View Full Version : 'Cop Killer' Gun Used In Ft. Hood Shooting, Officials Said
variablebinary
11-07-09, 01:20
Here we go...
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/cop-killer-gun-thought-ft-hood-shooting/story?id=9019521
'Cop Killer' Gun Used In Ft. Hood Shooting, Officials Said
Suspected Massacre Weapon Purchased Legally At 'Guns Galore' Shop in Texas
By MATTHEW COLE, PIERRE THOMAS, JASON RYAN, and RICHARD ESPOSITO
Nov. 6, 2009
The gun thought to be used in the Fort Hood massacre packs so much firepower, it's known as 'the Cop Killer,' federal law enforcement officials said.
Major Nidal Malik Hasan allegedly packed a FN Herstal Five-seveN tactical pistol, which according to federal law enforcement officials, was legally purchased from the "Guns Galore" shop in Killeen, Texas in Aug. 2009. The store's manager, David Cheadle, said that particular firearm can hold 20 rounds in a standard clip and take a ten round clip extension. Cheadle said with one clip and one round in the chamber, one could fire 31 rounds before reloading.
Hasan may have used an expanded clip in the shooting.
On FN Herstal's webpage, the benefits of the Five-seveN pistol note that it can "defeat the enemy in all close combat situations in urban areas, jungle conditions, night missions and any self defense action."
The second gun he had with him was a .357 S&W Magnum revolver, federal law enforcement officials tell ABC News. Ballistics are still being run to determine if he used the revolver in the shooting.
Federal agents, military investigators and Texas Rangers had been investigating whether the gun allegedly used by Hasan was purchased at "Guns Galare," Cheadle told ABC News.
"They called last night and asked about a specific name and gun purchase, but the name was not Hasan," said Cheadle.
Three investigators, including one wearing a Texas Rangers badge, were seen entering the store just before noon Friday. The manager said they were interviewing all of the store employees.
They declined to comment as they left Guns Galore in a car with Department of Defense markings.
The manager said he recognized a photo shown to him of Major Nidal Malik Hasan, identified by authorities as the suspect shooter at Fort Hood. But he said Hasan would have had to show identification if he had bought the gun in his name.
Cheadle said the agents were interested in a FN pistol that uses 5.7 caliber ammunition.
RancidSumo
11-07-09, 01:41
And it begins...
Are you friggin kidding me. If I ever make a gun I'm going to name it something like the Ultra Baby Skull Splitter just so the media has something ready for the headlines.
whiterabbit05
11-07-09, 02:11
And for the last time, it's not a clip, it's called a magazine...
At least they didn't call it an AK-47.
RancidSumo
11-07-09, 02:31
I'd bet that the .357 would have been just as deadly if not more so as the 5.7.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-07-09, 02:45
I'd bet that the .357 would have been just as deadly if not more so as the 5.7.
Not to get into a ballistics ball-buster, but I'd have to think that would be true, except I wonder if he thought he'd run into body armoured responders. Here I thought he had a couple of of 9MMs with FMJ and that is why there were so many thru and thru wounds.
guess it's time to ban guns from military bases. :confused:
NinjaMedic
11-07-09, 04:07
Wow I cant imagine the body count if he had been using a more lethal caliber with high quality ammo.
And for the last time, it's not a clip, it's called a magazine...
At least they didn't call it an AK-47.
Hate to say this, but that will not be the last time.
The media feeding frenzy will make every inquiry into the latest gospel. Very sad.
If I had to pick, I would rather have gotten shot by that evil hi-capacity, automatic, cop killing, armor penetrating, invisible on xrays, baby killing, resistant to fingerprints death ray with a shoulder thing that goes up then the boring old non-noteworthy .357 revolver.....
ThirdWatcher
11-07-09, 05:56
If there was any kinda "failure" here, it doesn't lie with FN Herstal or any gun dealer.
I think there's more to this story that we'll never know. In my opinion, this guys has received some training somewhere other than the US Army.
Who ever called it a "cop killer" must have been talking to that jackass out in LA that said that the five seven and P90 were used for hunting lions and tigers and bears.https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=35017&highlight=Lions+tigers
Where do these people come up with this crap?
