View Full Version : Do you run a Glock 22?
The Glock 22 is one of the most common police pistols in use in the US today, but it is also one of the most controversial among shooters. It has been plagued for years with reports of "unsupported chambers" causing KaBooms! More recently the G22 has been reported by numerous agencies as malfunctioning when a light is attached to the rail. Yet still it either issued or approved by most agencies in our country.
I've owned two G22's in the past, didn't care for them, but now have a 3rd I recently bought to play with. So after a conversation with a co-worker the other night I though I'd see what people on this forum think.
Do you run a G22?
What are your experiences with the pistol?
High Tower
11-04-09, 14:22
I bought a Glock 22 when CDNN had them for around $325 or so last year. So I guess I don't run it per se, but I shot many hundred rounds through it. I used it for a couple of IDPA shoots and it did just fine.
I put a Storm Lake barrel in which tightened up the groups a little bit, Duracoated it, and our smith tinkered with it replacing some parts.
Overall, its a fun gun. I also have heard of the frames or slides cracking, but have never witnessed it myself. But I didn't buy it to run it hard, so I doubt mine will ever be a problem.
SWATcop556
11-04-09, 14:22
My old department issued the G22. I was very keen on a lot of the issues of running this specific platform in a 40cal. I replaced the recoil spring every 2000 rounds (about every six weeks with my training schedule). I downloaded all of my mags by one round as well. Not sure if it helped but I had very few malfunctions. I ran mine with a X200A at the time and didn't have too many issues. I can't say the same for some of the other officers, though. Many had issues but they didn't stay up on their maintenance.
I've been gone for three years now but still see the guys all the time. The chief recently had all officers remove weapon mounted lights due to the constant malfunctions.
I don't see a benefit of running the G22 when a G17 will get the job done without the issues.
When I was working as a LE I was issued a G22 and carried a G27 as a BUG.
I had no problems. It was fairly idiot proof, although I saw plenty of idiots try and F' it up!
At the time pistol mounted lights were just really coming into mainstream use, but our department did not allow them. Therefore I never ran mine with one attached, so I cannot comment on any problems associtated with having a light attached.
I found it to be an accurate and reliable shooter for me. I qualified with it 4 times a year, always without incident. The only time I had a part break it was the guide rod. The end snapped of at some unknow time. When I stripped it to clean the spring sprang loose. Again I do not know when it happened as it continued to run without issue. The department armorer gave me a new one, which I dropped in, and back in my holster it went.
After I left the department I had to return the 22 and I sold the 27 as I decided to standardize on 9mm.
If I was issued one tomorrow to carry for duty, I would do so with no qualms.
-RD62
I have shot the heck out of the 3 40 cals I have no issues with any of them and none ever blew up in my hand. That being said I now carry a 9mm but have total faith in the 40 cal glocks and the rounds I carry in them.
We use G22's as the standard issue sidearm with a Surefire X200 (the X300 wasn't out yet) loaded with Speer GD 155gr. So far the only problems have been directly related to either bad ammo or magazines. I have several thousand rounds through mine with no issues, just the standard parts replacement from wear.
DARK-KNIGHT
11-04-09, 16:09
My Dept. issues the G22. I have been carrying one with an X200 for 5 years and haven't had any of the issues I hear people talking about.
I'm on my second G22. The first one went Kaboom after 10000 rounds. To be fair it was at a time when i was starting out with a single stage press and must have double charged a load. Glock replaced the gun for my current one at a very fair price.
The new one which is now three years old and has 15000 rounds has never had a ftf, fte or any other possible type of hiccup. Atleast 10000 of those rounds were made through a Dillon 550b.
I never became enamored with the concept of an attached light so i can't really speak to the issues surrounding that topic. Though i owned an X200 for a time that i fired aprox. 1000 rounds through it also w/no problems.
What i did notice immediately after winning a G17 at a GSSF match is that my score shot up significantly when using the G17 with factory fmj even compared to the G22 with my lite reloads.
