View Full Version : More jackassery from our PC anemic terrorist friendly Army CID.
rifleman2000
11-09-09, 15:58
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,573205,00.html
Military criminal investigators continue to refer to Hasan as the only suspect in the shootings but won't say when charges would be filed. "We have not established a motive for the shootings at this time,"said Army Criminal Investigative Command spokesman Chris Grey.
:confused:
Can you spell J I H A D ? Say it with me, "JIHAD". Good.
Know some good guys who have worked in CID. Calling Army CID terrorist friendly ranks pretty high in the "dumbest shit I've seen on the Internet" ladder.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,573205,00.html
Military criminal investigators continue to refer to Hasan as the only suspect in the shootings but won't say when charges would be filed. "We have not established a motive for the shootings at this time,"said Army Criminal Investigative Command spokesman Chris Grey.
:confused:
Can you spell J I H A D ? Say it with me, "JIHAD". Good.
rifleman2000
11-09-09, 19:00
Know some good guys who have worked in CID. Calling Army CID terrorist friendly ranks pretty high in the "dumbest shit I've seen on the Internet" ladder.
Not having a motive for a jihadist ranks higher. Next, please.
With an investigation ongoing, and the perpetrator alive and pending interrogation, you really think and investigative body is going to hold a press conference and give you any more detail than CID has so far? Hell, even your basic Law & Order episode understands what's happening here. And regardless of CID's reasons for remaining vague, it sure as **** doesn't excuse an interweb genius likening their organization as being terrorist friendly. That's just a ****ing stupid attention generating title for an otherwise short sighted and generally mind numbing post.
Courts generally like "evidence" in order to establish facts. Being able to prove motive and intent will make a difference in how they charge the subject. If CID files charges or shows their hand too early, the result could be the bad guy getting off lighter than he should.
Also, I find your thread title to be ****ing insulting. Anyone referring to federal agents, whether they be military or civilian, as "terrorist friendly" is an ass.
rifleman2000
11-09-09, 19:35
With an investigation ongoing, and the perpetrator alive and pending interrogation, you really think and investigative body is going to hold a press conference and give you any more detail than CID has so far? Hell, even your basic Law & Order episode understands what's happening here. And regardless of CID's reasons for remaining vague, it sure as **** doesn't excuse an interweb genius likening their organization as being terrorist friendly. That's just a ****ing stupid attention generating title for an otherwise short sighted and generally mind numbing post.
Relax and disagree nicely. The Army priorities are PC. My title was hyperbole but not much of a stretch. What is the priority for the Army and our nation in general? Be PC and don't call a spade a spade. Why can't anyone come out and call it what it is? Why does the CID spokeman not comment on jihads? It is not because they are at a loss for what was going on. The guy was on a jihad.
He shot those Soldiers for the same reason two airplanes crashed into the World Trade Center. And we as Americans won't admit it. So in a way, we are aiding and abetting the terrorists by not setting up an environment where people feel free to identify someone who is clearly a terrorist.
So thank you and please don't swear it hurts my feelings.
rifleman2000
11-09-09, 19:38
I can recall a time when I brought in six enemy combatants that were captured after shooting at one of my squads before they scooted down the road. I brought them in and the MI interrogator spoke to them at some length before he told me he would let them go.
They told him that they did not do it.
I'm not sorry for the way I feel.
QuietShootr
11-09-09, 20:02
With an investigation ongoing, and the perpetrator alive and pending interrogation, you really think and investigative body is going to hold a press conference and give you any more detail than CID has so far? Hell, even your basic Law & Order episode understands what's happening here. And regardless of CID's reasons for remaining vague, it sure as **** doesn't excuse an interweb genius likening their organization as being terrorist friendly. That's just a ****ing stupid attention generating title for an otherwise short sighted and generally mind numbing post.
If I recall correctly, the OP is missing a leg because of these towelheaded ****wads, so you might check your fire for a minute.
Be PC and don't call a spade a spade. Why can't anyone come out and call it what it is?
I am with you. It never, ever should have been able to happen.
People have every right to be extremely angry.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,573205,00.html
Military criminal investigators continue to refer to Hasan as the only suspect in the shootings but won't say when charges would be filed. "We have not established a motive for the shootings at this time,"said Army Criminal Investigative Command spokesman Chris Grey. :confused: Can you spell J I H A D ? Say it with me, "JIHAD". Good.