Are you friggin kidding me. If I ever make a gun I'm going to name it something like the Ultra Baby Skull Splitter just so the media has something ready for the headlines.
Maybe you should have sent this name in for you idea to Wilson Combat;). Sure beats Spec ops 9
I think there's more to this story that we'll never know. In my opinion, this guys has received some training somewhere other than the US Army.
agree, i think too much thought is being placed into the cartridge itself, rather than the consideration of weekend jaunts to the local radical Jihad camp to take "tactical pistol for assholes". I dont get the feeling this slug was pulling 7oclock shifts during this rampage.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-07-09, 10:33
I saw some media report that he had 'extensive' handgun training in the Army. I don't know what that means. Did he qual with it or something? Train with Delta?
But to take a step back, why in this case are we supposed to not rush to judegment, but the cop in MA acted stupidly?
Maybe you should have sent this name in for you idea to Wilson Combat;). Sure beats Spec ops 9
Point! :cool:
John_Wayne777
11-07-09, 11:03
I think there's more to this story that we'll never know. In my opinion, this guys has received some training somewhere other than the US Army.
I'm thinking you're right.
Hopefully the guys who wear the big letters on their windbreakers will carefully trace this guy's history and find out where he learned jihad.
John_Wayne777
11-07-09, 11:06
I saw some media report that he had 'extensive' handgun training in the Army. I don't know what that means. Did he qual with it or something? Train with Delta?
But to take a step back, why in this case are we supposed to not rush to judegment, but the cop in MA acted stupidly?
The media assumes that the military gives "extensive" training, and that's more than likely where it comes from...that and a woeful ignorance of how much skill and ability it takes to shoot helpless people. As the story was unfolding I heard lots of talking heads say that the body count had to be the result of a group of bad guys...this despite the fact that VT was only a couple of years ago.
One worthless **** with relatively little firepower...and a guaranteed victim zone where nobody can shoot back...can rack up quite a body count before the cops can come and punch his ticket.
Blame the Army! He should have been discharged long ago.
Detective_D
11-07-09, 11:12
"cop killer" That is so sad.
Our department riddled a guy last week with several rounds from a P90 at close range.......he is in stable condition.
~D
John_Wayne777
11-07-09, 11:15
That's a fairly common complaint with the 5.7.
Of course, you have to factor in the SSS. (Scumbag Survival Syndrome) Things that will kill or greiviously maim a decent human being will be survived without problem by a scumbag.
Was flipping channels earlier and CNN was talking about the FN and said it is "Semiautomatic, basically an assault pistol". Great, now we have assault pistols to go with assault rifles.
Heavy Metal
11-07-09, 11:45
I for one want to know if a Law Enforcement Officer has ever been killed by a 5-7 pistol?
I only wonder why this guy was left alive? couldn't the cop who took him down unload another 5-10 rounds?
I'm thinking you're right.
Hopefully the guys who wear the big letters on their windbreakers will carefully trace this guy's history and find out where he learned jihad.
I have not been watching or reading the 24 hour news frenzy regarding this event, so pardon if this has been determined, and if so please let me know, but is there evidence that this guy's motif was political/religious? IE Jihad?
I did read somewhere that he was saying "Allah Achbar" the whole time...
I for one want to know if a Law Enforcement Officer has ever been killed by a 5-7 pistol?
That's a good question. I wouldn't know where to look it up, but I would be curious too.
The thing I find funny about this is the hype going towards the gun. If this guy would have acquired an M4 somehow while on base what would the reaction be? It'd be kind of hard to rant and rave about the gun in that situation, but I would be curious to see the media reaction. I'm sure someone would suggest the Army going back to using the M1 in order to insure that nothing like this ever happens again!
Edited to add this article I just found by the Washington Post regarding motif:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/06/AR2009110604351.html?wprss=rss_print
I only wonder why this guy was left alive? couldn't the cop who took him down unload another 5-10 rounds?
Well this is just speculation as I wasn't there, but news reports I have seen (yeah, I know...) have said that he was thought to be dead initially and was discovered to still be alive. I'm not sure why the woman who herself was hit in three different places (both legs and her wrist) would just stand over the guy and empty her mag into what she thought was a corpse.
I only wonder why this guy was left alive? couldn't the cop who took him down unload another 5-10 rounds?