Recently i aquired an M&P 40 and have put 2200 rounds through it also w/ no problems. Hadn't used the G22 much (sat in safe) since winning the G17 and buying the M&P. Last week i took both the G22 and the M&P 40 to the range for a comparison of sorts. The result is that the G22 is now at my local gun store awaiting to be purchased on consignment. Its a great gun, i believe. The M&P 40 is just easier to get good hits w/faster. Despite what i believe is a trigger that is well odd (for me).
I used to have one. I never had any reliability issues with it, however I didn't care for it and sold it. I'm much happier with my G17.
I have a few Glocks and one is a G22. Haven't had problems with it, but honestly I don't shoot it a lot, maybe 2K total. My most used Glock right now is a G34 and is one of my favorite shooters, with zero issues.
woodandsteel
11-04-09, 17:17
At a recent training day, a coworker had two failure to feeds with his Glock 22. The fired rounds ejected okay, but the gun failed to load the next round. The slide would only go forward halfway, and he would have to do a "tap" to get the slide to go all the way forward.
The instructor found two causes for this. First, his magazine springs looked to be about the same size as a Glock 23 mag spring. The officer admitted to unloading his magazines on a regular basis, to relieve the pressure on the springs. It turns out that this is not recemmended.
The second thing that they found was that he had tightened his TLR-1 down on the rail as tightly as he could. We were told that the TLR-1s should only be hand tightened. If you over tighten them, the frame of the Glock won't be able to flex properly, causing failures to feed.
After the spring changes and loosening the set screw on his light, he completed the day with no additional problems.
With that said, I currently carry a Glock 23. However, when we are issued new Glocks in the near future, I will carry the Glock 22. And, hopefully, I will finally be issued a light to go with it. I like the Glock. But that is only because I have no other experience with any other striker fired pistol. Plus, it is the only handgun we are allowed to carry on duty.
Have had a Glock 22 since 2006, and have run it with a light since 2008. Conservatively, 20,000 rounds.
No glaring issues. I've had only a handful of malfunctions, and many of those were ammunition related (ie struck primer with no ignition).
We issue 180 gr ammo for duty and training, and I replace my recoil spring every 3000 rounds or so. I only use new magazines, too.
A couple people on my department have reported issues with the light, but so far I have not had any such issues, and I run my gun harder than pretty much everyone else.
I have carried my issued Glock 22 at work since 2006. The weapon mounted light is always attached. I have several thousand rounds through it and do not remember any malfunctions. I have a magazine with a bad spring in it that I use to induce stoppages during training. I have also taken this pistol to several classes and ran it hard without cleaning. We use Speer Gold Dot 180gr. JHP for duty and Speer Lawman 180gr. TMJ for training.
I use a G22 for my L-10 gun and also for the bedroom gun with a light. Have had one of them for over 10 years (the L-10) and the other for 4+ years. No issues other than normal maintenance and spring replacement.
SWATcop556
11-04-09, 21:16
At a recent training day, a coworker had two failure to feeds with his Glock 22. The fired rounds ejected okay, but the gun failed to load the next round. The slide would only go forward halfway, and he would have to do a "tap" to get the slide to go all the way forward.
The instructor found two causes for this. First, his magazine springs looked to be about the same size as a Glock 23 mag spring. The officer admitted to unloading his magazines on a regular basis, to relieve the pressure on the springs. It turns out that this is not recemmended.
The second thing that they found was that he had tightened his TLR-1 down on the rail as tightly as he could. We were told that the TLR-1s should only be hand tightened. If you over tighten them, the frame of the Glock won't be able to flex properly, causing failures to feed.
After the spring changes and loosening the set screw on his light, he completed the day with no additional problems.
With that said, I currently carry a Glock 23. However, when we are issued new Glocks in the near future, I will carry the Glock 22. And, hopefully, I will finally be issued a light to go with it. I like the Glock. But that is only because I have no other experience with any other striker fired pistol. Plus, it is the only handgun we are allowed to carry on duty.
