View Full Version : The Sacred Cows of Pistol Shooters
Business_Casual
11-14-09, 12:07
Add yours...
1) If I buy a new pistol, my shooting will improve
2) Low left - it's the sights/trigger
3) The grip angle is so important to shooting well
4) I only need 5/6/7/8 rounds for any gunfight I'll be in
5) I don't need to practice malfuction clearance, I just need a "reliable" handgun
6) Practicing weak hand is a waste of time
7) My XYZ pistol is better than your ABC pistol because it is metal/plastic/German
"I don't shoot past 15 yards cause then I should have a rifle."
I carry a Colt .45 because they don't make a Colt .46.:rolleyes:
John Moses Browning was a GOD.
Glock Perfection.
John Hearne
11-14-09, 12:31
If I shoot enough I will hit something so I'm willing to carry a pistol that doesn't fit my hand well to have lots of bullets on tap.
I have a laser, why would I need to spend money on low light training?
John Moses Browning was a GOD.
.
Hey, wait a minute... He was at least a Saint.:D
"I don't need any additional training because my buddy who is a NRA instructor showed me how to shoot when I bought my pistol"....
" I don't need training anymore because I passed the course to get my LTCF"....
Business_Casual
11-14-09, 12:41
If I file off/reduce/reshape some part, I'll be faster than if I practice a lot with a stock gun.
rubberneck
11-14-09, 13:13
If it can't print a one inch group at 25 yards than it doesn't have acceptable accuracy.
Singlestack Wonder
11-14-09, 13:30
"The only purpose of a handgun is for fighting to get to your rifle"..Clint Smith
4) I only need 5/6/7/8 rounds for any gunfight I'll be in
A subset of the above:
4b) If I need more than x rounds for a gunfight, I should have brought a machine gun/artillery/tank/nuke/etc...
Oh, and this nonsense:
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/bridoyal/45acp10.jpg
Most gunfights are closer than 15 yards, I don't need to practice distance shooting.
GunSlinger
11-14-09, 14:56
-don't lube your gun, it will only attract dirt and sand causing malfunctions.
-use x-y-z lube, it's "bonds" to the metal on a "molecular level."
- x-y-z type polymer gun grip must be stippled because when it gets wet or "bloody" it will slip out of your hand.
-if you ever want to shoot a perfect score in x-y-z pistol drill you will need to be shooting a 1911.
I feel like I could go all day with this.
RAM Engineer
11-14-09, 16:50
The Israelis use <item/technique>, therefore it must be useful.
Littlelebowski
11-14-09, 17:39
"it's reliable, you were just limp wristing it"
Littlelebowski
11-14-09, 17:46
I love this thread.
SWATcop556
11-14-09, 17:59
If I was running a match grade weapon then I could shoot like that too!
I must just be having an off-day at the range (because all gun fights happen when your "on")
9mm is 45ACP set to stun.
You might be able to expand a 9mm but you can't shrink a 45.
This could go on and on.............:cool:
Good thread MP!
You know I carry a ______ cal because it's got knock down power. Even if I knick his chest hair it's going to explode their heart.
"Shooting like 'this' is how the pros do it. Just watch 'that' action movie."
http://www.welcometopixelton.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/kitten_love.jpg
sandman99and9
11-14-09, 18:49
I shoot this because it's what the navy seals/delta/special forces use !!!
S.M.
Shadow1198
11-14-09, 23:33
"Two...smoking...shoes."
The j-frame is perfect for a woman.
5 shots is all I need.
Racking a pump action will always scare 'em off.
"Plastic guns" can get through a metal detector.
Learn point shooting because real life is too fast to use the sites.
The Taurus 24/7 is the choice of the Green Berets and Delta Force. (ouch)
The FN 5.7 is the best defensive round ever and will stop anything.
5.56 will not stop anything.
I want xxx caliber because it has a one shot stop of 99%
Guns that don't have a safety are not as safe.
A safety takes too long to disengage.
9mm won't penetrate through a heavy winter coat.
9mm is more likely to over-penetrate through a person.
This thread is shaping up to be full of win. ;)
Lighter, faster bullets are better because they transfer more energy into the target.
Very good, Shadow. All of yours made me laugh.
The j-frame is perfect for a woman.
Reminds me of a dude telling me that my wife needs a revolver because "double action ensures that a woman only shoots when she intends to." As though women are retards. Get the **** outta here....
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-15-09, 04:30
I gotta buy those new sights because some guy who knows a guy at a magazine says so. Plus, I can practice nearly useless drills with them. ;)
QuickStrike
11-15-09, 06:14
.45's recoil is such, that after the first shot, all subsequent shots will go higher and higher!