I don't think it was this guy was "left alive".
There's way too many variables to say something quite like that, but maybe the officer(s) put their rounds center mass? Maybe one of them was wounded and they did the best they could off hand?
I mean we will never know 100%, but I wouldn't look at it to the point of he was "left alive". I'd look at it to the point of the first responders did what they had to do to stop him. He just happened to survive...
I don't think that the gun-grabber blame-it-on-the-ugly-gun mud sticks like did 15 or 20 years ago.
Even people who will never own a personal firearm are beginning to see the blinding flashes of the obvious. Most mass public shootings with high victims counts happen in "Gun Free Zones". That's the common thread .
Maybe the Colorado Springs serial murderer who encountered Jeanne Assam a couple years ago experienced a catastrophic intelligence failure. Maybe he thought nobody would have a gun in the church. IIRC , over 20 states prohibit CCW in places of worship. That's changing -- one by one.
"cop killer" That is so sad.
Our department riddled a guy last week with several rounds from a P90 at close range.......he is in stable condition.
~D
you guys use the civilian ammo? or the real stuff? :confused:
regardless seems like a weak caliber. p90's are pretty neat though.
ScottFarkus
11-07-09, 14:47
I was watching my local news last night and they had a feed from a guy in Texas. He was giving his report and said something like...the gun was purchased from a local shop here-in Mexico it is known as a "cop-killer" handgun-blah blah blah.
I looked at my wife and said "what the crap does that have to do with this report?"
Another "reporter" giving his .02
cougar_guy04
11-07-09, 16:05
And for the last time, it's not a clip, it's called a magazine...
At least they didn't call it an AK-47.
When I had Fox News on in the background, I heard the newscaster say something along the lines of , "He purchased an FN FiveseveN from (insert gunstore name here), now that's a very powerful 9mm handgun."
*facepalm* I just went back to prepping gear for my match.
Derf on MSNBC last night was saying something didn't add up that only one man with maybe two handguns could inflict that many injuries in that little amount of time.
I couldn't listen to his shit long enough to find out for sure what his point was but sounded like he suspected-
1. more guns were used
2. more gunmen
3. cops shot a lot of people too
Rachel Madcow was eating it up.
Blame the Army! He should have been discharged long ago.
Blame the Army. If all of the soldiers on base had been wearing pistols, this scumbag would never have tried this or would have been put down hard very quickly if he had. This idea that any place is "safe" needs to be retired, we can be attacked anywere. Disarming soldiers just because they are on a base just gives the enemy a location to attack.
Does anyone know if this slimeball was able to use his MIL credentials to get the restricted 5.7 ammo?
ThirdWatcher
11-07-09, 17:08
I for one want to know if a Law Enforcement Officer has ever been killed by a 5-7 pistol?
None. To the best of my knowledge, every LEO that has been murdered has been murdered by a bad guy (or gal).
John_Wayne777
11-07-09, 18:12
I have not been watching or reading the 24 hour news frenzy regarding this event, so pardon if this has been determined, and if so please let me know, but is there evidence that this guy's motif was political/religious? IE Jihad?
Well given that the media has managed to uncover that the guy has been bitching about US involvement in the middle east to anyone who would listen for years, that the feds had been investigating him for months because of online posts where he sang the praises of suicide bombers and others killing US troops, that he was screaming Allah Ackbar as he was murdering people...
...and now it's apparently been revealed that he went to the same mosque as some of the 9/11 hijackers where they all were treated to sermons on the virtues of terrorism against the US and our interests...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6521758/Fort-Hood-shooting-Texas-army-killer-linked-to-September-11-terrorists.html
...I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that jihad might have had something to do with it.
Well given that the media has managed to uncover that the guy has been bitching about US involvement in the middle east to anyone who would listen for years, that the feds had been investigating him for months because of online posts where he sang the praises of suicide bombers and others killing US troops, that he was screaming Allah Ackbar as he was murdering people...
...and now it's apparently been revealed that he went to the same mosque as some of the 9/11 hijackers where they all were treated to sermons on the virtues of terrorism against the US and our interests...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6521758/Fort-Hood-shooting-Texas-army-killer-linked-to-September-11-terrorists.html
...I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that jihad might have had something to do with it.
