View Full Version : What makes an M4 an M4?
CapnCrunch
07-06-06, 16:00
In response to the other thread, I thought I'd pose the above question, and offer some answers. If this makes some of you mad, I'm sorry...
Upper Receiver:
The M4 Upper receiver is Type III Hard Anodized (HA) with a Nickel Acetate final seal per the TDP. Who currently uses Type III HA on their uppers? Colt and FN, first and foremost. Daniel Defense does as well. Who else? Well, there the line begins to blur. LMT might... I'll go as far as to say that more than likely no one else does. Most use Type II HA, some use even lesser finishes. Heck, some VERY "high end" and "custom" manufacturers use bake on finishes over bare aluminum. This is VERY much a bad idea.
What does that mean? Well, Type II HA won't be as durable. If your rifle sees more than the inside of your safe, the finish will chip and flake away, leaving you with bare, unprotected, soft as butter aluminum.
The M4 also features extended feedramps of a different angle than that of the M16, and 9/10s of the commercial clones on the market. They are machined in prior to anodizing. Not after. Again, not a good idea. LMT, FN, Colt, and CMT offer correct feedramp geometry in their A4 and M4 upper receivers. Other people might, but if they do I have no experience with them.
Current M4 Carbines features the M1913 "Picatinny" rail on the 12:00 position of the upper receiver. Go to Biggerhammer.net and check the drawings. Not all upper receiver rails are created equal.
Barrel:
The M4 carbine barrel is a strange beast. Underneath the handguards it is a diminutive 0.655-ish" in diameter, stepping up to a .0745-ish" diameter for the FSB, and then dropping again to a .735ish". From there you have the 1-ish" long M203 cut which is .605-ish", which then steps back up to .735-ish" for 2-ish" to the final stepdown, which is .700-ish". You can find the drawings online somewhere to get a better idea. I'm too lazy to dig them up, and my description is very poor. To top that off, my M4 barrel has a Surefire suppressor adapter on it, and I'm too lazy to pull that or the HG's off. These numbers are to the best of my memory. But I'm not very smart, so...
The barrel extension has the infamous 52 degree extended feedramps, which mate up with the feedramps in the upper receiver. The M4 also has the unique M4 handguard cap, which allows it to mount an M203. No, you cannot mount an M203 with a standard handguard cap.
The barrel has a 1/7RH rifling twist, and has a true 5.56 NATO chamber for digesting crap ammo. It is 4150 CMV of the Mil-B-11595E spec. More details can be found here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=37
I won't go into gasport sizing because a few manufacturers have invested a lot of money in getting it right, and I'm not going to blow that for them. Sorry guys, if you wanna know, you'll have to find out for yourselves.
The barrels are also individually High Pressure Tested (HPT) and then Magnetic Particle Inspected (MPI). Colt and BCM do this on their barrels. Others... Well, you'll just have to call and ask.
Bolt and Carrier:
The M4 has an extractor assembly that is slightly different that that of the M16s. Unfortunately, it seems that 99% of the commercial manufacturers didn't get that memo either. It uses a 4 coil gold spring, IIRC... I might be wrong there, but the part number from Brownell's is 160-304-025.
The bolt is shot peened, HPT and MPI. The carrier key is staked in place properly. There is much more to be said, but typing this is making me hungry. I'll leave it to other people to chime in with.
Buffer Weight:
IIRC, current M4's ship with a "HH", "2", or "H2" buffer (same thing). They may still use "H" buffers, save for the R0921HB, which has always shipped with a "2" buffer, AFAIK. You'll have to ask a higher authority on the matter.
In Conclusion:
Do you want to wager a guess as to how many manufacturers offer these things aside from Colt?
I'll give you a clue, it ain't many...
I'm not saying that anything other than Colt is junk... Far from it. My favorite Mil-Spec barrels are coming from BCM right now, and Daniel Defense makes some of the nicest uppers I've ever seen. Hell, even almighty Colt turns out a lemon every now and then... It's just how much less often that they do it that makes them better than most.
