View Full Version : What Is Happening At Ft. Hood?
Bad news. Can't get any real information about it yet.
Any updates would be appreciated.
Preliminary reports is that 7 dead and 12 others wounded. 2 shooters, one reportedly in custody.
God help those people.
I found this when I searched....
http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/69305427.html
Fox News has just released that one is in custody and one on the loose with possibly one other shooter....
Just watching Fox News
Sounds really bad.
Post is in lock down.
Now they are saying 3 shooters. Sounds like an effective Ft. Dix scenario.
Hoping someone a bit closer to the situation can tell us what the **** is going on.
Thomas M-4
11-05-09, 14:58
reports are 3 shooters now.
John_Wayne777
11-05-09, 15:03
Homegrown terrorism will, I fear, be the preferred method of the future. Active shooter scenarios produce reliable headlines and body counts largely because most places in this nation are completely unprepared to properly deal with them.
reports are 3 shooters now.
Yeah, they aren't saying if this is official. Not sure whether this is the 2nd suspect shooting (again), or if it's a 3rd shooter.
Although the situation is horrible, I couldn't help but laugh at the fact that CNN stated the shooters were carrying F-16s.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572305,00.html
At Least 7 Dead, 12 Wounded in Shooting at Ft. Hood in Texas
Thursday , November 05, 2009
DEVELOPING: A mass shooting at Ft. Hood military base in Texas has left at least 7 dead and 12 wounded and one suspected gunman is on the loose, officials told Fox News.
A massive manhunt was under way for the suspect at large, Fox News confirmed. One person was in custody. The New York Post said that there were two shooters at the Army base massacre.
The attack apparently happened at the base's Soldier Readiness Center. Army officials didn't know whether the victims were civilians or military personnel.
Other media reports said the number of victims remained unclear.
The men were reportedly dressed in Army fatigues, but military officials couldn't confirm that they were Army personnel.
The base and area schools were on lockdown after the mass shooting, and all those on the Army base were asked to gather for a head count.
The FBI was en route to Ft. Hood to provide assistance.
Reports were going along with the 3 shooter scenario, and saying possibly one shooter holed up in the 42006 bldg on post. That may be the one in custody. Report on NBC says some victims were shot at a building near/next to the theater where a graduation service was to occur.
DRUDGE now reporting 2 in custody and 4 SWAT officers injured--20 total injuries.
Prayers for the fallen , their families , and friends.
AQ has planned for these style of attacks on US Military bases for some time and I'm going to guess they finally pulled on off :mad:
Prayers go out to those service members and their families.
geminidglocker
11-05-09, 15:51
I can't beleive this shit, but these are the days in which we live. The only three years of my life, that I did'nt CCW, were those spent in Garrison in the Army. I felt naked, I can go fight in Iraq, but I come home and can't be trusted to CCW on post??? It always struck me as such bullshit! I was always saying something like this would happen, seeing as how easy it was to get on post, and how us soldiers were only allowed to keep our guns in the arms room. Maybe someone will finally see the light? Doubt it. They'll probably just make it harder for soldiers to own personal firearms. When Israel began giving their school teachers Uzis, school shootings became a thing of the past. "Gun Free" zones are the only places Cowards go to pick on folk. It's a simple equation.
Prayers sent to the victims and their families, and to all those affected by this BULLSHIT.:(
Outlander Systems
11-05-09, 16:04
I just walked in the door and saw this on Cavuto.
What the ****, over?
John_Wayne777
11-05-09, 16:06
Shooter showed up in the ready center, where people are processed for deployment, and opened fire.
Shooter was a soldier. Two more arrested as suspects. Eye witness accounts say more than one shooter, they are investigating.
Belmont31R
11-05-09, 16:06
I can't beleive this shit, but these are the days in which we live. The only three years of my life, that I did'nt CCW, were those spent in Garrison in the Army. I felt naked, I can go fight in Iraq, but I come home and can't be trusted to CCW on post??? It always struck me as such bullshit! I was always saying something like this would happen, seeing as how easy it was to get on post, and how us soldiers were only allowed to keep our guns in the arms room. Maybe someone will finally see the light? Doubt it. They'll probably just make it harder for soldiers to own personal firearms. When Israel began giving their school teachers Uzis, school shootings became a thing of the past. "Gun Free" zones are the only places Cowards go to pick on folk. It's a simple equation.
Prayers sent to the victims and their families, and to all those affected by this BULLSHIT.:(
Indeed.
Our base security in Germany was very tight until they switched over to civilian guards. They used to have the German mil guarding our post, and they had pill boxes and roving patrols. Then the civilians took over and you'd be lucky to see them out of the guard shack.
At Ft. Lewis there were many back roads and trails you could get on post through... I imagine Ft. Hood probably has a lot of back trails and much the same.
Sad to see this happen but these sorts of things always seem to happen in "gun free zones" with heavy restrictions.
geminidglocker
11-05-09, 16:06
Oh great, three soldiers. Hang them by their balls.
John_Wayne777
11-05-09, 16:08
Two weapons...both handguns.
One civilian police officer among the dead.
Outlander Systems
11-05-09, 16:08
Shooter was a soldier.
"The individuals involved were U.S. Soldiers" - Fox News/Army Spokesman
Now I *am* shocked. It explains how they got on post.
Latest news brief, a 4 star general confirming it was US soldiers as the suspects
Two weapons...both handguns.
One policeman from Ft. Hood among the dead.
JW, you must be watching Gen. Cone's press conference too.
I am just throwing this out there, but going on a shooting spree at an ARMY BASE WHERE THEY HAVE ****ING TANKS AND MILLIONS OF ROUNDS OF AMMO AND TONS OF M16's/M4's/lots of other guns, APACHE HELICOPTER, ETC... sounds like a bad idea in general and you would have to be pretty ****ed up in the head to try to pull it off. I have lots of friends down there though, hope they are all ok.
12 dead, 31 wounded.
Shooter was a Major.
SW-Shooter
11-05-09, 16:11
Great! Some loser that didn't want to deploy opens fire on true American HERO'S.
This will solidify to the left that deployments are taking a toll and bleeding hearts will say we need to get out of Afghanistan.
I believe it is an isolated incident from a coward taking the lives of those that had he had nothing in common with, having honor.
LtGen Cone reports 12 dead, 31 wounded, all in the readiness center. Gunman killed, 2 others arrested--are thought to be accomplices or other shooters...not clear on those. Cone reports gunman was armed with 2 handguns.
John_Wayne777
11-05-09, 16:13
12 dead, 31 wounded.
Shooter was a Major.
Didn't see that in the General's PC...
SW-Shooter
11-05-09, 16:13
I am just throwing this out there, but going on a shooting spree at an ARMY BASE WHERE THEY HAVE ****ING TANKS AND MILLIONS OF ROUNDS OF AMMO AND TONS OF M16's/M4's/lots of other guns, APACHE HELICOPTER, ETC... sounds like a bad idea in general and you would have to be pretty ****ed up in the head to try to pull it off. I have lots of friends down there though, hope they are all ok.
This ain't Hollywood pilgrim. It would literally take hours to mobilize. Post security is not like what is showed in the movies, for the most part it is MP's that respond, I'm sure there are an ample amount of them, but nowhere near what most Americans expect it to be.
That's what's being reported. Apparently had an "Arabic" sounding name.
John_Wayne777
11-05-09, 16:15
I am just throwing this out there, but going on a shooting spree at an ARMY BASE WHERE THEY HAVE ****ING TANKS AND MILLIONS OF ROUNDS OF AMMO AND TONS OF M16's/M4's/lots of other guns,
...that are kept locked up and that you aren't allowed to touch without 19 forms filled out and seven levels of bureaucracy to approve going near.
Yes, they have lots of dangerous toys there...but they stay secured and you sure as hell ain't allowed to walk around with a loaded weapon without specific authorization.
Military bases, oddly enough, can be fairly soft targets.
This is never going to make any sense, no matter who the bastards are.
kaiservontexas
11-05-09, 16:20
12 dead, 31 wounded.
Shooter was a Major.
A Major? Holy shit, excuse my language. I just heard they were soldiers on FOX about a minute ago, but nothing clearer then mud on the subject.
geminidglocker
11-05-09, 16:20
...that are kept locked up and that you aren't allowed to touch without 19 forms filled out and seven levels of bureaucracy to approve going near.
Yes, they have lots of dangerous toys there...but they stay secured and you sure as hell ain't allowed to walk around with a loaded weapon without specific authorization.
Military bases, oddly enough, can be fairly soft targets.
Exactly, like I stated earlier, a terrorists dream target.
The good news is that family quarters on post might be just a little rougher for the bad guys.
kaiservontexas
11-05-09, 16:32
Drudge Report, front page, Major Milak Nadal Hasan is one of the names. It sounds like 5th column type of stuff to me.