Yea, you'll notice I found an interesting link that states similar stuff too. I was just curious.
Belmont31R
11-07-09, 18:32
Well given that the media has managed to uncover that the guy has been bitching about US involvement in the middle east to anyone who would listen for years, that the feds had been investigating him for months because of online posts where he sang the praises of suicide bombers and others killing US troops, that he was screaming Allah Ackbar as he was murdering people...
...and now it's apparently been revealed that he went to the same mosque as some of the 9/11 hijackers where they all were treated to sermons on the virtues of terrorism against the US and our interests...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6521758/Fort-Hood-shooting-Texas-army-killer-linked-to-September-11-terrorists.html
...I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that jihad might have had something to do with it.
The media is already explaining it away as 2nd hand PTSD.....:mad:
The media is already explaining it away as 2nd hand PTSD.....:mad:
Maybe "pretraumatic stress disorder" since he had not even seen any action yet?
Heavy Metal
11-07-09, 18:59
None. To the best of my knowledge, every LEO that has been murdered has been murdered by a bad guy (or gal).
Please.......
You know what I mean. We aren't debating amongst anti-gunners who should get hung up on words.
Shadow1198
11-07-09, 19:58
It's pretty ridiculous they are making a deal about a 5.7mm pea shooter as opposed to the fact that there are things like um........machineguns, tanks, and explosive ordnance at Ft. Hood and things could have turned out much worse. The anti-gun media are F'in vultures.
patriot_man
11-07-09, 20:33
Did he manage to get his hands on the AP version (LE/MIL restricted) or the standard Ball rounds?
Blame the Army! He should have been discharged long ago.
Medical officers don't get chaptered out of the Army easily. The Army is always short healthcare providers and is no hurry to dismiss soldier holding critical specialties. Mental health providers are in great need and the Army isn't letting them out just because they want to go. The MAJ owed the Army some serious time for the training he received. He completed a residency program and a fellowship. Army doctors get this training with the understanding that they will complete an extended period of time in uniform. I figure he owed the Army somewhere between six to eight years.
It's pretty ridiculous they are making a deal about a 5.7mm pea shooter as opposed to the fact that there are things like um........machineguns, tanks, and explosive ordnance at Ft. Hood and things could have turned out much worse. The anti-gun media are F'in vultures.
I was thinking the same thing. If he'd gone in with a M4 (or personally owned semiauto clone) it probable would have done more damage, yet gotten less inflammatory press.:rolleyes:
Derf on MSNBC last night was saying something didn't add up that only one man with maybe two handguns could inflict that many injuries in that little amount of time.
I couldn't listen to his shit long enough to find out for sure what his point was but sounded like he suspected-
1. more guns were used
2. more gunmen
3. cops shot a lot of people too
Rachel Madcow was eating it up.
The same way the guy at Virginia Tech killed somebody with "only" two handguns. Nobody fought back immediately and aggressively.
When the VA Tech shooting happened, I was convinced initially that it was somebody with significant training and a magazine-fed semiauto rifle. Something substantial with high wounding ability.
The lesson in all of these situations is that cowering or hoping he doesn't shoot YOU is not a viable strategy. If you have a clear avenue of escape, by all means use it. Otherwise find a way to the scumbag, preferrably from behind or the flank, and beat him as viciously and quickly as you can.
Maybe "pretraumatic stress disorder" since he had not even seen any action yet?
You all may laugh at the idea of second hand PTSD but I can see it happening. I had a buddy I use to serve with that was a 68X (Mental Health Specialist). I ran into him at Camp Buehring on the way to Iraq. He told me that he was heading to Mosul and that he was the First Sergeant for the Combat Stress Control team. I was going to the same FOB so I told him that I would see him in Mosul. I visited him a few times but OPTEMPO kept me away for a couple of months. I went to see him and I was told that he had been sent home because of stress. I found this interesting since Combat Stress Control isn't allowed to leave the FOB. A few months later I ran into his commander at the mess hall and she (a Psychiatrist) was stressed out from all the BS she was getting from her higher ups. You have to understand that the mental health folks are stuck listening to everyone else's trouble but who takes care of the mental health folks? of
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-08-09, 12:31
The same way the guy at Virginia Tech killed somebody with "only" two handguns. Nobody fought back immediately and aggressively.