CaptainDooley
11-15-09, 07:55
Interestingly enough, this link posted in the thread on M&Ps with Crimsons has quite a few in it (including in the comments):
http://thinkinggunfighter.blogspot.com/
3 feet, 3 rounds, 3 seconds
The snub handles 99.99% of DGU incidents. Are you really that much better armed if your gun handles 99.999% instead?
Few gunfights require rapid reloading (or reloading at all).
Sure, it doesn’t hold as many rounds of ammo as some, and it is slower to reload than some, but does that really matter?
The snub revolver is one of the most versatile handgun options for self defense.
John_Wayne777
11-15-09, 11:34
I think the context in which that series of assertions is made is important to remember. The author is discussing whether or not the S&W J frame is still a relevant option for self defense today. It's true that the J frame is a limited platform...and yet if you look at the carry gear of many switched on individuals you'll find a J frame as a part of their regular carry.
Limited though they are, they are still one of the most versatile carry options on the market today. I carry a J frame daily, mainly as a BUG...but when I have to carry it as a primary I do so without a whole lot of trepidation because, although limited, it can handle the majority of self defense scenarios I am likely to face. It's not ideal and it's not my first choice, but sometimes it's the only choice for concealed carry that I have.
CaptainDooley
11-15-09, 11:43
I understand what you're saying, and agree 100% with it.
But there are shooters out there (my brother-in-law comes to mind) who pretty much only shoot revolvers and hold up stuff like this as proof as to why all women (and everyone if they had half a brain) should carry J-Frames/revolvers only and all that other stuff is just gonna get in your way and slow you down.
A perfect example is that first bullet point which was the first comment left in response to the article.
Business_Casual
11-15-09, 12:08
I don't need to carry today because nothing is going to happen.
I understand what you're saying, and agree 100% with it.
But there are shooters out there (my brother-in-law comes to mind) who pretty much only shoot revolvers and hold up stuff like this as proof as to why all women (and everyone if they had half a brain) should carry J-Frames/revolvers only and all that other stuff is just gonna get in your way and slow you down.
A perfect example is that first bullet point which was the first comment left in response to the article.
Look at the comments in part 1 of that post. There's a guy that advocates a "nasty" 38spl round moving at 1700fps. I looked it up, turns out it uses a 60grn bullet.:rolleyes:
you should only have to shoot once. :D
this is a good thread...
MarshallDodge
11-15-09, 21:00
Minute of bad guy.
Combat accurate.
Using either one as a reason for poor shooting technique or equipment.
Combat accurate.
I work at a range, and a guy was shooting as fast as he can but was hitting all over the target (3 yards). When I asked him about it, he said he was just going for "combat accuracy".
:rolleyes:
I realize there's a time and place for everything, but that's setting yourself up for failure.
There's a few that's already been mentioned, but the one that really gets me is when people talk about the Taurus Judge.
"You just point it in the general direction, you dont even have to aim"
And the one where "all you need is 1-2 shots, anymore than that and you need more training"
Usually touted by the old timers who are too stubborn to grasp technology. I'm not raggin on old people, because obviously they've survived this long, but c'mon.
Outlander Systems
11-15-09, 21:28
"If you can't hit 'em in six shots, throw it in the river, and run!"
Minute of bad guy.
Combat accurate.
Using either one as a reason for poor shooting technique or equipment.
I'd love to have either Travis or Chris from Magpul watching my back with an M4 or handgun and this is in their nomenclature. They aren't advocating poor shooting, they're just saying that if you are cutting the same ragged hole with each shot then perhaps you could be putting more rounds on target with just a little opening up in your shot grouping. That being said, their groups are still mostly 10 ring hits at speed.
"Glock Perfection"
glock "pretty damn good for $499"
there's nicer guns out there, no doubt.
dookie1481
11-15-09, 23:45
I'd love to have either Travis or Chris from Magpul watching my back with an M4 or handgun and this is in their nomenclature. They aren't advocating poor shooting, they're just saying that if you are cutting the same ragged hole with each shot then perhaps you could be putting more rounds on target with just a little opening up in your shot grouping. That being said, their groups are still mostly 10 ring hits at speed.
But they can actually shoot. A lot of people use it as an excuse for their poor shooting.
Jay
John_Wayne777
11-15-09, 23:53
I'd love to have either Travis or Chris from Magpul watching my back with an M4 or handgun and this is in their nomenclature. They aren't advocating poor shooting, they're just saying that if you are cutting the same ragged hole with each shot then perhaps you could be putting more rounds on target with just a little opening up in your shot grouping. That being said, their groups are still mostly 10 ring hits at speed.
Accuracy exists on a sliding scale, with the exact balance of speed and accuracy appropriate for the situation varying depending on the dynamics of the situation. At say 3 yards on a bad guy out in the open I can get an acceptable level of accuracy while still shooting at a pretty good clip. At 15 yards with a bad guy behind some cover the level of precision required to solve the problem goes up considerably.