While it may seem simple to those on the outside looking in, I suspect that CID knows a thing or two about the case we do not.
Further, each step in the case should be made with care and deliberation. Especially this high profile case, which the world is watching.
My worry is that this is so embarrassing for the Army that they would rather say he was a hidden time bomb psycho and not admit that they dropped the ball not cutting a jihadist from the herd a long time ago. I think it will take an independent investigation outside CID to find the truth. If he is proven to have a documentable history of anti-US/pro-Haji activities then a long line of Army heads are going to roll. IMHO:mad:
Relax and disagree nicely. The Army priorities are PC. My title was hyperbole but not much of a stretch. What is the priority for the Army and our nation in general? Be PC and don't call a spade a spade. Why can't anyone come out and call it what it is? Why does the CID spokeman not comment on jihads? It is not because they are at a loss for what was going on. The guy was on a jihad.
He shot those Soldiers for the same reason two airplanes crashed into the World Trade Center. And we as Americans won't admit it. So in a way, we are aiding and abetting the terrorists by not setting up an environment where people feel free to identify someone who is clearly a terrorist.
So thank you and please don't swear it hurts my feelings.
More people need to call a spade a spade. I wont argue that MANY federal organizations and the CID are sympathetic with terrorists, and in my opinion because too many libtards are in them, but I dont know for sure if thats why they didnt say this trash was jihad. I think its very possible they are trying to avoid softening this terrorists sentence, Ive seen many cases with murders and such backfire because someone came out and told it like it was. Its not the same world as 60yrs ago, anymore unfortunately a lot of people wont tell it like it is for fear of getting a criminal let out/not a harsh enough sentence.
Now with all that said, they should have adressed this killer as nothing more than trash, jihadi trash at that. A coward who attacks people who have no guns to shoot back. Talking straight isnt always easy but you can judge character pretty by it. And in this case it was in poor character in my opinion and if you dont like my opinion too bad, throw yours out too
All I can say is that if anyone had any balls, that F-tard a$$clown perp would be getting a big dose of pig blood in his IV right about now - with his full knowledge, BTW...
After justice is meted out, his corpse should be publicly covered in pig entrails prior to internment.
And we let haji know that any other of his murdering buddies will receive the same treatment. No trip to allah, no 72 virgins for their dumb asses.
It'll never happen tho' because doing this might offend someone's delicate sensibilities.
dmanflynn and M4Fundi are getting closer to it.
The Army and upper brass at Ft. Hood are in full-blown cover your ass mode right now. Noone there is anxious to call this jihad or terrorism because the next logical question is "why didn't anyone see this coming, and put a stop to it?". The fact that this guy was a field grade officer puts the fire that much closer to their asses. It is alot easier (and less career ruining) to say "Well, the guy just snapped due to second hand PTSD. What a tragedy", and then continue on.
Belmont31R
11-10-09, 00:41
They may have been watching them to see who he was communicating with, and play the game of connect the dots. If they just snatched him up it would shut off developing other potential leads. However when you run this gamble something like this can happen.
I have a hard time believing everyone who knew about this guy would be so incompetent as to just brush it off.
However if they were watching this guy fairly closely, and this happened under their watch you are going to see lots of denial and CYA type of stuff. No one ones to get pinned with doing nothing when they knew how jihad-ish he is.
If they were watching him for the connect the dots and managed to miss that he bought 2 guns and cleaned out his apartment and gave away his belongings:confused: then someone is not watching him very well.
Heck, I'm one of the official good guys and yet I'm on the TSA rubber glove list :eek:because most of my jobs are overseas on one-way tickets without a return ticket.:(
And they didn't notice him buying guns 2 days before an unwilling deployment? It sounds like a good excuse for me to buy some more guns before I leave the US... maybe they will stop giving me the "Full Monty" search:p (I'm exaggerating on TSA, but not by much)
John_Wayne777
11-10-09, 07:52
More people need to call a spade a spade. I wont argue that MANY federal organizations and the CID are sympathetic with terrorists, and in my opinion because too many libtards are in them, but I dont know for sure if thats why they didnt say this trash was jihad.