When the VA Tech shooting happened, I was convinced initially that it was somebody with significant training and a magazine-fed semiauto rifle. Something substantial with high wounding ability.
The lesson in all of these situations is that cowering or hoping he doesn't shoot YOU is not a viable strategy. If you have a clear avenue of escape, by all means use it. Otherwise find a way to the scumbag, preferrably from behind or the flank, and beat him as viciously and quickly as you can.
So, in a room full or trained and experienced combat professionals, they did no better when faced by an AS than college students?? I often see a lot of discussion about how active or inactive people are to a shooter and if only one 'sheepdog' were there how differently things could have gone down. Maybe stories will come out about how people rushed him, and maybe that is why there were so many wounded and killed. If a room full of the US Army can't stop one AS, the lesson I learn from that is that if you go to a gun fight with your dick in your hand it doesn't matter how trained, charlie mike, king king or super man you are, we each individually have to be armed as often as we can if you want to have any chance of affecting the outcome.
Went to a families dinner last night with a 'gun buddy' who got his CCW after I did. Since they go there a lot, I txtd him asking what the policy on CCW was for the restuarant. He wasn't sure, he's never carried there. :(
I'm starting to care less and less about people's property rights and more about 'keep my ass out the ground' rights.
Someone mentioned that officers and senior NCOs used to be armed at all times. I assume that was since they used sabers as a sidearm, but when did that go away?
I've seen dealers trying to sell these pistols for years now because it was supposed to be outlawed any day now.
Medical officers don't get chaptered out of the Army easily. The Army is always short healthcare providers and is no hurry to dismiss soldier holding critical specialties. Mental health providers are in great need and the Army isn't letting them out just because they want to go. The MAJ owed the Army some serious time for the training he received. He completed a residency program and a fellowship. Army doctors get this training with the understanding that they will complete an extended period of time in uniform. I figure he owed the Army somewhere between six to eight years.
And you think that was a good reason to keep such a scumbag?? Get a grip! Don't let your profession influence good sense.
I think some of you are missing the point. Regardless of caliber its a handgun round that defeats body armor! From a cops point of view that is scary! Yes an M4, AK, blah, blah, blah but this is a concealable weapon that shoots rifle type rounds that defeat body armor. In the world of law enforcement we don't like that. The gun is sold everywhere and the more people have it the sooner your going to hear a horror story of cops getting killed by it. Any comments?
patriot_man
11-08-09, 17:35
I think some of you are missing the point. Regardless of caliber its a handgun round that defeats body armor! From a cops point of view that is scary! Yes an M4, AK, blah, blah, blah but this is a concealable weapon that shoots rifle type rounds that defeat body armor. In the world of law enforcement we don't like that. The gun is sold everywhere and the more people have it the sooner your going to hear a horror story of cops getting killed by it. Any comments?
Not all of the 5.7 rounds can defeat body armor. SB193, L191, SS198LF, and SS190 are the only rounds that can penetrate armor and these are restricted LE/ MIL. Many people think that the sporting round or that the lead free version sold to CIV can penetrate armor but they are just hollowpoints or ball.
I think some of you are missing the point. Regardless of caliber its a handgun round that defeats body armor! From a cops point of view that is scary! Yes an M4, AK, blah, blah, blah but this is a concealable weapon that shoots rifle type rounds that defeat body armor. In the world of law enforcement we don't like that. The gun is sold everywhere and the more people have it the sooner your going to hear a horror story of cops getting killed by it. Any comments?
Yes, I have several comments:
1. You're wrong about its capabilities. As the poster above has already outlined, the ammo that is capable of penetrating soft armor is not sold to the public. There was a brief period of time, when the gun and its ammo first came out, when the regular factory load that was being sold could do so. Those days are long gone and that ammo is very rare.
2. Anybody can buy or make a pistol in a centerfire rifle caliber, including ones much scarier than 5.7.
3. How many cops have actually been killed or wounded by this pistol after in penetrated soft ammo? It seems a lot like the .50 BMG hype. A lot of theoretical horror stories but no real ones to date.