Generally speaking, lots of the people who spend time on internet message boards extolling the virtues of speed or accuracy suck at both and don't grasp the meaning of "acceptable accuracy" in the first place. Obviously M4Carbine.net isn't included in that classification. ;)
A lot of people use it as an excuse for their poor shooting.
Indeed. If I had a nickel for every time I've been on the range and heard "well, if it was a real dude I'da hit 'em!" while looking at a human sized silhouette that was 5 yards away (stationary, of course, with a stationary shooter) and yet has a grouping you can measure in feet on it, I'd be able to buy a case of .45 FMJ.
Sometimes "good enough" is better in the accuracy department than hair splitting accuracy....but unfortunately most people's conception of "good enough" is way off. This is one reason why I recommend classes with Larry Vickers so highly, as his standards generally serve as a wakeup call. If you can actually shoot well enough that LAV taps you on the shoulder and says "Now try speeding it up a bit" then you're off to a good start.
Accuracy exists on a sliding scale, with the exact balance of speed and accuracy appropriate for the situation varying depending on the dynamics of the situation. At say 3 yards on a bad guy out in the open I can get an acceptable level of accuracy while still shooting at a pretty good clip. At 15 yards with a bad guy behind some cover the level of precision required to solve the problem goes up considerably.
Generally speaking, lots of the people who spend time on internet message boards extolling the virtues of speed or accuracy suck at both and don't grasp the meaning of "acceptable accuracy" in the first place. Obviously M4Carbine.net isn't included in that classification. ;)
Indeed. If I had a nickel for every time I've been on the range and heard "well, if it was a real dude I'da hit 'em!" while looking at a human sized silhouette that was 5 yards away (stationary, of course, with a stationary shooter) and yet has a grouping you can measure in feet on it, I'd be able to buy a case of .45 FMJ.
Sometimes "good enough" is better in the accuracy department than hair splitting accuracy....but unfortunately most people's conception of "good enough" is way off. This is one reason why I recommend classes with Larry Vickers so highly, as his standards generally serve as a wakeup call. If you can actually shoot well enough that LAV taps you on the shoulder and says "Now try speeding it up a bit" then you're off to a good start.
Absolutely agree with all of the above. And, just for the record, I'm no Chris or Travis. :)
randyman_ar
11-16-09, 00:16
"it's reliable, you were just limp wristing it"
Amen! I have never understood this rational.
Its "Mil-spec"
This company makes all the stuff for that company, so save your money and buy SHIT
I put a 1,000 rounds through mine, they make great guns
Gotta have a 1 point sling, or your screwed, saw it on a video
There's no such thing as a reliable 1911, I read it on glock talk. :rolleyes:
decodeddiesel
11-16-09, 11:41
A pistol that fits your hand...
A pistol that "feels good" in your hand...
Flashlights/Lasers on a pistol make no sense because all they do is tell everyone where you are...
The 1911 came to JMB in a divine inspiration and is the end all pistol design...
.45ACP Ball is just as effective as modern 9mm hollow point because it was designed to "put down" zealots in the Philippine-American war...
"You don't need to clean/lube a new gun before shooting and/or using it for carry."
Best, Jon
If you don't think my 22LR, .380 acp, etc. is a good defensive caliber, why don't you volunteer to go down range and get shot with it?
Joe Mamma
There's no such thing as a reliable 1911, I read it on glock talk. :rolleyes:
"i read it on glocktalk" should pretty much make you suspect the statement right away...
sometimes i just rile those guys up. :D
it IS a decent place to buy and sell stuff though.. high traffic.
"i read it on glocktalk" should pretty much make you suspect the statement right away...
sometimes i just rile those guys up. :D
it IS a decent place to buy and sell stuff though.. high traffic.
Mainly just classifieds for me too. Once in a while, there'll be a decent thread with some of the more knowledgeable members, but then along come the mall ninjas. Like Danny Glover said in Lethal Weapon, "I'm getting to old for this s**t" and I leave.
Mainly just classifieds for me too. Once in a while, there'll be a decent thread with some of the more knowledgeable members, but then along come the mall ninjas. Like Danny Glover said in Lethal Weapon, "I'm getting to old for this s**t" and I leave.
yeah... if i have serious questions i come here or to AKforum. the mods on both sites lock down anything that gets silly or redundant pretty quick.
this site is full of armed professionals, and akforum is full of serious collectors and shooters. you know generally speaking... hell of a brain trust on both sites. :cool:
Hi, I'm a newbie here, but I've been playing with guns for a long time now. I have a couple:
1. If you act like enough of a critical prick, it will make you look cool, and like you know what you're talking about.
2. If I spend a lot of money and hang enough attachments off my pistol (or AR carbine), I'll look like I'm an operator.
I've fired 80,000 rounds through this gun without any malfunctions. I don't keep notes, but you can trust me.