That's what's being reported. Apparently had an "Arabic" sounding name.
Major in the Medical Corps , by chance?
Could be other branches/jobs as well. Some folks , like MD's for example , with tons of civilian training/experience get rank faster than the rest of us.
That could shorten the lead time on a mole operation designed to spread the max possible distrust and provoke ugly backlash incidents.
Just a thought.
ETA: It's very good ( if the reports are accurate ) that a couple of the dirtbags have been taken alive. Hopefuly they will live long enough for a very detailed de-briefing.
John_Wayne777
11-05-09, 16:41
In the confusion those "dirtbags" could have simply been incorrectly ID'd by witnesses who were scared shitless.
John_Wayne777
11-05-09, 16:46
Kay Hutchinson is on Fox saying that it was in fact an officer...a major...one who was about to deploy. The name also apparently "tells us a lot". Templar's ID sounds pretty good.
In the confusion those "dirtbags" could have simply been incorrectly ID'd by witnesses who were scared shitless.
That's what I told the wife. Could be in the confusion MPs grabbed them by mistake.
Major Malik Nadal Hasan
I will surely not write what is going through my mind right now.
geminidglocker
11-05-09, 16:51
--Enough-- Templar
wow just wow....
I wonder how long planning for this has been going on, or if it was a freak thing? Im sure military base security will tighten up a bit more now, but damn it took something like this to happen?? one of our own guys?? on our own base, wtf.
QuietShootr
11-05-09, 16:55
Major Malik Nadal Hasan
I will surely not write what is going through my mind right now.
I'll say it: We're ****ed. We not only let the ****ing enemy IN our Army, we make them ****ing OFFICERS and give them ****ing TS clearances.
Whoever at the ****ing CCF approves someone named ****ing HASAN for a ****ing clearance needs to have their ****ing balls ripped off with a rusty ****ing handful of alcohol-soaked razor wire.
geminidglocker
11-05-09, 16:58
This thread is gonna' get hairy. I'll try to be civil, but I'm just so angry.:mad:
People, I'm pissed as well, but we DO NOT KNOW all the facts yet.
Until we do, watch the racial/religious stuff or you can take a break from the forum.
I'll say it: We're ****ed. We not only let the ****ing enemy IN our Army, we make them ****ing OFFICERS and give them ****ing TS clearances.
Whoever at the ****ing CCF approves someone named ****ing HASAN for a ****ing clearance needs to have their ****ing balls ripped off with a rusty ****ing handful of alcohol-soaked razor wire.
Maybe , maybe not.
ETA: Kinda like Kim , maybe? Is that a problem , too?
I'll say it: We're ****ed. We not only let the ****ing enemy IN our Army, we make them ****ing OFFICERS and give them ****ing TS clearances.
Whoever at the ****ing CCF approves someone named ****ing HASAN for a ****ing clearance needs to have their ****ing balls ripped off with a rusty ****ing handful of alcohol-soaked razor wire.
Easy dude, take it easy...
We currently have tens of thousands of middle eastern service members in the US Military right now and they do an outstanding job every day for this country.
Let's chill out.
John_Wayne777
11-05-09, 17:04
People, I'm pissed as well, but we DO NOT KNOW all the facts yet.
Until we do, watch the racial/religious stuff or you can take a break from the forum.
What he said, folks. There are a lot of possibilities here. Let's not jump to conclusions just yet.
This ain't Hollywood pilgrim. It would literally take hours to mobilize. Post security is not like what is showed in the movies, for the most part it is MP's that respond, I'm sure there are an ample amount of them, but nowhere near what most Americans expect it to be.
...that are kept locked up and that you aren't allowed to touch without 19 forms filled out and seven levels of bureaucracy to approve going near.
Yes, they have lots of dangerous toys there...but they stay secured and you sure as hell ain't allowed to walk around with a loaded weapon without specific authorization.
Military bases, oddly enough, can be fairly soft targets.
I understand both of those things, it just seems that since the potential is there and there are tons highly trained soldiers that a mil base would not be the best target. I am not in the mil, it just would be about the last thing on my mind to go attack.
QuietShootr
11-05-09, 17:05
Easy dude, take it easy...
We currently have tens of thousands of middle eastern service members in the US Military right now and they do an outstanding job every day for this country.
Let's chill out.
Oh, I'm :cool:. I'm just saying.
It is foolish to think the war won't be fought here as well.
In the confusion those "dirtbags" could have simply been incorrectly ID'd by witnesses who were scared shitless.
Absolutely.
And first reports are often wrong , OK -- maybe usually is 'a' better word. Especially when the newsies get all breathless and in a big hurry.
The hospitals in the area around Ft Hood are in desperate need for blood. If you can give this would be a great way to help.
Thomas M-4
11-05-09, 17:16
Any info if this was his first deployment?
Heard on Fox that the major was a recent convert to islam...
SW-Shooter
11-05-09, 17:17
Oh no, a MUSLIM shooter.
People, I'm pissed as well, but we DO NOT KNOW all the facts yet.
Until we do, watch the racial/religious stuff or you can take a break from the forum.
Easy dude, take it easy...
We currently have tens of thousands of middle eastern service members in the US Military right now and they do an outstanding job every day for this country.
Let's chill out.
One more time. Knock it off, we don't know all the facts.
Shooter was a Major in the Medical Corps.
Fort Hood is still on lock down, I wish they would start letting people out so they can go to Scott & White in Temple to donate blood.
Worth repeating:
The hospitals in the area around Ft Hood are in desperate need for blood. If you can give this would be a great way to help.
And nobody will give a shit about grandpa's name or where he went to church , or any of that stuff.
It's all red.
Outlander Systems
11-05-09, 17:30
"Homeland Security said it is still gathering information and that the “Army is taking the lead” as of now. FBI agents from Waco and Austin, Texas, are being deployed to the scene. The CounterTerrorist Unit said they have “no word” yet on whether this incident was terrorism-related."
"A senior administration official told NBC News analyst Roger Cressey that the suspect who was in custody was an Army major with an Arabic-sounding name. The official said the shootings could have been a criminal matter rather than a terrorism-related attack and that there was no intelligence to suggest a plot against Fort Hood."
As already stated, it's a bit premature to jump to conclusions.
NinjaMedic
11-05-09, 17:36
URGENT NEED FOR BLOOD DONATIONS
Due to the recent events on Fort Hood, we are in URGENT need of ALL blood types.
Please come to Scott & White Blood Donor Center and donate blood as soon as possible, we are located in Room 115 next the McLane Dining Room in the main hospital. We are open today until at least 7 p.m. and you can contact us at 254-724-4376 if you need any assistance on determining your eligibility to donate.
If you live in central Texas now would be a good time to take a day trip to Temple, TX.
My thoughts and well wishes are with everyone down there. Except the SOB(s) that did this. I wish I were closer so I could donate blood right now.
beyond the obvious tragedy, it has also ripped scabs off old wounds...
the LT killed by his soldier that is being mentioned in all the "past violence at Ft Hood" stories was engaged to one of my best friend's sisters...just when you think they can move on...
ThirdWatcher
11-05-09, 17:52
Here's an irony: One of my young warriors is based at Ft. Hood, but is deployed in Iraq now. She IM'ed me (from Iraq) to let me know of this. I turned on the TV & relayed what info was available to her. The miracle of modern technology.:)
Powder_Burn
11-05-09, 17:58
I checked and Maj. Hasan was a Psychiatrist who graduated from the University of Damascus and had licenses in both Virginia and Maryland to practice. Wonder if he is a Syrian or Jordanian national...
parishioner
11-05-09, 18:20
Has anyone thought about the fact that today is Guy Fawkes Day?
"Remember, Remember the Fifth of November."
Poem:
Remember remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
Should ever be forgot...
I checked and Maj. Hasan was a Psychiatrist who graduated from the University of Damascus and had licenses in both Virginia and Maryland to practice. Wonder if he is a Syrian or Jordanian national...
Really? Because Fox News just reported that he graduated from VA Tech and got his doctorate from the military in 2001.
There's a retired Colonel on Fox right now who served with the guy saying that the suspect made comments sympathetic to the shooter at the base in Arkansas, and comments related to supporting "Muslims fighting the invaders" in the Middle East.
goodoleboy
11-05-09, 18:32
Too many combat deployments, too much combat per deployment, too much stress over too long a time isn't a good thing.
QuietShootr
11-05-09, 18:34
Too many combat deployments, too much combat per deployment, too much stress over too long a time isn't a good thing.
Really? That's what you think this was?
Outlander Systems
11-05-09, 18:38
Too many combat deployments, too much combat per deployment, too much stress over too long a time isn't a good thing.
I don't think the "Doc" was kickin' in too many doors, bro.
I don't think you have to be kicking in doors to be impacted by what is happening over there.
