Need M1A Advice...

[Razorhunter]

Ok Guys,

So I'm really thinking of buying an M1A (my first), and I want one of the new Springfield versions. I don't have the bling for collecting old relics, and I want something new, and tactical.
I was thinking first about the Socom 16, but then I saw the 18" Scout Squad, and thought the extra barrel length might be better, with a 7.62 round.
OR, I could just go full length and buy the 22" M1A also with black synthetic, tactical stock.

This is going to be an all purpose tactical rifle, and I already own an M4 with an ACOG. I will NOT be putting an Aimpoint or Eotech or any other red dot sight on this M1A. I MIGHT consider another ACOG, but in all honesty, I feel the M1A deserves a real scope, with higher magnification than any ACOG has.
Does anyone else feel this way?
Still though, I LOVE the look of short carbines and short barrels, and while I think the Socom 16 looks the best, I also feel the 22" is a bit long.
That's why I'm currently leaning towards the 18" Scout Squad.

SO, the ONLY thing I really need to know more about, is the performance differences of the rifle with the different bbl lengths.
I mean, am I giving up a lot of performance if I go with the 16" Socom? How about the 18"?
Is the 18" bbl going to be THAT much different in performance, than the 22" would be?

Keep in mind that my BIGGEST concern is accuracy. While I AM interested in the varied knock down power and muzzle energy/etc with the different bbl lengths, I am even MORE interested to know how much accuracy difference will there be, between these different bbl lengths????

Can anyone give me some approximate numbers on what kind of accuracy these three rifles are capable of, at 100 and 300 yds??? IF I just knew the accuracy of the three bbl lengths at these two distances, I could probably make my decision right away. (ok, almost!)

Thanks so much for any help guys.

[-Wes-]

C-Mag is coming out with a Beta mag for M1As soon.

I've played around with a SOCOM 16 a little and I still want to get just a plain jane M1A. Maybe with a Krieger barrel though.

[fivepointoh]

DISCLAIMER I don't not own an M1A so take this for what it's worth.


I would go w/ a 18" scout style setup. You don't have to get the wood and therefore it will be all black. There are more rail systems and stocks coming out for the M1A and modularity for the platform has picked up a bit. I haven't heard the greatest of things about the SOCOM II platform but then again the bad always spreads quicker and louder than the good.

So if it was me....and I had the money (which I wish I did) I would definitely go w/ a 18" Scout setup.

[TOrrock]

Skip the SOCOM and go with the 18" Scout. It's a nice balance between the full size rifle and the carbine, and it uses the standard M14 flash suppressors, with the exception of the lack of a bayonet lug, and also the standard operting rod. This means that you can use a Vortex flash suppressor, or swap out the commercial op rod for a USGI one if you want to.

Go with the Smith scope mount, Smith Vortex, and replace the Springfield commercial extractor with a GI model and you should be good.

I own a Class 3 M14, have shot plenty of semi auto M1A's in all three barrel lengths, and I recommend going with the 18" as an all around practical length.

[carshooter]

I'd definately choose the Scout Squad over the Socom for the reasons listed above.

The only other thing I'll add is that to me the standard length rifle with the GI profile barrel handles better than the Scout Squad. The barrel on the Scout is full profile against the receiver, while GI barrels are a much lighter profile.

I HAD a Scout and sold it to buy another GI profile 22". I keep contemplating a build with a Fulton Armory Chrome lined GI profile 18" barrel.

[fivepointoh]

One more thing I'll add


an 18" Scout M1A is about as sexy as they come in .308

[Dorsai]

I like the 18" barrel. This is a Brush rifle, predating the Scout.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/463682.jpg

[Razorhunter]

I'd definately choose the Scout Squad over the Socom for the reasons listed above.

The only other thing I'll add is that to me the standard length rifle with the GI profile barrel handles better than the Scout Squad. The barrel on the Scout is full profile against the receiver, while GI barrels are a much lighter profile.

I HAD a Scout and sold it to buy another GI profile 22". I keep contemplating a build with a Fulton Armory Chrome lined GI profile 18" barrel.



Hey carshooter,

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "the bbl on the Scout Squad is full profile against the receiver".

However, please answer me this one question: IF I were to buy the 18" Scout Squad, and I wanted to add a Fulton Armory Chrome Lined, 18" GI barrel on down the road, then would it be possible?
I mean, are barrel swaps a breeze, and easily interchangeable???

I was actually unaware of there being a "GI Profile" barrel on the M1A, and I am now wondering what advantages/disadvantages there are here? I mean, what is the difference, or what are the differences in performance?? (IF ANY AT ALL?)

Sounds like I'm just going to have to go with the 18" Scout Squad.


Well, I GUESS I COULD do what one guy on another forum did. He bought the 22" M1A, and put on an aftermarket stock, and cut the stock down, and basically had a 22" bbl rifle, that was the same overall length as the 18" Scout Squad...

Decisions, decisions...

Does anyone know if there are ANY other mags I need to be looking at, OTHER THAN the one's from 44mag.com??? I mean, they are the exact same mags that Springfield Armory sells, and half the price. Are there ANY other manufacturers producing NEW M1A mags, that are comparable?????
Thanks guys...