My dept issues the TLR-1 but I carry the X300. The TLR-1 they gave went on a spare G19 I have. I'd heard about only hand tightening but I shot it loose after three mags. I then tightened it down with a quarter and 5k rounds later it's still snug and not going anywhere. The problem isn't the light. It's making a platform fit a caliber it was not designed to shot.
It sounds almost Communist to say;
I ran out and bought my G22 in 2004 after the trigger return spring in my issued gen 2 G17 broke while training.
I have ran well over 5,000 rounds through the G22 with a Glock light (junk) attatched. I've yet to have any issues with it.
This is the only Glock I own that I can not warm up to. I can't stand the way it feels with out the light, or with a TRL/X200 mounted. (Glock lights have batteries stacked, not side by side. Yes, holsters are a pain in the ass.) I shoot it well and have confidence in it. I just don't like it. I like my G23. I love the G27 that backs the G22 up. I don't like the G22. There is no justification for this other than I just don't feel "it" with the gun.
The G17 that broke? I've since purchased the gun from my Dept when it was returned to the distributer. PM performed and the pistol is flawless. I love it.
AlphaTango23
11-04-09, 21:54
My old department issued the G22. I was very keen on a lot of the issues of running this specific platform in a 40cal. I replaced the recoil spring every 2000 rounds (about every six weeks with my training schedule). I downloaded all of my mags by one round as well. Not sure if it helped but I had very few malfunctions. I ran mine with a X200A at the time and didn't have too many issues. I can't say the same for some of the other officers, though. Many had issues but they didn't stay up on their maintenance.
I've been gone for three years now but still see the guys all the time. The chief recently had all officers remove weapon mounted lights due to the constant malfunctions.
I don't see a benefit of running the G22 when a G17 will get the job done without the issues.
Same. I prefer the G17 and G19 to the 22s.
Carried a few G22s, with and without lights. Shot thousands of rounds through them. No "kabooms", no problems.
Maintain and supervise many more G22s (and G23s) with and without lights, same input.
I've seen several Glock 22s, some other calibers, and some other makes, that experienced what might be described as kabooms. Ammo was the cause in all, and most of it was from the same manufacturer. For a time in 40SW, certain brass cases produced all kinds of excitement, too.
Lots of threads here about Glock 40s.
I have a dumb question. Why would a glock 22 malfunction with a light attached to it. Isn't the light attached directly to the rail?
The light causes the frame to flex less under recoil, the frame flex is one of the things taking up the energy of the recoil, less flex means more slide velocity, more slide velocity can often mean fails-to-feed or extractor bounce issues.
We issue the Glock 9mms here after having a disaster with trying to transition to the G22 in 2006.
Our G22s were very unreliable, with and without lights, and with ammo from 155gr to 180gr.
This gets to be a touchy subject, and its been covered before, numerous times, here and at Lightfighter and 10-8.
I've recounted my experience before...
A 7 or 8 years ago, if I'd heard the stories about the G22, I would've said your all nuts, but...
I was first issued a G22 back in like 2000. I shot it for quals, and some maintenance training here and there, and had a separate G22 for out competition team, I shot the hell out of that one. No light and no real issues. The vast majority of the rounds were generic ball training ammo.
I did mount a light on this once, but only for night quals, as they were not really authorized, and I didn't have the holster for it. It was an M3, no issues.
I left that facility and went to another in the complex. We were issued G22, with M3 lights attached. All shooting was done with the light, and generic ball ammo, it was even our duty load.
Just before, or soon after I got there, late 2003, the frames were replaced. This caused issues with the mags, so Glock replaced those. Never noticed what follower number, or spring, didn't know there was a difference.
later, when we got tired of the M3 lights shitting the bed on us, we switched to TLR1 lights. We also went to a new duty load. Winchester Ranger, IIRC. This is when the problems started, with both types of ammo. Not everyone, not every time, but with enough shooters, and often enough, that our armorers, training staff, supply staff, academy armorers, and Glock reps all looked into it, they switched to Hydra-shok ammo, who knows why, other then some old school types, but it is a milder load, which helped a little. Loosening the light would help,a little, but to much and it would fall off.