And that may or may not be what cause this. lets be honest, we have enough psychos as it is. The recent terrorism scare is bad but we had Americans killing Americans long before that and will long after this is passed. Oklahoma City is a great example of how we manage to do just fine killing ourselves even without religious or cultural issues.
MSNBC reports the two other suspects released.
This is a prime example of the maxim: The First Reports Are Always Wrong. At this time, I have seen a number of errors, misstatements, and misinformation - from so called journalists.
Multiple perpetrators carrying F-16's?
I'll wait for the after action reports in the next few weeks. long after the shock media and internet speculators have moved on.
My prayers to the families, soldiers, and LEO's.
Fox news interviewed a family member of the shooter who related that he was facing his first and only deployment to date.
SeriousStudent
11-05-09, 19:10
Prayers sent for the fallen warriors, and their families.
God bless all those, military and civilian, that charged in to the sound of the gunfire, to try and stop it.
And may the Devil have an extra bag of coal in the furnace for the murderer. :(
RogerinTPA
11-05-09, 19:14
I don't think the "Doc" was kickin' in too many doors, bro.
He was a psychiatrist, counseling soldiers coming back from a combat tour. He is US born. A family member (cousin) told Shepard Smith, that the Major has always been a Muslim, all his life. A fellow officer (retired COL who worked with him in the past) stated that the Major became disenchanted about the War, being quite agitated and vocal about it to fellow soldiers. He felt the Muslims in Iraq and Astan should be left alone and hoped that POTUS would withdraw the troops in both theaters. He just got deployment orders. He hasn't had a combat tour.
Prayers sent for those who lost their lives, as well as for their families.
Epic FAIL on the POTUS' behalf.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0hiw8iXdMM
Doesn't talk about the shooting until about 2:30 into the vid.
Prayers sent to the victims families. Sad, very sad.
Epic FAIL on the POTUS' behalf.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0hiw8iXdMM
Doesn't talk about the shooting until about 2:30 into the vid.
im surprised he actually even got around to even bringing it up...sigh. I will refrain from ranting about my thoughts on him at the moment.
Again, a very sad day indeed, and prayers to the families involved.
Epic FAIL on the POTUS' behalf.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0hiw8iXdMM
Doesn't talk about the shooting until about 2:30 into the vid.
But he had time to give a "shout out".:rolleyes:
Prayers for the injured, their families, and the families of the fallen. :(
The Shooter is still alive and in custody? Is that right?
IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA
Georgie Boy
11-05-09, 20:34
Yup... dude's alive and so is the lady cop who was injured while shooting him
Yup... dude's alive and so is the lady cop who was injured while shooting him
I wish they'd comment on that...
CNN and Fox News both haven't said anything (in the times I've been switching back and forth) to hear that 1) it was a female officer and 2) she's alive. I had heard on Fox that the officer who shot him was among the casualties.
Hannity just said he acted alone, and used a semi automatic weapon. (didn't specify with handgun or rifle).
Georgie Boy
11-05-09, 20:53
I wish they'd comment on that...
CNN and Fox News both haven't said anything (in the times I've been switching back and forth) to hear that 1) it was a female officer and 2) she's alive. I had heard on Fox that the officer who shot him was among the casualties.
Hannity just said he acted alone, and used a semi automatic weapon. (didn't specify with handgun or rifle).
The Col. ended up saying that during his press conference a few minutes ago.
ThirdWatcher
11-05-09, 21:07
That was LTG Robert Cone (3 stars more than a colonel has).
Powder_Burn
11-05-09, 21:16
Really? Because Fox News just reported that he graduated from VA Tech and got his doctorate from the military in 2001.
There's a retired Colonel on Fox right now who served with the guy saying that the suspect made comments sympathetic to the shooter at the base in Arkansas, and comments related to supporting "Muslims fighting the invaders" in the Middle East.
Hmm. ABC reported that the shooter had physician licenses in both MD and VA. The Medical Boards in both MD and VA have online public databases folks can use to check physician credentials. I queried them and found...
A man by the same name in Virginia has a license that says this:
Licensee Name Nidal Hasan
License Status: Expired
Professional School Faculty of Medicine, Damascus University or Faculty of Human Medicine, Damascus University
Graduation Year 1990
A man by the same name in Maryland has a license shows this:
Nidal Malik Hasan, MD
Grad School: Uniformed Services University Of The Health Sciences F. Edward Herbert School Of Medicine - Bethesda MD
Year Completed: 2003
Medical, Osteopathic, or Podiatric Post Grad School
This record also shows a transfer to Ft. Hood and does not list prior education (i.e. Damascus University) but this data element is noted as being self-reported and optional as it relates to the public database.
Finding matching records in both VA & MA is interesting however name matching alone can't provide absolute confirmation. That said, it is common for physicians to practice overseas for years and then earn the required credentials to practice in the U.S. system later. The latest reports say he is a U.S. citizen of Jordanian decent so this is plausible.
Georgie Boy
11-05-09, 21:23
That was LTG Robert Cone (3 stars more than a colonel has).
Damn... i dropped the ball bad on that one. Think I've heard Fox's interview with Col. Terry Lee too many times.
SWATcop556
11-05-09, 22:05
Prayers for the fallen and wounded. I will bite my tongue until more details are known.
If this guy had such an issue with going on the deployment becuse his religious beliefs had become SOOO divergent from U.S. policy... Why did he not simply resign his commision?
I am pretty sure he was past his commitment required in trade for his medical training?
IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA
The reporting of this incident has been extremely poor.
So, is there any definitive proof Hassan survived? LtG Cone said the shooter was deceased. I haven't seen any media for a few hrs...
ThirdWatcher
11-05-09, 22:50
In his 2015 press conference, LTG Cone said Hasan survived, as did the LEO that shot him.
QuietShootr
11-06-09, 00:25
Oddly prescient:
Uncle Sam's Jihadists What's the U.S. military doing about radical Muslim soldiers? Not enough.
By Deanne StillmanPosted Thursday, March 27, 2003, at 2:39 PM ET
The most disturbing story of the war so far is the fragging at Camp Pennsylvania in Kuwait. According to news reports, on March 23, Sgt. Asan Akbar rolled a grenade into each of three tents of sleeping officers and senior NCOs of the 101st Airborne Division. Then he allegedly shot the soldiers with an automatic weapon as they fled from their tents. Two of them, a major and a captain, died, and 14 others were injured.
The episode is unsettling for a number of reasons, most of all because it exposes a fact about our military that commanders have tried their best to ignore: the presence of radical, anti-American Muslims in the ranks. Akbar, a convert to Islam, reportedly said when he was captured: "You guys are coming into our countries and you're going to rape our women and kill our children." It's increasingly clear that there is a small group of soldiers for whom anti-American fatwas issued in mosques around the world supercede the oath of loyalty they took to their nation.
Almost nothing is known about radical Islam in the ranks. Very little is known about Islam in the ranks, period. Today, there are somewhere between 4,000 and 15,000 Muslims in the U.S. military. The estimates are so vague because Muslims, like Jews, often prefer not to declare their religion, and the armed services don't require that declaration. Some American servicemen and women are Muslim by birth. Many are converts, and most of the converts are black Americans. It was during the first Gulf War that the U.S. military first grappled with the issues raised by Muslim conversion in the ranks: As many as 3,000 U.S. soldiers may have embraced Islam since then. Click here for more about the Islamicization of the military in Gulf War I.
For most of the Muslims in today's military—as for most of the Jews or Catholics or Baptists—religion poses no problem for service. They worship at different times and in different places than Christians or Jews do and have different dietary restrictions, but they're simply loyal American soldiers. The military does whatever it can to accommodate this growing group. In 1997, it opened its first permanent Islamic prayer center, the Masjid al Da'awah, at the Norfolk, Va., Naval Air Station. At least two dozen sailors attend weekly. In 1998, Fort Lewis turned a space that had been used for Catholic and Protestant services into a Muslim center.
Do some soldiers visit radical mosques? Do some follow the teachings of anti-American imams? There are no studies to answer this, and the military doesn't talk about it. But Akbar's alleged fragging and other recent incidents suggest that some Muslim soldiers have been radicalized. There are even indications that some may be infiltrating the military in order to undermine it.
At best, military monitoring of radical black Muslims has been sloppy. The last year has witnessed three incidents, including Akbar's, suggesting the radicalization of Muslim soldiers. Beltway sniper suspect and former Army Sgt. John Allen Muhammad converted to Islam in 1985, around the same time he moved from the National Guard into the regular Army, according to news reports. During the first Gulf War, Muhammad may have been involved in a fragging incident very similar to last week's. Muhammad allegedly pulled the pin on an incendiary grenade in a crowded tent near the Iraqi border, setting a sergeant's sleeping bag on fire. No one was injured, but Muhammad was removed from the 84th Engineering company by MPs. "We assumed he was locked up," recalls a Marine who serviced with him. "Evidently that wasn't the case." It is not clear what, if any, punishment followed. Like Timothy McVeigh, another domestic terrorist who graduated from the Gulf War, Muhammad soon slipped back into the population and ultimately introduced the deadly combo platter of his military training, politico-religious views, and psychosis to the taxpayers who paid him to serve his country.