So what was the reason for typing all of this? Just to let you guys know:
M4 is more than a name. It is a set of technical specifications set forth to control the quality of arms that the military purchases. Even though a company might call a rifle an M4, it may be the polar opposite. Research what you buy, and make sure you buy quality the first time around.
I'll post an update later (maybe another thread) with examples of questions to ask, and things to watch out for when buying or building an AR.
Edited to add: Oh yeah, feel free to correct any mistakes I made, or clarify any points of interest that I may not have been too clear on.
Thanks a lot for taking the time to list the info.
"M4gery" is still an internet BS term regardless - its use should die.
As terms do, they grow in spectrum to encompase more as time goes, and with legal backing, "M4" has become more than a military designator.
If the "M4gery" fans want to be very technical then the M4 is more than M4 - it's M4A3, etc.
If you want specifics then call it by the specifics such as Bushmaster XM_ or an Armalite M-15_ for example.
For me the term "M4gery" carries with it the same weight as calling a magazine a clip. Incorrect.
Again, back on topic, CapnCrunch that is great specific information.
Knowledge is power.
baffle Stack
07-06-06, 16:56
Thanks. I learned a lot. Can you tell us which companies have done their homework on gas port size? You don't have to discloses the specs.
CapnCrunch
07-06-06, 17:07
Well, I know for a fact Colt (they own the rights to the TDP) does, and BCM uses the same size on their 14.5" barrels. I haven't measured an LMT, but I'd imagine they're pretty close as well.
As far as everyone else goes... I haven't got the foggiest. The Bushmaster guns run a port size that's a little small for my tastes.
Edited to add: Daniel Defense. Forgot about them. They're in the good to go category as well.
Ice Cream Man
07-06-06, 18:22
Thank you CapnCrunch that was very informative.
Great info Capn! Thanks for sharing!
...
If the "M4gery" fans want to be very technical then the M4 is more than M4 - it's M4A3, etc....
The M4A3 was a Sherman Tank with a 500hp gasoline engine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_tank#US_Variants
HAMMERDROP
07-06-06, 21:41
Cool facts, I am sure they will makes some weenies shrivel ... but the truth never hurts it clarifies. Good Job ...
The M4A3 was a Sherman Tank with a 500hp gasoline engine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_tank#US_Variants
Yeah, google is a wonderful tool.
Sorry, I mis-typed: M4 and M4A1.
Glad you could point out the mistake.
K.L. Davis
07-06-06, 23:24
The M4A3 was a Sherman Tank with a 500hp gasoline engine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_tank#US_Variants
Good to point out that the "M" designation alone does not mean a lot... it must be used with the proper noun nomenclature to properly describe something -- there are most assuredly at least two typs of every M(something) in existance.
Also, "M" is the type designator for DoD wide use... "Mk" (mark) designation, like the Mk18, is used for items that are in the Naval system only and even here it can be a rifle, a bridge transporter or even a torpedo. The follow-on versions of the Mk designated materials are refered to as "Mods", like the Mk12 Mod1 SPR... and the "M" designation uses A1, A2, etc -- and of course things that fly through the air have their own MDS.
BTW: M4 was chosen as the natural extension of the design as a replacement for the current SMG, the M3(series).
What! No M40A2?
M4A1
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Afghan%20Take%20II/Kevin078.jpg
Ours (DOS) dont have the H2 buffer (they are all still H's) and they dont have the upgrade to the extractor.
M4A1
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Afghan%20Take%20II/Kevin078.jpg
Ours (DOS) dont have the H2 buffer (they are all still H's) and they dont have the upgrade to the extractor.
OH BOY :eek:
Kevin, are you hiring? I'll change trash can liners and sweep floors as long as I can take that out for a spin. Oh and I'm a big hockey fan as well ;)
BTW: M4 was chosen as the natural extension of the design as a replacement for the current SMG, the M3(series).