While the problem was reduced, I don't think it ever really went away. I left soon after.
New facility in the complex, issued a G22, no light. Why I ask? When they tried them, they had malfunctions. Its hard getting the complete and straight answer, but from what I pieced together, it was an M6X light, with the long gun/screw type mount. They did not pursue it, and issued SureFire 6Z'( wait to you hear about that). Most of our shooting is done with frangible, and hysra shok 165's, with no real issues.
I will be the first to admit, that PMCS is very poor in the complex, replacing and fixing stuff, only after it fails. Even Armorers that "get it" are hamstrung by budgets, etc. that prevent good preventive maintenance.
It would appear, there are a number of factors at work..
Light or not
What light
Recoil spring fatigue
Mag spring type
Mag spring fatigue
mag follower
ammo, power and bullet profile
And, perhaps what vintage frame you have.
There is obviously something going on, while many here have not seen any issues, there are whole departments that have, and have not,:confused: who knows. But it is enough to raise concerns. Even a few SME have raised an eyebrow.
If the rumors are true, even the new generation Glock has yet another mag update, and a new recoil spring arrangement.
If your G22 is running great, good for you, tuck this info away, and keep an eye out for problems.
For the record, I am not a Glock hater, other then being a tad big for me, I like them, and shoot them fine. I own 4 currently, all 9mm's though. I used to be very much a 1911 guy, and have moved on to mostly Glocks and M&P's. But, with the above list of variables, a g22, at least, to me, becomes more like a 1911.
I hope they get it right. I'm about to bring up the subject of weapon mounted lights, because I think its ridiculous to not have them. IF a change in springs, lights, and mags, makes it doable, I'm all for it.
Bob
Sounds like I am going to switch my bedroom gun to my G12SF. The G22 light issue really bothers me.
There are some VERY simple things you can do to keep you r Glock .40S&Ws from "kabooming".... Why the .40s? Internal pressure. A 9mm pistol has an internal pressure of about 15,000 psi during firing. A .45 ACP has about 18,000psi. A .40 S&W... 36,000psi.
OLDER Glock .40s had shorter front frame rails (internal, not light rails). This was updated around 2000-2001.
Guide rod assemblies..... They cost around $5.00. They are supposed to be changed every 5000 rounds. Change them every 3000, again they cost $5.00.
The actual history of the .40 S&W. Designed in 1989 to mirror loaded down 10mm FBI cartridges. Based on a 180gr bullet (hollow point) at 950 FPS (again 36,000psi). When you "heat up" your .40 S&W with smaller weight bullets (155gr, 165gr) you UP the pressure. This in combination with poor or improper maintenance will make the gun fail.
The two instances of .40 S&W "kabooms" I am aware of were from Glocks with the shorter frame rails, poor up keep and guide rods that had over 5000 rounds on them, using 155 gr ammo..
Keep your G-22 clean, replace the guide rod assembly often and use standard velocity 180gr ammo and you will have a very reliable and very hard hitting defense pistol.
A 9mm pistol has an internal pressure of about 15,000 psi during firing. A .45 ACP has about 18,000psi. A .40 S&W... 36,000psi.
SAAMI specs. for the 9mm and .40 are both 35,000psi rounds, and .45 ACP is 21,000 fps. 9mm +P is around 38,500.
I carry a G23 every day and have a few of G22s around the house for "homeland security." Also have a G35 for fun/competition. Between them all we probably see 4-5000 rounds go down range each year and have never had a problem with any of them.
Kentucky Cop
11-05-09, 20:20
I have carried a Glock 22 for 10 years now. Several snow storms, Thunder Storms, fires and not to mention it saved my life twice. I have never had any problems with it even with minimal cleanings. Wouldn't carry anything else.......because my department wont let me. ;)
Ky Cop
As Vlad pointed out, the SAAMI MAP for both 9mm (standard pressure) and .40 S&W are 35,000 psi. 9mm +p is 38,500 and thus higher than any .40 S&W ammo is supposed to be.