Shortly before Muhammad's murder spree, a black American Muslim named Jeffrey Leon Battle was among those arrested in Oregon, one of a group called the Portland Six accused of ties to al-Qaida. Battle was a former Army Reservist. According to the Justice Department, he planned to wage war against Americans in Afghanistan and may have joined the Army Reserves in order to learn how to kill American soldiers. And in May 2002, the feds arrested a Seattle-based Muslim cleric named Semi Osman as part of an investigation of a terrorist training camp in Oregon. Osman, a mechanic in the Navy Reserves, had access to fuel trucks similar to the type used in the 1996 bombing of the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia, which killed 19 U.S. airmen. In January, he pleaded guilty to a weapons charge.
One of the weirdest stories of a radical Muslim is that of Ali Mohamed. According to various reports that surfaced after 9/11, Mohamed came to the United States in 1986 while he was a major in the Egyptian army, and secretly, a member of Islamic Jihad. After marrying an American, he enlisted in the U.S. Army and rose to the rank of sergeant. A busy soldier, he taught a class on Islamic fundamentalist perceptions of America to special forces at Fort Bragg, N.C., and also taught at the JFK Special Operations Warfare School where he stole classified military documents. After he was discharged from the Army in 1989, he hooked up with Osama Bin Laden's nascent al-Qaida operation. Using his new American passport and connections, he spent the '90s traveling around the world helping plot terror operations. The FBI finally arrested him in 1998, and he eventually pleaded guilty to conspiring with Osama Bin Laden to attack Western targets.
Even after the arrests of John Allen Muhammad, Jeffrey Leon Battle, and Semi Osman, alarm over jihadists with American military backgrounds has not been not widely sounded. "I'm shocked," former Gen. Wesley Clark told CNN after news of Akbar's alleged fragging broke. "I'm shocked," said the other military commentators on all the other networks.
Were they really? I hope not; as military men, they should have known what was going down in the ranks. But as high-profile members of the media, they were probably afraid to risk offense by speaking the truth, which is that a small number of anti-American Muslim soldiers endanger their brothers-in-arms and tarnish the reputation of Muslim soldiers generally.
Does the existence of a few poisonous soldiers mean that all Muslims in the military should be deployed to the sidelines? Of course not: That kind of silly response is exactly the prejudice that radical Islamists would like the United States to practice. It does mean that radical Muslims in the service, to the degree that they make themselves known or can be found out, should be treated differently. Civilians don't have to sign loyalty oaths, but servicemen and women do. And they should be held accountable. At the first sign of a problem, they should be told to step away from the weapons.
Certainly, the military can do a better job screening its recruits. Sgt. Akbar is a vivid example of this. He evidently had ties to the Wahhabi sect of Islam that has been the breeding ground for so many anti-American Islamic terrorists. Akbar attended the University of California at Davis, a school that has a very active chapter of the Wahhabi-sponsored Muslim Students Association. According to reports, Akbar's mosque in Los Angeles is partially funded by Saudi Arabia's Islamic Development Bank, which promotes Wahhabism. A college professor described Akbar as having a "chip on his shoulder" about Islam, and according to the news reports, he was permitted to guard a munitions depot even after he had displayed a so-called "attitude problem." Now, at least, recruiters and commanding officers should realize that these are signals they should heed.
Sad situation, it didn't have to turn out like that if there had been more people allowed to carry a gun.
If you have an MD or were accepted into medical school, uncle sam wants you, they're real hard up for any doctor they can get. I think you actually get commissioned as a Major right off the bat. Even still, for some reason I didn't think the military would give such a wide berth to a Muslim serviceman known for making weird statements. I don't begrudge anyone from a foreign country, another religion, or someone with a weird name... unless they're crazy and want to kill me, then I begrudge them plenty.
This is like the Beirut barracks bombing and USS Cole all over again. The weapon control policies are at their usual point of criminal negligence. Who knows, the administration might even push to put even more severe gun control on service members.
Belmont31R
11-06-09, 00:50
I have this program saved on my DVR... http://www.amazon.com/Triple-Cross-Penetrated-FBI-Fitzgerald/dp/B00164GE0O
This is the story of the most dangerous triple-agent in US history. Peter Lance, author of the highly acclaimed "1000 Years for Revenge and Cover Up", returns to uncover the story of Ali Mohamed, a trusted security advisor of Osama bin Laden who hoodwinked the United States for more than a decade. As Lance reveals for this first time, this one man served in a series of high-security position within the United States security establishment, as a Special Forces advisor, FBI informant, and CIA operative, while simultaneously helping orchestrate the al Qaeda campaign of terror that led to 9/11. In October 2000, after tricking three U.S. intelligence agencies for almost two decades, Ali Mohamed appeared in handcuffs and a blue prison jumpsuit in a Federal District courtroom on Manhattan's Lower East Side, where he pleaded guilty five times. His crimes included brokering terror summits, financing an attack on two Black Hawk helicopters, training jihadis in improvised bomb building and the creation of secret cells. And yet, for decades Mohamed had lived the life of a Silicon Valley computer executive. How did this evildoer move in and out of and around the U.S.? is just one of the questions answered. From the Able Danger scandal of the Clinton Administration to today's CIA Leakgate, Mohamed appears at nearly every crucial turn of America's terror probes. An important final piece to the 9/11 investigation, "Triple Cross" penetrates Mohamed's secret past and the dark reaches of Al Qaeda to reveal the danger that still threatens America and its internal security.
As a side note on my 2nd deployment we did have a muslim in my unit. He refused to go outside the wire... I dont believe he was a practicing muslim but just used it as an excuse to not have to put his life in danger. He was taken off his team, and left with the command group at Liberty the entire time.
ThirdWatcher
11-06-09, 01:07
Political Correctness with be the death of us.
Combat_Diver
11-06-09, 01:12
Troops can not legally carry concealed weapons on US military installations no matter if you have a CCW permit (Federal property). The building where the coward opened up as a pre deployment center where they go to get there medical/shots/dental/wills/power of attorneys/glasses taken care of. You usually go in either duty uniform or PT gear. I processed through there last year prior to deployment and its a converted gym. Seems the MAJ was upset about deploying to Iraq this month. i've been there 6 times already (Iraq) plus Afghanistan. He needs to be have a quick court martial and than face a firing squad! What he did was not a act of terroism but treason! Prays to the family and victims.
CD
Very sad news. He should be hung or sentenced to death by firing squad IMHO.
parishioner
11-06-09, 01:33
What he did was not a act of terroism but treason!
I know I said this earlier but I think it got overlooked. Does anyone think there is something to the fact that this was done on November 5th, Guy Fawkes Day? I mean...if not, that is one hell of a coincidence.
ThirdWatcher
11-06-09, 01:35
i've been there 6 times already (Iraq) plus Afghanistan.
CD
Thank You.
Wow, A muslim shooting UNARMED American soldiers? Big surprise huh? Are we at war? Yes we are. We are at war with an ideology. That ideology says they need to kill all of us infidels. Unless of course you still subscribe to the religion of peace theory, if you do I feel sorry for you. The only time I was without a weapon handy was when I was in the military. My prayers for the honorable dead and wounded, Hope you get your raisins a$$hole. (But he will live). The Crusades failed also and they did not invite the enemy into thier ranks. Are we at war? Really?
variablebinary
11-06-09, 02:35
Liberal news is spinning this as he was suffering from preemptive PTSD due to his high level of interaction with combat veterans.
Are you ****ing kidding me?
So this man was so jacked up about being deployed, and shooting Muslims, he instead decided to shoot American unarmed soldiers?
He's a coward, and a traitor and guilty of treason. He deserves the firing squad or worse.
parishioner
11-06-09, 02:44
Liberal news is spinning this as he was suffering from preemptive PTSD due to his high level of interaction with combat veterans.
Wow. So now you can get PTSD just by talking about combat!
Belmont31R
11-06-09, 02:50
Wow. So now you can get PTSD just by talking about combat!
I guess he had PRE-Traumatic Stress Disorder....:rolleyes:
Even after thousands of Americans killed on our soil in the last 15 years by muslims the left still refuses to acknowledge they are a real threat here at home.
Instead they blame it on America, Bush, the military, et cetera. **** no....can't blame it on a large segment of muslims that condone and carry out this ideology and acts of terrorism. Really makes me sick....
WASHINGTON — He prayed every day at the Muslim Community Center in Silver Spring, Md., a devout Muslim who, despite asking to be discharged from the U.S. Army, according to his aunt, was on the eve of his first deployment to war. On Thursday, authorities said Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, a 39-year-old Arlington, Va.-born psychiatrist, shot and killed at least 12 people at Fort Hood.