?
I think its the continuation of the carbine series, M1, M2, M3.
Bob
Pat_Rogers
07-09-06, 06:37
There was an M40A2, but it was a Recoiless Rifle....
I had the opportunity to put a lot of rounds downrange in the mid 80's on the original 7 XM4 Carbines that the Marine Corps received when the Army didn't have further use for them in 1986.
(Then) Maj Jack Muth was OIC of Firepower Branch at the time (and now works for Colt).
According to Maj Muth, the M4 designator had nothing to do with sub caliber machine guns. (US Sub Machine Gun M3/ M3A1)
The M4/ M4A1 is a direct descendent of the US Carbines Cal .30 M1/ M1A1/ M2/ M3.
Maj Muth had the direct link on this, as he was the go to guy for the services.
The M4 Carbine designator was apparently also why funding was not available when Maj Muth suggested- and USMC agreed- that the M4 replace the pistols in the infantry Bn's.
The buzz was that congress would fund a modification of the M16A2 (that is, an M16A2 Carbine) but not a new system (the M4 Carbine).
Hey Bob- what do you know anyway- you only have 152 posts ;)
K.L. Davis
07-09-06, 11:04
Hey... I am old enough to remember the 106mm, some of the weps tracks still had them -- I of course, thought that the spotter was the coolest part of the system though. I just was jabbing at why the skip over the designation for the sniper rifle ;)
This is what is so fun about these forums... I was told by a person that was involved in the development of the M4 that the type classification did not have anything to do with the carbine and was based on its being a replacement for the Grease Gun. I carried the M3A1 for awhile... then we had them replaced with the 177, a few guys got the MP5, but in the end wished they had been struck blind rather than given that thing... but I never got to see one of the original XM4s
I know that some people say the funding was cut because it was "Necessary" but I know nothing of such things...
Pat_Rogers
07-12-06, 13:46
I'm not sure how you figure that the M4 Carbine would have it's genesis in the M3A1 smg. SMG had one track- carbine another, and rifles another. It of course makes sense that it would follow the carbine track.
Of course common sense and the gun business are seldom compatible. I'll base by comments on coming directly from the OIC at Firepower Branch at the time, but your source may have a better track. We received that verbally at Firepower prior to being introduced (so to speak) the guns.
At the time that the Marine Corps adopted the M4A1 as the CQBR there were appx 650 smg in the entire Marine Corps. The only M3A1's at the time were in Tanks (and very few exist in the Marine Corps) and it was i believe a limited standard in the 80's.
The CQBR replaced the MP5 smg in the Force Reconnaissance Companies- and there were very few MP-5's running around.
If you remember, the M14 was to replace a host of other weapons, including the M1, M1/M2 Carbines, M1918A2 Automatic Rifle, and the M3A1 smg.
great reading right here!
K.L. Davis
07-12-06, 19:37
I'm not sure how you figure that the M4 Carbine would have it's genesis in the M3A1 smg. SMG had one track- carbine another, and rifles another. It of course makes sense that it would follow the carbine track.
Of course common sense and the gun business are seldom compatible. I'll base by comments on coming directly from the OIC at Firepower Branch at the time, but your source may have a better track. We received that verbally at Firepower prior to being introduced (so to speak) the guns.
At the time that the Marine Corps adopted the M4A1 as the CQBR there were appx 650 smg in the entire Marine Corps. The only M3A1's at the time were in Tanks (and very few exist in the Marine Corps) and it was i believe a limited standard in the 80's.
The CQBR replaced the MP5 smg in the Force Reconnaissance Companies- and there were very few MP-5's running around.
If you remember, the M14 was to replace a host of other weapons, including the M1, M1/M2 Carbines, M1918A2 Automatic Rifle, and the M3A1 smg.