Because of the limited space capacity of a .40 S&W case -- especially when loaded with a 180gr bullet -- it's easy to overseat the projectile through poor manufacturing QC or through multiple chamberings of the same round and cause substantial pressure spikes.
RAM Engineer
11-05-09, 22:15
Because of the limited space capacity of a .40 S&W case -- especially when loaded with a 180gr bullet -- it's easy to overseat the projectile through poor manufacturing QC or through multiple chamberings of the same round and cause substantial pressure spikes.
And now they have 200gr loadings floating around...
http://le.atk.com/ballistics/speer/detail.aspx?loadNo=53883&firearm=2
http://le.atk.com/ballistics/speer/detail.aspx?loadNo=53884&firearm=2
http://le.atk.com/ballistics/speer/detail.aspx?loadNo=53882&firearm=2
http://le.atk.com/ballistics/speer/detail.aspx?loadNo=3590&firearm=2
Anyone with a fairly high round count 3rd Gen with a light attached?
Issued a G22 at the academy in 2006. The gun had frequent failures to feed. Sometimes the gun would go into battery as soon as I hit the magazine, sometimes remediation was more involved. This would happen with FMJ, JHP, and dummy rounds. They gave me new mags, but that didn't stop it from malfunctioning. Then, they polished the feed ramp. Still no joy.
On my own (post graduation) I dropped in a new, factory recoil spring. The gun still malfunctioned. It was sent back twice to our maintenance facility. They replaced everything they replace during preventative maintenance (springs mostly) and returned the weapon to me. A few days later during a USPSA match... two separate FTF's. I sent it back and told them to keep it or I'd throw it in the river. They called me to insinuate the malfunctions were shooter induced.
After assuring them that my G27 doesn't do this, and neither do any of the other various Glocks I've shot (including the G22, gen 2 loaner I was using)... and that I shoot at least monthly as a hobby, they finally issued me a new G22. So far, the new one seems to run fine, and it now has a SF X300 on it constantly. It's no HK USP, but I trust it.
Funny thing though... had I known about all the issues with G22's before the academy, I would have been inclined to sandbag my performance until they gave me a G17. Oh well, live and learn. The minute they authorize another option for on duty (M&P is what I pray for daily), I'll be buying a full size and compact. I don't hate Glocks... I just don't care for them.
SWATcop556
11-07-09, 00:28
Anyone with a fairly high round count 3rd Gen with a light attached?
At my old department. I had about 8-10k in two years running an X200A before I went over to the Sheriff's Office.
What info are you looking for?
At my old department. I had about 8-10k in two years running an X200A before I went over to the Sheriff's Office.
What info are you looking for?
Have you (or anyone you know well) had any problems?
Joe Mamma
I'm curious what people's individual experiences with this platform are. Both the good and the bad.
SWATcop556
11-08-09, 02:39
Have you (or anyone you know well) had any problems?
Joe Mamma
I didn't have too many problems while I was issued one but like I said in my first post in this thread, I was very aware of the problems that had been reported and I was on top of my maintenance schedule.
I religiously changed recoil springs every 2000-2500 rounds and made sure I was running the latest version of the follower. I also downloaded my mags by one round. Not sure it helped but added to piece of mind.
Where I had issues was shooting training FMJ ammo. We were issued Speer Lawman to compliment the Gold Dot duty ammo.
I had several FTF and stovepipes, but more of the FTF. A quick Tap/Rack would fix the problem (most of the time just the Tap was necessary).
Other officers that were not as on top of their maintenance had nothing but issues with FTF.
It got bad enough that not long after I left the Chief sent out a memo that officers were no longer allowed to use weapon mounted lights due to the malfunctions. Since then I think the problems have gone way down, but are still there.