How police conduct themselves in the aftermath of a crime is highly regulated and subject to judicial review. The general idea is to play stuff close to the vest to avoid some sort of sanctionable error in the interest of protecting the rights of the suspect (because until he's convicted in court he is presumed innocent) and thereby causing loopholes he can use to improve his situation.
Are there some people in the federal government and possibly the military who really don't want to see this as having anything to do with terrorism? Of course. Is that the explanation behind everything? No. In a case like this the investigators are going to dot all of their i's and cross all the t's because they know the case is going to get an immense amount of scrutiny in the public and in the courts.
They're going to handle business. Just be patient.
I think it's a bit too early to allege coverup. With people like Lieberman looking into it I doubt anyone who wants to cover it up will be able to.
rifleman2000
11-10-09, 09:08
To clarify after reflection. My title is a bit over the top but I believe it cuts to the root. Too many people are afraid of the truth in this incident. I does not do us justice, and it does not do our murdered Soldiers justice.
There is also an element of hypocrisy. Probably all on this website are to some degree characterized as potential domestic right wing terrorists. Yet there is a collective willingness to explain away an overt jihadist attack as anything other than terrorism.
Do I believe that the CID supports terrorism directly and willingly? No. But are they part of a system and culture that harbors political correctness and makes it easier for terrorists? Yes.
Thanks for the support, QuietShootr, I was not ever combat wounded and have all of my limbs.
I have led American troops in combat and the level of betrayal to our Soldiers by this action and refusal to acknowledge it what for what it is does outrage me.
It breaks my heart that young Soldiers have been let down by their leadership so badly; so badly a jihadist among them was not discovered, so badly that an officer who is supposed to have the highest level of integrity and responsibility was the source of their deaths, and so badly that nobody can step up and call it what is is.
LegalAlien
11-10-09, 10:52
HUH . . . Motive?
He is an Army Officer, who slaughtered unarmed soldiers on a Military Base on US soil. He was praising Allah as he was going on his rampage. His motive means shit . . . what he did is what counts!!!
He should be court-martialed by a military tribunal and executed by a firing squad consisting of 13 female soldiers. As a blindfold, they should pull a freshly slaughtered pig stomach over his head. His hands should be tied behind his back with pig entrails.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,573205,00.html
Military criminal investigators continue to refer to Hasan as the only suspect in the shootings but won't say when charges would be filed. "We have not established a motive for the shootings at this time,"said Army Criminal Investigative Command spokesman Chris Grey.
:confused:
Can you spell J I H A D ? Say it with me, "JIHAD". Good.
Rifleman do you really think CID is terrorist friendly? You obviously haven't had to deal with them or the Uniformed Code of Military Justice. They are trying to get this investigation right so the can file a Capital case. That means the death penalty if you didn't know. The military has the death penalty but we don't execute or haven't in nearly fifty years. The last two Soldiers to get the death penalty committed similar crimes (William Kreutzer and Asan Akbar). This isn't the first time a Soldier has fired up a formation and it isn't the first time the act was committed by a Muslim (take that for what it is worth). I am including a link that will provide some additional info on the Death Penalty for service members. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/us-military-death-penalty
How police conduct themselves in the aftermath of a crime is highly regulated and subject to judicial review. The general idea is to play stuff close to the vest to avoid some sort of sanctionable error in the interest of protecting the rights of the suspect (because until he's convicted in court he is presumed innocent) and thereby causing loopholes he can use to improve his situation.
Are there some people in the federal government and possibly the military who really don't want to see this as having anything to do with terrorism? Of course. Is that the explanation behind everything? No. In a case like this the investigators are going to dot all of their i's and cross all the t's because they know the case is going to get an immense amount of scrutiny in the public and in the courts.
They're going to handle business. Just be patient.
I think it's a bit too early to allege coverup. With people like Lieberman looking into it I doubt anyone who wants to cover it up will be able to.
I agree JW. CID and the FEDs will get this case right and exact. There shouldn't be any problems with the police work and the Courts Martial should run smoothly. He'll probably get the death penalty and spend the rest of his life outside of Kansas City in Leavenworth. My wife wishes he could be tried in a TX court. I told her how no one in the military has been executed since 1961. She figures if the state of Texas tried him then he would be executed outside of eight years.
LegalAlien
11-10-09, 11:16
She figures if the state of Texas tried him then he would be executed outside of eight years.