I think some of you are missing the point. Regardless of caliber its a handgun round that defeats body armor! From a cops point of view that is scary! Yes an M4, AK, blah, blah, blah but this is a concealable weapon that shoots rifle type rounds that defeat body armor. In the world of law enforcement we don't like that. The gun is sold everywhere and the more people have it the sooner your going to hear a horror story of cops getting killed by it. Any comments?
Comments? Yeah, sounds like something I'd read from the Brady Bunch.
That said, ok, let's have a theoretical discussion. Let's pretend that this eeeeevil 5.7mm pistol is actually capable of penetrating body armor without whiz-bang ammo...so now what? What do you propose? Ban it because it can "kill cops"?
Ok thanks for the information on the its capabilities and yes that does make me feel better, sorry if I offended anyone. As for Palmguy I didn't refer to it as a eeeeevil 5.7mm pistol. I just expressed my concerns as a LEO. As far as a ban on hand gun rounds that defeat body armor and kill cops I don't think I will touch that one, I couldn't give you a non bias opinion.
QuietShootr
11-08-09, 18:06
I think some of you are missing the point. Regardless of caliber its a handgun round that defeats body armor! From a cops point of view that is scary! Yes an M4, AK, blah, blah, blah but this is a concealable weapon that shoots rifle type rounds that defeat body armor. In the world of law enforcement we don't like that. The gun is sold everywhere and the more people have it the sooner your going to hear a horror story of cops getting killed by it. Any comments?
Yeah, I have a comment.
<---------DU is that way.
QuietShootr
11-08-09, 18:07
Ok thanks for the information on the its capabilities and yes that does make me feel better, sorry if I offended anyone. As for Palmguy I didn't refer to it as a eeeeevil 5.7mm pistol. I just expressed my concerns as a LEO. As far as a ban on hand gun rounds that defeat body armor and kill cops I don't think I will touch that one, I couldn't give you a non bias opinion.
If you can't give a non-biased opinion, you're a closet gun grabber, whether you think so or not.
Thats the furthest from the truth, you put your ass on the street, maybe a big city high crime and get back to me... I am done with this....be safe all and stay well.
QuietShootr
11-08-09, 18:18
Thats the furthest from the truth, you put your ass on the street, maybe a big city high crime and get back to me... I am done with this....be safe all and stay well.
Ha.
I think you need www.officer.com or http://forums.realpolice.net/ if you were looking for a blindly pro-police circle jerk.
Heavy Metal
11-08-09, 18:34
I think some of you are missing the point. Regardless of caliber its a handgun round that defeats body armor! From a cops point of view that is scary! Yes an M4, AK, blah, blah, blah but this is a concealable weapon that shoots rifle type rounds that defeat body armor. In the world of law enforcement we don't like that. The gun is sold everywhere and the more people have it the sooner your going to hear a horror story of cops getting killed by it. Any comments?
AP ammo in my 9mm Glock 19 will easily defeat your soft body armor too. AP ammo in any common centerfire pislto caliber will defeat just about all common soft body armor.
It ain't the pistol, its the ammo and the ammo is restricted already in all calibers.
Ok thanks for the information on the its capabilities and yes that does make me feel better, sorry if I offended anyone. As for Palmguy I didn't refer to it as a eeeeevil 5.7mm pistol. I just expressed my concerns as a LEO. As far as a ban on hand gun rounds that defeat body armor and kill cops I don't think I will touch that one, I couldn't give you a non bias opinion.
Never said you used those exact words.
It's a slippery slope to head down the road of "well this puts cops in more than a certain level of danger". Plenty of cops have been killed by more conventional pistol rounds and rifle rounds...hell not that long ago there was a high profile cop shooting in Pennsylvania where multiple officers were killed by a gunman using some sort of semi-auto detachable mag centerfire rifle (AR15 or AK, can't remember).
A discussion very similar to this was used to justify the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act (subtitle of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994) aka Assault Weapons Ban. Does it suck that cops get shot? Yeah, it does. But there is a hell of a lot of liberty that can be taken away in the name of making cops safer, and probably without a whole lot of effect to that end.
patriot_man
11-08-09, 18:48
Never said you used those exact words.