Pat,
The "name" M4 certainly has been debated enough I guess... but I think you said it best earlier -- the firearms industry and the military jugernaut are strange beasts indeed. I have no doubt that what you say is correct and is substantiated by the court papers; but, I also have no reason to not trust the gentleman that told me what I have said. It has occured to me that there are many years between what I am talking about and what you mention, it could be as simple as the difference between what was and what is, often different.
EliteA4Aggie
07-15-06, 22:49
very informative thread, thanks for all the great info.:)
Great thread! I learned a bit with that one. Thanks.
someone please tell me is my Smith & Wesson M&P 15 a M4 or not ?
TIA
someone please tell me is my Smith & Wesson M&P 15 a M4 or not ?
TIA
Well the first thing is that a true Military M4 has a 14.5" barrel. The barrel also have to be 4150, HPT/MP tested and 1/7 twist. The barrel you have doesn't have any of those things.
C4
So reading between the lines, BCM uppers aren't Type III?
So reading between the lines, BCM uppers aren't Type III?
BCM uses CMT M4 receivers (which is one of the places where Colt gets theirs).
C4
Archangel- what do you prefer to call the short carbines that look like M4s? m4gery is a great name. It's a person's best (most of the time still half-assed) attempt to get the M4 look, therefore a simple forgery.
I know you think the term M4gery is getting old but it has it's place. If anything, this thread proves that.
Submariner
08-23-06, 15:59
I have a Colt M4-marked flat top upper, a Colt 14.5" 1/7 C MP barrel with "F" front sight base, a permanently attached Vortex (so it is a non-NFA weapon), a Colt 6520 lower receiver (large pin FC pins), a Colt 4 position stock and Colt M4 handguards. A Colt M4 (or M4A1) it ain't; its a Colt M4gery.:D
ETA: A Colt M16 Bolt Carrier and an "MPC" Bolt.
Hoplophile
08-23-06, 17:40
They use CMT upper receiver FORGINGS, right?
I didn't think CMT was a forge...
BCM uses CMT M4 receivers (which is one of the places where Colt gets theirs).
C4
OK, color me stupid. Does that mean that they ARE Type III anodized?
LukeMacGillie
08-23-06, 18:11
Ours (DOS) dont have the H2 buffer (they are all still H's) and they dont have the upgrade to the extractor.
They are getting new extractor springs and black inserts when they come back stateside, since for some reason they are not getting changed out in the field.
O rings are presently a no-go, as folks in the field have no complaints about extraction issues and thus the O ring is not needed. :rolleyes:
As to the Heavier buffers, also a no go, nothing to support the use(expense) of replacing them in the entire fleet of carbines.
someone please tell me is my Smith & Wesson M&P 15 a M4 or not ?
will someone plase just give me a yes or no answer. I am new to AR's and I do not understand all the stuff you guys are talking about.
someone please tell me is my Smith & Wesson M&P 15 a M4 or not ?
will someone plase just give me a yes or no answer. I am new to AR's and I do not understand all the stuff you guys are talking about.
Technically no. It has the wrong barrel twist, wrong barrel material, I don't believe it has the correct feedramps, the bolt and barrel aren't properly tested, I doubt that the receiver extension is the milspec size, etc. etc.
Submariner
08-23-06, 20:08
someone please tell me is my Smith & Wesson M&P 15 a M4 or not ?
In a word, NO.
so what is it then?
A US-made .223 REM (or, maybe, 5.56mm NATO) carbine that looks and functions similarly to an M4.
so what is it then?
A copy? It's all of the flash without some of the substance. It's up to you to decide if the substance that's missin is important to you or not.
ChromeLined
08-23-06, 23:43
A real M4 or M4A1 is a carbine made acording to Colts TDP that specifies materials used and parts dimensions.Is marked US GOVT PROPERTY.Is also marked COLT DEFENSE and is capable of bothe semi-auto and full-auto fire..its only made by Colt for the US Military and unless your a class 3 dealer who gets post 86 machine gun samples to demonstrate for law enforcement to sell to them or other individulas who are lucky enough that their job issues one to them...even if your able to legaly buy a machine gun the best your ever gonna do is an M4 type built on an M16A2 marked lower.