Give him a free pass to the "Express Lane" - courtesy of Ron WHite
rifleman2000
11-10-09, 11:22
How police conduct themselves in the aftermath of a crime is highly regulated and subject to judicial review. The general idea is to play stuff close to the vest to avoid some sort of sanctionable error in the interest of protecting the rights of the suspect (because until he's convicted in court he is presumed innocent) and thereby causing loopholes he can use to improve his situation.
Are there some people in the federal government and possibly the military who really don't want to see this as having anything to do with terrorism? Of course. Is that the explanation behind everything? No. In a case like this the investigators are going to dot all of their i's and cross all the t's because they know the case is going to get an immense amount of scrutiny in the public and in the courts.
They're going to handle business. Just be patient.
I think it's a bit too early to allege coverup. With people like Lieberman looking into it I doubt anyone who wants to cover it up will be able to.
I agree with your assessment but I still think that the "process" in this case is breathing room to deflect blame and downplay what happened. Nobody waited very long to call the WTC attacks terrorism.
Our nation has been attacked by a terrorist. Nobody wants to admit it.
John_Wayne777
11-10-09, 11:25
To clarify after reflection. My title is a bit over the top but I believe it cuts to the root. Too many people are afraid of the truth in this incident. I does not do us justice, and it does not do our murdered Soldiers justice.
There's no doubt that there are people within the administration and the military COC that are trying desperately to see this as anything other than what it is...but I don't think that extends to the calculation of pursuing the criminal case against this yutz. I would imagine that the CID folks want to put together an airtight case against this dirtbag and put him away for good.
The lessons the Army learns from this incident will be a different story.
I have led American troops in combat and the level of betrayal to our Soldiers by this action and refusal to acknowledge it what for what it is does outrage me.
It's perfectly understandable to be ticked off especially since PC concerns seem to have created the environment that allowed this yahoo to continue in the Army well past the point where he should have been in a cell. Still, that's not really a factor in the criminal investigation.
Outlander Systems
11-11-09, 08:01
More jackassery from the PC media:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704402404574525831785724114.html?mod=rss_Today's_Most_Popular
rifleman2000
11-11-09, 08:40
More jackassery from the PC media:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704402404574525831785724114.html?mod=rss_Today's_Most_Popular
That is just pathetic. Dr. Phil thinks Hassan was a victim.
Outlander Systems
11-11-09, 08:51
Dr. Phil just further proves what a sham he is. Jerry Springer with a moustache.
rifleman2000
11-11-09, 10:39
Rifleman do you really think CID is terrorist friendly? You obviously haven't had to deal with them or the Uniformed Code of Military Justice. They are trying to get this investigation right so the can file a Capital case. That means the death penalty if you didn't know. The military has the death penalty but we don't execute or haven't in nearly fifty years. The last two Soldiers to get the death penalty committed similar crimes (William Kreutzer and Asan Akbar). This isn't the first time a Soldier has fired up a formation and it isn't the first time the act was committed by a Muslim (take that for what it is worth). I am including a link that will provide some additional info on the Death Penalty for service members. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/us-military-death-penalty
No I don't but here is a question. Why wasn't CID all over him from the get go? PC-ness has paralyzed our Army.
Belmont31R
11-11-09, 11:39
I don't think the left wants to admit there was a terror attack on our soil under Obama's watch.
Instead blame the wars, Bush, the military, et cetera. Its all they have been doing since 2002/2003 anyways. Why stop now? They have gotten quiet since their messiah won the election. Can't blame Bush anymore...until now.
Frankly I wish all these TV personalities and actors would just STFU. I don't understand why they think just because they have a TV show makes their opinion anymore important than anyone elses out there.
photosniper
11-11-09, 12:41
The real reason behind the Army and the Obama Administration's skirting the truth about Hasan being a terrorist is the fact that Hasan was on the Administration's Department of Homeland Security transition team. Hasan has been directly linked to BO so the .GOV is going to cover up the terrorist connection.
The real reason behind the Army and the Obama Administration's skirting the truth about Hasan being a terrorist is the fact that Hasan was on the Administration's Department of Homeland Security transition team. Hasan has been directly linked to BO so the .GOV is going to cover up the terrorist connection.
Really? Please provide additional information along with links to further my education. Thanks.
John_Wayne777
11-11-09, 13:17
I believe that allegation comes from a WND article...which I believe has been proven wrong.