[Lumpy196]

Another vote for the 18".

The SOCOM is cool, a true "street howitzer" as my friend calls it. Put a few mags through his just the other day on multiple tagets. The comp works great at controlling muzzle rise, but its LOUD.

I'll take flash supression and having to muscle the gun over a comp any day.

[hireforfire]

If you want a compact package a 18" scout in a sage stock is nice but probably going to cost around 2500 with all new parts

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/flatop16valmet/IMG_0323.jpg

The 18 in barrels don't provide the long range accuracy at 100 that the 22 in barrels provide my 18 drops about 6 in at 100

[Razorhunter]

Well does anyone have any group comparisons at 100 and/or 300yds???

I mean, what kind of groups are you getting at 100yds with the 18"? How about with the 22"???

How about 300yd groups with the two bbl lengths???

Someone's GOT to have some numbers here...

I'm trying to determine the DIFFERENCE in accuracy, between the 18" and 22" rifles, at 100 and maybe even 300yds respectively...

At LEAST give me 100yd numbers guys. (Hehe!)

Thanks guys!

[hireforfire]

Groups are on par with a 22 they just drop like a sac of bricks is all mine could probably pull an 1 1/2 inch group with no issues from a ruck at 300 I could clip 5" unsupported prone on a good day basically they out shoot me with no issues

[TOrrock]

There's a school of thought that the 18" barrels can be just as if not more accurate than the 21" barrels....less barrel whip or vibration.

I honestly think either one will do what you want it to. I am kind of partial to the traditional 21" but for what you're looking to do, add all the CDI stuff to it, I'd go 18".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Smith%20M14/SmithM14close.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Smith%20M14/SmithM14.jpg

[hireforfire]

kinda from wild to mild except you got the fun switch, Kudos

[Razorhunter]

Templar,
I assume "CDI Stuff" means "add all the tactical stuff" to the rifle, however, I am still wondering exactly what "CDI" stands for?

Anyhow, I appreciate you telling me this, as IF the 18" bbl is pretty close to the same accuracy as the 22", I'm all for it.
Which BTW, brings me to my next point. I was under the impression, that the Springfield M1A's, currently being produced, had 22" barrels, and NOT 21" bbls.
Is this true, or what? You keep mentioning 21", and I'm just wondering which is correct? Me and my Springfield catalog (btw, I've never owned an M1A, so I lack experience), OR YOU and your M1A????
Which is correct? (both maybe????) 21" or 22"???

[TOrrock]

Chicks Dig It. :D

They might be 22", I've always thought 21", but an inch isn't going to make any real difference.

If you go with the Springfield Scout, I'd ditch the "scope rail" that they put on the barrel and stick with the receiver mounted units available from Smith Enterprises.

[VNGunfighter]

18" Squad Scout/Bush rifle would be the way to go-I woulden't recommend anything shorter that 18".

I had the Bush rifle and pounded it in shooting competitions, it worked well and I am now shooting a standard length (22") Supermatch-General rule, every inch you cut off barrel you will loose 50fps.

If planning on a scoped precision rifle go with a standard 22" gun.

Sure, the 16" "room raiders" are cool but not really practical.

VNG

[PALADIN-hgwt]

xxxxx

[carshooter]

Hey carshooter,

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "the bbl on the Scout Squad is full profile against the receiver".

However, please answer me this one question: IF I were to buy the 18" Scout Squad, and I wanted to add a Fulton Armory Chrome Lined, 18" GI barrel on down the road, then would it be possible?
I mean, are barrel swaps a breeze, and easily interchangeable???

I was actually unaware of there being a "GI Profile" barrel on the M1A, and I am now wondering what advantages/disadvantages there are here? I mean, what is the difference, or what are the differences in performance?? (IF ANY AT ALL?)

Sounds like I'm just going to have to go with the 18" Scout Squad.


Well, I GUESS I COULD do what one guy on another forum did. He bought the 22" M1A, and put on an aftermarket stock, and cut the stock down, and basically had a 22" bbl rifle, that was the same overall length as the 18" Scout Squad...

Decisions, decisions...



Basically, the GI profile barrels have lightening cuts that the Springfield barrels do not have. In other words I found the Scout Squad to feel heavier in range drills than the full length GI rifle, and the weight was all exactly where I didn't want it, towards the muzzle.

The 18" barrel length is sexier and has a high CDI factor for me, but I didn't want a shorter HEAVIER package. If I'm going to sacrifice 200fps velocity for 4" less barrel, I wanted a shorter, lighter more dynamic handling package, hence my intention to build another 18" gun with a lighter profile barrel.

IMHO, if you're going to shoot irons and surplus ammo, go with the full length GI profile rifle. A Surplus GI barrel is chrome lined, which provides longer barrel life. The Springfield manufactured barrels are not chrome lined and generally have a shorter life span, but are more accurate IF you shoot match grade ammo through them.

To me, shooting surplus ammo through a match grade barrel is kind of like putting 87 octane pump gas in a high performance motor and trying to keep your foot out of it so it won't ping and detonate. Most surplus 308 ball is not MOA accurate, in my experience.