This gun has never had any malfunctions (except for ones caused by the shooter, the ammo, the magazines, the weather, improper maintenance, lack of lube, sunspot activity, and/or the wrath of Odin).
Calm down, it's not loaded.
I can't conceal anything bigger than a j-frame.
Delta (or SEALs, SAS, HRT, SG-1) just bought a bunch of these.
Hunter Rose
11-17-09, 11:57
Hmmmm, methinks:
"That pistol won't shoot fast, it's bore axis is too high, Glocks are much faster."
World's best fighting handgun? 1911A1!
If that's so, then why does nobody in the world fight with one???
LOL
CaptainDooley
11-17-09, 12:39
Calm down, it's not loaded.
Last time a guy said that to me at the range and didn't change where his unloaded rifle was pointed he ended up with a loaded M14 pointed back at him by my best friend. Oddly enough he didn't feel like staying around and shooting anymore.
"Sir, you should let me carry a .45, these 9mms are junk" - as he hands me his qualification card with a score of 17 out of 30.
"I could have qualified Expert, but I was aiming for the head."
"Air Marshals and Pilots carry frangible ammo so it wont shoot holes in the aircraft skin."
"Why do you carry with a round in the chamber, the locked door will give you plenty of time to rack the slide?"
"My buddy is a Navy SEAL and he said......"
...it is stainless steel the guy said that I do not have to clean it.
...do not worry, the safety was on.
...just carry it in your pocket, you do not need a holster.
...just as good as yours and $300 less.
...hold my beer, watch this!!!
...hold my beer, watch this!!!
Surprised that hasn't been said in the "Dumbest things heard in a gun store" thread
...hold my beer, watch this!!!
Ah... the first line of every redneck 911 call...
Variant on the "Watch this"- "Check this shit out!"
".......Honest, I was just cleaning it."
"I heard about it on AR15.com..."
colt191145lover
11-17-09, 18:36
Forgot a personal favorite..
"I dont like those semi autos they aren't reliable , i only pack a revolver"
colt191145lover
11-17-09, 18:39
:
Customer points at what they think to be a "big " gun in the display case and says "that thing will take your hand off"
"I've never had a problem with mine "
"if i dont take care of the problem in "x" amount of rounds i should give up"
Working behind the counter you get to hear all the great "classics" :p
"Anyone know where I can find a 32 round 9mm clip for my Glock?"
If I had a nickel every time I've read that on gun forums, I'd retire.
ETA* mental slip... I actually typed magazine... but they usually say clip.
colt191145lover
11-17-09, 19:14
"Is that real"
threeheadeddog
11-17-09, 19:38
The rational for shooting an inherantly difficult gun to shoot with either accuracy or speed.
"sure I can shoot as fast as x-y-z master class shooter but I am using my micro-sub-compact-two-finger-high-powered-kicks-like-a-mule-cause-its-only-three-ounces gun because I only shoot defensive guns"
I am so sick of people beliving in the mantra that you should "shoot what you carry" instead of the opposite which is "carry what YOU CAN SHOOT".
I have always carried guns that I could make accurate fast hits with. 1911's, glock 19, S&W M&P, and now a sig 220. I have no trouble concealing them and I feel better knowing that I have a gun that I can use well.
"Anyone know where I can find a 32 round 9mm clip for my Glock?"
If I had a nickel every time I've read that on gun forums, I'd retire.
ETA* mental slip... I actually typed magazine... but they usually say clip.
"Clip" peeves me.
I have a good friend who worked for a very small town and the "Theory" was,
"As long as there is lead in the air, there is hope".
He got out ASAP.
sigmundsauer
11-18-09, 09:24
Kind of surprised nobody has mentioned...
"They all fall to hardball"
or something with "stopping power" in it.
Tim
dirksterg30
11-18-09, 11:13
<insert favorite caliber here> has a one-stop shot rating of 89.6%
"I'm not hitting low, I was aiming at his balls..." My Wife!
"Beware of old guys with (insert revolvers / 1911s) they can probably shoot them..." Me .... All I got.....sorry...
colt191145lover
11-18-09, 14:16
Ive got a bad yet funny habit when someone comes into the store and asks for a "clip for there pistol" ....after saying "you mean a magazine" and I get the same response I give them a M1 Garand clip and ask if this will work in there handgun? The looks on there faces is priceless;)
misanthropist
11-19-09, 12:12
"I'm not hitting low, I was aiming at his balls..." My Wife!
