AR Gold Trigger

[steveh0203]

Thinking about replacing my Timney trigger with a AR Gold trigger.Has anyone had any experience with the AR Gold

[QuietShootr]

Yes. It's probably the best of the crop currently available for DMR-type rifles. I know the Geissele mafia will be along in a second to set me straight, but it's my opinion. Because of its sear/hammer geometry, it's easier to adjust for a LIGHT but still solid and reliable trigger. And (the biggest thing for hard use, as far as I'm concerned) it is safer than any other match trigger design out there. In the unlikely event you were to drop or jar the weapon hard enough to release the sear, a secondary safety sear will arrest the fall of the hammer. The weapon can then be fired normally off the safety sear, though the trigger pull will be heavier. This enables a safe, light pull that would be unsafe in a lesser trigger.

It's a solid unit.

[Cold]

Thinking about replacing my Timmney trigger with a AR Gold trigger.Has anyone had any experience with the AR Gold



I shoot with a guy who runs an AR Gold. I run a G.A. DMR and like the G.A. DMR however I have shot the AR Gold and feel it is a great trigger. If thats what you want, I think it will serve you well.

Here is a video of it in action, the guy in the bright green/blue shirt is using an AR Gold trigger, and he runs it well.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpY68W6yXmY

Right around 1.20 in the video you see the trigger before hand.

[steveh0203]

I was told that the AR Gold has the shortest reset was the main reason I was thinking about trying it.

[QuietShootr]

I was told that the AR Gold has the shortest reset was the main reason I was thinking about trying it.

It's very short, but it does not snap positively like a stock trigger. In fact, it's almost imperceptible. I found this really irritating at first, then I learned how to shoot it. Once you stop worrying about the boot camp 'ease-to-reset' shit, you can shoot incredibly fast.

[eternal24k]

Interesting, I might consider one for my .308 build, would like to hear more.

[USMC1341]

anyway to make the gold trigger work in my Colt? Seems my pins are not the correct size for it...

[QuietShootr]

No, it won't work in large pin guns or receivers with a sear block.

[QuietShootr]

Interesting, I might consider one for my .308 build, would like to hear more.

http://www.americantrigger.com/

[RetreatHell]

I would ONLY get this trigger in a precision rifle (i.e. a SPR or dedicated semi-auto sniper rifle). I've shot it on a friend's SBR and it does NOT belong on one of those or any type of defensive rifle in my opinion.

It reminds me very much of a hair trigger on a bolt gun, but that might just be me.

I can't speak to the quality of the AR Gold trigger, but until a lot more people are using one I wouldn't personally get it myself. But that's just me.

Unless you are using a precision gun, in my opinion you should always just stick to the factory mil-spec trigger that comes with your lower. I have one Geissle 2-stage SSA in a Larue lower that I like when shooting at 100+ yards, but I don't really like it for close-in training because it occasionally "double clutches." I have a KAC 2-stage in my SR-15 E3 lower that came with it, but once it wears out I'll be replacing it with a standard mil-spec trigger. My other 3 lowers all have mil-spec triggers.

That's all just my experience and knowledge I've gained from shooters here and elsewhere (and carbine course instructors) who are much more skilled and experienced and, in most cases, have much more time behind the gun in actual gunfights than I do. So I listen to them and pass the knowledge on when the opportunity presents itself.

Semper Fi,

Paul

[USMC1341]

That's too bad. I liked this trigger from what I read on it, but my 6920 is just a few clicks south of when they switched over to the different pin size. I was hoping there might be a way to retro fit it. Maybe they will make a separate version in the future?

[Sparky5019]

I'm a relative Newby but...

I LOVE MINE!!

Sparky

[tirod]

Relatively heavy, gritty triggers have long been part and parcel of military weapons - especially compared to range/target rifles. Take out the necessary budgeting and competitive bidding of weapons, you could have much better triggers.

Not necessarily lighter ones, tho. Aside from the institutional groupthink of bureaucracy, a heavier trigger offers less opportunity for unintentional discharges in active movement during contact. What isn't well known is where the 6 to 10 pound figure came from. Who tested that when. and what train of argument came to the conclusion? It's been around for a long time.