In an interview, his aunt, Noel Hasan of Falls Church, Va., said he had endured name-calling and harassment about his Muslim faith for years after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and had sought for several years to be discharged from the military.
“I know what that is like; I have experienced it myself while working as a bank executive,” she said. “Some people can take it, and some cannot. He had listened to all of that, and he wanted out of the military and they would not let him leave even after he offered to repay” for his medical training.
Army spokesman George Wright said he could not confirm the report of any request to be discharged.
As authorities scrambled to figure out what happened at Fort Hood, a hazy and contradictory picture emerged of a man who received all of his medical training from the military and spent all of his career in the Army, yet is accused of turning so violently against his own.
Nidal Hasan spent much of his professional career at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C., caring for the victims of trauma, yet he spoke openly of his deep opposition to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
He steered clear of female colleagues and, despite devout religious practices, listed himself in Army records as having no religious preference, co-workers said.
Medical training
Hasan, who was shot while being taken into custody, was reported in stable condition at a hospital Thursday night, authorities said.
Born at Arlington Hospital, Nidal Hasan graduated from high school in Roanoke. He enlisted in the Army after high school and attended Virginia Tech, majoring in biochemistry and graduating in 1997 before going on to get a doctorate in psychiatry from the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md.
From 2003 through last summer, he was an intern, resident and then fellow at Walter Reed, where he worked as a liaison between wounded soldiers and the hospital's psychiatry staff. He was also a fellow at the Center for the Study of Traumatic Stress at the Bethesda military medical school.
He himself had been affected by the physical and mental injuries he saw while working as a psychiatrist at Walter Reed for nearly eight years, according to his aunt. “Some people can take that, and some can't,” Noel Hasan said. “He must have snapped. They ignored him. It was not hard to know when he was upset. He was not a fighter, even as a child and young man. But when he became upset, his face turns red. You can read him in his face.”
Nidal Hasan “did not make many friends” and “did not make friends fast,” his aunt said. He had no girlfriend and was not married. “He would tell us the military was his life,” she said.
The psychiatrist once said “Muslims should stand up and fight against the aggressor” and that the U.S. shouldn't be fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place, according to a Fox News interview with Col. Terry Lee, a former colleague.
Looking for a wife
At the Muslim Community Center, Nidal Hasan stood out because he would sometimes show up in Army fatigues, said Faizul Khan, the former imam there.
“He came to mosque one or two times to see if there were any suitable girls to marry,” Khan said. “I don't think he ever had a match, because he had too many conditions. He wanted a girl who was very religious, prays five times a day, which is all very good.”
Hasan wrote in an application filed with a local Muslim matching service that “I am quiet and reserved until more familiar with person. Funny, caring and personable.”
“He was a very quiet and private person. I can't say that people knew him very well other than attending prayers,” said Arshad Qureshi, chairman of the board of trustees at the Muslim Community Center of Silver Spring. “You didn't see him attend anything — school for children or celebrations. He did not go out of the way to engage people. We have thousands of people who come through to pray; he was just one of them.”
A co-worker at Walter Reed said Hasan would not allow his photo to be taken with female co-workers, which became an issue during Christmas season when employees often took group photos. Co-workers would find a solo photo of him and post it on the bulletin board without his permission.
Wanted troops out
Lee told Fox News Hasan “was hoping that President Obama would pull troops out. … When things weren't going that way, he became more agitated, more frustrated with the conflicts over there … he made his views well known about how he felt about the U.S. involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan.”
And when he talked about fighting “the aggressor,” his fellow soldiers “should stand up and help the armed forces in Iraq and in Afghanistan,” Lee said.
Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Austin, told reporters after a briefing on the shootings that Hasan was born in Virginia to parents who immigrated from Jordan.
The congressman said Hasan “took a lot of advanced training in shooting.”
The major was polite and respectful, according to 1st Lt. Elizabeth Whiteside, who was treated by him at Walter Reed while recovering from a gunshot wound suffered while in Iraq.
Whiteside remembers the psychiatrist as serious. During his initial evaluation of her, she tried to make light when he coughed by saying, “Bless you.” The captain replied that he had coughed and not sneezed.
He was “like my sons,” Noel Hasan said, spending holidays and free time at her house. Hasan was unaware of her nephew's pending deployment, she said. “He didn't call or send an e-mail saying anything like that,” she said.
His last e-mail to her, she said, was a little more than a week ago “and it was just, ‘Hi, Aunt Noel. How are you doing?'”
awwwww... They called the poor little fella names...... booooo hooooooo. Hope he suffers like no one else ever has.
I know I said this earlier but I think it got overlooked. Does anyone think there is something to the fact that this was done on November 5th, Guy Fawkes Day? I mean...if not, that is one hell of a coincidence.
Not sure a muslim with family roots in jordan would celebrate an event pertaining to the UK, in Fort Hood Texas....... I'm goin with coincidence.
Liberal news is spinning this as he was suffering from preemptive PTSD due to his high level of interaction with combat veterans.
Are you ****ing kidding me?
So this man was so jacked up about being deployed, and shooting Muslims, he instead decided to shoot American unarmed soldiers?
He's a coward, and a traitor and guilty of treason. He deserves the firing squad or worse.
First let me say like all of you here that my thoughts and prayers are to the victims and their famlies. Inital reports from the press are always full of speculation so it is very important we try and not let our emotions get the better of us (one report I read stated some of the casualties may have been caused by friendly fire). If this man is resonsible, then I hope the court martial is swift and he gets a just punishment.
First let me say like all of you here that my thoughts and prayers are to the victims and their famlies. Inital reports from the press are always full of speculation so it is very important we try and not let our emotions get the better of us (one report I read stated some of the casualties may have been caused by friendly fire). If this man is resonsible, then I hope the court martial is swift and he gets a just punishment.
If that ends up being the case; it would be worse for those involved.
The reporting of this incident has been extremely poor.
Agreed. I spend a bunch of my time at work driving between stores and job sites and heard all the reports throughout the day on the radio. The early reports talked about multiple gunmen, possibly in US Army uniforms, one of which was dead, the rest still possibly on the loose. Later it went down to one gunmen, still dead, and 2 people that had been detained for a brief period but release. Finally once I got home the news was saying the shooter was alive and in stable condition.
PS Did anyone else hear the murderer's cousin talk about what a "good American" he was in an interview with Shep Smith on Fox News? He said it more than one time. I guess maybe he is still in shock, but to call a relative accused of treason and murder a good American I thought was very strange.
Jim Colborn
11-06-09, 08:06
[QUOTE= A fellow officer (retired COL who worked with him in the past) stated that the Major became disenchanted about the War, being quite agitated and vocal about it to fellow soldiers. He felt the Muslims in Iraq and Astan should be left alone and hoped that POTUS would withdraw the troops in both theaters. He just got deployment orders. He hasn't had a combat tour.[/QUOTE]
If he was disenchanted then he should have got the **** out.
The base commander at Fort Hood says soldiers who witnessed a shooting rampage that left 13 people dead reported that the gunman shouted "Allahu Akbar!" which is Arabic for "God is great!" before opening fire at the Texas post.
Now all we will hear is how good of a person he was, how he cared for his family, how he helped others, etc.
He knew what he was doing and this no good bastard will send eternity in the pitsof HELL and I for one am glad.
Thoughts and prayers goo out to the victims.
John_Wayne777
11-06-09, 08:32
So apparently the feds were on this guy for six months because of a pattern of displaying radical tendencies online...and his co-workers are now reporting that he was saying some truly ****ed up things at work.
...so now I expect that new regs will appear aimed at preventing the "next Hassan" but that will, in reality, serve to **** over some truly innocent Joe who has zero intention of walking into a deployment processing center and shooting everybody. The gift that keeps on giving.
The gift that keeps on giving.
The bad are always spoilers for the good. Just like with firearms.
I understand the dead may have reached 13....sigh. I posted this on a tx hunting forum I frequent. Some of the members are stationed there and had kids in school and were in a panic for info. I felt I need to pass along my gratitude here with all leo and military on M4:
Prayers up to all my amigo's in the middle of this and to the friends and family of the wounded and murdered.
I was in a supplier conference all day long and got hit in the face when I walked through the door late last night after dinner. Didn't think I would ever fall asleep and dealing with a bunch of mixed emotions over this.
It is my hope that this tragedy will wake the american people up again and realize the seriousness of the war against evil in which we need to secure victory at all cost. Remember, it is not a race of people, but a mind set rooted in pure hate and evil we are fighting. I also pray any person w/ terrorist actions idling inside are brought to the surface. I cannot imagine the betrayel so many are dealing with having one of their own sucker punch them. May the Lord bring peace.
The fact this monster is still alive is going to bring out the worst in some folks, so be prepaired for a rash of excuses how it is not his fault down the road as this unfolds.