"Beware of old guys with (insert revolvers / 1911s) they can probably shoot them..." Me .... All I got.....sorry...
I am definitely tired of the old saw "beware the man with one gun...he knows how to use it".
Most of the people I have known with one gun had one gun because they weren't really in to guns, and either inherited it or bought one after reading about a nearby break-in in the paper, then stored it in a closet forever afterward.
I think this is often just a mask for people who can't afford a lot of guns to make themselves feel better. But the fact is, guns are fairly cheap. Burning enough ammo to be proficient is the expensive part! So if all you can afford to own is granddad's Lee Enfield, well, MAYBE you're really good with it...but I doubt it!
decodeddiesel
11-19-09, 12:57
I am definitely tired of the old saw "beware the man with one gun...he knows how to use it".
Most of the people I have known with one gun had one gun because they weren't really in to guns, and either inherited it or bought one after reading about a nearby break-in in the paper, then stored it in a closet forever afterward.
I think this is often just a mask for people who can't afford a lot of guns to make themselves feel better. But the fact is, guns are fairly cheap. Burning enough ammo to be proficient is the expensive part! So if all you can afford to own is granddad's Lee Enfield, well, MAYBE you're really good with it...but I doubt it!
Excellent point.
(I hate people too).
BLACK LION
11-19-09, 15:42
Why would I shoot with both eyes open when I can aim better with one closed??"
"Why would I shoot with my left hand when my right hand works just fine"
"I only wear body armor when I am planning on being shot at"
" Why do you train with all that gear on, it just slows you down"
"I cant hit that with a pistol, its 50 yards away or more"
Afew oldies but GOODIES:
"No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun."
"I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 or 30 round magazines or my folding stock."
"I see nothing wrong with waiting periods."
Might have been mentioned already, but preoccupation with what pistols are used by uber-HSLD agencies and units.
Very good point, I am just an average guy who likes to shoot. I did 24 years in the US Navy, but it was all computers and communications so my only "line of duty" firearms activity was watch stander quals and ship's self defense force stuff.
Anyway, my conundrum for the last few years is that I learned to shoot from old school bullseye shooters. Only X rings are good enough....... Over the last few years I have gone from very accurate and slow to less accurate and still slow. I attribute this to getting older and not taking a full on HSLD pistol class. I have had training from several HSLD folks who coached me one on one and taught me drills and tactics (draw, using lights, room stuff...). However, I still default to trying for that X everytime.
Sorry to get off topic, I really appreciate this board and all the bona fide professionals who post.
Thank you all
Mike
Va Beach
Accuracy exists on a sliding scale, with the exact balance of speed and accuracy appropriate for the situation varying depending on the dynamics of the situation. At say 3 yards on a bad guy out in the open I can get an acceptable level of accuracy while still shooting at a pretty good clip. At 15 yards with a bad guy behind some cover the level of precision required to solve the problem goes up considerably.
Generally speaking, lots of the people who spend time on internet message boards extolling the virtues of speed or accuracy suck at both and don't grasp the meaning of "acceptable accuracy" in the first place. Obviously M4Carbine.net isn't included in that classification. ;)
Indeed. If I had a nickel for every time I've been on the range and heard "well, if it was a real dude I'da hit 'em!" while looking at a human sized silhouette that was 5 yards away (stationary, of course, with a stationary shooter) and yet has a grouping you can measure in feet on it, I'd be able to buy a case of .45 FMJ.
Sometimes "good enough" is better in the accuracy department than hair splitting accuracy....but unfortunately most people's conception of "good enough" is way off. This is one reason why I recommend classes with Larry Vickers so highly, as his standards generally serve as a wakeup call. If you can actually shoot well enough that LAV taps you on the shoulder and says "Now try speeding it up a bit" then you're off to a good start.
However, I still default to trying for that X everytime.
Stop using targets with X-rings. Problem solved.
Not trying to sound snide, but there it is. Use a sheet of paper or a paper plate instead of a bullseye target. Anything that hits is a hit. Anything that misses is a miss. Nothing else matters. When you want to demand more accuracy from yourself, use smaller targets.
Remember this one from a couple of years back? The M&P is just a spiffed up Sigma and won't ever amount to much.:rolleyes:
gtmtnbiker98
11-25-09, 07:41
Stop using targets with X-rings. Problem solved.
Not trying to sound snide, but there it is. Use a sheet of paper or a paper plate instead of a bullseye target. Anything that hits is a hit. Anything that misses is a miss. Nothing else matters. When you want to demand more accuracy from yourself, use smaller targets.
Couldn't agree more. Paper plates are the cheapest and most field expedient (haven't used that word since the Corps) targets you can use.
"Be careful, Glocks tend to blow up when you shoot them a lot" :rolleyes:
"Glocks with maritime spring cups are the only guns that can be fired underwater."