Considering milspec triggers are "heavy," why use a competitive sport trigger on a combat weapon? I see a lot of crossover in the civilian side assuming that race parts must be superior. If you drive a 785 hp circle track car to work and enjoy 4MPG and a complete inability to idle at stoplights, I probably won't convince you.

Point being, race car or race gun. high performance parts don't often work on daily drivers. Reliability is the characteristic more highly prized.

A high performance trigger that can't be trusted doing entry team work is not reliable. Picking and choosing parts from disparate uses creates something that isn't good for either.

Problem is, you have to wade through all the gaff from those who sell them and the happy customers who enjoy them. Very often, they use societal constructs to impress listeners.

Show me where infantrymen with 8 months incountry are benefited, I'll listen. I don't drive a circle track car.

[00bullitt]

The ATC AR gold is as reliable as any mil spec trigger I have ever run. Its fully adjustable too. I run one in my competition 3 gun rifle set at 2# and run one in my SBR work rifle set at 4#. Never had a problem from either. My competition rifle sees more rounds in a month than most folks put through there guns in a year. Its going on season 3 without an issue or readjustment.

As for the reset. I wasn't too fond of it being so light either so I called up Ronin Coleman and talked to him about it. He sent me two springs that were slightly stiffer that made the reset feel a bit more tactile. I prefer the more tactile reset myslef.

I am totally impressed with the reliability and clean break and short reset of the AR Gold.

[Mike from Texas]

The ATC AR gold is as reliable as any mil spec trigger I have ever run. Its fully adjustable too. I run one in my competition 3 gun rifle set at 2# and run one in my SBR work rifle set at 4#. Never had a problem from either. My competition rifle sees more rounds in a month than most folks put through there guns in a year. Its going on season 3 without an issue or readjustment.

As for the reset. I wasn't too fond of it being so light either so I called up Ronin Coleman and talked to him about it. He sent me two springs that were slightly stiffer that made the reset feel a bit more tactile. I prefer the more tactile reset myslef.

I am totally impressed with the reliability and clean break and short reset of the AR Gold.

So exactly what springs did they send? I called and asked about this yesterday and the person I spoke with knew nothing about this.

[QuietShootr]

You need to ask for Ronin. He's the guy who designed it and knows it inside and out. Tell him what you want (heavier reset, heavier first stage, whatever) and he'll square you away.

[Sparky5019]

I LOVE mine! I can routinely get 4-5 shot bursts that sound like full auto and are perfectly accurate! You'll love it and it is well worth the money!

Sparky

[geminidglocker]

The guys in that video seem to like the Lancer mag as well.

[Mike from Texas]

I LOVE mine! I can routinely get 4-5 shot bursts that sound like full auto and are perfectly accurate! You'll love it and it is well worth the money!

Sparky

Well that's certainly NOT what I am looking for. :rolleyes:

[Mike from Texas]

You need to ask for Ronin. He's the guy who designed it and knows it inside and out. Tell him what you want (heavier reset, heavier first stage, whatever) and he'll square you away.

I'll give him a call tomorrow, thanks.

[M4Fundi]

I have one Geissle 2-stage SSA in a Larue lower that I like when shooting at 100+ yards, but I don't really like it for close-in training because it occasionally "double clutches."
Paul

Paul can you explain "double clutches"?

God Bless

[RetreatHell]

Paul can you explain "double clutches"?

God Bless

As I understand it, "double clutching" a trigger is basically not letting the trigger reset before you attempt to fire again, and happens when you're trying to quickly fire multiple shots.

I also Googled the term and found this on the Midwest Training Group website:


...When shooting fast with a loss of fine motor dexterity the tendency is to not let the trigger forward enough. The result is at best a momentary pause in the firing and at worst a perception that the gun has malfunctioned somehow. We call it "double clutching" the trigger....

I personally first heard that term in my Magpul carbine 1 course. Chris Costa said it when demonstrating how many accurate rounds he could get off in a set amount of time before he reached his failure point, prior to our class doing the BSA Drill for the first time. He was using a 2-stage trigger in the particular lower he was running, and he told us that he was going to attempt to fire a certain number of rounds, lets say 9 in under 2 seconds (*please note that I made up those numbers*), but that he would occasionally "double clutch" the trigger after the 8th shot fired and not get off that last round he was going for.