I believe that allegation comes from a WND article...which I believe has been proven wrong.
Gotcha... I've been keeping my head in the sand building a home theater :) Sometimes I just have to let the news pass me by to keep my blood pressure under control.
photosniper
11-11-09, 18:08
I believe that allegation comes from a WND article...which I believe has been proven wrong.
Could very well be, the info was linked to a PDF file of a report from the George Washington University Homeland Security Policy Institute.
Here is the link to the story:
Link (http://www.rightpundits.com/?p=4961)
I'm looking at the report right now and on page 32 is the name Nidal Hasan, Uniformed Services University School of Medicine. The name is included in a list of "Task Force Participants"
This forum is chasing down the TOS and GT road at full speed.
rifleman2000
11-12-09, 09:08
This forum is chasing down the TOS and GT road at full speed.
Why? Too many ideas and discussions generated?
Seems some here want to go the path of DU. If everyone is not in lock-step, lock the thread or ban!
I hope the higher-ups in the Army take note.
From the information I've got so far, this would have been easy to avoid.
I can only hope that it opens the Army's eyes. If they are playing cover up, then there's nothing we can do. But they'll know they made a huge error, to say the least. As long as they learn from this mistake, and never let it happen again, these soldiers deaths may not have been in vein.
The country has a duty to respect those American lives that were lost. And pay Justice where justice is due.
It's an absolute shame that a terrorist see's more sympathy than the death of a Soldier.
Just a recent radical spike in the "jackasssery" of folks arguing vociferously when they are equipped with little else than opinion and speculation vs the SME standards that are what drew me here to begin with.
rifleman2000
11-12-09, 09:51
Just a recent radical spike in the "jackasssery" of folks arguing vociferously when they are equipped with little else than opinion and speculation vs the SME standards that are what drew me here to begin with.
I don't see how it applies here. Maybe you were commenting on another thread.
Just a recent radical spike in the "jackasssery" of folks arguing vociferously when they are equipped with little else than opinion and speculation vs the SME standards that are what drew me here to begin with.
Seems pretty calm to me. :)
Just a recent radical spike in the "jackasssery" of folks arguing vociferously when they are equipped with little else than opinion and speculation vs the SME standards that are what drew me here to begin with.
I have seen this phenomenon in some other recent threads, but not here. Your statement is simply hyper-critical.
Also, if you are not prepared to form a conclusion based upon what we all know now, then perhaps you have joined the ranks of the folks who think like yourself but are in power and who sat on their hands until many died needlessly. I think the majority of us here have seen and heard more than enough to justify our statements.
Even by the end of the first day it was obvious who he was and what he did.
Dave Berryhill
11-12-09, 10:59
Perhaps some of you military guys can answer some questions. I was a civilian cop but don't know much about military law.
Was Hasan's contacting an Al Qaeda leader (without prior approval) a criminal act in itself? After seeing Chris Matthews' comment about how Hasan was exercising his right to free speech, I was just shaking my head.
What about the comments that Hasan made in front of other officers about muslims being loyal to allah first?
Wasn't his conduct prior to the shooting enough for some type of disciplinary action, especially as an officer? I know that it wouldn't have been politically correct to do so but I'm talking from a purely legal perspective.
I think trying him here in Texas is a pretty good idea.....We'll give him a fair trial and a first-class hangin'!
Last night I caught the end of O'Reilly were he reads viewer e-mails. A lady wrote in reference to Alan Colmes appearantly saying that the shooting should be treated like a crime, not a terrorist act. The lady wrote that O'Reilly should have asked Colmes if Hasan was a suicide bomber instead of a shooter, would he then consider it a terrorist act? Thats the question that should be put to all the asshats in the media and in D.C. who are defending the scumbag.
And I really wish they would stop referring to that **** as a "major". He doesn't deserve that title anymore. :mad:
No I don't but here is a question. Why wasn't CID all over him from the get go? PC-ness has paralyzed our Army.
PCness hasn't paralyzed the Army as a whole. This guy is assigned to the Army Medical Command. MEDCOM is a little different from the rest of the Army. MEDCOM is deep into the PC culture due to our mission of patient care in fixed facilities. He was also a medical provider. Doctors are a commodity and are usually treated with kid gloves. I also wonder why CID wasn't all over him. My wife was talking to friends and the subject was adult lifestyles. It didn't take long before I was having a sit down with CID about the conversation. So here is a guy throwing serious red flags up to behavioral medicine professionals and no one did anything. Hell he gave away all of his possessions. That act alone should have gotten him some quality as an inpatient for possible suicide.