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-26-09, 10:05
I used to shoot bullseye targets every time I went to the range. I got to be freaky, attention-grabbing accurate at my static range. But every time we had a tactical match I was SLOW...SLOW!
Later, I bought some little steel spinners that are rifle rated and haven't looked back. I have four of them that I set up at different distances. Making the target a little larger but with no real way to determine how tight my groups are has sped me up substantially.
Recently, I shot a little bullseye. My accuracy has suffered--I won't lie. But it was worth it.
SWATcop556
11-26-09, 18:59
I used to shoot bullseye targets every time I went to the range. I got to be freaky, attention-grabbing accurate at my static range. But every time we had a tactical match I was SLOW...SLOW!
Later, I bought some little steel spinners that are rifle rated and haven't looked back. I have four of them that I set up at different distances. Making the target a little larger but with no real way to determine how tight my groups are has sped me up substantially.
Recently, I shot a little bullseye. My accuracy has suffered--I won't lie. But it was worth it.
Agreed. Once I got away from target shooting I was suprised how much faster I was and still getting good hits. Now when I target shoot I am much faster and my accuracy hasn't fallen off near as much as I thought it would.
I shoot index cards mostly and then shoot, no-shoot targets.
SWATcop556
11-26-09, 19:00
"Glocks with maritime spring cups are the only guns that can be fired underwater."
The sole reason why you can not purchase the maritime spring cups unless it is on dept letterhead. Stupid.
I used to shoot bullseye targets every time I went to the range. I got to be freaky, attention-grabbing accurate at my static range. But every time we had a tactical match I was SLOW...SLOW!
Later, I bought some little steel spinners that are rifle rated and haven't looked back. I have four of them that I set up at different distances. Making the target a little larger but with no real way to determine how tight my groups are has sped me up substantially.
Recently, I shot a little bullseye. My accuracy has suffered--I won't lie. But it was worth it.
This is deserving of its own thread, imho.
HeadHunter
12-03-09, 18:26
Gun writers know what they're talking about.
- MUST have a thick stiff gunbelt - even if carrying a light polymer framed pistol
- adjustable sights have no place on a combat/defensive sidearm (? never mind decades of good S&W revolver service :rolleyes:
I don't need to carry a flashlight, my pistol has night sights!
Business_Casual
12-04-09, 08:48
"... sell a gun (GASP!)..."
That is usually used in reference to people who only shoot one type of handgun not that they own a single pistol.
I am definitely tired of the old saw "beware the man with one gun...he knows how to use it".
Most of the people I have known with one gun had one gun because they weren't really in to guns, and either inherited it or bought one after reading about a nearby break-in in the paper, then stored it in a closet forever afterward.
I think this is often just a mask for people who can't afford a lot of guns to make themselves feel better. But the fact is, guns are fairly cheap. Burning enough ammo to be proficient is the expensive part! So if all you can afford to own is granddad's Lee Enfield, well, MAYBE you're really good with it...but I doubt it!
variablebinary
12-05-09, 12:26
If I buy a 1911 that makes the fastest shooter and quickest killer since Wyatt Earp
My Glock is harder to break than Wolverine's claws
misanthropist
12-05-09, 13:10
That is usually used in reference to people who only shoot one type of handgun not that they own a single pistol.
If I heard it more often in that context it probably would not bother me. But the context in which I usually hear it is more like what I described.
Maybe that's just me...I would guess if I spent most of my time on M4C that is not the context I would encounter most. But I am more often on Canadian Gun Nutz, which covers everything from break action .410s to the half-dozen KAC rifles that are in our country.
So in addition to a small group of dedicated and skilled shooters, there is a very large number of people who own a couple of old guns and shoot them three times the day before deer season to make sure at least two of the shots are on paper at 25m (the other is a flyer) and they're off to gut shoot a tree with antler-like branches.
So personally I hear it said more by people who haven't got a clue, although I don't doubt that there are some people with a clue who have said it before.
William Shakespeare used the word "methinks", but every time I see it written on the internet I want to throw up. I don't criticize Shakespeare's writing, though...
My Glock is harder to break than Wolverine's claws
ROFL! Never heard that one before, but that's some funny stuff! :D
tracker722
12-09-09, 10:41
***************************
"I only carry when I'm going someplace dangerous."
"I only carry when I'm going someplace dangerous."
Ha... just heard that the other day so I asked him... "What about when dangerous people go somewhere safe? Blank stare.
John_Wayne777
12-09-09, 11:05
"I only carry when I'm going someplace dangerous."
Ooo...that reminds me of one of my favorites:
"I'm not a cop on patrol or anything, so I won't need that much ammo."
Jay Cunningham
12-09-09, 11:09
Right.