It's a slippery slope to head down the road of "well this puts cops in more than a certain level of danger". Plenty of cops have been killed by more conventional pistol rounds and rifle rounds...hell not that long ago there was a high profile cop shooting in Pennsylvania where multiple officers were killed by a gunman using some sort of semi-auto detachable mag centerfire rifle (AR15 or AK, can't remember).
A discussion very similar to this was used to justify the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act (subtitle of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994) aka Assault Weapons Ban. Does it suck that cops get shot? Yeah, it does. But there is a hell of a lot of liberty that can be taken away in the name of making cops safer, and probably without a whole lot of effect to that end.
true +1
Heavy Metal
11-08-09, 19:08
Never said you used those exact words.
It's a slippery slope to head down the road of "well this puts cops in more than a certain level of danger". Plenty of cops have been killed by more conventional pistol rounds and rifle rounds...hell not that long ago there was a high profile cop shooting in Pennsylvania where multiple officers were killed by a gunman using some sort of semi-auto detachable mag centerfire rifle (AR15 or AK, can't remember).
A discussion very similar to this was used to justify the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act (subtitle of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994) aka Assault Weapons Ban. Does it suck that cops get shot? Yeah, it does. But there is a hell of a lot of liberty that can be taken away in the name of making cops safer, and probably without a whole lot of effect to that end.
What was it Harry Truman said?:
"If you can't stand the heat, stay the Hell out of the Kitchen!"
Rollin Thunder
11-08-09, 19:21
The firearm isn't a cop killer, it's a tool. Now, the whack job, he's a soldier killer, a domestic terrorist, maybe one could even say he's quilty of treason and should meet up with the firing squad at sunrise. The firearm had very little to do with it.
what great timing! now the ''hearth care '' mess is over and this fall out will start next the gun Control is opening up again ...what a blacken Christmas is coming!
I did read somewhere that he was saying "Allah Achbar" the whole time...
Yes, he was quoted as saying Allah Akbar the whole time, and had presented several anti American sentiments to colleagues in the past, who were afraid to file formal complaints due to fear of appearing prejudiced against Muslims. His profile is painting a picture that was not suprising.
Everything that comes out on this guy is a red flag.
Maybe you should have sent this name in for you idea to Wilson Combat;). Sure beats Spec ops 9
Ahahaha, well said bro
Maybe you should have sent this name in for you idea to Wilson Combat;). Sure beats Spec ops 9
That was the lamest contest win ever...
What's the over/under line on how long it takes some senator to write a bill banning the FiveSeven?
Has anyone heard what the officer who shot the guy was using? I wonder what caliber and ammo she was using?
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-09-09, 07:08
Has anyone heard what the officer who shot the guy was using? I wonder what caliber and ammo she was using?
Didn't kill him, must have been 9mm.
John_Wayne777
11-09-09, 08:14
In "Yet more evidence that this event had nothing to do with terrorism" news, apparently Hassan was trying to reach out to Al Quaeda:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fort-hood-shooter-contact-al-qaeda-terrorists-officials/story?id=9030873
I think some of you are missing the point. Regardless of caliber its a handgun round that defeats body armor! From a cops point of view that is scary! Yes an M4, AK, blah, blah, blah but this is a concealable weapon that shoots rifle type rounds that defeat body armor. In the world of law enforcement we don't like that. The gun is sold everywhere and the more people have it the sooner your going to hear a horror story of cops getting killed by it. Any comments?
Yeah I have a comment: You have no idea what you are talking about. You are a parrot. And if you are truly LEO, which I doubt, you probably spend more time chowing down at the local DD rather than learning the art of your profession. If you are LEO, which I doubt, you should reconsider your chose profession.
Has anyone heard what the officer who shot the guy was using? I wonder what caliber and ammo she was using?
I attended some training with Fort Hood Police about a year ago. If I remember right they carry Beretta 9mm.
The media is already explaining it away as 2nd hand PTSD.....:mad:
Or everything else under the sun EXCEPT for the shooter.
"Its the Army's fault..."
"Its the gun's fault..."
"Its the gun manufacturer's fault..."
"Its the victims' fault..."
"Its PTSD..."
woodandsteel
11-09-09, 11:14
Or everything else under the sun EXCEPT for the shooter.
"Its the Army's fault..."
"Its the gun's fault..."
"Its the gun manufacturer's fault..."