Many, many heart felt thanks to all military and leo for doing what you do...words cannot effectively say how grateful this family is because of your sacrifice. This weekend will be bitter sweet as we enjoy our freedom.
Blessings,
Paul
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Business_Casual
11-06-09, 09:17
Liberal news is spinning this as he was suffering from preemptive PTSD due to his high level of interaction with combat veterans.
I still don't get this - why would a doctor be in actual combat? Wouldn't he be at a rear-area hospital? I don't mean to diminish what soldiers do in those areas, I'm just asking why anyone thinks a doctor would be "shooting" in theatre and how that could be used as an explanation.
M_P
I still don't get this - why would a doctor be in actual combat? Wouldn't he be at a rear-area hospital? I don't mean to diminish what soldiers do in those areas, I'm just asking why anyone thinks a doctor would be "shooting" in theatre and how that could be used as an explanation.
They are saying that just by interacting with the wounded he became mentally unstable.
CNN's short article on the female police officer that shot the terrorist.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/06/fort.hood.munley/index.html
CNN also has a convenience store video of the pajama wearing terrorist in the early morning before the massacre.
The_War_Wagon
11-06-09, 09:52
They are saying that just by interacting with the wounded he became mentally unstable.
I think by interacting with Mohammedism, it makes one unstable. :mad: 1 billion suicide-bombers-waiting-for-instructions can't be wrong! :rolleyes:
Continuing the example of "The first reports are always wrong." The alleged shooter is alive and in critical condition in hospital.
"A recent convert to Islam?" Other sources indicate the opposite.
Background on the individual claims 8 years prior service, still unmarried, a graduate of Virginia Tech where he attended ROTC. Let's see if that passes further examination.
As his views and writings become more clear, I expect concerned professionals can give us the nitty gritty on ethical conflicts and issues in his life.
Of course, the "Hang 'em High!" crowd may not want to focus on the touchy feely stuff and continue to rant. BUT - they'll continue to operate blind and never see those others right there in front of them.
Those with a preventative checks and maintenance view in law enforcement will study this for the tell-tale signs of a overall pattern. No, you don't have to live condition red in your green zone, but there will be a lot of folks who realize they were actually denying what was in their face - again.
It's the real tragedy that happens for months and years before the act.
Let's do a self check: Am I involved with the military to help define my own personality? Do I have trouble maintaining a long term relationship with the opposite sex? Are their ethical conflics that cause me to equate the courage of a terrorist act with the sacrifice of protecting my fellow soldiers? Do I somehow focus on triumph over adversity through violence?
Yeah, some of us may share those same alleged characteristics with others of more notorious fame. To point a finger, some point back.
Business_Casual
11-06-09, 09:56
I think by interacting with Mohammedism, it makes one unstable. :mad: 1 billion suicide-bombers-waiting-for-instructions can't be wrong! :rolleyes:
If you can't connect the dots...
That's actually the point I was hoping someone would make - that what this guy did doesn't rationally relate to deploying to combat. More rationally, it relates to him being unable to separate Islam from specific enemies, who happen to be Islamic themselves. In other words, he was a Jihadi himself, right? According to WMAL, the reason he was "counseled" at his Walter Reed job was he was trying to convert wounded soldiers to Islam.
M_P
I am sure that many, if not most, people will disagree with me here. But I feel there is a second tragedy here. That tragedy is that every time an event like this happens there is a backlash against real Muslims as well as the idiot fanatics.
I have a couple close friends that are devout followers of Islam. They see no reason you can not be a Muslim and a good American. Both came to this country when they were younger and consider themselves American through and through. I talked to one of them last night and she was as angry about this if not more so than I am. Her brother wants to to enlist right now but he is afraid of how it would look now if he did.
To me that is a tragedy, not on par with the loss of 13 lives and the injury to others. However it is sad that a good man who wants to serve his country is afraid to because of his background and religion.
However it is sad that a good man who wants to serve his country is afraid to because of his background and religion.
It's not just this incident that has the potential to create difficulty for this man should he enlist, it is the overall complacency of muslims around the world who just don't see terrorism as a priority. Apparently it is worse to draw a cartoon of muhammad than to deliberately blow up women and children.
That is his real enemy, and we have been burned by this fire more than enough times. We have every right to be cautious.
Business_Casual
11-06-09, 10:12
I am sure that many, if not most, people will disagree with me here. But I feel there is a second tragedy here. That tragedy is that every time an event like this happens there is a backlash against real Muslims as well as the idiot fanatics.
I have a couple close friends that are devout followers of Islam. They see no reason you can not be a Muslim and a good American. Both came to this country when they were younger and consider themselves American through and through. I talked to one of them last night and she was as angry about this if not more so than I am. Her brother wants to to enlist right now but he is afraid of how it would look now if he did.
To me that is a tragedy, not on par with the loss of 13 lives and the injury to others. However it is sad that a good man who wants to serve his country is afraid to because of his background and religion.
It does make one wonder, however, why you don't hear people shouting "Christ is Risen" before detonating an S-vest, though, doesn't it?
M_P
I am sure that many, if not most, people will disagree with me here. But I feel there is a second tragedy here. That tragedy is that every time an event like this happens there is a backlash against real Muslims as well as the idiot fanatics.
I have a couple close friends that are devout followers of Islam. They see no reason you can not be a Muslim and a good American. Both came to this country when they were younger and consider themselves American through and through. I talked to one of them last night and she was as angry about this if not more so than I am. Her brother wants to to enlist right now but he is afraid of how it would look now if he did.
To me that is a tragedy, not on par with the loss of 13 lives and the injury to others. However it is sad that a good man who wants to serve his country is afraid to because of his background and religion.
I completely agree.
Every religion has been used to justify horrific acts, be they intercine warfare and persecution between different "flavors" of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hindu vs. Sikh, etc.
Judge the man, and his deeds, and his twisted interpretation of his religion.
It does make one wonder, however, why you don't hear people shouting "Christ is Risen" before detonating an S-vest, though, doesn't it?
M_P
No, but there are plenty of examples of the same mentality in the Catholic Republican vs. Protestant Loyalist wars in Northern Ireland, as recently as 12 years ago.
Lets not trash the thread, and concentrate on finding out what happened at Ft. Hood and what set this shit bag off.
Edited to get back on track.
Religion aside, how stressful is it on a person to be counseling injured soldiers all day long? I know it can't be the same as actually being on the front lines but it seems to me that it can't be conducive to stable mental health.
Let's move on people.
It's like someone threw a rock in the pond and scared all the fish away...
:D
Continuing the example of "The first reports are always wrong." The alleged shooter is alive and in critical condition in hospital.
"A recent convert to Islam?" Other sources indicate the opposite.
Background on the individual claims 8 years prior service, still unmarried, a graduate of Virginia Tech where he attended ROTC. Let's see if that passes further examination.
As his views and writings become more clear, I expect concerned professionals can give us the nitty gritty on ethical conflicts and issues in his life.
Of course, the "Hang 'em High!" crowd may not want to focus on the touchy feely stuff and continue to rant. BUT - they'll continue to operate blind and never see those others right there in front of them.
Those with a preventative checks and maintenance view in law enforcement will study this for the tell-tale signs of a overall pattern. No, you don't have to live condition red in your green zone, but there will be a lot of folks who realize they were actually denying what was in their face - again.
It's the real tragedy that happens for months and years before the act.
Let's do a self check: Am I involved with the military to help define my own personality? Do I have trouble maintaining a long term relationship with the opposite sex? Are their ethical conflics that cause me to equate the courage of a terrorist act with the sacrifice of protecting my fellow soldiers? Do I somehow focus on triumph over adversity through violence?
Yeah, some of us may share those same alleged characteristics with others of more notorious fame. To point a finger, some point back.
Our opposition relies on the "touchy feely" response of the US (The Great satan ) as they describe us. As far as Law enforcement studies, see if you can get a copy of "Radical Islam" by MPOTEC, written by the best minds and investigators of the Pa State Police. It's an eye opener. (I'd post a copy but my copy is restricted) My wife used to work in a place with several people of the muslim faith. Now she doesn't. I've seen them "organizing" in some of our communities. I'll take my spot in the ranks of the "Hang 'em high crowd" No apologies.
Also, as far as fingers pointing back, My religion requires me to share my faith, If I can. Not kill or maim people if they don't listen or agree with me. Get yourself a copy of the opfors marching orders, read it and let me know how it makes you feel.
I am sure that many, if not most, people will disagree with me here. But I feel there is a second tragedy here. That tragedy is that every time an event like this happens there is a backlash against real Muslims as well as the idiot fanatics.
Define "backlash."
It's one of those words that could mean very different things to different people.
Define "backlash."
It's one of those words that could mean very different things to different people.