Sorry, forgot that Continental machines the lowers for them...
so realisticly I have a civilian model M4?
so realisticly I have a civilian model M4?
No, you have an aesthetic copy.
A civilian model of the M4, requiring no NFA paperwork, would be a Colt 6920.
so when somone asks me what kind of gun I shoot what should I tell them I shoot?
so when somone asks me what kind of gun I shoot what should I tell them I shoot?
An AR15 carbine.
OK before I ask my next question I just want everyone to know I am not trying to be a smartass I am new to these types of firearms and I am just trying to educate myself.
What makes a firearm a carbine?
OK before I ask my next question I just want everyone to know I am not trying to be a smartass I am new to these types of firearms and I am just trying to educate myself.
What makes a firearm a carbine?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbine
No, you have an aesthetic copy.
A civilian model of the M4, requiring no NFA paperwork, would be a Colt 6920.
The LE6920 has a 16.1" barrel versus a 14.5" barrel for the M4. You are correct that not being full-auto or an SBR, it would require no NFA paperwork, but it's still not an "M4". It's a damn good AR carbine though.
http://www.colt.com/law/m4.asp (http://www.colt.com/mil/M4.asp)
LukeMacGillie
08-24-06, 13:51
The LE6920 has a 16.1" barrel versus a 14.5" barrel for the M4. You are correct that not being full-auto or an SBR, it would require no NFA paperwork, but it's still not an "M4". It's a damn good AR carbine though.
http://www.colt.com/law/m4.asp (http://www.colt.com/mil/M4.asp)
And then there's the M4 Commando with its 11.5.
You can pretty much rule out barrel length as a determining factor in what is or is not an M4
The LE6920 has a 16.1" barrel versus a 14.5" barrel for the M4. You are correct that not being full-auto or an SBR, it would require no NFA paperwork, but it's still not an "M4". It's a damn good AR carbine though.
http://www.colt.com/law/m4.asp (http://www.colt.com/mil/M4.asp)
Which therefore makes it the "civilian version of the M4".
If you want to get all technical NONE of them are M4s because the pins are the wrong sizes and aren't full auto, 14.5" barrel or not.
Jay Cunningham
08-24-06, 14:53
I am all for accuracy in the description of an action or an object. I would refer to an LE6920 as a "carbine" instead of a "gun" or "firearm" or weapon" because that is the simplest, most accurate term for that machine.
However...
If I asked someone what type of carbine they were bringing to a class and they told me "an M4" I would know what they were talking about whether it was an Army-issue M4 or an LE6920.
It boils down to: How nit-picky does one intend to be and to what end?
It reminds me of a phrase: Preoccupation with Inconsequential Increments.
FWIW, I like the term "M4 pattern" myself.
David Marshall Williams (aka "Carbine Williams") was born 13 November 1900 in Godwin, Cumberland County, North Carolina, the eldest of seven children. As a young boy, he worked on his family's farm, but showed a marked affinity as a machinist. He dropped out of school after eighth grade, and began work in Ellery Ezzell’s Blacksmith Shop in Godwin, learning the craft of working metals.
Known as “Marshall” to his friends, he caught some of the American military fervor of the early twentieth century, and although not yet officially old enough, enlisted in the US Navy, giving the recruiter a false age. He spent only a short time in the navy before this was realized, and he was discharged for being underage. After returning home from the navy, he spent one semester at Blackstone Military Academy in Virginia before being expelled.