"What do you need an extra clip (sic) for? You think you're going to get into a firefight?"
Explanation of magazines being a potential failure mechanism soon follows, followed by "I didn't think of that."
Ha... just heard that the other day so I asked him... "What about when dangerous people go somewhere safe? Blank stare.
That's excellent.
"I dont need to be a better shot...backup will there soon enough" Actually heard that from one of the officers i was training.
WHOA!! That is scary man :O
John_Wayne777
12-09-09, 11:19
Right.
"What do you need an extra clip (sic) for? You think you're going to get into a firefight?"
Explanation of magazines being a potential failure mechanism soon follows, followed by "I didn't think of that."
I've gotten that one too. "You expect to be in a shootout?"
Well, yes. I do. That's why I go through the trouble of carrying the gun. I hope that it won't be necessary to draw the weapon in anger, but I try to remain in a state where I'm ready to do so should the circumstances require it.
Those who have a crystal ball or Miss Cleo on speed dial can do as they wish.
Overall the thought that somehow ordinary joes don't encounter the same breed of criminals that cause police departments to issue high capacity semi-auto pistols, reliably performing JHP ammo, spare magazines, a long gun and body armor to deal with amuses me.
Wow. This last page is worthy of a separate thread on "what Sheep say".
"I dont need to be a better shot...backup will there soon enough" Actually heard that from one of the officers i was training.
Wow...I'd think that mindset has to be almost impossible to break short of learning the hard way, so to speak...
"I only carry when I'm going someplace dangerous."
Me too, and it's dangerous EVERYWHERE.
Business_Casual
12-09-09, 13:47
Wow. This last page is worthy of a separate thread on "what Sheep say".
Or even people who fancy themselves sheepdogs but call their pistols "toys" or otherwise infantilize the issue.
M_P
My father (61 yrs old) tells me that a person that wishes to carry (such as me) should not by default wear his pistol (such as me). He tells me (over and over...) that you should consider where you are going, and if you think that you may actually need to carry the pistol, you should consider why your going there in the first place.
I get this time and time again.... "all you do is carry a gun to scare folks" "You carry a gun to make yourself feel tough" "All you do is try to be the center of attention with your pistol on you" "by carrying a pistol, you are inviting a confrontation"..... Come sit for 2 hours at my parents dinner table and you will about want to vomit at the lack of understanding. I try to argue that bad guys can show up at Burger King and decide to kill 10 or 12 folks just because.... but my folks feel that is insanity and it will never happen. I counter with something like... I agree that it is unlikely that in my lifetime I will ever be confronted with a situation that requires me to touch my pistol in public, but should the unlikely come to pass, I do not wish to be found without the chance to save myself.
Basically, they think I'm nuts and should not be allowed to have firearms because I carry them into public places. Good thing the law disagrees!
misanthropist
12-09-09, 15:40
My father (61 yrs old) tells me that a person that wishes to carry (such as me) should not by default wear his pistol (such as me). He tells me (over and over...) that you should consider where you are going, and if you think that you may actually need to carry the pistol, you should consider why your going there in the first place.
I get this time and time again.... "all you do is carry a gun to scare folks" "You carry a gun to make yourself feel tough" "All you do is try to be the center of attention with your pistol on you" "by carrying a pistol, you are inviting a confrontation"..... Come sit for 2 hours at my parents dinner table and you will about want to vomit at the lack of understanding. I try to argue that bad guys can show up at Burger King and decide to kill 10 or 12 folks just because.... but my folks feel that is insanity and it will never happen. I counter with something like... I agree that it is unlikely that in my lifetime I will ever be confronted with a situation that requires me to touch my pistol in public, but should the unlikely come to pass, I do not wish to be found without the chance to save myself.
Basically, they think I'm nuts and should not be allowed to have firearms because I carry them into public places. Good thing the law disagrees!
From the other end of the spectrum, my dad (a Canadian no less) once commented in regards to firearms in general, and really carry guns in particular, although there is no legal provision for carry in Canada generally...
"You will probably never need to have a gun. But if you DO need a gun, nothing else will do."
That always stuck with me. He's about 70 now and still believes very strongly in the right to carry.
spankaveli
12-09-09, 15:48
I only carry when I go into the bad part of town.
My shots were going to the left/right so I moved the rear sight and they're dead on.
Two to the body, one to the head.
John_Wayne777
12-09-09, 15:48
Basically, they think I'm nuts and should not be allowed to have firearms because I carry them into public places. Good thing the law disagrees!
...probably because they've never encountered someone who genuinely IS nuts who was carrying a gun. When you do come across such an individual there are no polite dinner table discussions about the propriety of it.
There's just noise and pain and that unique scent of blood and gunpowder in the air.