I think you know what he means, muslims will be treated with suspicion unfairly. As another poster stated we will look for a "pattern" from this attack. The pattern is pretty evident to me. Knowledge is power, read a koran sometime.
One of my Brothers was telling me just last night, before this happened, he was involved in a pursuit with a stolen vehicle. Vehicle crashed, four actors fled on foot. In the vehicle? Loaded weapons and copies of the koran. No hunting licenses, no blaze orange, no NRA hats or bumper stickers. Makes me wonder about the indiscriminate shooting we have in the hood. Baseless and unfounded? Maybe, maybe not.
maybe lefty news means when they say he had PTSD
Preparing Terrorist Suicidal Day ?
I am sick of news that has anything but sympathy for these kinda wack jobs
have to say prayers and thoughts go out to those families that have had their lives changed
maybe lefty news means
Preparing Terrorist Suicidal Day ?
I am sick of news that has anything but sympathy for these kinda wack jobs
Amen, Brother.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-06-09, 11:39
Great, the bastard is alive. I sure hope that they keep him in the military judicial system. I have a feeling in the civy system it is going to turn into "Blame a racist US Army" circus show.
Great, the bastard is alive. I sure hope that they keep him in the military judicial system. I have a feeling in the civy system it is going to turn into "Blame a racist US Army" circus show.
I initially felt the same way and was bitching about wasted money to bring to trial...being an optomist, we can always hope he'll name names of any others who may have the same tendencies.
If any of the media move into the "blame US racists" defense, I hope the backlash cannot be repaired. What an insult to the victims that would be....lets pray they use good judgement for their benefit.
I think you know what he means, muslims will be treated with suspicion unfairly.
If they get treated unfairly its probably because ordinary muslims don't speak out enough when "radical" muslims commit acts of terrorism. To me, their silence equals agreement with the act.
QuietShootr
11-06-09, 12:00
The Irish/English conflict by and large didn't result in mass shootings or car bombs being detonated in the US. It has about as much relevance to this as whether Tutsis butcher Hutus, or the other way around.
As a people, we've lost. When we have lost the will even to properly designate the enemy, it's just a matter of time.
The Irish/English conflict by and large didn't result in mass shootings or car bombs being detonated in the US. It has about as much relevance to this as whether Tutsis butcher Hutus, or the other way around.
It also has little to do with actual religion. The Catholic/Protestant "troubles" are not justified by religion. They are political and social problems where a convenient dividing line happens to be which religious group each side belongs to. The religion itself is not the driving force -- the social groupings as well as national identity politics is.
If they get treated unfairly its probably because ordinary muslims don't speak out enough when "radical" muslims commit acts of terrorism. To me, their silence equals agreement with the act.
Either that, or fear themselves to be victims of the radicals. Though I tend to agree with you in most cases, probably,
Fox news is reporting first hand accounts that this depressed officer started his spree by screaming "allah akbar" Damn, what a strange coincidence, huh? Also hasan was seen earlier in his traditional muslim garb, also a coincidence I guess. And yes when we fail to identify the enemy, thier victory is only a matter of time. How long will we be willing to trade at these rates of 12 to 1? (or more)? My wifes female ex co workers cheerfully recounted being trained in Libya on several weapons. Now she works in the US, at a daycare. When asked why she trained, or what she trained for she just smiled. Feebs were called, my wife no longer works there and has some training of her own.
Quote: "We don't know". Took less time to decide to say: "The Springfield police acted stupidly". :D
Oh and just added: Not sure if this was an act of terrorism. ???? No clue huh?
QuietShootr
11-06-09, 12:50
It also has little to do with actual religion. The Catholic/Protestant "troubles" are not justified by religion. They are political and social problems where a convenient dividing line happens to be which religious group each side belongs to. The religion itself is not the driving force -- the social groupings as well as national identity politics is.
Exactly.
I knew this day was coming. It was really only a matter of when.
Well, here are some things to look for over the next few days:
The MSM will work hard to make all sorts of excuses for Hasan. Of course, they will use their favorite whipping boy of PTSD.
Every effort will be made by the MSM do downplay this Muslim angle.
On the other hand, outfits like Talk Radio, Drudge, and perhaps Faux News will make sure to play up the Islam angle.
Mainly, listen to the accounts of people who knew him personally and worked with him. Even NPR did a story this morning on the people who knew him at WRAMC. It would appear that he has long been a terrorist sympathizer. He would often talk about Jihad and gave moral support to suicide bombers. The people who worked with him knew it and his superiors knew it. They use to joke that one day he might 'go off.'
So, at this point the question is, will we allow our political correctness to be the death of us or will we begin the purge?
The facts of Islam are well known. Anyone who wishes to read the Quran can. It's text is quite clear. My copy is from the Saudi Arabian Cultural Ministry. People who say that this is not the true Islam are simply in denial of the facts.
Of course, this will too will blow over and go away - much like the first time it happened when a Muslim soldier fragged a CP in the 101st in the early days of OIF. And, as sure as night follows day, it will happen again and again until we, as a nation, come to grips with the true nature of the threat.
And perhaps this deserves it's own thread? Should we start a list of all of the domestic Islamic terrorists?
The Asan Akbar the 101st guy, the 'Beltway Sniper' John Allen Mohammad, the Fort Dix 6, and now Hasan all come immediately to mind.
I am trying hard to hold my tongue here and not say things that will get me in trouble. But I have to know. What the hell do you mean by this.
So, at this point the question is, will we allow our political correctness to be the death of us or will we begin the purge?
If you mean track down terrorist then we can agree. But I have this sinking feeling that you mean more than that.
As a person who has read the Bible and Qur'ran. I find that both can be easily used to justify violence and both can be used to justify peace.
I knew this day was coming. It was really only a matter of when.
The MSM will work hard to make all sorts of excuses for Hasan. Of course, they will use their favorite whipping boy of PTSD.
Every effort will be made by the MSM do downplay this Muslim angle.
So, at this point the question is, will we allow our political correctness to be the death of us or will we begin the purge?
The facts of Islam are well known. Anyone who wishes to read the Quran can. It's text is quite clear. My copy is from the Saudi Arabian Cultural Ministry. People who say that this is not the true Islam are simply in denial of the facts.
And, as sure as night follows day, it will happen again and again until we, as a nation, come to grips with the true nature of the threat.
Well written, IMO.
As a person who has read the Bible and Qur'ran. I find that both can be easily used to justify violence and both can be used to justify peace.
I can appreciate your fair stance, but you are simply utilizing a flawed comparison here.
Either way, without somehow directly engaging the ideology behind these attacks we are always going to be prone to them. I'm sure you can understand this by now after all the kicks to the face this country has taken in the name of islam.
As a person who has read the Bible and Qur'ran. I find that both can be easily used to justify violence and both can be used to justify peace.
And yet, to quote Sesame Street, "One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong."
Sure, I guess the Bible COULD be used to justify violence, and in the past, in more socio-political contexts, it has.
Last coupla hundred years? Not so much.
No argument from me that we have taken a few hits. Although I would say they have been more to the groin than the face.
My point is that you strike back at the actual target and in the best way possible. When it is time to use a scalpel you don't break out the shotgun. Islam is not the enemy, Muslims are not the enemy. Radical Muslims who use their religion as a source of are the enemy.
You can not just crush, or purge, an entire people and call it done. Not only is it an act that is immoral but it isn't effective. I am a strong believer in having a Rifle in one hand and a book in the other. Kill the terrorist and teach the other.
The SoB who did this is a coward who has shown in the past that he was a threat. These indications were ignored by the power that be. And because of it we have many good men and women dead along with a number of others injured. In addition now every loyal and brave person in uniform who has olive skin and/or is Muslim will be put under the microscope.
I want to see this coward fry. I want to see him suffer, hell I would gladly pay to have a few minutes alone with him. But I don't want to see his crime lead to us committing one against other people.
Outlander Systems
11-06-09, 13:58
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c102:H.R.359.IH:
No argument from me that we have taken a few hits. Although I would say they have been more to the groin than the face.
My point is that you strike back at the actual target and in the best way possible. When it is time to use a scalpel you don't break out the shotgun. Islam is not the enemy, Muslims are not the enemy. Radical Muslims who use their religion as a source of are the enemy.
You can not just crush, or purge, an entire people and call it done. Not only is it an act that is immoral but it isn't effective. I am a strong believer in having a Rifle in one hand and a book in the other. Kill the terrorist and teach the other.
The SoB who did this is a coward who has shown in the past that he was a threat. These indications were ignored by the power that be. And because of it we have many good men and women dead along with a number of others injured. In addition now every loyal and brave person in uniform who has olive skin and/or is Muslim will be put under the microscope.
I want to see this coward fry. I want to see him suffer, hell I would gladly pay to have a few minutes alone with him. But I don't want to see his crime lead to us committing one against other people.
This is the perspective we seem to be using now. How's it working for ya?