After returning to Godwin from the military academy, he was employed by the Atlantic Coast Line Railroad at the station in town. This job assisted with his other business, an illegal distillery in the woods just outside of town. The distillery apparently had some high-level customers. During the time of Prohibition, a suitcase would be loaded with moonshine was placed on a train destined for Washington, DC every other day. On alternate days, when a shipment was not placed on the train to the nation's capitol, another suitcase containing a similar shipment was loaded onto the bus for Raleigh, the state capitol. The specific destinations and receivers of these shipments have never been revealed, but assumptions are rife about who in those cities would circumvent Prohibition to satisfy a taste for 'shine.
The operation of the distillery was generally common knowledge to most people in the area, but the local constabulary were still obligated to enforce the law whenever possible. A raid was conducted on the distillery in 1921, and during the course of this action, Deputy Sheriff Al Pate was shot to death. Williams was some distance away at the time of the shooting, assisting Ellery Ezzell, the blacksmith, in repairing a metal roof. Hearing the shooting he ran to the distillery, arriving just as the shooter, a man he employed to operate the distillery, had fled, dropping the pistol used in the shooting on the ground. Williams picked up the weapon just as the Sheriff arrived, and was arrested.
Williams was initially charged with first-degree murder since a law enforcement officer had been killed, but the trial ended in a hung jury, unable to determine guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Rather than go through another trial, Williams was persuaded to plead guilty to a lesser charge of second-degree murder, being promised a lesser penalty. The shooting had occurred on his land, at his distillery, and that made him an accessory. The judge, however, was not in the mood for making deals, and Williams was sentenced to a twenty to thirty year term for a crime he did not commit.
Williams was transported to Caledonia State Prison in Halifax County, North Carolina. During the early part of his incarceration, the prison superintendent began to observe in him a certain genius for metal work and gunsmithing. He was assigned to the prison's machine shop where he repaired weapons for the guards.
His extraordinary skills in the machine shop permitted him to stay ahead of the workload, and allowed him time for his own hobby. He began building lathes and other tools, and then parts for guns. He saved paper and pencils, and stayed up late at night drawing plans for various firearms. His mother sent him technical data on guns, and provided him with contacts with patent attorneys. While in prison, he invented the short-stroke piston and the floating chamber principles, eventually revolutionizing small arms manufacture.
The Williams Family went on a campaign to have his sentence commuted, and received assistance from the Cumberland County Sheriff having arrested him and the widow of the man he was accused of killing. In 1929, North Carolina Governor Angus W. McLean reduced the sentence, and Williams left prison after only seven years.
Back in Cumberland County, he set to work perfecting his inventions, and filing patents. In 1933, he traveled to Washington, DC to show his work to the US War Department. His first contract was to modify the .30 caliber Browning rifle to fire .22 caliber smokeless ammunition. The use of his short-stroke piston, developed while he had been in prison, in the US Army M-1 Carbine manufactured by the Winchester Arms Company and others, brought his greatest fame and the nickname "Carbine Williams." General Douglas MacArthur called this light rapid-fire carbine, "One of the strongest contributing factors in our victory in the Pacific." His fame was great enough for him to be portrayed by the actor Jimmy Stewart in the movie “Carbine Williams” released in 1952.
Williams spent the remainder of his life alternating his time between his home in Godwin and an apartment he kept in Connecticut near the offices of the major arms manufacturers where he worked under contract as a consultant. He died of pneumonia in Dorothea Dix Hospital Raleigh, Wake County, North Carolina on 8 January 1975. He is buried in the Old Bluff Presbyterian Church Cemetery in Godwin, Cumberland County, North Carolina.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Marshall_Williams"
The above sentance in bold is actually what makes a carbine a carbine; no matter what variant.
David Marshall Williams (aka "Carbine Williams") was born
...*snip*...
While in prison, he invented the short-stroke piston and the floating chamber principles, eventually revolutionizing small arms manufacture.
...*snip*...
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Marshall_Williams"
The above sentance in bold is actually what makes a carbine a carbine; no matter what variant.
I have no idea how you came to that conclusion, but I respectfully and wholely disagree with you.