You would think that the Army would have gotten rid of him because of the behavior trends. He also had a chance to get out of the Army. Hasan received a bad eval yet he was promoted to MAJ. He was also allowed to finish residency and was excepted for a fellowship. He could have turned down a spot in either training program and relieved himself of the long term commitment to the Army. Instead he accepted the training and the commitment. He wasn't made to accept the commitment, he volunteered for it. He was a fool to think that you can just pay the Army off and leave.
Just a recent radical spike in the "jackasssery" of folks arguing vociferously when they are equipped with little else than opinion and speculation vs the SME standards that are what drew me here to begin with.
Please understand that you are reading and posting in a general discussion forum. There is some latitude given, though in reading this thread from start to finish it might not be much more.
I believe we still hold an extremely high signal to noise ratio, despite the argued existence of general discussion.
Let me answer it like this. Had I done something so stupid as to contact the head of the KKK or send an email to Heinrich Himmler I would have been out of the military so fast that I wouldn't know what time it was.
Perhaps some of you military guys can answer some questions. I was a civilian cop but don't know much about military law.
Was Hasan's contacting an Al Qaeda leader (without prior approval) a criminal act in itself? After seeing Chris Matthews' comment about how Hasan was exercising his right to free speech, I was just shaking my head.
What about the comments that Hasan made in front of other officers about muslims being loyal to allah first?
Wasn't his conduct prior to the shooting enough for some type of disciplinary action, especially as an officer? I know that it wouldn't have been politically correct to do so but I'm talking from a purely legal perspective.
I think trying him here in Texas is a pretty good idea.....We'll give him a fair trial and a first-class hangin'!
Belmont31R
11-13-09, 01:16
Let me answer it like this. Had I done something so stupid as to contact the head of the KKK or send an email to Heinrich Himmler I would have been out of the military so fast that I wouldn't know what time it was.
Yep...
And also you can be UCMJ'd for just about anything with "catch all" articles like unbecoming an officer if he was so found guilty in court.
There doesn't exactly have to be a law against XYZ act. But if your command wishes to charge you, and your jury of peers says you are guilty, then the act was against the UCMJ.
Dave Berryhill
11-13-09, 09:28
...Doctors are a commodity and are usually treated with kid gloves. ....
I understand that Doctors are given a lot of latitude but I have a really hard time with the fact that someone knew that Hasan attempted to contact Al Qaeda 20 times and decided that it was "benign."
It will be interesting to see how this plays out, should we ever get the full story. I'm sure that there are a lot of people in full CYA mode right now.
Smuckatelli
11-13-09, 11:48
Let me answer it like this. Had I done something so stupid as to contact the head of the KKK or send an email to Heinrich Himmler I would have been out of the military so fast that I wouldn't know what time it was.
It took us less than 90 days to get rid of a skinhead that was in our sniper platoon. Our next trip up to Walter Reed is going to be interesting.
CarlosDJackal
11-13-09, 12:17
Not having a motive for a jihadist ranks higher. Next, please.
More internet bullshit!! :rolleyes:
I worked with and supported the CID and some of its Task Force in some of my previous jobs for years and they are definitely not "pro-terrorist". Unfortunately, a lot of the jobs they did are not made public and it's easy for the ignorant to tag them as such.
Just like the rest of the military, they are limited on what they can say to the press by the ROE that are forced onto them from above. JM2CW.
CarlosDJackal
11-13-09, 12:31
I agree with your assessment but I still think that the "process" in this case is breathing room to deflect blame and downplay what happened. Nobody waited very long to call the WTC attacks terrorism.
Our nation has been attacked by a terrorist. Nobody wants to admit it.
If you would get your head out of your fourth-point-of-contact then maybe you would understand that if the CID were to declare this POS, murdering moslem what he is that it can and will seriously affect the resulting court case.
As I have said before, I worked with these guys closely and I saw how they had to conduct themselves when building a criminal case otherwise they would see all their hard work negated in the courtroom.
I don't know about you, but I would rather hear what people think is "PC talk" now than see him walk or even live later. JM2CW.