I have to wonder with his beliefs which are coming out more and more that he was not a great American like his family wants to make him out to be !!
but a person who seems to sympathize with terrorists and might end up being one who was helping out the other side ????
so my wonder is the counseling he gave to TRUE PTSD people/soldiers coming back was it good ? or could he have put in underlying things into their psyche to make them stay guilty etc.. and not totally help them out ?
might he have tried to help them realize that in his twisted mind they were killing fathers like themselves and people just trying to defend their land etc...
as they say a mind is a good thing to mess with and if talked to hundreds and thousands of soldiers with PTSD could he have messed with them a bit ?
in my mind I would not have put it past a sicko like this to do things like this and one hopes that anyone who got any counseling by him goes out and seeks new counseling !!!!!
Islam is not the enemy, Muslims are not the enemy. Radical Muslims who use their religion as a source of are the enemy.
Absolutely. So.....what would be your solution?
You can not just crush, or purge, an entire people and call it done.
I agree, but you must also agree that we have been infiltrated by an unusual enemy, no matter how small the numbers, and therefore many of the usual rules are ineffective. Just one can take out many, and we surely know we have many more than just one simmering somewhere out there.
If islam continues to be used as a weapon against this country, then someone somewhere better find a way to deal with it before we have the first dirty bomb go off in it's name as well. No, not genocide, but some damn strong restrictions on those deemed appropriate via common sense (assuming that still comes into play these days).
We didn't ask for this, but with over a billion muslims out there, we sure as hell better find a way to deal with it.
Absolutely. So.....what would be your solution?
I agree, but you must also agree that we have been infiltrated by an unusual enemy, no matter how small the numbers, and therefore many of the usual rules are ineffective. Just one can take out many, and we surely know we have many more than just one simmering somewhere out there.
If islam continues to be used as a weapon against this country, then someone somewhere better find a way to deal with it before we have the first dirty bomb go off in it's name as well. No, not genocide, but some damn strong restrictions on those deemed appropriate via common sense (assuming that still comes into play these days).
We didn't ask for this, but with over a billion muslims out there, we sure as hell better find a way to deal with it.
Nicely said Brother. The usual response is more restriction on the innocent civilian population instead of dealing with the problem. 9/11/01 was a pretty good statement of thier intentions. All my moderate muslim neighbors were celebrating in the street. Trust them, Hell no.
We all agree that we need to do something. But what? Is every Muslim a suspect? Do we round them all up? Since you can't tell a persons religion by look alone should we focus on physical features. Should we ban Islam as a religion in the US?
There is no easy way to solve this without turning our founding principals on their head. And I know people say we have been doing it the way I say it should be done, but are we really? A guy with a known history of sympathizing with terrorist and he isn't under any sort of investigation? I am not we aren't talking about someone just not wanting to go to war.
Yes I want to stop terrorism, both domestic and foreign. But I am also not willing to give up any rights for myself or others to do it. If given the choice between safety and freedom there is no choice to me.
Nicely said Brother. The usual response is more restriction on the innocent civilian population instead of dealing with the problem. 9/11/01 was a pretty good statement of thier intentions. All my moderate muslim neighbors were celebrating in the street. Trust them, Hell no.
Where the heck do you live that those people are considered moderates? :confused:
NinjaMedic
11-06-09, 14:23
http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/blotter/entries/2009/11/06/cnn_surveillance_video_shows_a.html
Outlander Systems
11-06-09, 14:28
Yes I want to stop terrorism, both domestic and foreign. But I am also not willing to give up any rights for myself or others to do it. If given the choice between safety and freedom there is no choice to me.
Me either.
Again, there was plenty of opportunity to process this dickhead out. The failure here, and I'm being a little hot-headed, was by CID.
As well known as it appears to be, based on statements the quack made in the past, he should have been out-processed immediately.
As well known as it appears to be, based on statements the quack made in the past, he should have been out-processed immediately.
Totally agree. The evidence is mountainous even less than a day later. Somebody really dropped the ball.
Where the heck do you live that those people are considered moderates? :confused:
Pennsylvania. We are supposed to understand and accept them. They're people, just like you. The difference is thier religion gives them points for killing people, just like you. The Bible doesn't. Does it? I'll keep my religion, guns and freedom, Thanks.
Me either.
Again, there was plenty of opportunity to process this dickhead out. The failure here, and I'm being a little hot-headed, was by CID.
As well known as it appears to be, based on statements the quack made in the past, he should have been out-processed immediately.
Brother they promoted him! CO probably more worried about getting sued for discriminating against him for his beliefs than the safety of our kids. My nephew is in the Airforce. I hope he doesn't have one on these turkeys in his chain of command. What are the odds?
Homegrown terrorism will, I fear, be the preferred method of the future. Active shooter scenarios produce reliable headlines and body counts largely because most places in this nation are completely unprepared to properly deal with them.
Hey...if you are out there, you are a smart guy and I would be curious as to your opinion as to how to deal with this very troubling issue. Just genuinely curious, that's all.
John_Wayne777
11-06-09, 14:41
We all agree that we need to do something. But what? Is every Muslim a suspect? Do we round them all up? Since you can't tell a persons religion by look alone should we focus on physical features. Should we ban Islam as a religion in the US?
Of course not...but perhaps when we notice that there's an Army officer who seems to be highly pissed off that we're at war with radical islamists and who has a pattern of behavior that offers unflinching support for the people who are blowing up US troops perhaps we ought to ask some questions.
Business_Casual
11-06-09, 14:42
For those of us that CCW, and I realize the soldiers didn't have that option legally, we can learn some things.
1) Gun-free zones aren't
2) Always carry
3) Practice and maintain proficiency with your weapon
M_P
And yes Kwelz, there were hundreds of them in the streets having a great time. My UPS driver could not get through. The local Zone 4 guys called for backup and shotguns and were retracted. The moderates were allowed to celebrate until they were tired. By the way these mods were all here on a free ride from the state dept. going to medical school here on your taxpayer dime. I moved to a better neighborhood. My neighbors have pickup trucks and gun safes, oh and you can't look anywhere without seeing Old Glory flying. (National Id, bad?) :D
And yes Kwelz, there were hundreds of them in the streets having a great time. My UPS driver could not get through. The local Zone 4 guys called for backup and shotguns and were retracted. The moderates were allowed to celebrate until they were tired.
You have absolutely got to be kidding me.
You have absolutely got to be kidding me.
Sir, I wish I was. :(
Of course not...but perhaps when we notice that there's an Army officer who seems to be highly pissed off that we're at war with radical islamists and who has a pattern of behavior that offers unflinching support for the people who are blowing up US troops perhaps we ought to ask some questions.
Makes sense to me.
Go after the real problems. That Major at Hood , the Tim McVey wanna-be's , whoever shows that they need that kind of attention. I don't care what they look like , what religion or political ideal they pervert and claim to serve , or where their family came from.
It's about real world public safety.
QuietShootr
11-06-09, 15:14
No argument from me that we have taken a few hits. Although I would say they have been more to the groin than the face.
My point is that you strike back at the actual target and in the best way possible. When it is time to use a scalpel you don't break out the shotgun.
It's long past time to break out the shotgun.
Islam is not the enemy, Muslims are not the enemy. Radical Muslims who use their religion as a source of are the enemy.
Mm. Nope. Thanks for playing though. That line of reasoning worked well for Chamberlain, didn't it?
. 9/11/01 was a pretty good statement of thier intentions. All my moderate muslim neighbors were celebrating in the street. Trust them, Hell no.
Celebrating in the street on 9/11?!!
On my Grandmother's soul - there would have been a few less neighbors on 9/12.
QuietShootr
11-06-09, 15:17
Celebrating in the street on 9/11?!!
On my Grandmother's soul - there would have been a few less neighbors on 9/12.
Seriously, you didn't know about this? Really?
Here's a picture I took in Belfast a little while back.
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu47/QS338/IrelandMarch2008232.jpg
With apologies to Cromwell, I think he had the phrasing right, just the specifics were wrong. It SHOULD have read:
Islam is more than a religion, it is a political power
Therefore I am led to believe that there will be no peace in the world
until Islam is crushed.
Of course not...but perhaps when we notice that there's an Army officer who seems to be highly pissed off that we're at war with radical islamists and who has a pattern of behavior that offers unflinching support for the people who are blowing up US troops perhaps we ought to ask some questions.
If you look at my posts you will see that we are saying the exact same thing. It is a crime that this guy wasn't handled before this became a problem.
My problem is with those that see any Muslim as the enemy.
Your family will miss you dearly, my cousin Aaron. May you and your fellow soldiers enjoy your rest. Until next we meet, adeu.
FlyAndFight
11-06-09, 16:24
Your family will miss you dearly, my cousin Aaron. May you and your fellow soldiers enjoy your rest. Until next we meet, adeu.
My condolences, BackBlast.
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