When using my Larue lower with the Geissle trigger on targets up close, doing something like non-standard response drills where I might fire up to 7 rounds very rapidly at the target, I'll sometimes get off 5 rounds and pull the trigger and nothing happens, because I didn't allow the trigger to travel back far enough to reset. That's only happened to me using 2-stage triggers, so now I only use plain Jane, no-frills mil-spec single stage triggers. I just have to really use my fundamentals of marksmanship a lot more so when firing out past 50 yards with a mil-spec trigger, which means I can't get away with as much and still make my hits. But the Geissle SSA is still my favorite 2-stage out there.

Obviously, double clutching the trigger is not a problem with the AR Gold trigger since it basically requires zero length of travel to reset. But I still wouldn't advocate it for a fighting carbine. Of course, YMMV.

Hope this helps:)

Semper Fi,

-Paul

[M4Fundi]

Thanks Paul... I do that on my P-35 sometimes (can't feel the reset:mad:).

I had been using the term "double clutch" (for lack of having a better term) to describe the problems I had with my stock single stage trigger that had so many creepy spots that on long range precision shots I would "double clutch" because the last creepy spot would trick me into thinking the trigger was breaking and I would let if forward for reset and there was not bang:eek: I have yet to be able to outshoot my Geissele SSA and double clutch it, but I'll work on it:p So far I feel the reset easily and love it, but I was originally trained on 2 stage triggers so they are more intuitive for me.

[RetreatHell]

Oh I'm definitely not outshooting my Geissle SSA! I ain't no Costa, that's for damn sure!:p I think the reason I've done it on the SSA 2-stage is simply because I'm nowhere near as experienced with 2-stage triggers as I am with single stage mil-specs when doing up-close work with a high rate of fire thrown in the mix. I would also seem to only to it when under stress as well, which makes sense I guess.

But I'll tell you what... when I'm shooting out past 100 yards from the bench, or just slow fire in general, and going for precision just to have fun, I LOVE squeezing that Geissle SSA trigger when putting rounds downrange! It just feels so crisp to me and I haven't yet found another one that I like as much, although the KAC 2-stage is pretty nice too.

[Belmont31R]

I personally like the SSA, and I've yet to hear of a failure in one. They are not a "hair trigger", and I think there are a lot of benefits to using one. For me, when doing drills, I find I don't have to fight the gun as you do with a typical GI trigger...at least thats the sense I get switching between the two.



Reading this thread I examined the reset points between 2 USGI triggers, and 2 SSA's. I didn't notice any discernible difference in the length to reset. They were all quite obvious with a distinct click. Ive never tried to shoot 9 rounds in 2 seconds, though...:cool:



If my KAC 2 stage in my SR15 last to 10k rounds it will then be replaced with an SSA. After shooting them many thousands of rounds, and not hearing of any failures I feel fully confident in what they can do. When I got my 1st one I switched an upper between 2 lowers, and did drills for a couple hours. With the SSA I was able to shoot better, and was not fighting a heavy trigger pull to get the gun to go off. Part of the issue with USGI triggers that I have found is inconsistency.....my latest LMT lower has a good stock trigger. Its smooth, and the pull isn't so bad. Ive had others that were extremely heavy with a gritty feel in the take up. This is why Ive spent many hours doing dime washer drills when I was AD....the USGI trigger requires a sensitive set of digits to get it to shoot.


Oh, and the rifle that won WW2, the M1 Garand, comes stock with a 2 stage trigger....they can't be 'that' bad...;)

[RetreatHell]

Don't get me wrong, dude. I wasn't saying that the SSA was failing in any way, shape or form... it's a straight up failure on the operator's end. Maybe I'm just retarded though:p Or it could be that I'm wrong about the term and that it means something else, in which case I would have no idea what caused the failure for my carbine to go bang, other than it was my fault and not the trigger's.

But if I was gonna choose a 2-stage for a fighting gun, the only one I'd use would be the Geissle SSA.

But you're so right about standard triggers having absolutely no consistency among each other. The best one I've personally owned came in my LWRC lower.