As I have said before, I worked with these guys closely and I saw how they had to conduct themselves when building a criminal case otherwise they would see all their hard work negated in the courtroom.
How is this scenario any different from any other legal prosecution? Sure, one has to be smart as to how they proceed with evidence, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that ample evidence of his hatred was overlooked for what are extremely difficult to understand reasons. This while he trained excessively with firearms recently.
Now, if you want to be adamant that we wait to see what we may not be understanding at this juncture, that's fine. But I can tell you that based upon all evidence exposed so far, it looks very, very bad for the brass involved.
The OP is just deeply frustrated, and for good reason. I find no real malice in his assessment.
rifleman2000
11-13-09, 14:38
If you would get your head out of your fourth-point-of-contact then maybe you would understand that if the CID were to declare this POS, murdering moslem what he is that it can and will seriously affect the resulting court case.
As I have said before, I worked with these guys closely and I saw how they had to conduct themselves when building a criminal case otherwise they would see all their hard work negated in the courtroom.
I don't know about you, but I would rather hear what people think is "PC talk" now than see him walk or even live later. JM2CW.
You are missing the point. Why hadn't CID or anyone else investigated this guy BEFORE the attacks. I don't care how they handle it now. The Soldiers are already dead.
rifleman2000
11-13-09, 14:40
It took us less than 90 days to get rid of a skinhead that was in our sniper platoon. Our next trip up to Walter Reed is going to be interesting.
Case in point. Extremist groups are not welcome in the Army, except of course, those that represent the terrorists we are at war with.
It is a PC double standard.
John_Wayne777
11-13-09, 15:43
A lot of things are being confused here.
First there is the criminal investigation against Hassan: That has to proceed exactly by the book to avoid process errors that can come back to bite the prosecution of this scumbag in court or during a court martial. The CID is going to play the facts of that case close to the vest and isn't going to talk to the press about it because doing so can jeopardize their case.
Second there is the Army's response. Because the Army is this guy's employer and is involved in the investigation it's not like the top Army brass can call for his head on a platter loud and in public.
Thirdly there is the press. They have a lot more freedom than the Army or CID does. They can say pretty much whatever they want. Within the press there are certainly those trying to pass this whole thing off as something other than what it is...an act of terrorism. Those voices get weaker every time we learn something new about this jackass.
Fourthly there is the question of why this nutbag was allowed to continue in the Army despite a bunch of warning signs. Obviously political correctness played some role in this debacle. On NPR there was a story yesterday morning about how Hassan's teachers and supervisors, and I quote, "bent over backwards" to help the guy out because he was muslim. Further, his teachers graded him better than they should because, and I quote, they "were concerned that their personal distaste for his expressed views were coloring their academic judgment of him."
The bottom line is that the "Diversity!" stuff in at least that part of the military was so thick in the air that a bunch of mental health professionals couldn't see a dangerous psychopath in their midst because he was muslim. Obviously that needs to be addressed by the military brass...but everybody here should be wise enough to realize that is a pretty sticky problem for military brass to deal with.
All of this is getting confused in this discussion.
I don't doubt for a second that the folks in Army CID who are dealing with this case are committed to making the man who gunned down their brother soldiers answer for every drop of blood he spilled. I don't think it's fair to classify the CID as "terrorist friendly" because they are trying to do their job. Law enforcement, especially if it is being carried out against a US citizen, is a complicated ballgame with lots of rules that the cops have to follow....
...and that is as it should be. Rights are designed to protect the innocent even though scumbags often make the most use of them. To get a solid conviction and the maximum sentence this case will have to be 100% by the book so that hopefully when the time comes to execute this dumbass the best argument his lawyer will be able to make is the one that Muhammed's lawyer made...and that wasn't very convincing to the Supreme Court or to anyone who could grant him clemency.
We know that this whole thing presents a sticky problem for Army brass...but it is just unfair to say that the CID is not on TV screaming for this guy's blood because they are trying to cover up the fact that he's a terrorist. They aren't on TV screaming for blood because firstly it's unprofessional, and more importantly it can damage their chances to actually hold this jerk accountable for the murder of servicemen. I'm sure they want to dot all the i's and cross all the t's to make sure this guy never takes another free breath for the rest of his (hopefully judicially shortened) life.
I know this topic inflames emotions but let's not paint with too broad a brush.
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