The only reason I carried one was because I had to. As soon as I didn't have to, I didn't. Hopefully the new recoil system in the 4th Gen Glocks will have fixed this issue.
I've posted my experiences both here and at Lightfighter.
We had a run at transitioning to the G22 in 2006, no-go, guns didn't run. At the same time Indiana State Police also had issues. We both went with the G17 to get guns that run.
This is not a new issue, or a fixed issue, or an ammo/light/magazine/"limp wrist" issue.
Most recently Milwaukee dumped the G22 for the M&P, and for good reason.
I note with some interest that the new "4th generation" G22s have a double nested recoil spring modeled after the G26/27 recoil spring.
I told our Glock guys in 2006 they either needed more spring or to start using the G37 style slide, or both, as the slide was running way too fast.
Anyway, minimal searching will get you more than you likely care to read on the problems the G22 has had over the years.
I have put a lot of rounds through Glock 23's and 35's some years ago. I was quite accurate with both especially steel with the 35. Finally gave it up when I realized I just didn't like shooting .40. These days the only .40 pistol I would recommend for shoot-ability purposes is the M&P .40 which tames the .40 round quite well.
I have been around the Glock 22 and 35 (multiple examples with several high volume shooters) since around 2000. The following are my experiences:
I had a G35 that I put around 15, 000 rounds through with and without a M3. Shot it with everything from reloads to Cor-Bon 135 +p and never had a single malfunction.
I cracked the slide (under and to the rear of the ejection port) on a 3rd Gen 22 after about 18,000 rounds. No problems with it before then, and only light ever used was the M3.
Saw two more 3rd Gen 22's develop a crack the same location when they approached 20, 000 rounds. These were an instructors guns and they were rode hard and put up wet, so to speak. No light was ever attached and they were fed anything you can imagine. No malfunctions that I saw or had reported.
Saw a 3rd Gen 22 and 35 kaboom at over 30, 000 rounds through them. To be fair, they were competition guns using reloaded ammo and I am aware that they were not maintained well by the shooter (few if any spring changes, and infrequent cleaning).
Fast forward to 2006 and I was issued a NIB 3rd gen 22 at an Agency that I worked at part time. At this time I had started running an X200A. I began to experience multiple failure to feed malfunctions with the light attached. This happened with 180 and 165 gr ball and 165 gr Federal HST. There were no issues when the light was not attached. I put 1500 rounds through the weapon total. I carried it without a light and had no further issues.
Earlier this year I came to my present agency that issued 3rd gen 22 and 27's to personnel. I was appointed as armorer and went through all of the guns. They were purchased between 7-9 years ago and were the E series prefix. Some had problems with lights and others did not. Issue ammo was 165 gr ball Lawman for practice and 165 gr Gold Dot for duty. It use to be 180, but there were malfunctions with lights and the Chief transitioned to the 165 gr round.
My first order of business was to prohibit weapon mounted lights, and be granted permission to carry my HK45 and or G19. We had no malfunctions from any of the weapons after this. We ordered a G22RTF2 for t&e and had no problems with a X300 mounted in about 500 rounds. After reviewing a number of things I was able to convince the Chief to transition to Glock 17, 19, and 26.
We got the RTF2 models in 17 and 19 with an Officer choice of Glock night sights or XS 24/7's. Issue load is 147gr Federal HST. Range scores increased dramatically with nearly half of the Department qualifying expert at POST standards. Weapon lights are re authorized and we have several guys carrying the TRL1 or X200/X300 on the gun. If the budget allows we will issue lights as standard to road patrol next year.
The G22 is hit or miss in my experience when you add a light. I do not care for the 40 S&W round personally and very much dislike it in the Glock (a box of ammo and my right wrist begins to hurt-it has been broken several times). I have no issues with the other Glocks, especially in 9mm. I am very happy with my Officers progress with the new 9's and morale is through the roof.
If you have a 40 cal Glock that woks with or without the light and with everything that you throw at it I am happy for you and hope it continues to work well for you. If you don't .............
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.