"Its the victims' fault..."
"Its PTSD..."
I'm surprised no one has come out and said "it's Bush's fault" yet.
I think some of you are missing the point. Regardless of caliber its a handgun round that defeats body armor! From a cops point of view that is scary! Yes an M4, AK, blah, blah, blah but this is a concealable weapon that shoots rifle type rounds that defeat body armor. In the world of law enforcement we don't like that. The gun is sold everywhere and the more people have it the sooner your going to hear a horror story of cops getting killed by it. Any comments?
Yeah. .22s are called "cop killers" too. Why? Because LEOs killed by .22s that were wearing body armor were getting shot in areas of the body not covered by the vest. Yet, when the all knowing media got wind of this, they said officers must have been shot by special "cop killer" bullets that penetrated the armor. Generally speaking, the media will say that any handgun bullet that kills a LEO who is wearing body armor "must have been a cop killer bullet."
How the "cop killer" bullet came about and all the media BS about "cop killer bullets". Interestingly enough, a cop helped design it.
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvcopk.html
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-09-09, 12:49
I'm surprised no one has come out and said "it's Bush's fault" yet.
That has been offered as a reason that Obama had such poor performance and empathy in his speeches about the shootings. Multiple tours and PTSD are Bush's fault, not his.
Ironically, it sounds like the shooter put the plans in motion after seeing that Obama wasn't actually going to get us out of Iraq right away.
woodandsteel
11-09-09, 13:43
That has been offered as a reason that Obama had such poor performance and empathy in his speeches about the shootings. Multiple tours and PTSD are Bush's fault, not his.
Ironically, it sounds like the shooter put the plans in motion after seeing that Obama wasn't actually going to get us out of Iraq right away.
Good point.
I should have thought it through, before I posted.
chavez_e_chavez
11-09-09, 14:01
every gun is a cop killer gun..i hate the media..:(:(:(
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-09-09, 15:03
Good point.
I should have thought it through, before I posted.
Didn't come up with it, I heard it offered as a reason in some of the coverage on the shootings and his speech.
I guess BHOs teleprompter has a handle on the outrage and indignation emoticons, it just needs to work on the symbols for compassion so BHO can deliver the speeches the way Alexrod wants him to.
Yeah I have a comment: You have no idea what you are talking about. You are a parrot. And if you are truly LEO, which I doubt, you probably spend more time chowing down at the local DD rather than learning the art of your profession. If you are LEO, which I doubt, you should reconsider your chose profession.
Wow, I can see your respect for the law. I expressed my concern and lack of understanding for th 5.7 which I have no use for. Some were respectful and nice enough to inform me (thank you) and some like you just want to stomp all over me. I thought the forums were about sharing useful information and learning from each other, In my profession we call that team work. To set the facts I have over 23 years in law enforcement. Started in the Sheriffs Dept with a S & W 357 Highway Patrolman (pinned and recessed I might add). Now in PD carry Sigs and Glocks (40 Cal Speer, Gold dot). I started in the streets and now after 5 promotions I am a commanding Officer. Don't eat shit food thanks, mountain Bike riding, working out and guns....Thanks for asking. Put my life on the line many times to help people...and yes thats what you get from some people like you...and by the way DD on my job stands for Detective Division.
John_Wayne777
11-09-09, 15:38
Let's knock off the bickering, please.
rifleman2000
11-09-09, 15:55
I think some of you are missing the point. Regardless of caliber its a handgun round that defeats body armor! From a cops point of view that is scary! Yes an M4, AK, blah, blah, blah but this is a concealable weapon that shoots rifle type rounds that defeat body armor. In the world of law enforcement we don't like that. The gun is sold everywhere and the more people have it the sooner your going to hear a horror story of cops getting killed by it. Any comments?
Now, aside from the fact that the armor piercing ammo is not readily available, and of course the fact that many weapons are capable of penetrating body armor... maybe you can settle for really crappy body armor that all guns can penetrate and then we can ban all guns as "cop killing" guns.
The 2nd Amendment is to preserve our freedoms. Guns that penetrate body armor are good. How is that for a comment?
I have a good idea for a law. If I can't carry it, a cop should not be allowed to either. How is that for a comment?
You want to protect yourself? So do I.
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