[M4Fundi]

I have to admit that the single stage trigger on my Noveske tho too creepy for me has me really fascinated to know what a perfectly smooth, crisp and a bit lighter single stage would be like. I hated the single stage at first but learned to respect the single stage concept and really hope to run the Wilson Single Stage someday. I do love the Geissele tho, it feels very much like a FAL trigger perfected.

[Belmont31R]

Don't get me wrong, dude. I wasn't saying that the SSA was failing in any way, shape or form... it's a straight up failure on the operator's end. Maybe I'm just retarded though:p Or it could be that I'm wrong about the term and that it means something else, in which case I would have no idea what caused the failure for my carbine to go bang, other than it was my fault and not the trigger's.

But if I was gonna choose a 2-stage for a fighting gun, the only one I'd use would be the Geissle SSA.

But you're so right about standard triggers having absolutely no consistency among each other. The best one I've personally owned came in my LWRC lower.



Ha I was like you a year and a half ago. Thought USGI was the only way to go. Read all these stories about 2 stages failing. SSA came out, and I waited a while. Finally gave in and bought one after a 3 month back order. Put the bastard in, and went out to the range. Now they are a priority for my AR's.



Looking back on why I thought 2 stages we "bad" was because most people are not willing to plop down the money for an SSA. Most of the failures are from RRA triggers, and "match" triggers used in combat like roles. I know you know but the SSA was designed as a combat trigger with the deletion of adjustment screws, which IMO, are the biggest liability in a 2 stage. Adjustable 2 stages really do require a knowing hand to install, and most people are plopping them into guns without doing the proper testing and adjustment to even be in a match gun let alone a combat gun....


You ever come up around Austin?

[RetreatHell]

You ever come up around Austin?

Not very often, man. But I will be coming up there for a few days sometime around mid-year, maybe around the tail-end of summer.

[Mike from Texas]

So taking all of this into consideration, for a dedicated DMR rifle (read primarily bench and long range (600m) shooting), between the Giessele SSA, Geissele DMR and SR Gold trigger, which do you guys feel would be the best in that application?

I have no problem spending money on a REALLY good trigger. I'm currently leaning toward the SR Gold mainly because I have read many times it feels like a finely tuned 1911 trigger AND they have a 30 day no questions asked money back guarantee.

I just wish I could find one in stock somewhere other than at the factory. I live less than 10 minutes away, but they won't sell over the counter. I would have to pay an additional $38 for shipping and sales tax.

[M4Fundi]

If you read up on the Geissele triggers for your purposes the DMR would definitely be better, but I think with the right rifle, ammo and doing your part 600 with the SSA will work fine. I will be using the SSA out to 425yd in a competition next month. :eek:I'm sure the misses will be due to me ;)& not the trigger... which I could not say for my former stock trigger.

[jmart]

If you read up on the Geissele triggers for your purposes the DMR would definitely be better ....

Why would the DMR be better than the AR Gold?

[M4Fundi]

I have no idea.
I researched the Geisseles & Wilson TTU for my choices and the Gold was not a candidate. I was looking for a better true combat trigger. The Geissele SSA (which is not meant to be categorized with the DMR or Gold) has a track record in combat as reliable and it is simple, robust and no tweaking necessary. As I said the "description" of the DMR would make it better for your purposes.

I have a buddy who oozes the greatness of the Gold, but I have not shot one. If long range bench shooting is your thing, there could be other or even better triggers than the ones you have listed. I'm not a bench shooter, but I do (attempt:p) to shoot longrange with service worthy rifles.

My last long range COF in competition my contacts dried up, my Oakleys fogged and I had a better chance of hitting the targets launching my rifle at them with a Trebuchet than which trigger i had in the rifle making a difference:eek:

[Mike from Texas]

My other AR rifles are set up with RRA 2 stage triggers, but they would be more likely to see "combat" if we ever had a SHTF scenario. This gun would at best be more of a sniper type rifle than a combat weapon being dragged around. This thing is a beast at 15# with a loaded magazine. I would much rather have either my M4 or my Grendel if I had to get into that type of situation.

So this gun will be mostly bench and maybe hunting rifle occasionally.