fairly standardized, including the BCG. There are thousands of BCGs I could use with my Noveske within an easy drive of my house. The KAC BCG is proprietary, and if yours breaks during a time of crisis you will not find a replacement easily. Otherwise, if you are not considering your AR for a survival weapon, this point is moot. I don't want to own too many rifles so went with the most flexible system for repair issues.
Also, for what its worth, both Costa and Haley have shot my Noveske/Magpul limited RECCE and liked it very much. They both said there would be no point in buying a KAC of the same length. I was on the verge of buying a KAC before they told me that.
In a Noveske barrel thread posted here back in 2-13-08, a question about the longevity of the Noveske N4 CHF chrome lined barrels was asked to Grant of G&R Tactical . His reply was, probably between 60,000-80,000 rounds, I think. And to put that into perspective dollar wise back then, it was about $28,000 worth of ammo.
RogerinTPA
12-06-09, 08:12
What makes you say that? Any tests to back this up?
From Noveske's web sight: Made of Mil Spec M249 Machine Gun barrel steel, with heavy M249 Chrome Lining, (appx. 2 times as thick as an M4 or M16)
With all do respect to Larry Vickers I tend to take people like him, and their advice on products with a grain of salt because they are getting paid to push products. You don't have to use the ambi controls at all. The pattern is still the same for the "standard" parts. You could even sell the lower, and get a standard KAC lower to keep everything one brand.
I've heard him say the same thing, but I believe he was referring to muscle memory and having to use another unit's AR platform or battlefield pickup, which won't have the ambi controls. Combat practicality/necessity VS a modded niche. In the heat of a fire fight, you may get smoked, if you have to fumble with the fire controls of your weapon system. The same can be said for the BAD lever, left side ejecting ARs or RediMags, as well.
With all do respect to Larry Vickers I tend to take people like him, and their advice on products with a grain of salt because they are getting paid to push products.
You are sorely mistaken about LAV. He is a straight shooter. Period. Yes, he gets paid from various companies for his opinion, designs and endorsements, but that doesn't mean that he wont shoot straight with you on a competitors product. He also would never represent a company just for money if he didn't believe in their product, company and service to the customer.
There are very few people who know weapons of ALL kinds like LAV. He can teach you about a STG44, K98, AK's, 1911's, or any other platform made. Not only can he tell you about them, he can break down the operating system and hand you a blue print...
Don't judge a book by its cover, spend some time with him and you will see what I mean...
Trying to decide on which one of these I want to pick up as my next toy. A N4 Light Recce Low-Profile 16" or KAC Sr15. I have looked up reviews on both and the look very comparable. Any comments? pros cons? experience?
The SR15 seems to be a very well made, well thought out rifle. I will be adding a couple to my safe after I wrap up my .308 rifles.
I like the Noveske barrels, hard to beat
Al U. 5811
12-06-09, 20:28
Man, that's a tough call. Buy one of each.
More or less than a year ago, one of our favorite weapons photographers was pushing and posting Noveske, harder than he is doing KAC right now. Do you want whipped cream, or whipped cream and nuts on your ice cream?
I've heard him say the same thing, but I believe he was referring to muscle memory and having to use another unit's AR platform or battlefield pickup, which won't have the ambi controls. Combat practicality/necessity VS a modded niche. In the heat of a fire fight, you may get smoked, if you have to fumble with the fire controls of your weapon system. The same can be said for the BAD lever, left side ejecting ARs or RediMags, as well.
Larry also says that the 1911 should never be chambered in anything other than .45, and you shouldn't use a mag well.
Larry also says that the 1911 should never be chambered in anything other than .45, and you shouldn't use a mag well.
This doesn't pertain to this thread. Also, tread lightly when questioning LAV and what he recommends. He is a highly respected member of this board and contributes alot to M4C and the shooting community as a whole.
Belmont31R
12-09-09, 13:01
Nothing against Vickers (a lot of respect actually).
But as I said I just take what people say who get paid to push a certain product with a grain of salt. Never said he would be less than honest about anything. Just a general rule of mine, and nothing specific about him.
This doesn't pertain to this thread. Also, tread lightly when questioning LAV and what he recommends. He is a highly respected member of this board and contributes alot to M4C and the shooting community as a whole.
I merely meant to suggest that the original poster might be well served by considering alternatives that happen to suit him individually, rather than blindly assuming that this one particular size fits all. I share your respect for Vickers, but that doesn't mean that I think every shooter should do everything the way he does. If that bothers him, perhaps he can bully me himself.
mil_dot556
12-16-09, 15:18
noveske
I just went through the same thinking and went with the Noveske Low Profile (non-recce, but close enough).
The winner for me was the barrel and the VLTOR upper. It's the best barrel out there for all around shooting (as opposed to precision).
KAC has cool stuff, but I don't actually want KAC's proprietary stuff. While neat in theory, I don't want more different stuff. If I didn't already own other more standard AR15's I might lean more for the KAC.
But both are good weapons.
Cagemonkey
12-16-09, 20:01
Buy a Noveske Upper and pair it up with a SR15 Lower thats available for sale on this forum.
I own an SR15 E3 & love it. My biggest gripe about the Noveske rifles is the rail. I'm just not a big fan of the SWS rail. My E3 is a great shooting rifle and the combination of parts is a great value. HF barrel, very light URX rail, lowest profile available front sight, 600M buis, an awesome trigger, sopmod stock, plus all the E3 & IWS goodies like QD points everywhere & an improved bolt design. Plus, it's awesomely lightweight.
The only downside I see to the SR15 is the proprietary bolt design. On the other hand, I have not seen a single report yet of someone breaking one either.
If you break a bolt in under 20K rnds , free replacement. Detailed round count required.
If you break a bolt in under 20K rnds , free replacement. Detailed round count required.
Wow, that's a first! Talk about standing behind your product, That's just awesome.
Can a standard Milspec bolt be used in the KAC SR15 rifle at all ? I always have a back-up bolt for my rifle so i have it on hand just in case, because if you need it you might need it really bad and may not have the time or be in a situation where you can wait for a replacement. A new BCM bolt runs $69.95 plus shipping.
Belmont31R
12-18-09, 21:24
Can a standard Milspec bolt be used in the KAC SR15 rifle at all ? I always just buy a back-up bolt for my rifle so i have it on hand just in case, because when you need it you may really need it fast and may not have much if any time to wait for a replacement. A new BCM bolt runs $69.95 plus shipping.
I know it will cycle by hand but Im not putting a 2k personal rifle on the testing block to find out how reliable, if at all, it is. Id like to know if it can be used in an emergency if needed....
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