Ignorance is bliss.
My father (61 yrs old) tells me that a person that wishes to carry (such as me) should not by default wear his pistol (such as me). He tells me (over and over...) that you should consider where you are going, and if you think that you may actually need to carry the pistol, you should consider why your going there in the first place.
I get this time and time again.... "all you do is carry a gun to scare folks" "You carry a gun to make yourself feel tough" "All you do is try to be the center of attention with your pistol on you" "by carrying a pistol, you are inviting a confrontation"..... Come sit for 2 hours at my parents dinner table and you will about want to vomit at the lack of understanding. I try to argue that bad guys can show up at Burger King and decide to kill 10 or 12 folks just because.... but my folks feel that is insanity and it will never happen. I counter with something like... I agree that it is unlikely that in my lifetime I will ever be confronted with a situation that requires me to touch my pistol in public, but should the unlikely come to pass, I do not wish to be found without the chance to save myself.
Basically, they think I'm nuts and should not be allowed to have firearms because I carry them into public places. Good thing the law disagrees!
I wouldn't anymore.
On a side note your old man seems to be projecting a bit.
I'm fortunate that my family has no issue with carrying guns (although for the most part they don't do it themselves); I don't breech the issue with my in-laws because there would simply be no point to do so. They are left leaning and don't believe people need guns and there is simply nothing productive that could come from a discussion about carrying guns. Meanwhile I continue to exercise discretion and concealment and we go on about our lives.
"You carry a gun to make yourself feel tough"
This used to really get my goat when someone would say something like this to me. With the first few instances I would reply with a well thought out explanation on why I did, but after seeing that nobody cared, I then switched to "because I'm not stupid". Now, I just say I carry a gun because I have a small dick and I'm paranoid. What more can they say to that?
glock/hk/sig/m&P is junk, get a 1911 :D
"I dont need to be a better shot...backup will be there soon enough" Actually heard that from one of the officers i was training.
so even when the police are there, the police are still minutes away :eek:
though i know the LEO's that post on this site feel differently than your misguided trainee....
"I only carry when I'm going someplace dangerous."
Shit, I'm dangerous.
Therefore, everywhere I go is dangerous.
:p
Jay Cunningham
12-10-09, 06:49
Now, I just say I carry a gun because I have a small dick and I'm paranoid. What more can they say to that?
That's pretty good.
My father (61 yrs old) tells me that a person that wishes to carry (such as me) should not by default wear his pistol (such as me). He tells me (over and over...) that you should consider where you are going, and if you think that you may actually need to carry the pistol, you should consider why your going there in the first place.
I get this time and time again.... "all you do is carry a gun to scare folks" "You carry a gun to make yourself feel tough" "All you do is try to be the center of attention with your pistol on you" "by carrying a pistol, you are inviting a confrontation"..... Come sit for 2 hours at my parents dinner table and you will about want to vomit at the lack of understanding. I try to argue that bad guys can show up at Burger King and decide to kill 10 or 12 folks just because.... but my folks feel that is insanity and it will never happen. I counter with something like... I agree that it is unlikely that in my lifetime I will ever be confronted with a situation that requires me to touch my pistol in public, but should the unlikely come to pass, I do not wish to be found without the chance to save myself.
Basically, they think I'm nuts and should not be allowed to have firearms because I carry them into public places. Good thing the law disagrees!
I like the "why do you carry a gun all the time? What are you afraid of?" because it sets up my reply of "Afraid of? I ain't afraid of shit; I'm the one with the gun!" :D
(not my true feelings on the matter, but it's fun when they look back with :eek: )
I also always liked telling people that don't carry "when you go out to get your mail, it's 100% a matter of luck and someone else's choice as to whether or not you return. I, at least, have some small amount of say in the matter."
My father (61 yrs old) tells me that a person that wishes to carry (such as me) should not by default wear his pistol (such as me). He tells me (over and over...) that you should consider where you are going, and if you think that you may actually need to carry the pistol, you should consider why your going there in the first place.
...
My dad is also 61 yrs old but he carries everywhere he goes. Even in church... and he's the guy behind the pulpit.
How is my gun scaring anyone if they can't see it?
RAM Engineer
12-18-09, 18:39
"blah blah blah GRIP ANGLE blah blah blah." :rolleyes:
misanthropist
12-18-09, 19:36
DEFINITELY sick of "grip angle" and "it fits my hand/doesn't fit my hand so I can/can't shoot it".
Point the gun at the target, line up the sights, squeeze the trigger.
Now I admit some guns are just comfortable and feel great in the hand...but I shoot 1911s and large frame Glocks equally well because I squeeze the trigger when the sights line up on the target I want to shoot, not just point it instinctively at a comfortable angle and make it go bang.
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