A better definition of the term carbine can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbine
"A carbine is a firearm similar to, but generally shorter and less powerful than, a rifle or musket of a given period."
The above just about sums it up, however the article is worth reading in its entirety. I'm not debating the obvious relevance of Mr. Williams' contributions to small arms design, only that they are not what truly defines whether a firearm is a carbine, rifle, etc.
Hope this helps,
Clint
As to "What makes an M4 an M4?":
Simple: M4's are made by Colt. Everything else, for the time being, is an M4-"type" carbine at best, and a marginal hammer at worst.
There are some outstanding companies making what I would consider equals to the original, but at the time being there is only one manufacturer of the M4 carbine (sometimes it really hurts to say that, lol).
Stay safe,
Clint
Exactly. Toyota is the only one to make the "Solara" but Lexus uses as nice or nicer parts and makes one helluva car!
Shorter, lighter weight shoulder arms were being called "carbines" centuries before David "Carbine" Williams was ever born.
You were only reading from a link someone sent you- you just didn't know. Don't worry about it.
OK I was wrong!
As suicide said, don't worry about it. No one is born knowing this stuff, it just takes a while of sitting back, listening, and asking questions.
Welcome to the site! :cool:
Which therefore makes it the "civilian version of the M4".
If you want to get all technical NONE of them are M4s because the pins are the wrong sizes and aren't full auto, 14.5" barrel or not.
I am by nature and by vocation "all technical," ... My apologies.
smith- none of us have a true M4 carbine and not too many have good clones. you don't need one to be a member here.
As long as whatever you have uses an AR15 lower, you belong here ;)
ChromeLined
08-25-06, 01:18
A carbine is a shorter, lighter rifle version of its parent heavier,longer version.:D
As to "What makes an M4 an M4?":
Simple: M4's are made by Colt. Everything else, for the time being, is an M4-"type" carbine at best, and a marginal hammer at worst.
There are some outstanding companies making what I would consider equals to the original, but at the time being there is only one manufacturer of the M4 carbine (sometimes it really hurts to say that, lol).
Stay safe,
Clint
FN make a M4 TYPE?
I ended up this year buying a LMT Defender 2000 with there M4 14.5 upper
I like it alot better than my Bushmaster Shorty with its heavy ass barrel
The MAIN reason I bought the LMT /M4 type was because of the 1/7 TWIST and it weighs a tad less than some of the other carbines!
I dont care about the LOOKs at all and dont even like the step down barrel
someone please tell me is my Smith & Wesson M&P 15 a M4 or not ?
TIA
I bought my first AR15 back in 83/84
I have owend COLT,Bushmaster,LMT
I havent bought the S&W AR15 yet but have played with one.
They seem Very Nice!
And made buy a good company
All that matters is if it run 100% and shoots straight
Thanks, Very well said and informative.
CAInstructorTx
01-28-10, 08:21
So my LE6920 is, or is not an M4, or an M4 "type"? I'm confused, the explanations seem to be going back and forth. Not to stoke the fire again, and it makes no difference to me, I love the Colt regardless, just curious.
Jay Cunningham
01-28-10, 08:26
CAInstructorTx,
This thread is over three years old.
CAInstructorTx
01-28-10, 08:58
hahaha. Oops, I guess it would've been a while before someone responded. My bad, thanks.
rifleman2000
01-28-10, 09:07
To mix up the old thread, the M4 designator is a military term.
For example, all M1 Garands were M1 Garands, even if Springfield Armory did not make them.
CAInstructorTx
01-28-10, 09:49
exactly, just like m1911s from Colt, Remington Rand, Singer Sewing and others. I gotcha. Side note, on the front of my Colt's upper receiver, just behind the delta ring, under the rail, there is "M4" stamped into the metal. Who knows.
lanceriley
01-28-10, 18:36
TDP didn't mention magpul parts... either.
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